<to the tune of Video Killed the Radio Star>

.

This isnt so much another thread of "Tell Us When You Think P Lost It", but more a thread about how I believe P got lazy with his live shows, once he discovered the devils music, SAMPLING.

.

Prince always had great LIVE shows, and relied heavily on having the tightest and best sounding band going around.

Yes, I know he had used sampling throughout the 80's, but it was only on the odd occasion, to set the scene or mood.

And it became more visible during the Lovesexy shows. Alphabet St is a good example.

.

But when 1990 came around, I recall watching the Nude Tour and thinking, there was a fake/bland feeling about these shows, and realised it had a lot to do with the constant sampling throughout the show.

But I accepted it, as it was part of the Batman (Batdance) period, and he was trying out a new "electric" sound/feel which I didnt mind too much.

.

Unfortunately the Diamonds & Pearls tour came soon after. Which, till recently, I believed was his most uninspiring tour ever.

There was sampling all over the place. Heck, it even began with Prince ON TAPE singing the intro to Thunder.

ALL the male backing vocals were P's sampled straight of the original recording which to me sounded awful and pathetic!

Some of the times I even wondered if anyone was playing anything at all! Live For Love is just one of the examples!?

.

But what REALLY tipped me over the edge, was The Beautiful Experience. Mainly the Paisley Park show, Feb 13, 1994 which was broadcasted on the radio, and we all got to hear via bootlegs.

.

Actually I love this show, but the sampling in it is just atrocious!!!!

Days of Wild and Now, might as well have been Prince doing karaoke.

In Days of Wild, when P says "oh oh oh by the way I play guitar"........... Not only can you hear him saying that line on TAPE, but ALSO the guitar solo that comes after it!!!!!

He couldve walked off stage for that part and no one wouldve even noticed it!

.

THIS is when I thought, P's become lazy and is no longer making an effort.

And after hearing his Sampler Set during his last tour, well................. who needs a band!!??

.

One other thing.

.

During this period, I remenber telling myself that it feels like Prince is trying too hard to give us the "perfect" live experience, hence the need to sample his own backing vocals during these shows.

.

Little did he know, that sometimes, it was the imperfections during his live shows that made them so awesome to watch/listen.

.

Lve wise, give me a tone deaf Brown Mark singing 1999 over a recording of Prince's backing melodies.

.

I don't disagree with you but it was what he was into at the time, there are plenty of people on here who love that stuff. I think it stands to him in the long run.

.

Imagine he'd spent the 90's writing lesser versions of his 80's stuff instead of moving on? I'd rather he follow his muse even if it isn't always to my taste.

callimnate said:

<to the tune of Video Killed the Radio Star>

.

This isnt so much another thread of "Tell Us When You Think P Lost It", but more a thread about how I believe P got lazy with his live shows, once he discovered the devils music, SAMPLING.

.

Prince always had great LIVE shows, and relied heavily on having the tightest and best sounding band going around.

Yes, I know he had used sampling throughout the 80's, but it was only on the odd occasion, to set the scene or mood.

And it became more visible during the Lovesexy shows. Alphabet St is a good example.

.

But when 1990 came around, I recall watching the Nude Tour and thinking, there was a fake/bland feeling about these shows, and realised it had a lot to do with the constant sampling throughout the show.

But I accepted it, as it was part of the Batman (Batdance) period, and he was trying out a new "electric" sound/feel which I didnt mind too much.

.

Unfortunately the Diamonds & Pearls tour came soon after. Which, till recently, I believed was his most uninspiring tour ever.

There was sampling all over the place. Heck, it even began with Prince ON TAPE singing the intro to Thunder.

ALL the male backing vocals were P's sampled straight of the original recording which to me sounded awful and pathetic!

Some of the times I even wondered if anyone was playing anything at all! Live For Love is just one of the examples!?

.

But what REALLY tipped me over the edge, was The Beautiful Experience. Mainly the Paisley Park show, Feb 13, 1994 which was broadcasted on the radio, and we all got to hear via bootlegs.

.

Actually I love this show, but the sampling in it is just atrocious!!!!

Days of Wild and Now, might as well have been Prince doing karaoke.

