Nitin Sawhney's recent live release, OneZero, is astonishing per4mance, recorded straight to vinyl, something that hand't been attempted since the mid-70's according to the press release. The sound is crystal clear. Actually it's probably one of the best sounding live albums I've ever heard: the mix is perfect, the sound is brilliant and the level of playing and musicality is totally amazing! Still, a straight-to-vinyl recording has to be perfect: no mixing and no overdubs are allowed past the prime recording.

Prince has been known to record whole albums in a single day: The War (highly overdubbed and edited), N.E.W.S (slightly overdubbed) and The Undertaker (no overdubs as far as I know but some editing) have all been recorded in a single session, which is already quite an achievement in itself considering the msuciality of these albums. But with Prince always claiming that analog is superior to digital and that his band is the best in the world (whatever its current incarnation), I think he should take the challenge and record a live or studio album in a row, straight to vinyl.

Opinions?

Well, the things you seem to love about that one release are hardly vinyl-related:

Vinyl has nothing to do with the mix, the sound (of the instruments) and the playing; which are all probably the major parts of a record a make up way more than the medium to which the result is recorded.

Prince should record an album.

.

.

databank said:

Nitin Sawhney's recent live release, OneZero, is astonishing per4mance, recorded straight to vinyl, something that hand't been attempted since the mid-70's according to the press release. The sound is crystal clear. Actually it's probably one of the best sounding live albums I've ever heard: the mix is perfect, the sound is brilliant and the level of playing and musicality is totally amazing! Still, a straight-to-vinyl recording has to be perfect: no mixing and no overdubs are allowed past the prime recording.

Prince has been known to record whole albums in a single day: The War (highly overdubbed and edited), N.E.W.S (slightly overdubbed) and The Undertaker (no overdubs as far as I know but some editing) have all been recorded in a single session, which is already quite an achievement in itself considering the msuciality of these albums. But with Prince always claiming that analog is superior to digital and that his band is the best in the world (whatever its current incarnation), I think he should take the challenge and record a live or studio album in a row, straight to vinyl.

Opinions?

You got my vote. Is there a petition to sign?

Seriously though... GREAT idea!!

NouveauDance said:

Prince should record an album.

.

.

databank said:

Nitin Sawhney's recent live release, OneZero, is astonishing per4mance, recorded straight to vinyl, something that hand't been attempted since the mid-70's according to the press release. The sound is crystal clear. Actually it's probably one of the best sounding live albums I've ever heard: the mix is perfect, the sound is brilliant and the level of playing and musicality is totally amazing! Still, a straight-to-vinyl recording has to be perfect: no mixing and no overdubs are allowed past the prime recording.

Prince has been known to record whole albums in a single day: The War (highly overdubbed and edited), N.E.W.S (slightly overdubbed) and The Undertaker (no overdubs as far as I know but some editing) have all been recorded in a single session, which is already quite an achievement in itself considering the msuciality of these albums. But with Prince always claiming that analog is superior to digital and that his band is the best in the world (whatever its current incarnation), I think he should take the challenge and record a live or studio album in a row, straight to vinyl.

Opinions?

These claims are fairly recent. He pretty much switched to digital as soon as digital gear became more commonplance (granted, he was a bit late with his switch to a ProTools recording setup, but I think that was just him trying to save some money by sticking with what he had at Paisley Park already). The keyboards and guitar effects of his choice seem to be still largely digital as far as I can tell.

how about you just buy a trash can made of vinyl .. then you can put his last 20 years strait in it

prince simply isn't worth all that effort .. like vinyl is gonna make poop like "screwdriver" any better

TrevorAyer said:

how about you just buy a trash can made of vinyl .. then you can put his last 20 years strait in it

prince simply isn't worth all that effort .. like vinyl is gonna make poop like "screwdriver" any better

ZING -POW

Well you really told him.

Man what a refreshing and new viewpoint.

Did ya think that up all by yourself?

Must be wearing your big boy pants today.

Dave1992 said:

Well, the things you seem to love about that one release are hardly vinyl-related:

Vinyl has nothing to do with the mix, the sound (of the instruments) and the playing; which are all probably the major parts of a record a make up way more than the medium to which the result is recorded.

