Author | Message |
Strange choice for 2nd singles from key albums Please note i am no way knocking the songs but in my opinion and collecting and buying them at the time the following albums could have had longer staying power in the charts (especially in the uk) if the right choice of single was released.
1986 Parade 2nd single Mountains (great song) but too much like Kiss failed to hit the top 40, should have been Girls and boys.
1987 Sign o the times 2nd single If i was your girlfriend ( one of his greatest songs but the 7" edit kills it dead) only justed reached the top 20, should have been Housequake or U got the look.
1988 Lovesexy 2nd single Glam slam ( great extended version) just scraped the top 30, should have been Lovesexy (one of the greatest songs ever committed to vinyl).
1989 Batman 2nd single Partyman, should have been trust which is far more commercial to tie in with the film and all the teens that were buying the album.
1990 Graffiti Bridge 2nd single New power generation ( poor choice ) considering it could have been question of u or cant stop.
1991 Diamonds and Pearls 2nd single Cream yes got this right huge worldwide hit.
It is only my opinion but good to here others views. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I'm sorry but I just don't buy the revisionistic history that "Girls & Boys" would've done better. I'm not saying its a weaker or better song than "Mountains," but I can understand perfectly why he went with it insteadof G&B.
Again I can understand why "Glam Slam", even if I would've instead suggested "Anna Stasia" but even that probably would've flopped too. What if "I Wish U Heaven" was the 2nd single, instead of 3rd?
I like "Trust" but that as a single over "Partyman" is nuts. The latter was attached to a memorable scene from that movie, perfectly suiting Nicholson's mayhem at the museum.
As for GB, I always wondered if "Elephants & Flowers" was ever considered for a single release? [Edited 9/20/13 8:57am] | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
accoridng to PrinceVault Tick Tick Bang and The Question of U were considered - I would have gone for Elephants & Flowers too
http://www.princevault.co...Unreleased
off Lovesexy I would have liked Dance On - sort of sign O the timesish
Parade is tough because all the songs are so quirky - I don't think Mountains is anything like Kiss though
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
trust was going to be the first single from the batman album, promos were made (hong Kong) then it was pulled.Tick tick bang was going to be the first release from the album but once again this was changed.Also according to the vault book Prince wanted Glam slam pulled as a single but it was too late and Warners said no.Mountains only got to number 45 in the uk whereas Girls and boys peaked at 11. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Prince 4Ever. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Don't know about the UK (being in the US myself) but here's my take on what you're saying:
Not sure how Mountains is "too much like Kiss"--and I doubt Girls and Boys would have done better on the US pop chart than Mountains did.
Sign o the Times--I'm still amazed Sign was the first single, If I Was Your Girlfriend was lyrically too much for success as a single (that's probably not the only problem--musically it was kind of weird--and, as you say, the edit does it no favors). So the album got a slow start anyway before finally getting around to U Got The Look. I can't say if it should have be UGTL or Housequake. I was in very white small town Missouri--Housequake would never have been on my local radio stations.
Lovesexy--Album just wasn't built with much in the way of singles. After Alphabet St, I'd say he had nothing to release. Great songs--but no singles. As for Lovesexy as a single--kind of like with If I Was Your Girlfriend--what are you going to cut? It's almost 6 minutes long, and seamless. Also, kind of like with If I Was Your Girlfriend--dirty boasting (a la Gett Off) is one thing, but all that spinning from male to female voice and the bit about dripping all over the floor and coming back as a woman? Yeah, that wasn't gonna fly in '88.
Batman--would have loved for Trust to have been a single, and I really like the Extended version--but Partyman does make the most sense, since it was featured in the film.
Graffiti Bridge--N.P.G. was a poor choice--I just don't know what would have been better. Actually, I guess Round and Round was better (and apparently it was released before N.P.G.). I imagine that there was just so much going on, trying to fit Pandemonium's release in, not wanting to have Time tracks compete with each other, the fact that Prince's music on GB wasn't all that hit-ready (I think intentionally).
Diamonds and Pearls--Agreed. But the first single was pretty much a non-starter pop-wise, so Cream was almost (in effect) the first as far as radio was concerned.
This is the way it seemed to me at the time, anyway. Some tracks may have played better (or more) than in my neck of the woods, but most of the time I don't think Prince has all that many single options on most albums. And after the most obvious choice, he's left with a number of good tracks that could go either way when it comes to commercial success. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Beginning with Parade,I began to notice a strange pattern.Prince would choose a very strong first single (which would immediately go Top 10),but then he would follow it up with a questionable second single that would flop on the charts.The momentum would be killed and the album tumbles down the charts.
