We all know that Prince is (or can be at least) a Funky MF, especially live, but did Prince really deliver on his "Funk Potential"?

He brought us many funky tunes (songs with funk elements to various degrees), mainly back in the eighties, but he has not made a lot of pure funk tracks. And certainly after the eighties the funk became less and less prominent/urgent.

Personally I love funk music, and I believe Prince hasn't completely delivered on his "Funk Potential". Threfore I would like to see Prince do an all out (Minneapolis) funk album, with really hard hitting funk tunes like Lady Cab Driver, C.O.O.L., Sexy MF, Rock Hard In A Funky Place etc. No watered down mellow sh*t, but real funky funk. An album that would completely deliver on Prince's "Funk Potential", just to show the world that "ain't nobody funky like Prince". And satisfy my hunger for urgent funk music in the process!

If he gives us a bit of funk on record these days it is often a little 30 second vamp at the end of an otherwise not so very funky song, which always makes me think "why not use the funkiness of that vamp troughout the complete song???".

Simply answer:

I can never get enough of the hard funk, but have to say in recent times Lay It Down, especially the extended version, is right up there. Would like more like that for sure. All the examples you give are from 20 or more years ago. He has served up plenty of hard funk since then (Family Name, 3121, Face Down, Come On, F.U.N.K., Bump Squad, etc.). Right now though he seems to be in a more pop-rock phase. Not crazy about the pop but love the hard-edged and funky rock too.

Sure. If he feels like it, why not?

However, it seems unlikely that he will get in the effort of producing a whole album.

What I like about Prince is that he is not confined to one category.

Categorizing a music style, is just a linguistic handy model, that helps peopel to communicate and analyze about it.

But, to me, music is sound, energy, flow, and I love it. I'm not favoring one kind of category.

Music is music.

A bad performed Funk song hurts more than a good poppy funky song.

I'd love it. It's too bad he didn't make good on his intention to release a funk album around the time of Lotusflower, which I believe would've included "Turn Me Loose" and "PFUnk." I'm not sure what else would've been on it, but that's a great start.

funkaholic1972 said:

We all know that Prince is (or can be at least) a Funky MF, especially live, but did Prince really deliver on his "Funk Potential"?

He brought us many funky tunes (songs with funk elements to various degrees), mainly back in the eighties, but he has not made a lot of pure funk tracks. And certainly after the eighties the funk became less and less prominent/urgent.

Personally I love funk music, and I believe Prince hasn't completely delivered on his "Funk Potential". Threfore I would like to see Prince do an all out (Minneapolis) funk album, with really hard hitting funk tunes like Lady Cab Driver, C.O.O.L., Sexy MF, Rock Hard In A Funky Place etc. No watered down mellow sh*t, but real funky funk. An album that would completely deliver on Prince's "Funk Potential", just to show the world that "ain't nobody funky like Prince". And satisfy my hunger for urgent funk music in the process!

*

I guess it depends on how we are rating or judging his funk potential. Probably one of the problems for some of Prince's fans is that Prince, it seems, is unable to do or be anything pure or uncut. Thus, Prince has never seemed to desire to make a "pure" anything record, be it rock, soul, or funk. Of course, Prince's genius is that he blends or amalgamates sounds/ideas better than most, and this is also what he seems to love doing most. So, I guess, for those wanting a purely funk, or soul, or rock album, Prince will never deliver on that potential. But, I don't know if Prince ever made us think that it was ever his desire to create an entire album in just one genre. I would think that if Prince created an entire album in just one genre, I don't know if I would recognize it as a Prince album. I’m not saying that he can't. And, I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be well-done, but I’d be rather surprised if he did.

Can a funkaholic ever be fully satisfied with the amount of funk he hears?

its been awhile....

funkaholic1972 said:

While I agree that a large part of Prince's genius is combining different genres in one song, I feel that the funk is one of his particular strengths. His rhythm guitar, bass playing and drum playing/programming are all very funky often. That is why I feel he has a fantastic funk record in him, if he would go and set his mind to it. Some might argue he has already done that with the Black Album, and yes that is one of my favorite Prince albums, but I think he should do it (at least) one more time. One can only dream...