In Days of Wild, when P says "oh oh oh by the way I play guitar"........... Not only can you hear him saying that line on TAPE, but ALSO the guitar solo that comes after it!!!!!

He couldve walked off stage for that part and no one wouldve even noticed it!

.

THIS is when I thought, P's become lazy and is no longer making an effort.

And after hearing his Sampler Set during his last tour, well................. who needs a band!!??

.

What u say is crazy, when these 94 shows happened P's use of samples was one of the most innovative thing ever to happen to live music, I'm still amazed today by what he did back then, and these shows are among my favorites of his whole career. What u don't seem to understand is the difference between playback (I lauch a tape and we sing/play over it) and using samples as an instrument, which is what Tommy and Morris did. Basically they had to handle dozens of samples, that were to be launched at very specific moments, while playing keyboards at the same time. Some samples were sequenced loops, most were handled individually and if they pressed the wrong key at the wrong moment (which they hardly ever did but u can hear on some boots that they were mistakes every once in a while) the song was ruined. And of course all this in a context where the songs were not "static", with a lot of improvisation happening here and there. Technically speaking this was astonishing, probably never done before at this scale, and hardly ever done again ever since. It was MUCH MORE difficult to do it that way than to get rid of these hundreds of samples and playing it old school, THAT would have been the easy thing to do with such a talented band.

And there is NO WAY that P saying "BTW I play guitar" and the solo are prerecorded, that's u having hallucinations

[Edited 9/18/13 4:53am]

As for Alphabet St in 88 or Foverever In My Life in 87, it's got nothing to do with being lazy, Sheila could perfectly have played the drums. The thing is that no matter how u try no real drummer could have emulated the drum programming in Alphabet St, it has too many layers, and as for FIML it could have been done with pads I guess but it would most likely have sounded a bit different. Prince wanted to keep the original spirit of the songs, and this spirit relied heavily on the drum programming, so the logical thing to do was to keep it on stage, there's no shame in doing this every once in a while. With such a high level of musicality (and the level was extremely high in 87, 88 and 94), talking of laziness is nonsense, it's just that sometimes it's better to use samples. I heard a show by Hercules And Love Affair recently and it was a pity that so much of the music was loops and tapes instead of 2 DJ's and 3 vocalists, but on the other hand on one song the singers were doing some vocals sounds that are samples on the album: it was a disaster, it would have been much better to keep the samples!

Actually when I was doing music back in the days I wanted to try and do this: sample my own background vocals and some sounds and launch them at some specific moments. My pal who was handling the machines told me I was crazy, that he was too busy dealing with his own sounds without being able to add my background vocals and shit to the mix, and when I made him listen to the Beautiful Experience show to show him what I had in mind he said these guys from Prince's band were just too good, way above his level. I had to admit that it couldn't be done and I ended up using a harmonizer to multiply my voice and do the background vocals in real time, which didn't sound as good as samples but it was the only way, and also it had me having to handle it and sing at the same time which was fun in rehearsals but somewhat of a hassle while in front of an audience. Now u're gonna ask me "why in the world didn't u take vocalists?". because I didn't WANT to! I wanted that electronic feel to the music and also the sound of one leading singer being the same voice as the background (something that's quite common in the studio, with multiple takes on multiple tracks, see prince but also TTD or Kate Bush or Annie Lennox and countless others) has a very specific sound texture that can't be obtained by using several vocalists, and I wanted that.

So believe me, anyone who's been a musician has to worship Tommy and Morris for what they were doing back then, the guys were KILLERS!

databank said:

callimnate said:

<to the tune of Video Killed the Radio Star>

.

This isnt so much another thread of "Tell Us When You Think P Lost It", but more a thread about how I believe P got lazy with his live shows, once he discovered the devils music, SAMPLING.

.

Prince always had great LIVE shows, and relied heavily on having the tightest and best sounding band going around.

Yes, I know he had used sampling throughout the 80's, but it was only on the odd occasion, to set the scene or mood.

And it became more visible during the Lovesexy shows. Alphabet St is a good example.

.

But when 1990 came around, I recall watching the Nude Tour and thinking, there was a fake/bland feeling about these shows, and realised it had a lot to do with the constant sampling throughout the show.

