It just occurred to me, as I still enjoy listening to Prince's journey in LARGE part due to the sterling conservation and curating efforts of a small but committed revolving door of niche fans (bootleggers) who have it would appear made almost every effort to do the ONE thing Prince has, and continues to, refuse to do, which is to restore his musical legacy in a manner which it deserves.

If, just for a moment, we forget ANY offical remastering, box sets, live concerts, special edition releases, from a Prince-endorsed source, the fact is I think I have almost EVERYTHING that I could possibly want (and more) from and by unofficial means i.e. by fans (bootleggers) who have made the painstaking efforts and products to catalogue each and every single "available" studio outtake, live concert, and special unreleased project that Prince has worked on.

Of course, I have no doubt that Prince himself is sitting atop a veritable mountain of all of this and more, but the fact remains that his past behaviour (a good predictor of future behaviour) clearly and undeniably demonstrates that he does not see the value of conserving or curating his musical legacy (for public consumption), so for that reason alone...THANK YOU TO THE BOOTLEGGERS.

Bootlegs for days, and long may it continue. If it wasn't for their efforts, I now know my appreciation of all that is Prince would be nowhere near what it actually is, based on Prince's official releases. Of course, I know there is a valid argument to state that Prince has potentially lost monies afforded to him because, ultimately, it is his work. But, on the other side of the debate, is the fact that he doesn't make the effort (and therefore do the work) to conserve or curate his voluminous work, again for public consumption, so it is effectively "lost". That significant work is then consigned to an almost unknown aspect of his history, which I think is a great shame as I think it's there that his "real" work in progress actually resides and for a historian, it is there behind closed doors that a more authentic analysis can be made of his prodigious talent. It is, of course, his right not to do so, to close the curtain upon his "real" creative mind at work. But, as with most of art and economics, the market dictates demand and supply, and a small (but significant) market clearly demands a conservation and curating effort with regards to Prince's legacy.

Lest we also forget, much as anyone may have spent monies on bootlegs in the past, with a little effort nowadays the entire legacy is "virtually" all free, again thanks to the fans (bootleggers).

[Edited 8/10/13 6:01am]

Se7en said:

Sign "O" The Times is my favorite Prince album. I've purchased it on cassette twice and CD once, as well as all of the 12" vinyl and cassette singles. In addition, I've bought the concert film on VHS and DVD. What could make it better? Bootlegs. 4 Those Of U On Valium, Now's The Time, Box O Chocolates, and parts of The Work from this era only ADD to my enjoyment of SOTT. I know there are more SOTT boots out there, but honestly I'm content right now. If Prince released this material on his own, I'd be there with my cash to buy it officially.

Excellent additions, Sa7en, which really help to flesh out the creative process during that era. I would also suggest The Fine Line Cafe live recordings as well as the New Years Eve show featuring Miles Davis on DVD as Prince is SMOKING hot during that entire performance, and especially If I Was Your Girlfriend (which I personally find to be THE definitive live showcasing of that song; he was eerily and spookily haunting with that performance).

It's not just unreleased material that bootleggers preserve, but also official material that is only officially available to those tuned in to the right online source at the right time.

If it were not for the bootleggers, even those of us that are obsessed enough to buy everything and come here regularly looking for info would miss alot of the livestreams. Thankfully these super fans are there to fill the gaps for the rest of us.

So, I second this:

"THANK YOU TO THE BOOTLEGGERS | Conserving and curating Prince's legacy..."

Much appreciated!!

djThunderfunk said:

It's not just unreleased material that bootleggers preserve, but also official material that is only officially available to those tuned in to the right online source at the right time.

If it were not for the bootleggers, even those of us that are obsessed enough to buy everything and come here regularly looking for info would miss alot of the livestreams. Thankfully these super fans are there to fill the gaps for the rest of us.

So, I second this:

"THANK YOU TO THE BOOTLEGGERS | Conserving and curating Prince's legacy..."

Much appreciated!!

Great point. I totally forgot to mention it, but I totally agree.

100% agreement. I'd love to give Prince my money, but he won't offer the material and the bootleggers will. It's a no-brainer.

thank you! Mr. Bootlegger.

I'm 100% thankful for bootlegs

And I add my "aye" to all above.

He could have done it (go through the vaults, make new material more readily available), but hasn't. He should do it, but almost certainly won't. They do do it (at risk to themselves, and, in the case of fan releases, for no reward but a "Thanks")--so "Thanks" to them.