Exodus

funkaholic1972 said:

While I agree that a large part of Prince's genius is combining different genres in one song, I feel that the funk is one of his particular strengths. His rhythm guitar, bass playing and drum playing/programming are all very funky often. That is why I feel he has a fantastic funk record in him, if he would go and set his mind to it. Some might argue he has already done that with the Black Album, and yes that is one of my favorite Prince albums, but I think he should do it (at least) one more time. One can only dream...

I have to say that Prince's funk for the past 15 or so years has not been very funky - he's been doing these pedestrian James Brown imitation pieces forever and they all kinda suck. He often brags about being funky and all that, and as a guitar player, I have to say that his rhythm playing is frightening, but that doesn't mean his records are going to be and in fact the proof is in the pudding so to speak (Get On The Boat, Musicology, Life O' The Party all come to mind). Material like La La La He He Hee and Housequake were strange and uniquely, and automatically made you make the face! The newer material uses conventional instrumentation, conventional sounds and conventional arrangements, leaving not very much to that unpredictability that he used to so often bring.

I suppose the other thing to consider is that his songs are a lot weaker these days as well - Wonderful Ass and the original We Can Funk are clever and quirky. Get On The Boat and Musicology and Life O' The Party and Dance 4 Me and the rest of that filler is lifeless and lame.

Yes.

One of Prince's funkiest jams is "Hide The Bone".That's exactly the type of hardcore,gritty,nastay funk that I wish he would do more often I think that particular era (1993/1994/1995) was when he was at his funkiest.

Prince is a POP artist, not a FUNK artist. Ultimately, everything he does is a pop song, just various "some other genre-pop" or "pop-some other genre (depending on whether the listener thinks pop dominates) permutations. The only generically "pure" songs he does are pop--everything else is either cut, or as he plays a straighter true-to-the-genre (whether its rock or blues or funk), he becomes more, well, uninspired and by the numbers. Funk is a flavor for him. But you're getting pop, just maybe pop that's "funky."

And that's just the way it is. And that's why people who insist that he play real funk, or real blues, or real jazz (or that he leave their pet genre alone if he won't play real funk, or real blues, or real jazz) keep getting disappointed. He never was a funk artist, or a blues artist, or (ha ha) a jazz artist. He's pop through and through, and he shares pop's generic obsession with synthesizing genres and trends, and pop is the source of almost everything great in his work--even if he won't admit it himself.

Though he came close... Life, it ain't too funky, unless it's got that pop--he's not going deep into anything, without it becoming a by-the-numbers drag, without his pop sensibility to keep it interesting. When he tries to play anything besides his own weird pop songs, he becomes only a skilled musician--but not a brilliant creator.

Heck, I'm almost willing to say he's a bubblegum pop artist--think of the way those "sounds" use to catch your ear, as much as any of the actual tunes. Sure, the gimmicks and tricks are used with catchy melodies and hooks (oh, wait--that's pop) and skillful songwriting and singing and playing, but tiny perfect touches are what made bubblegum work. And sure, he was doing it all himself in the studio--having other people mime on stage or contribute a carbon copy vocal, but how does that really differ from pop producers were doing for blues cover bands to give them their radio-ready single that had nothing to do with their actual style or playing (or most of the album it sat on)? That the people he chose were sometimes skilful musicians, or even creative entities in their own right, doesn't change the fact that when he worked with them, they served as puppets for his productions.

I'm not defending this position against anyone who thinks I'm full of crap. I'm just stating it. But I think it's true. Talk about Prince's "funk potential" misses the boat. Those James Brown impersonations are what you're gonna get, because his funkiness isn't that deep. When he wants to play funk, it's always that or he just gives up and covers somebody (usually something that had Larry on bass originally). Exodus was great fun, but much of it wasn't all that much funk, although clearly he had P-Funk in his head when he was doing it. Oh, it looked like it should be funk, and it kind of felt like it might be funk--but was it really? The only really inspired thing that starts to reach for P-Funk on there was "The Exodus Has Begun" (though "Count the Days" is pleasant--but not funky). How much of the golden era of the NPG was really him, I wonder. If that was one of his funkiest periods, was it him or the people he was around. Because it seemed to leave as soon as that NPG did.

