HonestMan13 said:

funkaholic1972 said:

Dude, I never told others to give up their Prince fandom, plus I never said to you (or anyone else) that I am going to leave this website. So don't act all smart ass now with your "and here you are again two weeks later".

Geez, now that I think of it, you are one of the most annoying fams around here. So please go listen to LOL of some of that other new Prince drivel that you seem to enjoy so much, but don't talk to me anymore with this annoying pedantic attitude of yours. Dick...

OOOH you called me a "fam". How will I ever pick up the pieces? Maybe if I spend a decade and a half dwelling on it it'll come to me. See you in two weeks on thedance's next pity thread.

www.prince.org/msg/7/397868 (link to the last pity thread)

[Edited 6/18/13 5:50am]

[Edited 6/18/13 5:52am]

That is deservedly because you behave like one!

And, like I said before, I ain't going nowhere. So see you on the next pity thread, where no doubt you will chime in with your opinions. Which I don't mind, cuz its a free world and there is a place for all fans here...

HonestMan13 said:

You know what's hilarious about this topic TheDance cooked up this thread years ago and has been reheating it with every Prince release and serving it up like it's something new and fresh. He's in more of a rut than he can ever accuse Prince of being in. Prince has evolved over the years and that may be to some people liking or not but he has changed it up over time. Unlike this thread and this topic.

databank said:

Prince neither is the greatest musical genius of all times nor is he over and done. People need a sense of perspective

[Edited 6/18/13 2:24am]

No--he is over and done! And he's a genius at it! Nobody has ever been so brilliantly washed up as Prince is, or created such incredibly inspired garbage so consistently for so long! Anybody else would have accidentally created a good song in the last 20 years!

Do not deny his supernatural insipidness!!!

Doubters!!

Actually, databank's exactly right.

EddieC said:

databank said:

Prince neither is the greatest musical genius of all times nor is he over and done. People need a sense of perspective

[Edited 6/18/13 2:24am]

No--he is over and done! And he's a genius at it! Nobody has ever been so brilliantly washed up as Prince is, or created such incredibly inspired garbage so consistently for so long! Anybody else would have accidentally created a good song in the last 20 years!

Do not deny his supernatural insipidness!!!

Doubters!!

Actually, databank's exactly right.

U r speaking nonsense... fluently!

databank said:

Prince neither is the greatest musical genius of all times

Data, who do u think is the greatest of all time?

HonestMan13 said:

You know what's hilarious about this topic TheDance cooked up this thread years ago and has been reheating it with every Prince release and serving it up like it's something new and fresh. He's in more of a rut than he can ever accuse Prince of being in. Prince has evolved over the years and that may be to some people liking or not but he has changed it up over time. Unlike this thread and this topic.

Graycap23 said:

Data, who do u think is the greatest of all time?

I already answered that: reread the thread

databank said:

Graycap23 said:

Data, who do u think is the greatest of all time?

I already answered that: reread the thread

Thanks.

Graycap23 said:

databank said:

I already answered that: reread the thread

Thanks.

U lazy Orger!

I said there is no such thing as a greatest musician of all times.

databank said:

Graycap23 said:

Thanks.

U lazy Orger!

I said there is no such thing as a greatest musician of all times.

Big picture u are probably correct about that.

There are so many many artist on so many levels that it would be impossible 2 narrow such a list down. That said, people have their favorites 4 what ever reasons that they choose.

I disagree with this, if you look at 2 very popular fan albums and very creative and pushing the edge were Purple Rain & Parade, and both albums were very tame in the place of explicit language and sex. Lovesexy is another one.

.

So I don't agree that everytime someone might compare Prince of another time, it's about cursing and 'nasty' songs. Parade didn't even have Religious songs

outsideofthebox said:

it sounds like you want prince to go back to what he used to be which was swearing and singing nasty songs again. he addressed this issue on mtv almost 10 years ago.

thedance said:

Isn't it a paradox, Prince is definately a real musician, like he says whan playing live in concerts..: "Real music by real musicians".. yes.. U can hear he is, live in concerts. Prince is truly gifted, no doubt. One of the greatest - ever.