"Girls And Boys" was the obvious choice for the second single from Parade.It would have followed "Kiss" into the Top 10 with no problem.Instead,he chose "Mountains" which is a good song,but it's not nearly as catchy.
"If I Was Your Girlfriend" is a very good song,but it should never have been released as a single.The masses didn't "get" it.The same goes for "Glam Slam".
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
It would have been easy to create a good single edit of the song "Lovesexy".The only part that would need to be edited is Prince's dirty talk at the end.Cat's lines could have remained intact,since she doesn't really say anything too nasty | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Well from what I saw and heard, Glam Slam completely failed the Top 100 in the USA, but it was a minor hit in the UK and Europe thanks to the tour. It also hit in Australia and New Zealand.
Same with Controversy, Sexuality was a more tongue in cheek song, but if Lets work had dropped second it may have sold. In reality I would have released a dancefloor cut like Lets Work first which hopefully would have at least Top 40ed and then release Controversy as the second single. As great as these songs are, the chart audiences of the day were not really sophisticated enough to get the brilliance of these songs and it was more wise to place out the bump and grind and dancefloor cuts as feelers for the charts. Lure them in with sex and dancing and then lay on the manifesto.
Just my Paisley point
Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
The thing about Parade and Graffiti Bridge is that no second singles could really have been huge successes, and that's because of the movies. They were such undeniable bombs that they left a stink on the whole project. By the time a second single was issued, in the public's eyes, those projects had already tanked. On to the next one... | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Great topic. From Parade to GB, Prince (or WB) seem to botch second singles. The problem was, many of the CDs didn't have an OBVIOUS second single. There can sometimes be big difference between a brilliant song track and a hit single.
With Parade there was not a natural second single. Kiss was an obvious choice for a hit but there are no other hits on the CD. There are many awesome classic tracks but no hits. Mountains was too obscure, AnotherLover just didn't seem to fit what was on the radio at the time. Girls and Boys would not have been a massive hit imo, at least in the US. I love the song but where is the pop friendly hook, what about the song makes anyone think this would have fit on the radio in 1986? Parade did not have any obvious second singles.
Sign had an obvious iron clad second single for US radio and instead the most easily misunderstood sing was released. IIWYG was so far ahead of its time, topic wise, that it could pass itself at warp speed. All 1987 ears could hear was here Prince, who was "obviously gay" was talking about being someone's girlfriend. Who needs to listen to lyrics? Homphobic radio programmers didn't play it and narrow-minded fairweathers didn''t get it. My local radio manager said that the CD was brilliant but there was no way he was going to play that "fag sh@t" on the radio. Welcome to 1987, the world wasn't ready for it and meanwhile U Got the Look was such an obvious second single that not releasing it, and making Sign even bigger than it was, was one of the most boneheaded decisions in Prince's career. You can't criticize someone too much for being brave and challenging, at the time Prince had the power that he could release whatever he wanted and he chose a difficult single. Applaud the bravery, lament the marketing.
Lovesexy, see Parade. Say all you want about this song or that song being released after Lovesexy but every possible second single had a commercial flaw. Dance On, downer topic and musically too challenging. Lovesexy inappropriate content. IWUH great song but only two minutes long. Anna Stesia, topic too deep for the masses. Glam Slam was pretty much it but the album cover keeping the CD out of most stores, and the one track format, pretty much killed the buzz and promotion of Lovesexy by the time Glam Slam was released. So I think it was a combination of an ok single (but a great song) trying to battle against a rapidly declining marketing campaign.
Partyman was an okay second single. I don't think there is any other song that would have done better. Trust, Electric Chair...all would have been minor hits but I tbink the album ebbed and flowed with the movie's success. By the time Batdance released it's funky reign, Batman was heading out of the theaters and the bat t-shirts were going back into the dresser drawer.
Then you have a great seond single with GB, New Power Generation, that had a nice debut in the charts but it took forever to get a video out. I just remember this contributing to the song starting hot and then flaming out. I think NPG was a good choice but the movie left such a stink that the public wasn't really feeling the CD anymore after the film tanked.
Prince got it really, really right with Cream...great pop song, timely strong video, great promotion.