Yes it's funny it worked out that way. Funny to think that it has been the most "honest" method to conserve and curate his legacy. Who knows what crazy "Guido Shot First" George Lucas version of reality we would have had left to Prince's own devices. At least Lucas finally had a change of heart and left his legacy to someone who gets it and could fully nurture it.

Thank god for the Prince bootleggers. They have done a great service to music.

V10LETBLUES said:

Yes it's funny it worked out that way. Funny to think that it has been the most "honest" method to conserve and curate his legacy. Who knows what crazy "Guido Shot First" George Lucas version of reality we would have had left to Prince's own devices. At least Lucas finally had a change of heart and left his legacy to someone who gets it and could fully nurture it.

Thank god for the Prince bootleggers. They have done a great service to music.

Wait--are you saying Prince should sell to Disney?

EddieC said:

Violet, do you think they will perhaps preseve the Org, too, with everyone's comments?

V10LETBLUES said:

Yes it's funny it worked out that way. Funny to think that it has been the most "honest" method to conserve and curate his legacy. Who knows what crazy "Guido Shot First" George Lucas version of reality we would have had left to Prince's own devices. At least Lucas finally had a change of heart and left his legacy to someone who gets it and could fully nurture it.

Thank god for the Prince bootleggers. They have done a great service to music.

You make a great point here, V10LET.

SpiritOtter said:

Honestly, I don't think Prince could sell enough unreleased material to make it worth his while.

How many copies of "Moonbeam Levels" could he sell? One thousand? Five thousand? I'd be surprised if the number was as high as 5,000. So clearly, re-mastering "Moonbeam Levels" wouldn't be worth his time financially.

Same with a collection of outtakes. Go check and see what "Crystal Ball" sold, and then multiply that number by, say, 20%. That MAY be what a CD/collection of outtakes would sell. Ditto for past live performances. I'm not a professional engineer, but I doubt Prince can just take the files he has, make a bunch of copies of them, and then put them out for sale. I'd bet there's remastering, overdubbing, clean-up, etc. that has to be done, and isn't cheap.

So I guess in a round-about way, SpiritOtter makes very valid points.

V10LETBLUES said:

EddieC said:

Wait--are you saying Prince should sell to Disney?

eventually a major studio will make a biopic introducing him to a new audience, there should be an infrastructure in place to handle rereleases, memorabilia etc and do it right. One day Prince's stature will be worth more than anyone but the Beatles.

Who's to say Prince or his estate will block a biopic about him? And even if they did make one, it wouldn't surprise me that in his will or someone representing his estate will make sure that his music will not be licensed for the film.

RodeoSchro said:

Honestly, I don't think Prince could sell enough unreleased material to make it worth his while.

How many copies of "Moonbeam Levels" could he sell? One thousand? Five thousand? I'd be surprised if the number was as high as 5,000. So clearly, re-mastering "Moonbeam Levels" wouldn't be worth his time financially.

Same with a collection of outtakes. Go check and see what "Crystal Ball" sold, and then multiply that number by, say, 20%. That MAY be what a CD/collection of outtakes would sell. Ditto for past live performances. I'm not a professional engineer, but I doubt Prince can just take the files he has, make a bunch of copies of them, and then put them out for sale. I'd bet there's remastering, overdubbing, clean-up, etc. that has to be done, and isn't cheap.

So I guess in a round-about way, SpiritOtter makes very valid points.

While I'm sure he wouldn't rake in tons of money from old tracks, would it really be much less than new stuff? How many copies of these 3rd Eye tracks has he sold? Even among the hardcore, lots of people are passing them up (myself not included)--lots of people who say they'll pay for old material (when it's all hypothetical). Crystal Ball might give some idea of what would happen, but consider that it's marketing was kind of confused, sold by order first, then (if I remember correctly) not given a real push when it was dropped in retail. And it avoided for the most part the "classic" era. If Prince did the sort of re-issue or special retrospective type of collections that other people did, they might turn out differently than Crystal Ball, which honestly was over half a catch-all of stuff from the last 5 years that he just didn't release.

