Every time this comes up no one seems to realize that you can't be played on the radio (especially as a veteran act) unless you turn your production over to whatever "beatmakers" are currently in favor at the moment and you relegate yourself to singing the "hook" on your own songs while featured rappers crowd you out.

You may want a Prince album produced by Dr. Luke and an army of hip-hop producers so he can get on the radio again, but given that he can still command magazine covers, national TV talk show appearances and major press coverage without it, why bother. I know lots of "oldies" acts that would love to be as "irrelevant" as Prince.

thedance said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

You're getting two things mixed up, thedance: The fact that U & I are not impressed by his new music doesn't mean his career is going off-rail! He's very successful. He's got exactly what he wanted: musical freedom and millions of dollars. The price he had to pay for this is no longer being a top ten hit making artist. But really, who is at 55?

Best answer so far..

If Prince is sucessful or not, well I guess it depends on what goals you have, the criteria you have for success..

I still hope Prince has a few more goals to "go after", there gotta be more for him, to his career than musical freedom - and... money...

I wish Prince would be "ambitious" again, and have more goals than to "satisfy" his rather small fanbase. Imo it would be great to see him being recoqnized among the mainstream, a big audience.. once again.

But again, it looks really difficult for him, now. And I am not saying I have any answers for him..

Are you referring to the fans who have been hanging around for a decade and a half claiming to be over him but waiting for that spark they know is there.

lwr001 said:

imago said:

There guys were MANAGERS with keen business sense.


Prince....is not.

You know how many product failures they all had? There success scale if much larger but if you think for a second that some of their ideas were not plain bad...

Yes, I know how many product failures each has had.

And, I stand by my original statement. The are managers, and Prince...is not.

prince responds to his success:

Big cars and women and fancy clothes will save your face but it won’t save your soul

he don't like anyone take control of him.

[Edited 7/6/13 2:34am]

imago said:

lwr001 said:

You know how many product failures they all had? There success scale if much larger but if you think for a second that some of their ideas were not plain bad...

Yes, I know how many product failures each has had.

And, I stand by my original statement. The are managers, and Prince...is not.

I find it sad that we have reached a point where people actually think a businessman should handle an artist's artistic choices... This is the summum of consumerism as a culture, and the death of art at the hands of its own consumers...

databank said:

imago said:

Yes, I know how many product failures each has had.

And, I stand by my original statement. The are managers, and Prince...is not.

I find it sad that we have reached a point where people actually think a businessman should handle an artist's artistic choices... This is the summum of consumerism as a culture, and the death of art at the hands of its own consumers...

but you gotta keep in mind that,the music business is exactly that....a business.It's not just about talent and art anymore.

i agree 100%. a big time record label isn't necessary these days. Prince needs a real, bona fide manager who can provide and sustain direction his current manager says that he's her mentor. that's problem number 1 right there.

imago said:

No.


With the Internet, Prince has an instant retail venue. He can sell digital music and CDs/Vinyl that way.


What Prince needs is a real manager that will stand up to him.


And, to be less of an ass.


But if by 'on track' you mean big again like the WB days, he's 54 and a JW. I don't see that happening.


But, to be interesting again, and to be vital again, he just needs a good manager, so he can concentrte on making good music. The music from 3rdeyegirl is more of the same so-so stuff, honestly.

SoulAlive said:

databank said:

I find it sad that we have reached a point where people actually think a businessman should handle an artist's artistic choices... This is the summum of consumerism as a culture, and the death of art at the hands of its own consumers...

but you gotta keep in mind that,the music business is exactly that....a business.It's not just about talent and art anymore.

U r correct but we should stand on the artists' side, not on the business (labels, managers) side, u know...

SoulAlive said:

databank said:

I find it sad that we have reached a point where people actually think a businessman should handle an artist's artistic choices... This is the summum of consumerism as a culture, and the death of art at the hands of its own consumers...

but you gotta keep in mind that,the music business is exactly that....a business.It's not just about talent and art anymore.