HOWEVER on records he is after all one of the most boring "real musicians" these years:

Just to name a recent album: "Planet Earth". Or "20Ten" or "3121".



This is quite another artist than the guy who created "1999". Or "Purple Rain" or "Parade". Or "Lovesexy".


Why follow a "real musician" like Prince is, today... when.. the end result on his albums isn't that "vital" like it used to be..?



Most of the time today U can't hear (in his recorded music) that he really is that skilled.


I understand why young people today, thinks Prince is irrelevant. You can't really hear his greatness anymore.


Truly a paradox to me, one of the greatest musicians making "tame" music..: I need to have my idol back, making wonderful music on the edge again. Instead of that kind of "tame" music (most of it, not all).


Am I too critical, am I expecting too much from a "real musician" - his purple majesty.. = Prince ?

OldFriends4Sale said:

I disagree with this, if you look at 2 very popular fan albums and very creative and pushing the edge were Purple Rain & Parade, and both albums were very tame in the place of explicit language and sex. Lovesexy is another one.

.

So I don't agree that everytime someone might compare Prince of another time, it's about cursing and 'nasty' songs. Parade didn't even have Religious songs

outsideofthebox said:

it sounds like you want prince to go back to what he used to be which was swearing and singing nasty songs again. he addressed this issue on mtv almost 10 years ago.

He didn't swear much on Purple Rain, ATWIAD, Parade, SOTT or Lovesexy. And that's an impressive string of albums.

Se7en said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I disagree with this, if you look at 2 very popular fan albums and very creative and pushing the edge were Purple Rain & Parade, and both albums were very tame in the place of explicit language and sex. Lovesexy is another one.

.

So I don't agree that everytime someone might compare Prince of another time, it's about cursing and 'nasty' songs. Parade didn't even have Religious songs

He didn't swear much on Purple Rain, ATWIAD, Parade, SOTT or Lovesexy. And that's an impressive string of albums.

I agree, like .1%

OldFriends4Sale said:

Se7en said:

He didn't swear much on Purple Rain, ATWIAD, Parade, SOTT or Lovesexy. And that's an impressive string of albums.

I agree, like .1%

All right--"swearing" was never a big part of Prince's music except from about 91-95, when it was probably mostly a response to the growing popularity of rap. Not really understanding the appeal, Prince latched onto the "dirty words" and tried to give himself some street cred by cussing up a storm. It felt forced then.

There were isolated moments in earlier songs, but honestly not much. A couple of mf's in "Sister." That's not what made that shocking. The little bit in "Let's Pretend We're Married" Backmasked in "Baby, I'm A Star." Erotic City (and I still hear funk most of the time in that). Maybe a few others.

I've got to say though, that "tame" (in an earlier post) seems a very strange description for Purple Rain, which might seem tame now, but not for a number one pop album at the time. True, it was still mainly isolated to one song, but by the standards of the time, "Dirty Nikki" was filthy. Sure, there's more sex in half of the top-ten singles right now (heck, there might be more in half of "Blurred Lines"), but it was enough to kick up the PMRC back then.

databank said:

novabrkr said:

Well, yes. I don't disagree with you, but I don't think there's a need to subject the use of such words to that type of criticism.

When a person that is a fan says Prince is "the greatest" (or "the best" etc.) it usually just means that Prince is among the greatest musicians of all time and that he happens to be the favourite of the person making such a statement. It's not "nonsense" - it's simply the way people express themselves. There might be some naive individuals on this site that think Prince being "the greatest" is an undisputable "fact", but I'm pretty sure most are aware that it's a matter of taste in the end.

Well, I don't know about that. People saying a thing but actually meaning something else... That's odd isn't it?

Nah, it's comparable to calling someone "the most beautiful woman in the world" or "the sexiest person in the world". Everyone knows there really is no criteria to speak in absolutes about such things, but they do that anyway. It's really not a big deal in the end, unless people get really argumentative on why their preferences should be shared by others.