But I accepted it, as it was part of the Batman (Batdance) period, and he was trying out a new "electric" sound/feel which I didnt mind too much.

.

Unfortunately the Diamonds & Pearls tour came soon after. Which, till recently, I believed was his most uninspiring tour ever.

There was sampling all over the place. Heck, it even began with Prince ON TAPE singing the intro to Thunder.

ALL the male backing vocals were P's sampled straight of the original recording which to me sounded awful and pathetic!

Some of the times I even wondered if anyone was playing anything at all! Live For Love is just one of the examples!?

.

But what REALLY tipped me over the edge, was The Beautiful Experience. Mainly the Paisley Park show, Feb 13, 1994 which was broadcasted on the radio, and we all got to hear via bootlegs.

.

Actually I love this show, but the sampling in it is just atrocious!!!!

Days of Wild and Now, might as well have been Prince doing karaoke.

In Days of Wild, when P says "oh oh oh by the way I play guitar"........... Not only can you hear him saying that line on TAPE, but ALSO the guitar solo that comes after it!!!!!

He couldve walked off stage for that part and no one wouldve even noticed it!

.

THIS is when I thought, P's become lazy and is no longer making an effort.

And after hearing his Sampler Set during his last tour, well................. who needs a band!!??

.

What u say is crazy, when these 94 shows happened P's use of samples was one of the most innovative thing ever to happen to live music, I'm still amazed today by what he did back then, and these shows are among my favorites of his whole career. What u don't seem to understand is the difference between playback (I lauch a tape and we sing/play over it) and using samples as an instrument, which is what Tommy and Morris did. Basically they had to handle dozens of samples, that were to be launched at very specific moments, while playing keyboards at the same time. Some samples were sequenced loops, most were handled individually and if they pressed the wrong key at the wrong moment (which they hardly ever did but u can hear on some boots that they were mistakes every once in a while) the song was ruined. And of course all this in a context where the songs were not "static", with a lot of improvisation happening here and there. Technically speaking this was astonishing, probably never done before at this scale, and hardly ever done again ever since. It was MUCH MORE difficult to do it that way than to get rid of these hundreds of samples and playing it old school, THAT would have been the easy thing to do with such a talented band.

And there is NO WAY that P saying "BTW I play guitar" and the solo are prerecorded, that's u having hallucinations

[Edited 9/18/13 4:53am]

how about the prerecorded solo during "319" at florida?

luvsexy4all said:

databank said:

What u say is crazy, when these 94 shows happened P's use of samples was one of the most innovative thing ever to happen to live music, I'm still amazed today by what he did back then, and these shows are among my favorites of his whole career. What u don't seem to understand is the difference between playback (I lauch a tape and we sing/play over it) and using samples as an instrument, which is what Tommy and Morris did. Basically they had to handle dozens of samples, that were to be launched at very specific moments, while playing keyboards at the same time. Some samples were sequenced loops, most were handled individually and if they pressed the wrong key at the wrong moment (which they hardly ever did but u can hear on some boots that they were mistakes every once in a while) the song was ruined. And of course all this in a context where the songs were not "static", with a lot of improvisation happening here and there. Technically speaking this was astonishing, probably never done before at this scale, and hardly ever done again ever since. It was MUCH MORE difficult to do it that way than to get rid of these hundreds of samples and playing it old school, THAT would have been the easy thing to do with such a talented band.

And there is NO WAY that P saying "BTW I play guitar" and the solo are prerecorded, that's u having hallucinations

[Edited 9/18/13 4:53am]

how about the prerecorded solo during "319" at florida?

I wouldn't b mad at u if u were more specific

I checked and I have a version of 319 (audio only, IDK if there's a video but I think I remember there were pro-shot videos of these shows) in Miami 1994/06/10. Just listened to it and the solos sound so bloody dirty that I have a hard time believing any was prerecorded, but if that's the one could u let me know which solo exactly was prerecorded and how u know it was? Or if not which show u r talking about?

Thx

databank said:

callimnate said:

<to the tune of Video Killed the Radio Star>

.