Is it markedly more expensive to fix the old than to record new? I would doubt that it is, but I have no real knowledge. But I doubt it would lose money, it would probably make as much as anything he's doing with studio work now, and might help build fan support, if that matters at all--with I believe fairly little effort on his part. Heck, he could go the Zappa route and just sell the existent boots--admittedly, those were live, and I'd guess Prince has equally good or better copies of what's out there (but Zappa probably had better tapes of those shows too). I don't know what effect that would have, but I halfway expected it back when the camp called for people to send in their boots.

V10LETBLUES said:

EddieC said:

Wait--are you saying Prince should sell to Disney?

eventually a major studio will make a biopic introducing him to a new audience, there should be an infrastructure in place to handle rereleases, memorabilia etc and do it right. One day Prince's stature will be worth more than anyone but the Beatles.

There's no real story, is there? He had early success, no real struggles with career or personal issues, no real turning point or real conversion to serve as a climax. Not much drama, mostly just focussed working, recording and playing. He lost a child, but apparently it just resulted in burrowing back into work and sealing himself off, a religious conversion that doesn't seem to have resulted in much but some cleaning up of language, a gradual move to an elder, legendary status type career, but no longer an innovative young iconoclast--if he'd died young, there might have been a story arc.

I just don't see it. I hope something is done to help his work be appreciated for its full remarkable breadth--but I just can't really imagine a compelling film being made out of his life. Unless there's a whole lot else there that we just don't really know about.

SpiritOtter said:

It just occurred to me, as I still enjoy listening to Prince's journey in LARGE part due to the sterling conservation and curating efforts of a small but committed revolving door of niche fans (bootleggers) who have it would appear made almost every effort to do the ONE thing Prince has, and continues to, refuse to do, which is to restore his musical legacy in a manner which it deserves.

If, just for a moment, we forget ANY offical remastering, box sets, live concerts, special edition releases, from a Prince-endorsed source, the fact is I think I have almost EVERYTHING that I could possibly want (and more) from and by unofficial means i.e. by fans (bootleggers) who have made the painstaking efforts and products to catalogue each and every single "available" studio outtake, live concert, and special unreleased project that Prince has worked on.

Of course, I have no doubt that Prince himself is sitting atop a veritable mountain of all of this and more, but the fact remains that his past behaviour (a good predictor of future behaviour) clearly and undeniably demonstrates that he does not see the value of conserving or curating his musical legacy (for public consumption), so for that reason alone...THANK YOU TO THE BOOTLEGGERS.

Bootlegs for days, and long may it continue. If it wasn't for their efforts, I now know my appreciation of all that is Prince would be nowhere near what it actually is, based on Prince's official releases. Of course, I know there is a valid argument to state that Prince has potentially lost monies afforded to him because, ultimately, it is his work. But, on the other side of the debate, is the fact that he doesn't make the effort (and therefore do the work) to conserve or curate his voluminous work, again for public consumption, so it is effectively "lost". That significant work is then consigned to an almost unknown aspect of his history, which I think is a great shame as I think it's there that his "real" work in progress actually resides and for a historian, it is there behind closed doors that a more authentic analysis can be made of his prodigious talent. It is, of course, his right not to do so, to close the curtain upon his "real" creative mind at work. But, as with most of art and economics, the market dictates demand and supply, and a small (but significant) market clearly demands a conservation and curating effort with regards to Prince's legacy.

Lest we also forget, much as anyone may have spent monies on bootlegs in the past, with a little effort nowadays the entire legacy is "virtually" all free, again thanks to the fans (bootleggers).

[Edited 8/10/13 6:01am]

Wow, you put it down.

EddieC said:

V10LETBLUES said:

EddieC said: eventually a major studio will make a biopic introducing him to a new audience, there should be an infrastructure in place to handle rereleases, memorabilia etc and do it right. One day Prince's stature will be worth more than anyone but the Beatles.

There's no real story, is there? He had early success, no real struggles with career or personal issues, no real turning point or real conversion to serve as a climax. Not much drama, mostly just focussed working, recording and playing. He lost a child, but apparently it just resulted in burrowing back into work and sealing himself off, a religious conversion that doesn't seem to have resulted in much but some cleaning up of language, a gradual move to an elder, legendary status type career, but no longer an innovative young iconoclast--if he'd died young, there might have been a story arc.

I just don't see it. I hope something is done to help his work be appreciated for its full remarkable breadth--but I just can't really imagine a compelling film being made out of his life. Unless there's a whole lot else there that we just don't really know about.