Well, in case you don't know live recordings are being recorded on a track by track basis and THEN mixed

TrevorAyer said:

how about you just buy a trash can made of vinyl .. then you can put his last 20 years strait in it

prince simply isn't worth all that effort .. like vinyl is gonna make poop like "screwdriver" any better

That's not the point and you know it. Wanna make a fool of yourself again?

NouveauDance said:

Prince should record an album.

.

.

I'd put it another way: prince should stop sitting on the albums he records

[Edited 11/28/13 10:54am]

thedoorkeeper said:

TrevorAyer said:

how about you just buy a trash can made of vinyl .. then you can put his last 20 years strait in it

prince simply isn't worth all that effort .. like vinyl is gonna make poop like "screwdriver" any better

ZING -POW

Well you really told him.

Man what a refreshing and new viewpoint.

Did ya think that up all by yourself?

Must be wearing your big boy pants today.

Thank u

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

Nitin Sawhney's recent live release, OneZero, is astonishing per4mance, recorded straight to vinyl, something that hand't been attempted since the mid-70's according to the press release. The sound is crystal clear. Actually it's probably one of the best sounding live albums I've ever heard: the mix is perfect, the sound is brilliant and the level of playing and musicality is totally amazing! Still, a straight-to-vinyl recording has to be perfect: no mixing and no overdubs are allowed past the prime recording.

Prince has been known to record whole albums in a single day: The War (highly overdubbed and edited), N.E.W.S (slightly overdubbed) and The Undertaker (no overdubs as far as I know but some editing) have all been recorded in a single session, which is already quite an achievement in itself considering the msuciality of these albums. But with Prince always claiming that analog is superior to digital and that his band is the best in the world (whatever its current incarnation), I think he should take the challenge and record a live or studio album in a row, straight to vinyl.

Opinions?

You got my vote. Is there a petition to sign?

Seriously though... GREAT idea!!

databank said:

Dave1992 said:

Well, the things you seem to love about that one release are hardly vinyl-related:

Vinyl has nothing to do with the mix, the sound (of the instruments) and the playing; which are all probably the major parts of a record a make up way more than the medium to which the result is recorded.

Well, in case you don't know live recordings are being recorded on a track by track basis and THEN mixed

Again, that has nothing to do with vinyl. It's at the mixing stage where you have to get it right. If the mix is shit, it will sound shit on vinyl too. And getting the mix right for a proper studio recording (however, in a live setting!) in order to be able to put it straight to vinyl is nearly impossible by today's standarts. Having no post-recording mix option makes it completely impossible for a perfectionist like Prince to put down a mix at once he might be happy with. What sounds good on headphones when you mix the tracks before you send them to vinyl (or in the room you're recording in) might sound absoutely shit in any other room. Especially the lower frequencies around 200hz are critical. And that takes lots and lots of post-recording mixing to get right, which especially Prince would want to achieve (judging by his last ten albums at least; even "organic-sounding" albums like TRC are mixed, equalized and tweaked to death just to make everything click in every sonic environment).

Dave1992 said:

databank said:

Well, in case you don't know live recordings are being recorded on a track by track basis and THEN mixed

Again, that has nothing to do with vinyl. It's at the mixing stage where you have to get it right. If the mix is shit, it will sound shit on vinyl too. And getting the mix right for a proper studio recording (however, in a live setting!) in order to be able to put it straight to vinyl is nearly impossible by today's standarts. Having no post-recording mix option makes it completely impossible for a perfectionist like Prince to put down a mix at once he might be happy with. What sounds good on headphones when you mix the tracks before you send them to vinyl (or in the room you're recording in) might sound absoutely shit in any other room. Especially the lower frequencies around 200hz are critical. And that takes lots and lots of post-recording mixing to get right, which especially Prince would want to achieve (judging by his last ten albums at least; even "organic-sounding" albums like TRC are mixed, equalized and tweaked to death just to make everything click in every sonic environment).

http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._recording:

In order to make a direct-to-disc recording, musicians would typically play one fifteen minute "live" set in a recording studioper side of LP using professional audio equipment. The recording would be made without the use of multitrack recording, and without overdubs. The performance would have to be carefully engineered, and mixed live in stereophonic sound. During the performance, the analog disc cutting head engages the master lacquer used for pressing LP records and is not stopped until the entire side is complete.