EddieC said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I agree, like .1%

All right--"swearing" was never a big part of Prince's music except from about 91-95, when it was probably mostly a response to the growing popularity of rap. Not really understanding the appeal, Prince latched onto the "dirty words" and tried to give himself some street cred by cussing up a storm. It felt forced then.

There were isolated moments in earlier songs, but honestly not much. A couple of mf's in "Sister." That's not what made that shocking. The little bit in "Let's Pretend We're Married" Backmasked in "Baby, I'm A Star." Erotic City (and I still hear funk most of the time in that). Maybe a few others.

I've got to say though, that "tame" (in an earlier post) seems a very strange description for Purple Rain, which might seem tame now, but not for a number one pop album at the time. True, it was still mainly isolated to one song, but by the standards of the time, "Dirty Nikki" was filthy. Sure, there's more sex in half of the top-ten singles right now (heck, there might be more in half of "Blurred Lines"), but it was enough to kick up the PMRC back then.

lol yes Tame 4 Purple Rain does sound interesting.

.

but nothing as far as the soundtrack. and masturbate isn't a swear word, its actually scientific, right? lol

.

Lets Go Crazy, Take Me With U, the Beautiful Ones, Computer Blue, Darling Nikki, When Doves Cry, I Would Die 4 U, Baby I'm A Star, Purple Rain = No Curse Words

.

and definately not Parade, ATWIAD maybe in Temptation

Parade no religious ideaology

OldFriends4Sale said:

EddieC said:

All right--"swearing" was never a big part of Prince's music except from about 91-95, when it was probably mostly a response to the growing popularity of rap. Not really understanding the appeal, Prince latched onto the "dirty words" and tried to give himself some street cred by cussing up a storm. It felt forced then.

There were isolated moments in earlier songs, but honestly not much. A couple of mf's in "Sister." That's not what made that shocking. The little bit in "Let's Pretend We're Married" Backmasked in "Baby, I'm A Star." Erotic City (and I still hear funk most of the time in that). Maybe a few others.

I've got to say though, that "tame" (in an earlier post) seems a very strange description for Purple Rain, which might seem tame now, but not for a number one pop album at the time. True, it was still mainly isolated to one song, but by the standards of the time, "Dirty Nikki" was filthy. Sure, there's more sex in half of the top-ten singles right now (heck, there might be more in half of "Blurred Lines"), but it was enough to kick up the PMRC back then.

lol yes Tame 4 Purple Rain does sound interesting.

.

but nothing as far as the soundtrack. and masturbate isn't a swear word, its actually scientific, right? lol

.

Lets Go Crazy, Take Me With U, the Beautiful Ones, Computer Blue, Darling Nikki, When Doves Cry, I Would Die 4 U, Baby I'm A Star, Purple Rain = No Curse Words

.

and definately not Parade, ATWIAD maybe in Temptation

Parade no religious ideaology

The lack of religion in Parade is striking. I tend to think of it as being always there after Controversy, but there really isn't anything on Parade, is there? Well... it probably won't rain because "the man above has been paid," but that's a pretty offhand comment with no real meaning theologically. "The devil no like" Christopher's playing--does that have any significance?

Nope. No real religious content in Parade, I guess. Nothing beyond really vague afterlife hints in "Sometimes It Snows in April"--certainly nothing big.

EddieC said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

lol yes Tame 4 Purple Rain does sound interesting.

.

but nothing as far as the soundtrack. and masturbate isn't a swear word, its actually scientific, right? lol

.

Lets Go Crazy, Take Me With U, the Beautiful Ones, Computer Blue, Darling Nikki, When Doves Cry, I Would Die 4 U, Baby I'm A Star, Purple Rain = No Curse Words

.

and definately not Parade, ATWIAD maybe in Temptation

Parade no religious ideaology

The lack of religion in Parade is striking. I tend to think of it as being always there after Controversy, but there really isn't anything on Parade, is there? Well... it probably won't rain because "the man above has been paid," but that's a pretty offhand comment with no real meaning theologically. "The devil no like" Christopher's playing--does that have any significance?