This isnt so much another thread of "Tell Us When You Think P Lost It", but more a thread about how I believe P got lazy with his live shows, once he discovered the devils music, SAMPLING.

.

Prince always had great LIVE shows, and relied heavily on having the tightest and best sounding band going around.

Yes, I know he had used sampling throughout the 80's, but it was only on the odd occasion, to set the scene or mood.

And it became more visible during the Lovesexy shows. Alphabet St is a good example.

.

But when 1990 came around, I recall watching the Nude Tour and thinking, there was a fake/bland feeling about these shows, and realised it had a lot to do with the constant sampling throughout the show.

But I accepted it, as it was part of the Batman (Batdance) period, and he was trying out a new "electric" sound/feel which I didnt mind too much.

.

Unfortunately the Diamonds & Pearls tour came soon after. Which, till recently, I believed was his most uninspiring tour ever.

There was sampling all over the place. Heck, it even began with Prince ON TAPE singing the intro to Thunder.

ALL the male backing vocals were P's sampled straight of the original recording which to me sounded awful and pathetic!

Some of the times I even wondered if anyone was playing anything at all! Live For Love is just one of the examples!?

.

But what REALLY tipped me over the edge, was The Beautiful Experience. Mainly the Paisley Park show, Feb 13, 1994 which was broadcasted on the radio, and we all got to hear via bootlegs.

.

Actually I love this show, but the sampling in it is just atrocious!!!!

Days of Wild and Now, might as well have been Prince doing karaoke.

In Days of Wild, when P says "oh oh oh by the way I play guitar"........... Not only can you hear him saying that line on TAPE, but ALSO the guitar solo that comes after it!!!!!

He couldve walked off stage for that part and no one wouldve even noticed it!

.

THIS is when I thought, P's become lazy and is no longer making an effort.

And after hearing his Sampler Set during his last tour, well................. who needs a band!!??

.

What u say is crazy, when these 94 shows happened P's use of samples was one of the most innovative thing ever to happen to live music, I'm still amazed today by what he did back then, and these shows are among my favorites of his whole career. What u don't seem to understand is the difference between playback (I lauch a tape and we sing/play over it) and using samples as an instrument, which is what Tommy and Morris did. Basically they had to handle dozens of samples, that were to be launched at very specific moments, while playing keyboards at the same time. Some samples were sequenced loops, most were handled individually and if they pressed the wrong key at the wrong moment (which they hardly ever did but u can hear on some boots that they were mistakes every once in a while) the song was ruined. And of course all this in a context where the songs were not "static", with a lot of improvisation happening here and there. Technically speaking this was astonishing, probably never done before at this scale, and hardly ever done again ever since. It was MUCH MORE difficult to do it that way than to get rid of these hundreds of samples and playing it old school, THAT would have been the easy thing to do with such a talented band.

And there is NO WAY that P saying "BTW I play guitar" and the solo are prerecorded, that's u having hallucinations

[Edited 9/18/13 4:53am]

No hallucinations here.

.

Go back and listen carefully to Days before you reply. If you studied music you would be able to hear quite clearly that there a sample of P saying the line AND playing the solo in the back ground.

He actually kicks in to his (live) solo seconds after the sample.

.

And I can appreciate the technicality and complexity of sampling live, but I just dont get it, or want it.

If i want to see someone to press play, then I'll go to a nightclub and listen to a DJ.

.

callimnate said:

databank said:

What u say is crazy, when these 94 shows happened P's use of samples was one of the most innovative thing ever to happen to live music, I'm still amazed today by what he did back then, and these shows are among my favorites of his whole career. What u don't seem to understand is the difference between playback (I lauch a tape and we sing/play over it) and using samples as an instrument, which is what Tommy and Morris did. Basically they had to handle dozens of samples, that were to be launched at very specific moments, while playing keyboards at the same time. Some samples were sequenced loops, most were handled individually and if they pressed the wrong key at the wrong moment (which they hardly ever did but u can hear on some boots that they were mistakes every once in a while) the song was ruined. And of course all this in a context where the songs were not "static", with a lot of improvisation happening here and there. Technically speaking this was astonishing, probably never done before at this scale, and hardly ever done again ever since. It was MUCH MORE difficult to do it that way than to get rid of these hundreds of samples and playing it old school, THAT would have been the easy thing to do with such a talented band.