EddieC said:

Prince is a POP artist, not a FUNK artist. Ultimately, everything he does is a pop song, just various "some other genre-pop" or "pop-some other genre (depending on whether the listener thinks pop dominates) permutations. The only generically "pure" songs he does are pop--everything else is either cut, or as he plays a straighter true-to-the-genre (whether its rock or blues or funk), he becomes more, well, uninspired and by the numbers. Funk is a flavor for him. But you're getting pop, just maybe pop that's "funky."

And that's just the way it is. And that's why people who insist that he play real funk, or real blues, or real jazz (or that he leave their pet genre alone if he won't play real funk, or real blues, or real jazz) keep getting disappointed. He never was a funk artist, or a blues artist, or (ha ha) a jazz artist. He's pop through and through, and he shares pop's generic obsession with synthesizing genres and trends, and pop is the source of almost everything great in his work--even if he won't admit it himself.

Though he came close... Life, it ain't too funky, unless it's got that pop--he's not going deep into anything, without it becoming a by-the-numbers drag, without his pop sensibility to keep it interesting. When he tries to play anything besides his own weird pop songs, he becomes only a skilled musician--but not a brilliant creator.

Heck, I'm almost willing to say he's a bubblegum pop artist--think of the way those "sounds" use to catch your ear, as much as any of the actual tunes. Sure, the gimmicks and tricks are used with catchy melodies and hooks (oh, wait--that's pop) and skillful songwriting and singing and playing, but tiny perfect touches are what made bubblegum work. And sure, he was doing it all himself in the studio--having other people mime on stage or contribute a carbon copy vocal, but how does that really differ from pop producers were doing for blues cover bands to give them their radio-ready single that had nothing to do with their actual style or playing (or most of the album it sat on)? That the people he chose were sometimes skilful musicians, or even creative entities in their own right, doesn't change the fact that when he worked with them, they served as puppets for his productions.

I'm not defending this position against anyone who thinks I'm full of crap. I'm just stating it. But I think it's true. Talk about Prince's "funk potential" misses the boat. Those James Brown impersonations are what you're gonna get, because his funkiness isn't that deep. When he wants to play funk, it's always that or he just gives up and covers somebody (usually something that had Larry on bass originally). Exodus was great fun, but much of it wasn't all that much funk, although clearly he had P-Funk in his head when he was doing it. Oh, it looked like it should be funk, and it kind of felt like it might be funk--but was it really? The only really inspired thing that starts to reach for P-Funk on there was "The Exodus Has Begun" (though "Count the Days" is pleasant--but not funky). How much of the golden era of the NPG was really him, I wonder. If that was one of his funkiest periods, was it him or the people he was around. Because it seemed to leave as soon as that NPG did.

This folks is what is more commonly referred to as over-analysis.

Funk was and is a major part of Prince's music... it's a style in which instruments are played. There are certain chord structures and rhythm styles that are considered to be 'funky'. Prince was great at writing funky songs that were accessible by popular audiences.

Prince is an artist who has recorded music in a variety of genres of American popular music - that's the real tragedy here though. For a guy who was so adapt at mixing genres (something that everyone is doing now), it's a shame that he's limited his musical palette to just American music with splashes of Latin, Middle Eastern and South Asian. I would be very interested in hearing Prince go to India for a year or China, and come back with a record made using more of their native instruments. The guy is so talented that I bet it would be fascinating listen but I don't think it would happen considering how sheltered/insular he appears to be.

Whatever

10000Degrees said:

EddieC said:

Prince is a POP artist, not a FUNK artist. Ultimately, everything he does is a pop song, just various "some other genre-pop" or "pop-some other genre (depending on whether the listener thinks pop dominates) permutations. The only generically "pure" songs he does are pop--everything else is either cut, or as he plays a straighter true-to-the-genre (whether its rock or blues or funk), he becomes more, well, uninspired and by the numbers. Funk is a flavor for him. But you're getting pop, just maybe pop that's "funky."