And then after Cream, the new trend began...crappy first single releases. To be continued...
All good things they say never last... | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
It's not really the lyrics, and I don't see how it could be edited--by 2:30, the song goes off into its instrumental section and never really comes back to something that's radio friendly (if it ever is)--and I don't hear a decent fade before the talk, and the talk can't be separated into Cat's and Prince's, since they blur together (or they have no point if you lose that effect).
Nope. Love the track--it would have been a terrible single choice. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Carrying on, Thieves in the Temple was such a great cut, following it up would have been hard from the patchy GB album, I can still see "Can't stop this feeling I got" as a decent second single rather than New Power Generation, which is more a chant than a song. The former has a poppy and upbeat feel. D and P was a good marketing exercise from woe to go, and considering a lot was minimal material it did very well (Although the first 3 singles were excellent quality songs, Cream sounded like a number one hit and that's why it was a number one hit- although I have a bias towards the song as it officially made me a Prince fan!).
Musicology and 3121 had a perfect singles release programme. I am still mystified to this day why "Black Sweat" was not a smash, it is easily one of his most accessible singles in years. The fact it even reached the Top 100 though at least shows the song was not totally ignored. Black sweat is one of my favourite Prince songs, let alone a favourite 2000s song.
After this period I think Prince no longer cared about charts, his music is too good for chart crap now and the average 7 - 15 year old Justin Bieber/Gaga/One Direction and Disney/ idol chart music fan would not get Prince's music of late. Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
this is probably true | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Any song can be edited into a 4-minute radio edit the dirty talk at the end could have been eliminated completely,in which case the song could simply fade out with the guitar solo.Yeah it would have been less interesting (lol),but it would work. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
"Girls And Boys" most certainly would have done well as a single...and would have charted much higher than "Mountains".Our local R&B station played "Girls And Boys" as if it was a single.The track is fun,catchy and danceable....all the ingredients needed for a Top 10 hit in 1986. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
"Partyman" features a kickass funk groove,but I agree,"Trust" might have done better as a single. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
IIWYG is a great song,but a poor choice for a single.I don't know what Prince was thinking There was no way that pop stations were gonna play that song. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
He came to his senses and realized that the title track was the better choice.He even made remixes for it.Such a shame that it was too late."Glam Slam" killed the album's momentum. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Love Symbol is a tough one for me.There are so many great songs on that album,it's hard to pick the singles.The only thing that should have been done differently (IMO) is...the excellent "And God Created Woman" should have been a single instead of "The Morning Papers" (which is just so-so). | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
But by doing all that you wind up with a MUCH less interesting song, and one that's no more radio-friendly than Glam Slam--so what's the point, other than to clutter up my music collection with an edit I'll never actually listen to? Kind of like the Let's Go Crazy edit--except that travesty resulted in a hit song, and a chopped up Lovesexy wouldn't.
In my humble opinion. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
See, now that I'm interested in. Don't want the edit--do want the remixes. There's just no pleasing me. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
And here's why where I live influences everything I say: at no time in my music listening life (well, after I started listening outside of my parent's country-based tastes) have I ever lived where there was a "local R&B station." So I'm always thinking from a pop-radio perspective--and for me the idea of Girls And Boys on the stations I did have access to just isn't believable. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
This is truly the best thread I have seen on this site in years...honest opinions being expressed without the "drama" or disrespect...awesome! | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I'm glad I started this debate as a serious collector it almost seems he intentionally derailed the momentum of the albums by strange 2nd singles. When there were better options. Was this so he could move into his next project. Speaking from the uk all these second singles were top 40 hits except mountains with very little promo or interviews and in some cases no videos . In the U.K. There was a 10 white vinyl and a 12" with poster yet it still failed to chart. If I was your girlfriend was released in the uk with no video yet there were many limited editions you could buy so Warner's did there bit. I think in the uk we were very fortunate to have so many limited edition releases to boost sales. On a final note I stopped at diamonds and pearls and prince hired frank dileo who was Michael Jackson's. Manager and what we got was proper promo videos and a good choice of singles. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I think the intentional sabotage of long range promotion might be part of it too. Good suggestion.
Though weren't quite a few of the first singles supposed to be late additions to their albums? As in, he needed a single (often suggested by someone at Warner), so he made one for an album that was mostly already (in his mind) done--so that really there was only one real potentially successful single (in his mind, and maybe Warners', too--though they'd want it to be different).