Nope. No real religious content in Parade, I guess. Nothing beyond really vague afterlife hints in "Sometimes It Snows in April"--certainly nothing big.

actually if we look at it, outside of Lovesexy most of the 1980s album did not have much 'religious' content. I know a lot of articles and discusssion about Prince bring up the Sex & God conflict, but it's not really present in most of his 1980s albums at least. Now what he may present in live shows is one thing. But the actuall albums I never got much conflict or Religious lyrics.

.

Even Controversy only added the Our Father prayer recital as a form of Controversy because it gave it a blasphemous touch, almost like the backwards ending of side 1 Purple Rain. <-that's probably the strongest and most obvious 'religious' touch of that album and yet unless you were able to play it backwards you didn't know...

.

How about 1999 what was really religious on that? I don't think that had any either, even in the B sides

OldFriends4Sale said:

EddieC said:

The lack of religion in Parade is striking. I tend to think of it as being always there after Controversy, but there really isn't anything on Parade, is there? Well... it probably won't rain because "the man above has been paid," but that's a pretty offhand comment with no real meaning theologically. "The devil no like" Christopher's playing--does that have any significance?

Nope. No real religious content in Parade, I guess. Nothing beyond really vague afterlife hints in "Sometimes It Snows in April"--certainly nothing big.

actually if we look at it, outside of Lovesexy most of the 1980s album did not have much 'religious' content. I know a lot of articles and discusssion about Prince bring up the Sex & God conflict, but it's not really present in most of his 1980s albums at least. Now what he may present in live shows is one thing. But the actuall albums I never got much conflict or Religious lyrics.

.

Even Controversy only added the Our Father prayer recital as a form of Controversy because it gave it a blasphemous touch, almost like the backwards ending of side 1 Purple Rain. <-that's probably the strongest and most obvious 'religious' touch of that album and yet unless you were able to play it backwards you didn't know...

.

How about 1999 what was really religious on that? I don't think that had any either, even in the B sides

First, I think there's more to the Our Father inclusion in "Controversy" than just providing some controversy. However, I'll admit that I have that feeling largely because of other religious stuff in later tracks making me interpret that section differently than I might otherwise. So what religious stuff do I see in the '80s?

He hinted at religious issues from time to time, usually in connection with the idea of things coming to an end--the whole Second Coming thing. It's just a line, and also a joke, in "Sexuality," but it's there. Obviously for those who went to the shows and were hit with "The Second Coming" as an actual song to start of the Controversy tour, it's not just a throwaway line. 1999--I can't think of much outside of two things. "1999" obviously plays with apocalyptic imagery--but as became more clear over time, Prince really believes the world's going to end with all the biblical trappings--thus the "you can't run from Revelation" line in closing section (even without capping it, it's still religious). And what about "I'm in love with God, he's the only way; cuz you and I know we're gonna die some day" from "Let's Pretend We're Married". That's honestly about as sophisticated as most of his religious lyrics are now, and that's in a sex song.

Purple Rain--well, I don't know. "Purple Rain" itself is vague enough that if you're already looking for God stuff, you'll find it there. The "I'm your messiah" line draws attention to itself, but honestly until he changed it to "He's your messiah" in concert, it's not that explicit. Obviously the backmasking on "Darling Nikki"--but who didn't play it backwards? It was widely publicized, and that was back when everyone was spinning their turntables backwards to find that stuff.

Clearly, though, it is just a flavoring. He's not, except for a B-Side like "God," releasing anything that does any serious preaching. And even though he'd claim later that "Let's Go Crazy" was really about the devil and God, and it has that opening. Oh, that opening. Starts off the whole album by bringing up the subject of the afterlife and heaven. Again, it's not much. But it's a lot more than most artists. And it stood out at the time. People were already expecting the sexual and the sacred in Prince by the time Around the World in a Day came. They were already expecting something like "The Ladder" and "Temptation." The album ended with two songs dealing with the search for salvation and then the conflict between lust and the will of God.

After that ending, the relative lack of the subject on the next album is surprising.