And there is NO WAY that P saying "BTW I play guitar" and the solo are prerecorded, that's u having hallucinations

[Edited 9/18/13 4:53am]

No hallucinations here.

.

Go back and listen carefully to Days before you reply. If you studied music you would be able to hear quite clearly that there a sample of P saying the line AND playing the solo in the back ground.

He actually kicks in to his (live) solo seconds after the sample.

.

And I can appreciate the technicality and complexity of sampling live, but I just dont get it, or want it.

If i want to see someone to press play, then I'll go to a nightclub and listen to a DJ.

.

Very odd, I'll check it out cuz I'm more than intrigued. No matter what, even if what u claim is true, laziness is not the reason y P decided to do it this way.

And now suddenly this thread is sliding from "Prince is being lazy using samples" to "I personally don't like samples even if they're technically challenging"... Why didn't u say so at first, it would have saved us a lot of time and it would have been much more honest

Although, in general, samples are not too thrilling at a live concert....Prince is one of the greatest live performers that has walked the earth. If he wants to use samples in concert, so what? It's not like he was being lazy. The era/shows the OP mentioned were awesome shows regardless.

-

In the 90's it was new tech, and Prince was playing around with it in some of the most creative ways possible. It wasn't like a Britney Spears/Madonna/Ashley Simpson scenario, it was more cutting edge than that during The Gold Experience era. Prince was effectively soundboarding/producing his own shows whilst playing.

[Edited 9/19/13 5:26am]

databank said:

luvsexy4all said:

how about the prerecorded solo during "319" at florida?

I wouldn't b mad at u if u were more specific

I checked and I have a version of 319 (audio only, IDK if there's a video but I think I remember there were pro-shot videos of these shows) in Miami 1994/06/10. Just listened to it and the solos sound so bloody dirty that I have a hard time believing any was prerecorded, but if that's the one could u let me know which solo exactly was prerecorded and how u know it was? Or if not which show u r talking about?

Thx

he only did 319 at one show

luvsexy4all said:

databank said:

I wouldn't b mad at u if u were more specific

I checked and I have a version of 319 (audio only, IDK if there's a video but I think I remember there were pro-shot videos of these shows) in Miami 1994/06/10. Just listened to it and the solos sound so bloody dirty that I have a hard time believing any was prerecorded, but if that's the one could u let me know which solo exactly was prerecorded and how u know it was? Or if not which show u r talking about?

Thx

he only did 319 at one show

Yeah but how do u know it was prerecorded?

callimnate said:

databank said:

What u say is crazy, when these 94 shows happened P's use of samples was one of the most innovative thing ever to happen to live music, I'm still amazed today by what he did back then, and these shows are among my favorites of his whole career. What u don't seem to understand is the difference between playback (I lauch a tape and we sing/play over it) and using samples as an instrument, which is what Tommy and Morris did. Basically they had to handle dozens of samples, that were to be launched at very specific moments, while playing keyboards at the same time. Some samples were sequenced loops, most were handled individually and if they pressed the wrong key at the wrong moment (which they hardly ever did but u can hear on some boots that they were mistakes every once in a while) the song was ruined. And of course all this in a context where the songs were not "static", with a lot of improvisation happening here and there. Technically speaking this was astonishing, probably never done before at this scale, and hardly ever done again ever since. It was MUCH MORE difficult to do it that way than to get rid of these hundreds of samples and playing it old school, THAT would have been the easy thing to do with such a talented band.

And there is NO WAY that P saying "BTW I play guitar" and the solo are prerecorded, that's u having hallucinations

[Edited 9/18/13 4:53am]

No hallucinations here.

.

Go back and listen carefully to Days before you reply. If you studied music you would be able to hear quite clearly that there a sample of P saying the line AND playing the solo in the back ground.

He actually kicks in to his (live) solo seconds after the sample.

.

And I can appreciate the technicality and complexity of sampling live, but I just dont get it, or want it.

If i want to see someone to press play, then I'll go to a nightclub and listen to a DJ.

.

I just listened 2 Days Of Wild from the Beautiful Xperience concert AND watched the video.

So...

NO the "Oh oh oh by the way I play guitar" is NOT prerecorded. Well, not completely: it's a multi-layers voice so as for the rest of the tracks the background vocals are sampled but Prince nonetheless says it with his real life over the samples.

NO the guitar solo isn't prerecorded: as u mention when u listen to it, it seems indeed that a guitar solo is prerecorded and that Prince kicks in after a few seconds, and that's a possibility, in which case we are not again talking about Prince prerecording his solo out of laziness but of him being able to add layers in the music, one of which is him playing live. This being said when u watch the video Prince seems to start playing at the same time as what u say is a sample, so I'd tend to opt for an pedal effect that demultiplies his melody, and what u think is the real solo played by Prince is actually a pedal effect playing it on a second track, with a distorded sound (basically exactly the same technics that I was using with my harmonizer and voice, see above). But I'm not a guitar player so we'd need one to confirm whether my theory is good or we're having a sample + real playing.

In both cases ur comparison with a DJ pressing play is gross and totally irrelevent.

callimnate said:

<to the tune of Video Killed the Radio Star>

.

This isnt so much another thread of "Tell Us When You Think P Lost It", but more a thread about how I believe P got lazy with his live shows, once he discovered the devils music, SAMPLING.

.

Prince always had great LIVE shows, and relied heavily on having the tightest and best sounding band going around.

Yes, I know he had used sampling throughout the 80's, but it was only on the odd occasion, to set the scene or mood.

And it became more visible during the Lovesexy shows. Alphabet St is a good example.

.

But when 1990 came around, I recall watching the Nude Tour and thinking, there was a fake/bland feeling about these shows, and realised it had a lot to do with the constant sampling throughout the show.

But I accepted it, as it was part of the Batman (Batdance) period, and he was trying out a new "electric" sound/feel which I didnt mind too much.

.

Unfortunately the Diamonds & Pearls tour came soon after. Which, till recently, I believed was his most uninspiring tour ever.

There was sampling all over the place. Heck, it even began with Prince ON TAPE singing the intro to Thunder.

ALL the male backing vocals were P's sampled straight of the original recording which to me sounded awful and pathetic!

Some of the times I even wondered if anyone was playing anything at all! Live For Love is just one of the examples!?

.

But what REALLY tipped me over the edge, was The Beautiful Experience. Mainly the Paisley Park show, Feb 13, 1994 which was broadcasted on the radio, and we all got to hear via bootlegs.

.

Actually I love this show, but the sampling in it is just atrocious!!!!

Days of Wild and Now, might as well have been Prince doing karaoke.

In Days of Wild, when P says "oh oh oh by the way I play guitar"........... Not only can you hear him saying that line on TAPE, but ALSO the guitar solo that comes after it!!!!!

He couldve walked off stage for that part and no one wouldve even noticed it!

.

THIS is when I thought, P's become lazy and is no longer making an effort.

And after hearing his Sampler Set during his last tour, well................. who needs a band!!??

.

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

[Edited 9/19/13 12:03pm]

databank said:

Actually when I was doing music back in the days I wanted to try and do this: sample my own background vocals and some sounds and launch them at some specific moments. My pal who was handling the machines told me I was crazy, that he was too busy dealing with his own sounds without being able to add my background vocals and shit to the mix, and when I made him listen to the Beautiful Experience show to show him what I had in mind he said these guys from Prince's band were just too good, way above his level. I had to admit that it couldn't be done and I ended up using a harmonizer to multiply my voice and do the background vocals in real time, which didn't sound as good as samples but it was the only way, and also it had me having to handle it and sing at the same time which was fun in rehearsals but somewhat of a hassle while in front of an audience.

I sometimes wonder if Prince fans really not nothing about other musicians.

Oh, and why doesn't Prince do something like this:

skywalker said:

Although, in general, samples are not too thrilling at a live concert....Prince is one of the greatest live performers that has walked the earth. If he wants to use samples in concert, so what? It's not like he was being lazy. The era/shows the OP mentioned were awesome shows regardless.