And what exactly has Prince done wrong thus far that has ruined him. Dude is filthy rich, has a private studio establishment running, can still get booking anywhere in the world without having a new product to sell. he's hardly destitute and living in squalor. While fans may not like his business decisions he's not suffering from any of them. There are musicians who'd kill to have the "off track" career opportunities that Prince has. Imagine how much more diverse music we'd have been exposed to if artists could literally bankroll their art(on a larger scale) out of their own pocket without having to kowtow to a label and businessmen telling them the art isn't marketable. Artists like Bilal, Van Hunt and Q-Tip have been silenced by businessmen.

HonestMan13 said:

And what exactly has Prince done wrong thus far that has ruined him. Dude is filthy rich, has a private studio establishment running, can still get booking anywhere in the world without having a new product to sell. he's hardly destitute and living in squalor. While fans may not like his business decisions he's not suffering from any of them. There are musicians who'd kill to have the "off track" career opportunities that Prince has. Imagine how much more diverse music we'd have been exposed to if artists could literally bankroll their art(on a larger scale) out of their own pocket without having to kowtow to a label and businessmen telling them the art isn't marketable. Artists like Bilal, Van Hunt and Q-Tip have been silenced by businessmen.

agree with u. love his i don't care attitude.

[Edited 7/6/13 7:16am]

MaddMaxx said:

i agree 100%. a big time record label isn't necessary these days. Prince needs a real, bona fide manager who can provide and sustain direction his current manager says that he's her mentor. that's problem number 1 right there.

imago said:

No.


With the Internet, Prince has an instant retail venue. He can sell digital music and CDs/Vinyl that way.


What Prince needs is a real manager that will stand up to him.


And, to be less of an ass.


But if by 'on track' you mean big again like the WB days, he's 54 and a JW. I don't see that happening.


But, to be interesting again, and to be vital again, he just needs a good manager, so he can concentrte on making good music. The music from 3rdeyegirl is more of the same so-so stuff, honestly.

What exactly is wrong with his current manager? What has she not done that someone else could>? Seems she has made some pretty nice moves on hs behalf or at min executed whatever vision Prince wanted for 2013

I wish Prince would be "ambitious" again.

Michael Jackson was ambitious & look how he ended up. So ambitious to make another record breaking concert series that he drove himself into an early grave. I would rather Prince be happy than ambitious.

HonestMan13 said:

SoulAlive said:

but you gotta keep in mind that,the music business is exactly that....a business.It's not just about talent and art anymore.

And what exactly has Prince done wrong thus far that has ruined him. Dude is filthy rich, has a private studio establishment running, can still get booking anywhere in the world without having a new product to sell. he's hardly destitute and living in squalor. While fans may not like his business decisions he's not suffering from any of them. There are musicians who'd kill to have the "off track" career opportunities that Prince has. Imagine how much more diverse music we'd have been exposed to if artists could literally bankroll their art(on a larger scale) out of their own pocket without having to kowtow to a label and businessmen telling them the art isn't marketable. Artists like Bilal, Van Hunt and Q-Tip have been silenced by businessmen.

AMEN!!!!!

redflag said:

Every time this comes up no one seems to realize that you can't be played on the radio (especially as a veteran act) unless you turn your production over to whatever "beatmakers" are currently in favor at the moment and you relegate yourself to singing the "hook" on your own songs while featured rappers crowd you out.

You may want a Prince album produced by Dr. Luke and an army of hip-hop producers so he can get on the radio again, but given that he can still command magazine covers, national TV talk show appearances and major press coverage without it, why bother. I know lots of "oldies" acts that would love to be as "irrelevant" as Prince.

I agree. He is doing awesomely being at this stage (passed numerous lifetime benchmarks and artistic heights) in his career.

Trust he is doing exactly what he wants. Goes on the TV shows he wants. Goes on the magazine covers he wants. Records what he wants, releases it how he wants. Plays what he wants, where he wants, when he wants.

He probably gets more respect for doing things this way than the whores that will play any game to be on radio.

thedoorkeeper said:

I wish Prince would be "ambitious" again.

Michael Jackson was ambitious & look how he ended up. So ambitious to make another record breaking concert series that he drove himself into an early grave. I would rather Prince be happy than ambitious.

ouch.

but true

HonestMan13 said:

Young artists are more in awe of being handed an award by him than recieving the award itself.

