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Thread started 09/23/13 3:35pm

avasdad

The Symbol Album - released bad single choices

The prince album is not a bad one...I actually enjoyed, but WTH was Prince thinking with releasing Sexy MF and MNIP as singles?!?!? That killed any momentum that album could of had! 7 should had been the 1st single!

WB was one to something when they balked at P wanting to release more music and wouldnt let him.. In 1992 u didnt have the internet to check out music, you had the radio and that was about it... Those 2 singles were horrible choices and didnt have any commercial appeal and prince sales suffered because of it...

It was never the same for P again, i truly believe he sabatoged his career from that point on..

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Reply #1 posted 09/23/13 3:48pm

SquirrelMeat

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Should have gone.......7, The Continental, The Morning Papers, Sexy MF.

.
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Reply #2 posted 09/23/13 5:17pm

SoulAlive

Usually,with any Prince album,I can always pick the songs that I think should have been the singles.But,there are so many potential singles on this album,it's kinda difficult lol

"The Continental" definitely should have been a single.

The excellent "And God Created Woman" should have been a single,instead of "The Morning Papers" (which is a decent,but unremarkable song)

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Reply #3 posted 09/23/13 7:42pm

GottaLetitgo

Sexy MF didn't bother me; it wasn't meant as a true single but as a teaser for the CD. It's not like P thought it would get airplay. It was about selling the $12 VHS and creating some buzz, which worked, but then Prince pulled 7 at the last minute in place of MNIP. Bad call all the way around; the single both sounded derivative of a whole bunch of other songs out at the time and yet odd because Prince wasn't really rapping, he was screaming. And the video, following Diamonds and Peals slick expensive videos looked grimey and cheap. And of course Prince wears the chains over his face the whole video so you have a grainy video with a small shrieking gentleman screaming into a gun-shaped mike. And then (spoiler alert) it's Prince. And why is he setting fire to stuff? And what the hell is Kirstie Alley...okay you get the point. About 10 different miscalculations went into all of this and meanwhile you have this great single in 7 that had to sit on the sidelines waiting for MNIP to slink off the chart.

I guess the Continental would have been a good choice for a single, once again it was slated and then The Morning Papers was chosen. I disagree that "And God Created Woman" would have been a good single; it's a beautiful song but could anyone imagine actually hearing it on the radio? Oh if only Tony M wouldn't have trashed the last minute of "Love 2 the 9s", that might have worked well.

All good things they say never last...
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Reply #4 posted 09/23/13 8:16pm

kevinpnb

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I remember this period, and I disagree that MNIP was the misstep. He had pretty wide radio/tv support on that single. I even remember the dance club I went to playing it regularly alongside the popular "rave" cuts of that time. The Morning Papers was the big mistake as a single choice, I think.. And, acknowledging that I don't have dates in front of me, I wonder if WB tried to stretch out the album's longevity too long, which was a trend at the time (a la Rhythm Nation).
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Reply #5 posted 09/23/13 8:45pm

kewlschool

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Could haves or should haves only counts in horse shoes and grenades. That being said Prince had been moved from the pop promotional to the R&B promotional dept (starting with the symbol album) which meant less money toward promoting Prince projects. With 20/20 hindsight 7 should have been the 2nd single for new album momentum sales, but artistically speaking MNIP makes better sense in the context of the art.

99.9% of everything I say is strictly for my own entertainment
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Reply #6 posted 09/23/13 8:56pm

theblueangel

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To me, Sexy MF was a perfect first single. As GottaLetitGo indicated, the intent here obviously wasn't to get airplay, but rather to create a buzz, which it did quite effectively.

As for My Name is Prince...yes, it got a lot of radio play in my neck of the woods too, but absolutely nobody that I knew liked the song. Of course I liked it, because at that time I liked absolutely anything that Prince put out, but it was universally ridiculed by everyone I knew, even people who liked Prince.