-

In the 90's it was new tech, and Prince was playing around with it in some of the most creative ways possible. It wasn't like a Britney Spears/Madonna/Ashley Simpson scenario, it was more cutting edge than that during The Gold Experience era. Prince was effectively soundboarding/producing his own shows whilst playing.

[Edited 9/19/13 5:26am]

*

This is dead on, and I'll add the following. Since I have never been a fan of sampling, I was disappointed when he started using it. But, he never stopped singing live, he never stopped playing the guitar live, he never stopped playing the bass live, and he never stopped playing the piano live. So, how can we call someone lazy who still plays two to three instruments during more than half the shows? As for the sampler set, it seems like Prince uses it to create intimacy with just him and the audience to have a "light" or "fun" moment with some hits. Yes, he's playing the DJ, and the joke is that he's playing his songs. But, since the rest of the show is really fine musicianship, the sample set doesn't bother me. And, it's funny watching Prince and the fans have so much fun playing "name that tune," like he is taking them on a stroll down memory lane. And for this year's LOL Tour the sampler set's quick melody of hits allowed for more new and rare tunes to be played by the band. Thus, I like the contrast of a nice rock show bookended by the sampler set.

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

Actually when I was doing music back in the days I wanted to try and do this: sample my own background vocals and some sounds and launch them at some specific moments. My pal who was handling the machines told me I was crazy, that he was too busy dealing with his own sounds without being able to add my background vocals and shit to the mix, and when I made him listen to the Beautiful Experience show to show him what I had in mind he said these guys from Prince's band were just too good, way above his level. I had to admit that it couldn't be done and I ended up using a harmonizer to multiply my voice and do the background vocals in real time, which didn't sound as good as samples but it was the only way, and also it had me having to handle it and sing at the same time which was fun in rehearsals but somewhat of a hassle while in front of an audience.

I sometimes wonder if Prince fans really not nothing about other musicians.

Oh, and why doesn't Prince do something like this:

With more than 4000 albums in my records collection, I think I qualify

But I gotta admit I don't listen to KT and Elvis

databank said:

luvsexy4all said:

he only did 319 at one show

Yeah but how do u know it was prerecorded?

theres 2 different being played simultaneously

luvsexy4all said:

databank said:

Yeah but how do u know it was prerecorded?

theres 2 different being played simultaneously

OK, I listened 2 it, I c what u mean.

Yeah well obviously that's the same thing as above: he wanted to play around the lead melody with another melody, so what, the guy's doing a duet with himself, it's not being lazy or shit

Superconductor said:

Prince is lazy??? You got to be kidding!!! And you feel like that since one of his performances in 1994??? LOL Seriously, sampling and looping are very creative ways of playing music. Why do you think for example Prince's keyboard/synth players have such a big rig on stage?? And given a lot of Prince's music has multiple layers isn't it fantastic that he captures the essence of his songs recorded in a studio with multiple overdubs in a live setting with just a few band members? And that he rearranges his songs for live settings? You have no idea how much work and thought had to go into Prince's big stage shows back then, these were detailed choreographed and rehearsed shows. And don't be fooled by 3EG I bet they rehearsed long hours for weeks and weeks to get the sound right. Prince works incredibly hard and he chooses musicians who are able to recreate the music that is in his head. Also, sampler sets are something completely different. And there is nothing wrong with them either. It's a greates hits or ballads segment where the band can have a break and Prince does his thing alone by playing the essence of some of his more well known songs, or like at the 3EG shows where the end of the concert morphs into a dance party with the band playing over the samples. Many Prince songs have complicated drum programming that cannot be replicated live by just one drummer. E.g. Alphabet Street. Or listen to the beat on Breakfast Can wait.

I agree with you except for the bolded part. What he did live during the Gold/Exodus days was amazing to me. If I could go back in time and see any iteration of Prince and the band live, it would probably be that one.

But as for the sampler set: I'm glad to know that some people like them...But at all the Welcome 2... shows I attended (only a few, to be sure) I heard many people on all sides of me complaining that he kept switching to a new song every time the groove got going. I don't think most people enjoy hearing the beginning chords of When Doves Cry and then a couple bars of Hot Thing, and then the lead line from The Glamorous Life or whatever.