And that's just the way it is. And that's why people who insist that he play real funk, or real blues, or real jazz (or that he leave their pet genre alone if he won't play real funk, or real blues, or real jazz) keep getting disappointed. He never was a funk artist, or a blues artist, or (ha ha) a jazz artist. He's pop through and through, and he shares pop's generic obsession with synthesizing genres and trends, and pop is the source of almost everything great in his work--even if he won't admit it himself.

Though he came close... Life, it ain't too funky, unless it's got that pop--he's not going deep into anything, without it becoming a by-the-numbers drag, without his pop sensibility to keep it interesting. When he tries to play anything besides his own weird pop songs, he becomes only a skilled musician--but not a brilliant creator.

Heck, I'm almost willing to say he's a bubblegum pop artist--think of the way those "sounds" use to catch your ear, as much as any of the actual tunes. Sure, the gimmicks and tricks are used with catchy melodies and hooks (oh, wait--that's pop) and skillful songwriting and singing and playing, but tiny perfect touches are what made bubblegum work. And sure, he was doing it all himself in the studio--having other people mime on stage or contribute a carbon copy vocal, but how does that really differ from pop producers were doing for blues cover bands to give them their radio-ready single that had nothing to do with their actual style or playing (or most of the album it sat on)? That the people he chose were sometimes skilful musicians, or even creative entities in their own right, doesn't change the fact that when he worked with them, they served as puppets for his productions.

I'm not defending this position against anyone who thinks I'm full of crap. I'm just stating it. But I think it's true. Talk about Prince's "funk potential" misses the boat. Those James Brown impersonations are what you're gonna get, because his funkiness isn't that deep. When he wants to play funk, it's always that or he just gives up and covers somebody (usually something that had Larry on bass originally). Exodus was great fun, but much of it wasn't all that much funk, although clearly he had P-Funk in his head when he was doing it. Oh, it looked like it should be funk, and it kind of felt like it might be funk--but was it really? The only really inspired thing that starts to reach for P-Funk on there was "The Exodus Has Begun" (though "Count the Days" is pleasant--but not funky). How much of the golden era of the NPG was really him, I wonder. If that was one of his funkiest periods, was it him or the people he was around. Because it seemed to leave as soon as that NPG did.

This folks is what is more commonly referred to as over-analysis.

Funk was and is a major part of Prince's music... it's a style in which instruments are played. There are certain chord structures and rhythm styles that are considered to be 'funky'. Prince was great at writing funky songs that were accessible by popular audiences.

Prince is an artist who has recorded music in a variety of genres of American popular music - that's the real tragedy here though. For a guy who was so adapt at mixing genres (something that everyone is doing now), it's a shame that he's limited his musical palette to just American music with splashes of Latin, Middle Eastern and South Asian. I would be very interested in hearing Prince go to India for a year or China, and come back with a record made using more of their native instruments. The guy is so talented that I bet it would be fascinating listen but I don't think it would happen considering how sheltered/insular he appears to be.

Whatever

Gotta disagree--I think it's circular reasoning and poorly worded babbling at least partially to be blamed on lack of sleep. But only partially. If you wanna see over-analysis, I've contributed some much more egregious examples elsewhere on the org.

What you suggest might be interesting--but I doubt he'd be able to do much with a new music at this point. He's been writing, as you say, with a musical palette limited to "just American music with splashes of Latin, Middle Eastern and South Asian" (and those splashes rarely go beyond the sort of touches familiar from American pop music anyway--I doubt he's really gone to the original sources to learn what he brings from those, except maybe whatever music his first wife might have exposed him to).

And probably it would just add another group of people to feel unimpressed by his diletanttism. The only way it might work, really, is if he managed to find performers who he clicked with and he came into their world as an honest humble student willing to admit he doesn't know crap about what they're doing and started over--as he originally did as a child and young performer in his earliest palette-forming years. A true collaborative enterprise might yield something interesting.

But I think you're right--it's not gonna happen.