7 should have been the second single for sure...many adamantly anti-Prince friends I've had over the years mention that song as being one that they really dig. And the video was pretty cool, considering. The Morning Papers (although again, *I* like it) was a bizarre choice, and the video was pretty dreadful with Prince wearing plaid (I remember reading several comments at the time about how he was trying to get some of the grunge fans by wearing plaid, and even at the time I thought, "That song is about as far away from grunge as you could possibly get.")

And God Created Woman would not have, in my opinion, charted well. I actually think that Sweet Baby is a delicious song, and could have done well in some areas. And yes, I definitely agree that Continental should have been a single.

No confusion, no tears. No enemies, no fear. No sorrow, no pain. No ball, no chain.

Sex is not love. Love is not sex. Putting words in other people's mouths will only get you elected.

Need more sleep than coke or methamphetamine.
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Reply #7 posted 09/23/13 9:09pm

Adorecream

Agree totally, Sexy MF came too soon after the Diamonds and Pearls hits and too far away from the album. No where on the Sexy MF single cover does it mention an album. Also the song gained a lot of notoriety for the use of the F word, but in reality apart from a catchy groove its a very thin track. Its not surprising that it tanked stateside.


My name is Prince was also a bad choice, it was a bad rap song that symbolised the album, TOO MUCH BLOODY TONY M. The brother can not rap, deal with it, the rapping is slip shod and weighs the song down like a lead ingot on a balloon. The fact it even reached the 30s was possibly because of the good taste left by the D and P singles.


If 7 had been released first, it may have been an even bigger hit, an accessible piece of catchy pop that was funky and also non threatening. As a second single I would have dropped Continental, Love 2 the 9s or even 3 Chains of Gold (Edited of course). And then drop morning papers as the third single (As it was a soppy ballad, its wise to only release after a couple of hits like the case of Diamonds and Pearls being released after Cream - a good move that saw it hit the Top 5).



Overall the album was flawed and much less than D and P, too many of the songs sink under over production and its self indulgence with cream. You can almost see him with a typhoon hairstyle singing in falsetto - "Seeelllllffff Innndduuulllllggeeence" with pictures of bimbos with Egyptian style jewels around with monstrous breasts and wasp waists. Prince was also wasting too much time with marginal quality rappers and bimbos with mini skirts and micro talents. I mean Mayte and Carmen, all boobs and no brains. I mean their IQ would have been in the 70s.

[Edited 9/24/13 21:59pm]

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
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Reply #8 posted 09/23/13 11:44pm

databank

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^ Artistically speaking prince was a much better album than D&P. It's more daring, more complex, more experimental in nature. Commercially speaking it's the opposite of course, D&P was much more accessible.

I don't think Tony's presence on SMF and MNIP had anything to do with their relative lack of success: the general public was into the process of discovering rap at the time and it was finding its way thru every possible kind of music, mostly R&B and new jack swing. Prince fans were picky about Tony but the general public didn't mind, he was just the local guest rapper in the same way there were rap guest stars on MJ's Black Or White and Jam or Bobby Brown's 1992 hit (don't have the title in mind).

As for the choice of singles I think Sexy MF wasn't that bad: people liked it, it was appropriate for a summer release and the profanity created a huge buzz around the song (even people who didn't like it or Prince were speaking about it). And even though I guess the cursing didn't help it being aired/broadcast in the oh-so-conservative USofA, it didn't prevent any airplay in the rest of the world (French radios and MTV Europe were playing it all the goddamn time).0

MNIP is a totally different matter: everyone around me indeed HATED that song and made fun of it. 4 them it was just pretencious and poor taste, and I'm talking about French people, i.e. people who couldn't even understand a word of the lyrics save "MNIP and I am funky" lol, so I can imagine the reactions in the English speaking world. I personally loved and still love the track: I understand where Prince was going and what his point was with that song, and he probably thought its "outragious" content would make even more buzz after Sexy MF's outrage. That was a mistake, because the song wasn't that appealing: it had no melody, and the groove wasn't really a dance-floor thing either.

This being said I don't think there was any "obvious" single on that album: all these songs are a bit wierd in a way or another when u think of it, including The Continental. The Morning Papers was a good choice for Europe I guess, the song at least had a catchy melody. Another song no one ever mentions as a potential single was Blue Light. It's easy going, easy to grasp, it's got a catchy melody, and reggae was very popular among youngs back then (still is, I guess): it could have worked and it would also have given Prince a way back into being considered "normal" after the outrages of SMF and MNIP, something neither TMP (with its anti-press lyrics) not 7 (with its religious content) could achieve.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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Reply #9 posted 09/23/13 11:48pm

novabrkr

"My Name Is Prince" was not any "odder" single release than MJ's "Jam" was at the time. Grimey videos and aggressive songs were in. Melody and sleekness was on its way out then.


It was the obvious single choice then and the video reflected the times as well. I've got 4+ hours of videos taped from MTV from that time on VHS. When I later watched that thing, it was obvious to me that "My Name Is Prince" was so much above most of the other stuff around then it wasn't even funny (and, yeah, I don't consider the track "classic" or anything of the kind).

I think the single choices from the album were fairly obvious if you consider the time frame.

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Reply #10 posted 09/24/13 12:00am

thedance

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I disagree, I love both MNIP and Sexy MF.

Nothing was wrong with those singles.. no no no!

The My Name Is Prince video is hot.. and the Sexy MF video too... and Sexy MF was a hit in Europe,

heart

Prince 4Ever. heart
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Reply #11 posted 09/24/13 2:00am

SoulAlive

I always felt like "My Name Is Prince" was heavily inspired by LL Cool J's "Mama Said Knock You Out",which had been a big hit a year before.

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Reply #12 posted 09/24/13 2:05am

SoulAlive

"Damn U" was one of the singles,but it was mainly promoted to R&B stations.Warners used this same strategy with "Insatiable" from the D&P album.

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Reply #13 posted 09/24/13 3:53am

NouveauDance

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The singles make sense to me, it's just that there were other tracks on there worthy too.

.

MNIP did very well in the UK and is one of those shocker singles Prince does well, the boldness of the title, the image - regardless of intent or content, it worked for that reason.

.

Sexy MF was a great single, and a natural progression of the shock tactics of Gett Off turned up to 11.

.

7 was a no-brainer, Morning Papers, D&P pt.2 I guess - radio-friendly mid-tempo, Damn U was the usual R&B radio pandering, but it's a great track, not a single maybe though.

.

The Continental, Blue Light, Love 2 The 9s, I Wanna Melt With U, The Max all had commercial potential and most of those were considered for singles at one point or another.

.

.

.

.

SoulAlive said:

I always felt like "My Name Is Prince" was heavily inspired by LL Cool J's "Mama Said Knock You Out",which had been a big hit a year before.

Right, it was directly inspired by it, directly. The video to 2 Whom It May Concern he's got the hoodie and the mic just like the LL Cool J video - this is Prince at his most 180 on the whole hip hop thing......

.

.

.

[Edited 9/24/13 3:57am]

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Reply #14 posted 09/24/13 5:56am

brookinz

GottaLetitgo said:

Sexy MF didn't bother me; it wasn't meant as a true single but as a teaser for the CD. It's not like P thought it would get airplay. It was about selling the $12 VHS and creating some buzz, which worked, but then Prince pulled 7 at the last minute in place of MNIP. Bad call all the way around; the single both sounded derivative of a whole bunch of other songs out at the time and yet odd because Prince wasn't really rapping, he was screaming. And the video, following Diamonds and Peals slick expensive videos looked grimey and cheap. And of course Prince wears the chains over his face the whole video so you have a grainy video with a small shrieking gentleman screaming into a gun-shaped mike. And then (spoiler alert) it's Prince. And why is he setting fire to stuff? And what the hell is Kirstie Alley...okay you get the point. About 10 different miscalculations went into all of this and meanwhile you have this great single in 7 that had to sit on the sidelines waiting for MNIP to slink off the chart.