I like that one

thedance said:

THIS is about Prince's career, the quality of his many recent albums, or the lack of quality so to speak:


Back in '95, Prince chose his "freedom"... since then it all went downhill with his recordsales..

Prince is still an amazing artist, very successful in doing concerts, but noone can say he's rather sucessful in selling music. He used to. But. Not anymore.


don't you believe he needs another strong record company like Warner Bros to back him up... and to keep his career on track with promotion, marketing, etc..

Honest question: how many times have you started this thread already, 10 or 20 times?

It's more boring than 20ten.

Your idea of "succes" is very superficial and limited. Your idea of "good music" also. You are not even consitent either, because I have seen you rave on here about some 3rd eye girl songs, yet you always return to this boring old shit of complaining about his lack of "succes"and you wanting him to sell-out to WB again. Always WB, WB, WB do you work form them or something?

Ayway, what a drag!

chewymusic said:

HonestMan13 said:

Young artists are more in awe of being handed an award by him than recieving the award itself.

I like that one

Did you see when he presented Goyte & Kimbra with their Grammy? They were mesmerized by him more than their winning the award.

HonestMan13 said:

chewymusic said:

I like that one

Did you see when he presented Goyte & Kimbra with their Grammy? They were mesmerized by him more than their winning the award.

omg, that was a mind- blowing moment..

n harry berry, too.. she even couldn't hear her own name wen they call her as the winner, then she realized she could go to stage where prince is, her face suddenly turned to light..

love her!

[Edited 7/7/13 6:28am]

He's making millions still, but lets not forget that it's because of his PAST record sales why his concerts sell out.He wants a hit record...always has. Maybe he'll see that, in order for Hannah Ford to still make millions in her old age, he'll need to play the game to establish her hits.

It all depends on how you classify Prince. Do you classify him as an indie artist, or as a mainstream artist? I think he's a mainstream artist trying to have the best of both worlds, which can't really work.

Is it purely a coincidence that his WB albums are the best? That those are the only ones the general public cares about?

Please don't tell me he makes more money now. He probably does, but mostly from touring.

Also, 3EG's Facebook page has less than 10k likes. In today's world, that's not a good sign. With proper management, it would be 10-100x that much. Can't tell you about Prince's FB page, since he doesn't have one...

What makes you think Warner Bros (or any label today) is in a position to get anyone's career on track? The Star Maker Machine is over and done!!

The folks that run the machine today have NO CLUE how to break an artist! They are so obsessed and concerned with making a profit for the stock holders, they don't care about the music. PERIOD!

I would never want to sign or go back to a label. It's more slavery now than ever before, with no guarantee of making any money. Touring is where you make the money.

As for album sales, they are all competing with free. There is no incentive to record. It's used to propell the publicity and 15mins of fame.

That machine is shut down for good.

Se7en said:

It all depends on how you classify Prince. Do you classify him as an indie artist, or as a mainstream artist? I think he's a mainstream artist trying to have the best of both worlds, which can't really work. Is it purely a coincidence that his WB albums are the best? That those are the only ones the general public cares about? Please don't tell me he makes more money now. He probably does, but mostly from touring. Also, 3EG's Facebook page has less than 10k likes. In today's world, that's not a good sign. With proper management, it would be 10-100x that much. Can't tell you about Prince's FB page, since he doesn't have one...

revenue is revenue,, who cares where it comes from.. does he really need a fb page with a lot of likes? it makes sense that WB albums are the ones folks know the best as that was when he was in total sync with pop culture.. that was 30 years ago..he still in the game though and not on unsung or VH1 behind the music...

There has to be SOME way to quantify his success.

If it's just about money now (it's what most fans settle on as their default setting anymore), then is he the biggest income-earner for 2013? Not of all time, because that is a cop-out. Of course someone in the biz for 35 years should have a lot stashed away. Tell me about NOW.

If it's about album sales, is he the best of 2013? If it's NOT about album sales, is his latest music the best of 2013?

Is he winning music awards that aren't Lifetime Achievement Awards?

Do fans and critics alike rate his current music among the best in the industry (forget about comparing Prince to his older self)?