Sign o' the Times--well, there's searching for answers in "Sign o' the Times," and the phrase is probably meant to refer to the way people in apocalyptically minded traditions (and Prince comes from those: Seventh Day and then later landing in Jehovah's Witnesses, both heavily into the idea of the "end times") are looking for signs of the end. Probably nothing else until "The Cross"--but that's the most purely "Christian" thing he'd done until then. He'd surpass it on Lovesexy, obviously. And the balance becomes more heavily weighted toward faith issues for that album.

Even then, explicitly religious material isn't in every song. "Eye No," "Anna Stesia," "Positivity." Is it really that important in the other songs? I know he defines "Lovesexy" as something about the feeling you get when you're in love with God instead of a boy or girl, or something--but the song is just sex, unless I'm forgetting something. "I Wish U Heaven," at least in the album version, is a failed or failing romance (I think), in which he's still wishing her good things, even if it didn't work/isn't working out between them. "Dance On" isn't even as religious as "Sign o' the Times." "When 2 R in Love" is from the Black Album, and has diddly to do with religion.

I'm not sure religion has ever, except maybe in Rainbow Children, really been almost the entire album. And a lot of that isn't either, really.

So maybe it's not as significant as I thought, honestly. Back in the 80's I was still working some things out in my head, so those points where he did address those issues may have stood out more to me. But it never was "dominant" in him, and I don't think it is now, either.

EddieC said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

actually if we look at it, outside of Lovesexy most of the 1980s album did not have much 'religious' content. I know a lot of articles and discusssion about Prince bring up the Sex & God conflict, but it's not really present in most of his 1980s albums at least. Now what he may present in live shows is one thing. But the actuall albums I never got much conflict or Religious lyrics.

.

Even Controversy only added the Our Father prayer recital as a form of Controversy because it gave it a blasphemous touch, almost like the backwards ending of side 1 Purple Rain. <-that's probably the strongest and most obvious 'religious' touch of that album and yet unless you were able to play it backwards you didn't know...

.

How about 1999 what was really religious on that? I don't think that had any either, even in the B sides

First, I think there's more to the Our Father inclusion in "Controversy" than just providing some controversy. However, I'll admit that I have that feeling largely because of other religious stuff in later tracks making me interpret that section differently than I might otherwise. So what religious stuff do I see in the '80s?

He hinted at religious issues from time to time, usually in connection with the idea of things coming to an end--the whole Second Coming thing. It's just a line, and also a joke, in "Sexuality," but it's there. Obviously for those who went to the shows and were hit with "The Second Coming" as an actual song to start of the Controversy tour, it's not just a throwaway line. 1999--I can't think of much outside of two things. "1999" obviously plays with apocalyptic imagery--but as became more clear over time, Prince really believes the world's going to end with all the biblical trappings--thus the "you can't run from Revelation" line in closing section (even without capping it, it's still religious). And what about "I'm in love with God, he's the only way; cuz you and I know we're gonna die some day" from "Let's Pretend We're Married". That's honestly about as sophisticated as most of his religious lyrics are now, and that's in a sex song.

Purple Rain--well, I don't know. "Purple Rain" itself is vague enough that if you're already looking for God stuff, you'll find it there. The "I'm your messiah" line draws attention to itself, but honestly until he changed it to "He's your messiah" in concert, it's not that explicit. Obviously the backmasking on "Darling Nikki"--but who didn't play it backwards? It was widely publicized, and that was back when everyone was spinning their turntables backwards to find that stuff.

Clearly, though, it is just a flavoring. He's not, except for a B-Side like "God," releasing anything that does any serious preaching. And even though he'd claim later that "Let's Go Crazy" was really about the devil and God, and it has that opening. Oh, that opening. Starts off the whole album by bringing up the subject of the afterlife and heaven. Again, it's not much. But it's a lot more than most artists. And it stood out at the time. People were already expecting the sexual and the sacred in Prince by the time Around the World in a Day came. They were already expecting something like "The Ladder" and "Temptation." The album ended with two songs dealing with the search for salvation and then the conflict between lust and the will of God.