I guess the Continental would have been a good choice for a single, once again it was slated and then The Morning Papers was chosen. I disagree that "And God Created Woman" would have been a good single; it's a beautiful song but could anyone imagine actually hearing it on the radio? Oh if only Tony M wouldn't have trashed the last minute of "Love 2 the 9s", that might have worked well.

That's hilarious, I haven't thought about that video in a long time! At the time, I was perplexed by what he was after there.

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Reply #15 posted 09/24/13 7:08am

vinx98

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I think this is one of the few times that prince got the single release order correct. From memory both Sexy MF and MNIP were hit singles? and really well known songs? Also, wasnt 7 a huge hit in the US?

I think the only ommission is God created woman - if there is a song made for radio airplay it's that one.

I dont agree with everyone else about the Continental, its a great song, but I think it would have been considered too weird for non-Prince fans. The second half (the good part) of the song, would have been cut out as well I bet.

I always wondered whether "Wanna melt with you" would do well as a single - sounds crap now, but at the time sounded really futuristic...

[Edited 9/24/13 7:09am]

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Reply #16 posted 09/24/13 7:23am

RumAndRaisin

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They were big hits in the UK. He was probably focusing more on UK and Europe at the time anyway, thats where he was touring the most and selling the most records

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Reply #17 posted 09/24/13 1:08pm

adamf

Sexy MF and MNIP were both top ten hits in the uk. That was the first prince album since Purple rain to have two top 10 singles in the uk from 1 album. All the others in between except ATWIAD had one.The Continental was going to be released it had remixes ready and was pulled. 7 was a good choice but the morning papers failed to make the Top 40. It had no extended version or new B-sides. So there was nothing new. Also there were no limited edition releases to this record and that was the first time since Pop life in the Uk back in 1985.
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Reply #18 posted 09/24/13 2:36pm

KCOOLMUZIQ

SoulAlive said:

Usually,with any Prince album,I can always pick the songs that I think should have been the singles.But,there are so many potential singles on this album,it's kinda difficult lol

"The Continental" definitely should have been a single.

The excellent "And God Created Woman" should have been a single,instead of "The Morning Papers" (which is a decent,but unremarkable song)

There was a video shot 4 this "MasterPiece". But it was never released! A beautiful dancer I met years ago, said she filmed MANY videos with Prince that was never released....She told me why also.

eye will ALWAYS think of prince like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. eye mean of all people who might of been aliens or angels.if found out that prince wasn't of this earth, eye would not have been that surprised. R.I.P. prince
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Reply #19 posted 09/24/13 3:12pm

teiemka

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

SoulAlive said:

Usually,with any Prince album,I can always pick the songs that I think should have been the singles.But,there are so many potential singles on this album,it's kinda difficult lol

"The Continental" definitely should have been a single.

The excellent "And God Created Woman" should have been a single,instead of "The Morning Papers" (which is a decent,but unremarkable song)

There was a video shot 4 this "MasterPiece". But it was never released! A beautiful dancer I met years ago, said she filmed MANY videos with Prince that was never released....She told me why also.

It has been released on 3 Chains O'Gold video collection, no need to be so "secret squirrel".....

yes, it contains female full frontal nudity.

.

The release of "The Morning Papers" was a major WTF moment for me, though a few years later

"Betcha By Golly Wow" would easily exceed my incredulity, which IMO continues to this day to be

the worst ever single choice in Prince's career.

.

"The Max" could have been a single candidate, and at the time I thought "I wanna melt with U"

may have been in the running, but listening to it now it's a fairly weak track.

.

I do the like the album and to note that this was the first album since the early 80's where singles were released without B-sides of previously unreleased non-album tracks.

I consider "2 Whom It May Concern" a commercial rather than a song.