I might be remembering this wrong. I'm thinking of at least When Doves Cry and Thieves in the Temple as examples. [Edited 9/21/13 17:15pm] | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Prince for all of his genius could have been all the larger if not for so many miscalculations of what would excite the masses. Or possibly indifference but it does seem like in many cases he was the one pushing the choices. I don't want to change the topic because I agree it was generally the second singles that killed momentum but there are so many, many more decsions out there that could have made platinum sellers into multi-platinum sellers.
To this day, I think there are many P fans out there who still wonder how Take Me With U got picked over Baby I'm a Star but after four hot singles who can quibble. ATWIAD had B-sides (She's Always in My Hair, 17 Days) that would have been monster hits. And beating a dead horse here but Sign O the Times would have sold 5 million instead of 2 had U Got the Look followed right behind the Top 5 title track. And then of course a string of classic albums with no obvious or difficult choices for second singles.
Then we hit the 90s and after Diamonds and Pearls puts Prince firmly back in the spotlight, P passes up the chance to release 7 first (after the Sexy MF teaser) to release My Name is Prince. The song, which I have grown fonder of over the years, hindered the project from the outset but 7 was such a tremendous single that it brought the CD back. The difficult thing is there wasn't a perfect next single to follow. The Continental was discussed from what I recall but instead they went with "Morning Papers" which was both icky (lyrically) and video wise, and I have been wondering this for years, WHAT THE HELL WAS UP WITH THE PLAID. Grunge, really, Mr. Nelson? Would have loved to hear "And God Created Woman" on the radio but generally, you don't find Old Testament retellings (as brilliant as they are) topping the pop charts. So there you go.
The rest of the 90s was one question mark after the other. The Most Beautiful Girl in the World was brilliant, marketing wise, and then the whole Come/Gold WB free-for all and, even though I know I Hate U reached number 11 on the charts (mostly from sales with only a smattering of airplay) it was easily the seventh or so strongest single he could have chosen. But Warners was going to bury Gold Experience regardless so Dolphin, 319, name your pick all would have had weak promotion.
Then you have Emancipation and JEEZUM CROW what in the HELL was going on in the mind of Prince to release Betcha By Golly Wow over, easily, 10 songs that would have been better choices. Skip to 99 and Prince's huge Rave project which is going to make Santana's comeback look like a new Kenny Rogers project is led off by the nice but mid-tempo (and not really catch) TGRES.
As I have followed the man since 1985 as a fan, there are so so many moments where Prince has made me scratch my head and go "Does he really want this project to work or not? But you know what, he's still here, he's considered a legend by his peers, and he has got a place in the Hall of Fame. In the end, he's done a whole lot more right than wrong so it's fun to play "what if?" but that's all.
If anybody can explain why he debuted the "Willing and Able" video during the Super Bowl and then decided to release the brilliant but "Debbie Downer" of a single "Money Don't Matter 2Night" instead I would love to hear it. All good things they say never last... | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I've said this before elsewhere, but why WB/Prince never put out "When You Were Mine" wasn't put out as a single for DIRTY MIND, I'll never understand. Catchy as hell tune that could've gotten mainstream traction. More pop-friendly than "Dirty Mind" (great track mind you).
on PRINCE, Why wasn't "Bambi" a single?
"Tick Tock Bang" would've flopped as a single. I'm sorry but P was right to change his mind there. TWOU as a single is a compelling thought, however.
"Starfish & Coffee" should've been a single for SOTT. Catchy, mainstream friendly melody this side of Paul McCartney that could've attracted good business beyond what his singles usually did. I could see old people, the sort outraged by "Darling Nikki" and Prince's outrageous stuff, be won over by that track.
SoulAlive - Regarding G&B, again its easy to claim that after the fact.
As somebody alluded to, just because a song is great doesn't mean the public will dig it. Even songs that you would think would kick butt in the charts sometimes bafflingly flop. (I'm reminded of David Bowie's immortal "Heroes," which didn't even crack the Top 100 in the U.S.) Sometimes tracks that sound like hits do becomes hits, sometimes they just fall flat. (Hell remember that "1999"'s first release kinda fell flat before WB smartly re-released it after "Little Red Corvette" was a hit.)
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I think that "Private Joy" should have been a single.That song is the highlight of the Controversy album,imo.I also think it would been Prince's breakout pop hit (a whole year before "Little Red Corvette")...it's got an undeniable pop sound that would have crossed over. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |