thedance said:

Fun times.

[Edited 6/10/13 6:10am]

steakfinger said:

There's nothing strange about Prince's music. He operates in pretty normal song structures. His magic, I think, comes from his vocal abilities and surprising arranging choices. His lyrical content is impressive to fantasy-minded escapists and he was quite successful at establishing a cult of personality about himself. There's really nothing on a nuts and bolts level in Prince's music that sets him apart from other writers.

As a professional muso myself, I'd tend to agree with you if you're talking about his hits. But go beyond that and there are plenty of examples of Prince displaying truly sophisticated harmonic development. I don't know too many writers (at least in the "pop" sphere) who would have the muscial sophistication to compose songs like (and these are just a few examples off the top of my head): Condition of the Heart; Sometimes it Snows in April (especially the chorus); Do U Lie; Around the World in a Day; Same December; 3 Chains of Gold; Damn U; Braves of the World; and lots of the stuff on The Rainbow Children and the One Nite Alone (piano) album.

[Edited 6/7/13 8:45am]

... plus his vox harmonies are a whole amazing topic to themselves.

[Edited 6/7/13 8:50am]

sucks at acoustic guitar music, sucks at solo piano music, brillant singer, and thats not opinion. THATS FACT!

The Truth and One Nite Alone are two of my favourite albums of any style of music, and I share that taste with a couple of pretty impressively credentialled muso buddies (including one who has written songs for a legendary group and another who plays professionally in a major symphony orchestra).

Prince doesn't have that great a voice to be honest. What's impressive is the way he has used his musicanship to craft something magnificent out of an average vocal instrument -- especially with his use of falsetto, vibrato, studio techniques and extraordinary harmonies.

TheDigitalGardener said:

Javi said:

I'd be thankful if you posted it or if you could give us the exact reference.

You may find it here http://princetext.tripod.com/ sorry I don't have time to check.

Thanks, I'll look for it.

BlaqueKnight said:

chuckdv2 said:

I would like to teach my kids about the various modes Prince likes to play in, have any of you ever created a lesson plan that students from early childhood through 12th grade might enjoy?

There is no "Prince mode" per se, but he seems to be fond of the dorian mode. I would start there if you are talking guitar.

you wrong! prince mainly plays in Mixolydian mode on guitar

kidmelody2012 said:

BlaqueKnight said:

There is no "Prince mode" per se, but he seems to be fond of the dorian mode. I would start there if you are talking guitar.

you wrong! prince mainly plays in Mixolydian mode on guitar

LOL, you must have been listening to his music through a system that pitch shifts all minor 3rds up a semi-tone.

PlusSign said:

kidmelody2012 said:

you wrong! prince mainly plays in Mixolydian mode on guitar

LOL, you must have been listening to his music through a system that pitch shifts all minor 3rds up a semi-tone.

you must be listening with wax in your ears go to 1'40" in this video by a 30 year professional guitar player and listen to what he says! I hate I have to come on here and argue with people with limited music knowledge!PRINCE PLAYS MIXOLYDIAN!WATCH THE VIDEO BELOW AT 1 MIN 40 SEC! https://www.youtube.com/w...kuozzK8BaY

blugtr542 said:

The Mixolydian mode is formed by lowering the 7th note of a major scale.Notice that this is really an F Major scale {key of F major has 1 flat (B)}Think of a Major scale and, starting from the 5th note of that scale, build an 8 note scale using the notes of the Major scale with which you started.G Mixolydian Scale = C major Scale starting on the 5th note of C Major scale.Notice that the half steps lie between the 3-4 and 6-7 steps. All other notes are I step apart. The Mixolydian scale plays through unaltered dominant chords ( C7-C9-C11-C13).These chords are diatonic to the scale. (An altered dominant chord is C7-5, C9+ etc)So the C Mixolydian Scale is C,D,E,F,G,A,Bb,C,D,E,D,F,G,A,Bb,C 1 3 5 7 9 11 13(V7) C7 (V7) C7 = C-E-G-Bb (1-3-5-7 of the scale)(V7) C9 = C-E-G-Bb-D (1-3-5-7-9-11 of the scale)(V11) C11 = C-E-G-Bb-D-F (1-3-5-7-9-11 of the scale)(V13) C13 = C-E-G-Bb-D-F-A (1-3-5-7-9-11-13 of the scale)This is very important for blues changes.ok kid melody there is your free lesson courtesy of Jazz Guitar Scales & Modes by Vincent BrediceMel Bay Publications .... I think it was 9.99 when I purchased it.I doubt that this runs through any real musicians mind(Prince) as they are playing it as I can attest to... we just play when we play.