Although the spontaneity of performance is preserved, no overdubbing or editing is possible. It becomes more challenging for the musicians, engineers and producers, whose performances will be captured "warts and all". In the event of aborted sides, expensive lacquers are wasted and cannot be used again. According to Robert Auld of the Audio Engineering Society: "It was a notoriously difficult way to record; the musicians and all concerned had to record a complete Lp side without any serious musical or technical mistakes."^[

Please first go and listen to that album by Nitin Sawhney and come and tell me again that it's impossible by today's standards or for a perfectionnist if you dare. Nitin's band is top notch and whoever ingineered that recording is top notch too. The result is crystal clear and perfectly mixed (more than most traditional live recordings, including Prince's, actually)

[Edited 11/28/13 13:07pm]

databank said:

Dave1992 said:

Again, that has nothing to do with vinyl. It's at the mixing stage where you have to get it right. If the mix is shit, it will sound shit on vinyl too. And getting the mix right for a proper studio recording (however, in a live setting!) in order to be able to put it straight to vinyl is nearly impossible by today's standarts. Having no post-recording mix option makes it completely impossible for a perfectionist like Prince to put down a mix at once he might be happy with. What sounds good on headphones when you mix the tracks before you send them to vinyl (or in the room you're recording in) might sound absoutely shit in any other room. Especially the lower frequencies around 200hz are critical. And that takes lots and lots of post-recording mixing to get right, which especially Prince would want to achieve (judging by his last ten albums at least; even "organic-sounding" albums like TRC are mixed, equalized and tweaked to death just to make everything click in every sonic environment).

http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._recording:

In order to make a direct-to-disc recording, musicians would typically play one fifteen minute "live" set in a recording studioper side of LP using professional audio equipment. The recording would be made without the use of multitrack recording, and without overdubs. The performance would have to be carefully engineered, and mixed live in stereophonic sound. During the performance, the analog disc cutting head engages the master lacquer used for pressing LP records and is not stopped until the entire side is complete.

Although the spontaneity of performance is preserved, no overdubbing or editing is possible. It becomes more challenging for the musicians, engineers and producers, whose performances will be captured "warts and all". In the event of aborted sides, expensive lacquers are wasted and cannot be used again. According to Robert Auld of the Audio Engineering Society: "It was a notoriously difficult way to record; the musicians and all concerned had to record a complete Lp side without any serious musical or technical mistakes."^[

Please first go and listen to that album by Nitin Sawhney and come and tell me again that it's impossible by today's standards or for a perfectionnist if you dare. Nitin's band is top notch and whoever ingineered that recording is top notch too. The result is crystal clear and perfectly mixed (more than most traditional live recordings, including Prince's, actually)

[Edited 11/28/13 13:07pm]

I did listen to it, and some frequencies in bass and lower mid frequency instruments do sound a bit muddy, as you would expect.

The fascination with recording directly to vinyl rather stems from aesthetic viewpoints (which I fully support, by the way). But record that way makes it hardly possible to fully utilize the sonic advantage vinyl brings in today's age.

Back then, when many things weren't possible, vinyl could effectively contribute the most to the sound, because other possibilities were so limited. You could have a shit track on CC, or a shit track on vinyl; and the shit track on vinyl happened to sound better than the shit track on CC. By today's standarts, though, eq-ing and mixing make much more of the difference, and a not perfectly mixed and equalized track on vinyl will sound way more imperfect than a nicely equalized and mixed recording as a WAV or on CD.

thedoorkeeper said:

TrevorAyer said:

how about you just buy a trash can made of vinyl .. then you can put his last 20 years strait in it

prince simply isn't worth all that effort .. like vinyl is gonna make poop like "screwdriver" any better

ZING -POW

Well you really told him.

Man what a refreshing and new viewpoint.

Did ya think that up all by yourself?