See my point: Prince fans say he's the best, but can't articulate (or prove) why. He doesn't sell the most albums, doesn't have hits or even chart-toppers, doesn't win current awards, doesn't have successful websites.

We Prince fans say that the SYSTEM sucks. We say that RADIO is stupid. That NO ONE is making money from albums. All valid excuses, but excuses nonetheless.

Our fallback position is that HE'S THE BEST LIVE PERFORMER! HE HAS HUNDREDS OF SONGS! Nobody wants to compare his 2013 to other artists' 2013.

To us, other male artists either suck, or rip off Prince.

See my point(s), friends? Yes, Prince has a history of success, but all of us -- fans, critics, and Prince himself -- give him a bit of a free pass when it comes to NOW.
[Edited 7/7/13 18:24pm]

Se7en said:

It all depends on how you classify Prince. Do you classify him as an indie artist, or as a mainstream artist? I think he's a mainstream artist trying to have the best of both worlds, which can't really work. Is it purely a coincidence that his WB albums are the best? That those are the only ones the general public cares about? Please don't tell me he makes more money now. He probably does, but mostly from touring. Also, 3EG's Facebook page has less than 10k likes. In today's world, that's not a good sign. With proper management, it would be 10-100x that much. Can't tell you about Prince's FB page, since he doesn't have one...

If you want to call Prince a mainstream artist then he's one of few capable of command arenas without having a new CD to push or hits on the radio to promote. If you want to call him indie then he's probably the only indie act capapble of having sold out arena shows and not being relegated to playing only small clubs and venues. So it seems he can have the best of both worlds and make it work for him. As for the money he makes it's no different than how most indie artists(or mainstream artists) make their money, touring. Touring has always been the most profitable way for any artist to make cash.

HonestMan13 said:

chewymusic said:

I like that one

Did you see when he presented Goyte & Kimbra with their Grammy? They were mesmerized by him more than their winning the award.

yup, loved it! c'mon we know Prince is the REAL DEAL!

There's a 21 y/o girl where I work & what does she love?

Ke$ha & GaGa.

She don't give a flyin fuck what Prince is up to. And what do I care?

I can play any one of hundreds of amazing Prince songs anytime I want

and it's because he's been prolific as a motherfucker for yeeeeaaaars.

I can pick and choose between so so so so many great Prince songs!

and you know sometimes I dig a little Horny Pony or cybersingle, etc..

The point is this: always keep it coming Prince!!

Fuck what these nitpicky motherfuckers perpetually obsess about!

I wanna listen to music!

For every great MJ song (produced by someone else let's not forget

& custom made for the market) thre's 10 amazing Prince songs in da cannon!

Yep I said it!

Se7en said:

It all depends on how you classify Prince. Do you classify him as an indie artist, or as a mainstream artist? I think he's a mainstream artist trying to have the best of both worlds, which can't really work. Is it purely a coincidence that his WB albums are the best? That those are the only ones the general public cares about? Please don't tell me he makes more money now. He probably does, but mostly from touring. Also, 3EG's Facebook page has less than 10k likes. In today's world, that's not a good sign. With proper management, it would be 10-100x that much. Can't tell you about Prince's FB page, since he doesn't have one...

who cares, wen above 70 % of these numbers are made by ghost followers,

there`s even a company manipulates those numbers.

is beatles famous? they have less likes in fb than one direction, n how to explain that? do they need comback to beat 1direction? wat im trying to say is prince is a legend already

love the message in fixurlifeup..

Don’t worry about what the crowd does
Just worry about being good at what you love
Don’t make this comṗlicated
You know it’s true
Don’t make us put somebody else in for you

Only if he is doing a pop radio friendly album (See Musicology.) otherwise no he doesn't need a label. In order to get radio air play at this stage in the game he has to be in the game (On a label.).

chewymusic said:

HonestMan13 said:

Did you see when he presented Goyte & Kimbra with their Grammy? They were mesmerized by him more than their winning the award.

yup, loved it! c'mon we know Prince is the REAL DEAL!

Truth! And the fact Prince said "I love this song" probably meant more to them.