thanks for acknowledging I was right! thats all I care about! When it comes to Music and women I AM ALWAYS RIGHT!lol

kidmelody2012 said:

you wrong! i asked jesse Johnson and its Mixolydian!

blugtr542 said:

ok i'm back... but from reading the responses i have to say that there is a lot of discourse about semantics and opinions as opposed to aesthetics and art. oops i guess thats the merry-go-round of semantics again.The real post is about helping the original poster with his query concerning lesson plans relating to prince music that he can use for his kids/students.So i will speak on that and not on outdated modes or craftiness of pop song writing.As an orger for a very, very long time and a minimalistic poster I have to say the initial thing to do is look some of the info up instead of arguing about it. It is out there....go to GP magazine online all articles are posted free, go to studio magazine etc do a google search etc. I teach and I really don't have time to do the work for you. As far as the magazine article reference it was during the new NPG era and it involved all the mags ...percussion world, guitar player , keyboard player and bass player prince and his members were on all the covers its out there. The purple rain referenced article was I believe from the one and only interview Prince did with guitar world magazine around the gold era.With musical examples and gear setups etc. it is out there.To speak on style of genres...Babyface comes to mind as far as using jazz harmonies in a pop world, as well as any of the black vocal groups from the 80's blackstreet, boys2men,guy , etc.If you trace these musician/composer genealogy you find they are actually related to jazz musicians in some instances, Babyface cousins to take6 members etc so you know their barbeques are exciting. more to come...

EUREKA! Thanks Blu. And I too have been a member for a LONG LONG TIME. I'm thinking my info was lost in the big PPML crash.

blugtr542 said:

I have to say back to Prince, sitting at one of many of his concerts he speaks on real music by real musicians...In a jazz sensibility real musicians(jazz musicians) improvised they didn't write it down they listened, played through the changes and made it up on the spot without a form of notation in front of them. So from a musical standpoint they were real musicians interested in the musical journey and not trying to find out the directions by de-evolving the road map. Now in practice that is exactly what they do they analyse those before them and re-invent that which has already been done.I don't wish to drop names of friends but I remember golfing with a member of the original Pfunk who inducted Prince into the hall of fame and he said when he met prince he was very cool but when it comes to music he is a chameleon like a mofo. He will steal the notes off your grandma's pies. He can copy and morph any style and make it his own and give it his signature.That is the beauty *(aesthetics) of music as an art. Use what you want as a springboard as long as you can make it your own. Think on that for a moment. Many white artists borrowed (stole) from black musicians because they could not do it on their own merit. Real music borrowed from Real musicians...Elvis, Tony Bennett, Bing Crosby, Gershwin....Today though the reverse is almost true. Bieber in the stable of Usher, Backstreet boys and new kids(men)(older men) on the block touring with boys to men? who is learning or referencing from who? OK back to the music...Why not start at the humble beginnings? Go to Princes first album speak on how it was put together and how he put it all together. What were his influences who was he crushing on when he wrote "I feel for you" Why he wrote for other artists. I am sure when he writes he doesn't think hmm will this Ebmajor with a G in the bass get me payed on the pop charts?? (correct term-altered chord- not slash chord) I am sure he is and will always be about the music first. But, aesthetically you have to be about the audience if you wish to keep one ... right?Start at the beginning and bring it up to today, listen a good start might be pick one or two songs off of each of princes output and have a discourse on it. Have the kids play some of the music. Leave some of the offfensive lyrics out. Have a discussion let the kids/students tell you what they want from it. I use Starfish and Coffee with primary students not to talk about the lesbian innuendos or people with disabilities or afflictions but simply to find out if my students had breakfast that day. I play the song on the keyboard and simply ask them one by one " What did you have for breakfast? " then we sing the chorus and the la la la's. It serves a purpose to find out who is ready to learn and who ate breakfast. They don't care if it is a I-IV-V-I in Gmajor or mixolydian or if it uses substitute chords in the bridge, or a V of V in the refrain. They just like to sing and eat. Like all kids. Oh and they definitely like the beat. So if it is any help to you start at the beginning and go from there. I have taught for over 30 years and played for more then 4 decades...my dad played with James Jameson and Motown and my siblings have been on major labels when major labels were still major labels but I digress and I'm dropping names again.If you want some inklings on how Prince added upper extensions to his music look at Clair Fischers speech on red bull lectures he tells you what he did and his influences. It is over an hour and posted somewhere here in the archives. In fact back in the day when I went to the ivory towers my jazz prof knew clair fischer ... I remember him saying hey man u like prince right guess what...I am being taught by a guy and he gets tapes from prince to add string arrangements to and they have never met do you believe that shit? His famous quote being " Hey...U still stacking them thirds man?" And yes I am but I just make sure my kids/students have eaten breakfast first. Peace