Must be wearing your big boy pants today.

first of all .. kiss my ass

secondly .. is your response any more mature?

that was rhetorical .. the answer is no .. asshole

TrevorAyer said:

thedoorkeeper said:

ZING -POW

Well you really told him.

Man what a refreshing and new viewpoint.

Did ya think that up all by yourself?

Must be wearing your big boy pants today.

first of all .. kiss my ass

secondly .. is your response any more mature?

that was rhetorical .. the answer is no .. asshole

Aww I hurt your wittle feelings.

Dave1992 said:

databank said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._recording:

In order to make a direct-to-disc recording, musicians would typically play one fifteen minute "live" set in a recording studioper side of LP using professional audio equipment. The recording would be made without the use of multitrack recording, and without overdubs. The performance would have to be carefully engineered, and mixed live in stereophonic sound. During the performance, the analog disc cutting head engages the master lacquer used for pressing LP records and is not stopped until the entire side is complete.

Although the spontaneity of performance is preserved, no overdubbing or editing is possible. It becomes more challenging for the musicians, engineers and producers, whose performances will be captured "warts and all". In the event of aborted sides, expensive lacquers are wasted and cannot be used again. According to Robert Auld of the Audio Engineering Society: "It was a notoriously difficult way to record; the musicians and all concerned had to record a complete Lp side without any serious musical or technical mistakes."^[

Please first go and listen to that album by Nitin Sawhney and come and tell me again that it's impossible by today's standards or for a perfectionnist if you dare. Nitin's band is top notch and whoever ingineered that recording is top notch too. The result is crystal clear and perfectly mixed (more than most traditional live recordings, including Prince's, actually)

[Edited 11/28/13 13:07pm]

I did listen to it, and some frequencies in bass and lower mid frequency instruments do sound a bit muddy, as you would expect.

The fascination with recording directly to vinyl rather stems from aesthetic viewpoints (which I fully support, by the way). But record that way makes it hardly possible to fully utilize the sonic advantage vinyl brings in today's age.

Back then, when many things weren't possible, vinyl could effectively contribute the most to the sound, because other possibilities were so limited. You could have a shit track on CC, or a shit track on vinyl; and the shit track on vinyl happened to sound better than the shit track on CC. By today's standarts, though, eq-ing and mixing make much more of the difference, and a not perfectly mixed and equalized track on vinyl will sound way more imperfect than a nicely equalized and mixed recording as a WAV or on CD.

Well, u obviously have either better ears or (that one's not difficult) a much better stereo than I do, but u seem to be an engineer or something ain'tcha? 2 me that Nitin album sounds perfect, honest. Anyway I thought of it more as a challenge for Prince than something made to have the most perfect sound. + honestly Prince isn't such a perfectionnist when it comes to engineering, even though he got better at it since the early 90's. The 80's albums were very badly engineered technically speaking (Susan Rogers herself said that, and that the reason was because P was always in a rush to record more and fast, and that can be heard VERY obviously on ATWIAD, for example), and even recently I was always amazed by the fact that N.E.W.S. has... hiss! It's perfectly mixed and engineered if you ask me, it's very clean (at least for my non-pro ears) but it has hiss for chrissakes!!! And a very obvious hiss, u don't need earphones to hear it! So I doubt P would be frightened by the limitations of straight-to-vinyl. Of course he could do a "one take no remixing no overdubs" challenge on tapê or digital just as much, but there's a "hip" added value to doing the shit straight to vinyl.

databank said:

Dave1992 said:

I did listen to it, and some frequencies in bass and lower mid frequency instruments do sound a bit muddy, as you would expect.

The fascination with recording directly to vinyl rather stems from aesthetic viewpoints (which I fully support, by the way). But record that way makes it hardly possible to fully utilize the sonic advantage vinyl brings in today's age.

Back then, when many things weren't possible, vinyl could effectively contribute the most to the sound, because other possibilities were so limited. You could have a shit track on CC, or a shit track on vinyl; and the shit track on vinyl happened to sound better than the shit track on CC. By today's standarts, though, eq-ing and mixing make much more of the difference, and a not perfectly mixed and equalized track on vinyl will sound way more imperfect than a nicely equalized and mixed recording as a WAV or on CD.