[Edited 9/24/13 15:28pm]

Prince is a musician not a lifestyle.
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Reply #20 posted 09/24/13 3:40pm

KCOOLMUZIQ

"AndGodCreatedWoman" video was NEVER released... It also was not included on 3 Chains O' Gold..rolleyes

eye will ALWAYS think of prince like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. eye mean of all people who might of been aliens or angels.if found out that prince wasn't of this earth, eye would not have been that surprised. R.I.P. prince
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Reply #21 posted 09/25/13 1:08pm

teiemka

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

"AndGodCreatedWoman" video was NEVER released... It also was not included on 3 Chains O' Gold..rolleyes

Yeah your right, stuffed that up, was convinced it was on there. rolleyes

Prince is a musician not a lifestyle.
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Reply #22 posted 09/26/13 2:47am

kpowers

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SquirrelMeat said:

Should have gone.......7, The Continental, The Morning Papers, Sexy MF.

nod

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Reply #23 posted 09/27/13 1:07pm

LiveToTell86

novabrkr said:

"My Name Is Prince" was not any "odder" single release than MJ's "Jam" was at the time. Grimey videos and aggressive songs were in. Melody and sleekness was on its way out then.

But not only "Jam" sounded fresh, it was not self-celebratory. I don't mind listening to MNIP as the opening track but it really is one of those "I'm the STAR" tracks the public doesn't hold in high regard. On the other hand, both "Sexy MF" and "7" are some of his best singles, regardless that the former was too explicit for a single release.

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Reply #24 posted 09/27/13 7:07pm

errant

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Damn U is a lovely song. There's no universe where it should have been a single.

Sexy MF should have been released closer to the album as a buzz single. MNIP is alright as an announcement/lead single but they were smart to move on to 7 almost immediately.

The Continental should have been a single. the Morning Papers was good, but there should have been one for r&b radio simultaneously.

Actually, that should have been the strategy from the mid-'80s on. Double A-sided singles with a song for pop/rock radio and one for r&b radio at the same time, when there wasn't much chance of crossover potential for some of those songs. And the pre-requisite B-side as well, of course.
"does my cock look fat in these jeans?"
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Reply #25 posted 09/28/13 12:50am

SoulAlive

teiemka said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

"AndGodCreatedWoman" video was NEVER released... It also was not included on 3 Chains O' Gold..rolleyes

Yeah your right, stuffed that up, was convinced it was on there. rolleyes

I remember before this album was released,there was a report that Prince was gonna make a video for every song on the album,and in the final video,he would reveal exactly what the "symbol" means.I guess the 'Three Chains O Gold' video compilation is the end result?

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Reply #26 posted 09/28/13 4:57am

KCOOLMUZIQ

SoulAlive said:

teiemka said:

Yeah your right, stuffed that up, was convinced it was on there. rolleyes

I remember before this album was released,there was a report that Prince was gonna make a video for every song on the album,and in the final video,he would reveal exactly what the "symbol" means.I guess the 'Three Chains O Gold' video compilation is the end result?

I was very disappointed, when Prince didn't release "AndGodCreatedWoman" as a single/video. Especially after seeing clips from it! But I think it had more to do with the beginning of his feud with Warners. Prince seem like to me, he had a lot of control at Warners by being able to pick the singles. I can imagine they feuded over that a lot. In some cases it seemed like he sabotaged his own projects with them.To me the first single should have been 7, then Sexy mf(remember rap was starting to become huge) I think Prince was pressured by wb into adding rap to his muziq more. Maybe the reason he put Tony M up front. Then "The Continental". Then last single "AndGodCreated Woman".

eye will ALWAYS think of prince like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. eye mean of all people who might of been aliens or angels.if found out that prince wasn't of this earth, eye would not have been that surprised. R.I.P. prince
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Reply #27 posted 09/28/13 12:03pm

kpowers

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I really loved that ABC in concert they had for the Symbol Album

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