HardcoreJollies said:

I can never get enough of the hard funk, but have to say in recent times Lay It Down, especially the extended version, is right up there. Would like more like that for sure. All the examples you give are from 20 or more years ago. He has served up plenty of hard funk since then (Family Name, 3121, Face Down, Come On, F.U.N.K., Bump Squad, etc.). Right now though he seems to be in a more pop-rock phase. Not crazy about the pop but love the hard-edged and funky rock too.

That is right indeed, those are good Prince funk tunes that are not so old...

Graycap23 said:

funkaholic1972 said:

While I agree that a large part of Prince's genius is combining different genres in one song, I feel that the funk is one of his particular strengths. His rhythm guitar, bass playing and drum playing/programming are all very funky often. That is why I feel he has a fantastic funk record in him, if he would go and set his mind to it. Some might argue he has already done that with the Black Album, and yes that is one of my favorite Prince albums, but I think he should do it (at least) one more time. One can only dream...

Exodus

Good call, that was definately an album heavy on the funk, although perhaps more funky than real uncut funk...

[Edited 8/22/13 2:19am]

10000Degrees said:

funkaholic1972 said:

While I agree that a large part of Prince's genius is combining different genres in one song, I feel that the funk is one of his particular strengths. His rhythm guitar, bass playing and drum playing/programming are all very funky often. That is why I feel he has a fantastic funk record in him, if he would go and set his mind to it. Some might argue he has already done that with the Black Album, and yes that is one of my favorite Prince albums, but I think he should do it (at least) one more time. One can only dream...

I have to say that Prince's funk for the past 15 or so years has not been very funky - he's been doing these pedestrian James Brown imitation pieces forever and they all kinda suck. He often brags about being funky and all that, and as a guitar player, I have to say that his rhythm playing is frightening, but that doesn't mean his records are going to be and in fact the proof is in the pudding so to speak (Get On The Boat, Musicology, Life O' The Party all come to mind). Material like La La La He He Hee and Housequake were strange and uniquely, and automatically made you make the face! The newer material uses conventional instrumentation, conventional sounds and conventional arrangements, leaving not very much to that unpredictability that he used to so often bring.

I suppose the other thing to consider is that his songs are a lot weaker these days as well - Wonderful Ass and the original We Can Funk are clever and quirky. Get On The Boat and Musicology and Life O' The Party and Dance 4 Me and the rest of that filler is lifeless and lame.

I was discussing this with my mate yesterday. Our theory was that back in the eighties (before Paisley Park studios) Prince would start a new song with an 8 minute drummachine beat as the base for a new song, and would start playing and filling out those 8 minutes with a lot of jamming and freaky over the top stuff. Later on (when he started using sequencing software) he probably started to use more traditional arranging methods, with the use of copy/paste functions to create a song structure instead of just 8 minutes playing and jamming on each instrument and then -later on- create the right arrangement out of that.

I think that had a lot to do with Prince's music losing the adventurous feel. Also I think starting in the nineties (or perhaps as soon as Batman) he started to deliberately "dumb down" his music trying to secure new Top 40 hits, and his music became less interesting as a result of that.

SoulAlive said:

One of Prince's funkiest jams is "Hide The Bone".That's exactly the type of hardcore,gritty,nastay funk that I wish he would do more often I think that particular era (1993/1994/1995) was when he was at his funkiest.

Disagree. It was the 80s once again!

EddieC said:

Prince is a POP artist, not a FUNK artist.

Ohh lawrd.............

funkomatic said:

why yes, i believe he did deliver on his funk potential

RodeoSchro said:

Graycap23 said:

EddieC said:

Prince is a POP artist, not a FUNK artist.

Ohh lawrd.............

he's all that and more

funkomatic said:

^I'm not a big fan of the NPG. The problem of the old and new NPG was and still is their repertoire. If you can't call any convincing new funk material your own, you can play as tight as you want to, things are what they are.

[Edited 8/22/13 8:59am]

As far as the topic is concerned: No, I don't think Prince delivered. He should have created a funk album with at least 8 killer funk tracks. He came close in 1986 when compiling the Camille album.