Well, u obviously have either better ears or (that one's not difficult) a much better stereo than I do, but u seem to be an engineer or something ain'tcha? 2 me that Nitin album sounds perfect, honest. Anyway I thought of it more as a challenge for Prince than something made to have the most perfect sound. + honestly Prince isn't such a perfectionnist when it comes to engineering, even though he got better at it since the early 90's. The 80's albums were very badly engineered technically speaking (Susan Rogers herself said that, and that the reason was because P was always in a rush to record more and fast, and that can be heard VERY obviously on ATWIAD, for example), and even recently I was always amazed by the fact that N.E.W.S. has... hiss! It's perfectly mixed and engineered if you ask me, it's very clean (at least for my non-pro ears) but it has hiss for chrissakes!!! And a very obvious hiss, u don't need earphones to hear it! So I doubt P would be frightened by the limitations of straight-to-vinyl. Of course he could do a "one take no remixing no overdubs" challenge on tapê or digital just as much, but there's a "hip" added value to doing the shit straight to vinyl.

Nah, no engineer, just a musician with trained ears, I guess...

Prince definitely had a very "sloppy" sound in the 80s, which was part of the appeal to me. Especially Parade. Fantastically sloppy and organic, yet somehow perfect.

As you are saying (and as I tried to point out), this recording straight to vinyl is rather a hipness thing than an exclusively audiophile thing. While vinyl sounds much better than any other medium (in my opinion), recording straight to it has too many limitations.

Let me put it another way: if Prince wanted to record a truly organic and "old-school"-produced semi-live album, where everybody would know what kind of sound to expect, straight to vinyl is a lovely option. But if he wanted to record another kind of straight pop/rock/funk album like his hast 5-6 efforts, it's probably not the way to go. "The Word", for instance, would never be able to have such a fantastic mix if it were recorded straight to vinyl. Know what I mean?

NouveauDance said:

Prince should record an album..

Prince is an old man that apparently has lost the urge to release proper albums as we came to know them.

So why bother saying 'Prince should'?

It doesn't change anything unless you think that mr Prince might read this one day and change his opinion on albums as a direct consequence.

thedoorkeeper said:

TrevorAyer said:

first of all .. kiss my ass

secondly .. is your response any more mature?

that was rhetorical .. the answer is no .. asshole

Aww I hurt your wittle feelings.

what part of kiss my ass did you not understand?

did i hurt ur wittle feelings picking on your hero prince .. are u gonna post your own little "leave britney alone" you tube video too?

udo said:

NouveauDance said:

Prince should record an album..

Prince is an old man that apparently has lost the urge to release proper albums as we came to know them.

So why bother saying 'Prince should'?

It doesn't change anything unless you think that mr Prince might read this one day and change his opinion on albums as a direct consequence.

TrevorAyer said:

thedoorkeeper said:

Aww I hurt your wittle feelings.

what part of kiss my ass did you not understand?

did i hurt ur wittle feelings picking on your hero prince .. are u gonna post your own little "leave britney alone" you tube video too?

Honey you are such a joke.

A sad pathetic joke but still a joke.

NouveauDance said:

Prince should record an album.

.

.

.

Dave1992 is simply saying that recording medium and the mix are two separate aspects of what we hear, along engineering both the recording and the mastering.

Recording to vinyl yields a full, dynamic sonic result, like 2" tape, except that with tape, your mixing options are much better, and usually the way to go is to record to 2" tape and then master digitally, say in ProTools.This was how the album 'The Rainbow Children' was done.

thedoorkeeper said:

TrevorAyer said:

what part of kiss my ass did you not understand?

did i hurt ur wittle feelings picking on your hero prince .. are u gonna post your own little "leave britney alone" you tube video too?

Honey you are such a joke.

A sad pathetic joke but still a joke.

knock knock

.. who's there

thedoorkeeper

... thedoorkeeper who?

exactly

NouveauDance said:

udo said:

Prince is an old man that apparently has lost the urge to release proper albums as we came to know them.

So why bother saying 'Prince should'?

It doesn't change anything unless you think that mr Prince might read this one day and change his opinion on albums as a direct consequence.