After that ending, the relative lack of the subject on the next album is surprising.

Sign o' the Times--well, there's searching for answers in "Sign o' the Times," and the phrase is probably meant to refer to the way people in apocalyptically minded traditions (and Prince comes from those: Seventh Day and then later landing in Jehovah's Witnesses, both heavily into the idea of the "end times") are looking for signs of the end. Probably nothing else until "The Cross"--but that's the most purely "Christian" thing he'd done until then. He'd surpass it on Lovesexy, obviously. And the balance becomes more heavily weighted toward faith issues for that album.

Even then, explicitly religious material isn't in every song. "Eye No," "Anna Stesia," "Positivity." Is it really that important in the other songs? I know he defines "Lovesexy" as something about the feeling you get when you're in love with God instead of a boy or girl, or something--but the song is just sex, unless I'm forgetting something. "I Wish U Heaven," at least in the album version, is a failed or failing romance (I think), in which he's still wishing her good things, even if it didn't work/isn't working out between them. "Dance On" isn't even as religious as "Sign o' the Times." "When 2 R in Love" is from the Black Album, and has diddly to do with religion.

I'm not sure religion has ever, except maybe in Rainbow Children, really been almost the entire album. And a lot of that isn't either, really.

So maybe it's not as significant as I thought, honestly. Back in the 80's I was still working some things out in my head, so those points where he did address those issues may have stood out more to me. But it never was "dominant" in him, and I don't think it is now, either.

Nice run down

I guess it would depend on the person in personal mindsets on how big a piece becomes religious or not.

.

It's funny because the 2nd Coming, if we go by the movie to be made was probably about Prince cumming twice lol, because that movie as much or little as we know was all about a 'rock god' and sex

.

Yeah the line about being in love with God, ...

The apocolyptic stuff was really an energy driver to me, i really loved it throught the Controversy - Dream Factory music ie Crystal Ball and a few others. That theme was throught that period.

Purple Rain had it probably more heavy than 1999

and a lot of it came in writings like on 17 Days, which wasn't really about the end of the world but that line about the rain coming down and having to choose (which came from Dance Electric)

.

I too thought back then it was very prominent, but when I look back over the albums then it wasn't. It was probably expressed more through acting it out in live shows or writings connected to the album, but the song, not really.

.

I guess we definately could include the Black album, because it did make a huge mark back then. But definately nothing religious.

.

There was a lot of danger and mystery to those albums. I think a lot of his music now lacks that. A lot of riddles at times though.

I have grew from the music...Its like reading a big book...so many parts u can go back and read...but in reality we get older and understand things alot clearer and make better decisions....I personally love the new music cause I have a 11 and 13 year old....u should have seen them when I played screwdriver....I explained that its how u want to take the song...if u take it as dirty well then thats how u take it...I take it a different way. U see it all comes together eventually...thanks for the music...there are some songs I like way more than others but its always worth it IMO.....Peace and Love and keep jammin anyway

prince is no different than everyone else...make sexy hedonistic music in young days then when its time to croak you wanna change so you can get in heaven

novabrkr said:

databank said:

Well, I don't know about that. People saying a thing but actually meaning something else... That's odd isn't it?

Nah, it's comparable to calling someone "the most beautiful woman in the world" or "the sexiest person in the world". Everyone knows there really is no criteria to speak in absolutes about such things, but they do that anyway. It's really not a big deal in the end, unless people get really argumentative on why their preferences should be shared by others.

DAMN! You are right! I actually DID meet the most beautiful girl in the world once. Her first name's Naina and I almost blacked out when I first saw her (and no, unfortunately she's neither my girl nor an ex).

So, well, OK, you made your point

Just in case anyone saw it in the earlier post--

I am not a complete idiot. Obviously I meant to type "Darling Nikki," not "Dirty Nikki."

The hell there's people who think 20ten is truly his 1999 of the new era. This like virtually everything else, is all opinion and skeptics. Always have hope!

Anyway, his legacy has more eclecticism and depth than most artists so he has his riches to share regardless if everything recent is shit.