So at the beginning of the sampler set, people were cheering loudly when he started each song because they thought he was going to actually play that song...and that cheering became more and more subdued as it became clear that he wasn't going to play anything other than little teasers.

Yes, I know this topic has been talked to death, but I feel so strongly about it that I have to comment on it. As for the overdubbing he used in the mid-90s, to me that was absolute genius.

theblueangel said:

For those of you trying to catch me on tehnicalities.......... Yes its looping, sampling, overdubs, blah blah.

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At the end of the day, Prince and the band are playing on top of a pre-recorded song, and it's so obvious that in many instances you cant even tell what is live and what isnt. And DOW is prob the worst in Tourography.

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To put it in simple terms....

When P plays Shhh in a show, ALL the backing vocals are pre-recorded.

When P plays Do Me Baby in a show, there was never any of that. All of it was live. Backing vocals was done by the band. And although some of it might've been out of tune, it was live.

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Shhh can STILL sound awesome live WITHOUT the sampling, but P obviously prefered the "pefect sounding" live experience rather than the raw band sound. But to me it sound more like the Plastic Experence, hence my beef and reason for this thread.

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Yeah, I was going to ask:

Define "sampling." Such as using a sampling synth? Such as... you know... many voices on a synth?

misiu said:

Yes, i remember seeing a taped show from 94/95 where they Played days of wild and while prince introduced playing guitar tommy barbarella came with his sampler and to the front of the stage and pretented to play! what A very strange picture!

This is incorrect. Tommy played the solo. The NOTES were sampled, but each note had it's own keyboard key. If Tommy wanted to play something different he could've and it would've had the same sound as the nasty guitar solo because each note of the solo was sampled, not just the entire solo in one key.

One of Prince's engineers said that Prince did this in the studio, too. He would play a guitar solo, SAMPLE IT, then play the keyboard with his solo sounds sampled and double it. It sounded pretty much the same, but the engineer said Prince said it added some subtle depth.

Interesting.

I always gathered that the studio version of "DOW" was specifically recorded for use in the live shows.

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In the version on 'Crytal Ball', you can still hear most of the studio version in the background, especially the, "oh,oh, by the way i play (bass) guitar" followed by a live bass solo over the original guitar solo.

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Other examples worthy of positive notice are, IMHO:

"Somebody's Somebody" and "If I Was Your Girlfriend" from around '96 with their spot-on background samples. Some of those parts seemed to be newly recorded just for that purpose. Sick!

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Oh, and to totally re-invent the drum track to "Alphabet St." for the Lovesexy shows was also brilliant!

Prost!

callimnate said:

For those of you trying to catch me on tehnicalities.......... Yes its looping, sampling, overdubs, blah blah.

.

At the end of the day, Prince and the band are playing on top of a pre-recorded song, and it's so obvious that in many instances you cant even tell what is live and what isnt. And DOW is prob the worst in Tourography.

.

To put it in simple terms....

When P plays Shhh in a show, ALL the backing vocals are pre-recorded.

When P plays Do Me Baby in a show, there was never any of that. All of it was live. Backing vocals was done by the band. And although some of it might've been out of tune, it was live.

.

Shhh can STILL sound awesome live WITHOUT the sampling, but P obviously prefered the "pefect sounding" live experience rather than the raw band sound. But to me it sound more like the Plastic Experence, hence my beef and reason for this thread.

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I'm sorry but the fact that u don't like it is respectable, but it doesn't mean that it's bad in itself.

As for P trying to obtain a "perfect" sound by using samples, I seriously doubt it, the sound he had with the 94-96 NPG was one of the "dirtiest" sounds he ever had, it was obviously meant to sound like a "garage" band as opposed to the very "clean" and sophisticated sound of the 92-93 tours (which themselves contained a lot of samples, btw).

Trying to say that using tapes or samples live is as absurd as when Prince gives us his "real music by real musician" crap. This way of seeing music has been given up decades ago: computers, tapes, machines and samples are being programmed by humans in the end, they're not doing the job instead of musicians, they're just more tools to be used by them. What technology has brought to arts in general, whether we're talking music, books, movies, visual arts, etc. is considerable, but in the end the genius behind it (when there's any) is always the artists' genius.