If a person couldn't find something interesting from Princes life for a film then,,,, well there was Purple Rain.. O, I have an idea for 1, it could be called, 'To All the ladies Prince loved Before'. Talk about riveting!

Songs like "Gotta Shake This Feeling Baby" from Neon Rendezvous . . . to Prince, this may have just been a throwaway, but to us, it's magic. Hearing Purple Rain music with new lyrics, awesome! Does it make me appreciate the real Purple Rain more? No way.

.

Another thing about his concert boots: Prince does hundreds of performances a year. Not all of them are public, and some are just rehearsals, but still he performs constantly. To him, Detroit 1986 might be just "another concert". Nothing special amongst his thousands of lifetime performances. To someone who attended that concert, it was unique and special. THAT'S the difference.

.

Se7en said:

Songs like "Gotta Shake This Feeling Baby" from Neon Rendezvous . . . to Prince, this may have just been a throwaway, but to us, it's magic. Hearing Purple Rain music with new lyrics, awesome! Does it make me appreciate the real Purple Rain more? No way.

.

Another thing about his concert boots: Prince does hundreds of performances a year. Not all of them are public, and some are just rehearsals, but still he performs constantly. To him, Detroit 1986 might be just "another concert". Nothing special amongst his thousands of lifetime performances. To someone who attended that concert, it was unique and special. THAT'S the difference.

.

Sure, but that would suggest that Prince doesn't understand the value of conserving and curating for the PUBLIC benefit? He represents an institution, a legacy and has a detailed history of music, which requires preserving. It matters little whether we, you, I, they, consider any single one song/performance/anecdote particularly inspiring. His body of work and influence upon society, not to mention a critique of his genius, benefits from conserving and curating his entire body of work, released and especially unreleased. I think that's the difference, too. And, for that, at least at this stage, I thank the bootleggers. Effectively, no restoration efforts exist otherwise, given that Prince has no viable plans/company with the sole purpose of preserving this history. It's more than him. It's more than us. And it's more than just this time, "in the moment". We are talking about a phenomenal work in progress, whose value will only grow in time. It's a little like Alan Leeds looking at James Brown body of work and thinking to himself, as he once did, "I can't believe no one is documenting and preserving this..." Prince is in the same league, if not more because of his impact upon culture, music and the industry.

I have to agree...we gotta give props to the bootleggers.Thanks to them,we were able to hear ALOT of incredible music that otherwise would not have been available to us.

I still go crazy whenever I hear the unreleased songs from 1982/83...stuff like "Extralovable","G-Spot","Possessed","Electric Intercourse",etc it's a shame that the world (mainstream) hasn't heard some of this stuff!

[Edited 8/12/13 4:20am]

A case in point...

David Bowie already has a significant exhibition (currently ongoing) in London, UK, at the Victoria and Albert Museum. Prince, perhaps reluctantly or not (due to his revisionist tendencies), has deserved, and remains deserving of, a GIGANTIC seat amongst the greatest musicians in popular music history. To music, art and culture historians, he represents more than just a staggering footnote in the year, 1984.

Someone should pay BorisFishpaw and Langebleu to undertake the preservation process (with the help of some Org minions, like BartVanH, to crack open and review The Vault).

Also, before things get potentially twisted, Prince is, and was, a self-professed addict of collecting many, many, many James Brown BOOTLEGS himself. So, what does that say? Whichever way I cut it, I think Prince himself needs to be removed from his own body of past work, and professionals need to come in to do the job (as is almost always the case). It would be impossible for his own "organisation" to do, given that he doesn't appear to want to employ top-tier professionals any longer.

Bootleggers are providing us wonderful experiences, emotions, memories and moments. Despite what Prince says about the nature of it all...I listen to bootlegs almost exclusively these days. I have always felt the real honesty of his music comes alive when played live, and thankfully the bootleggers are giving this to us. Such wonderful efforts. Thanks to you all and please....keep up the great work!

[Edited 8/13/13 4:37am]

[Edited 8/13/13 4:38am]

SpiritOtter said:

Also, before things get potentially twisted, Prince is, and was, a self-professed addict of collecting many, many, many James Brown BOOTLEGS himself. So, what does that say? Whichever way I cut it, I think Prince himself needs to be removed from his own body of past work, and professionals need to come in to do the job (as is almost always the case). It would be impossible for his own "organisation" to do, given that he doesn't appear to want to employ top-tier professionals any longer.

Good point.