EXCELLENT IDEA!! I can play Starfish and Coffee, I love the Breakfast Idea too. I do something similar with the Supercalifragalistic... song. I ask them if they could use the word in a particular circumstance or emotion. We sing it to "wake them up" then we have this kind of fun with it. THANK YOU! I myself (If I may drop a name too) have worked with Stevie Wonder's former arranger and Orchestra Conductor who taught me how to sample (real sounds) and create effects using various music technologies-(which is what I want my kids to learn) But I digress too. Thanks again Blu!

blugtr542 said:

chuckdv2....glad i could help you. I forgot I have an iphone and I found a cool app that is affordable and very useful in the classroom. You should try it if you have an inkling to involve technology in your music class. It is called " iMaschine" It is basically an interface (sequencing hardware/software) that looks like a drum machine you can import and export finished product to soundcloud if you use Apple, so can your students.You or your students can create loops and beats as well as finished songs. You can also buy extra libraries of sounds designed by various producers. Use their beats or samples. I think I have spent about 25 dollars in total this year downloading libraries for various uses in the class. The students love to create beats using the interface because they own it. The cost to me is cleaning fingerprints off my phone and a music curriculum with students that are having fun and learning. A few other apps are www.incredibox.com at this site you get characters where you can drag and drop beats,melodies, chorus, onto the images to create little songs or loops check out some examples on youtube. The kids love hands on interfaces and it works great with a smartboard or video projector with your laptop. Truth be known I can't get my 4 year old off my laptop when he is creating with incredibox. Before he says hello to me he says " can I play with Incredibox dad " !There are of course more sophisticated sequencing apps and fun sites out there ...www.Audioboo.com www.Edmodo.comwww.audionation.com (check spelling not sure off top of my head) a site with real libraries and loops available to drag and drop kinda like a poor mans baby pro tools with the sounds already present. Enjoy!Terry Crews on Vimeo has a muscle beat box human interface ...very hilariousand finally check out Pat Metheny's Orchestrion he was actually performing it on french canadian television a few nights ago...It is an incredible array of instruments and switches where he inputs the sequences and improvises solo over top. He created an album of the same title a few years back. Ridiculous and innovative.The ultimate one man band album and he has a lot to say about Jazz, Kenny G, and the direction of composition today on his site www.PatMetheny.com . I remember meeting him after a concert in Detroit and asking him how he got that jazzy tone that I had been trying to emulate with pickups, picks amps, mic placements, everything but vaseline and chicken grease and he told me right out...You know what man.... I just don't change my strings for a while and all that brightness just disapears lol So I ended the search and focused on just playing. I couldn't bring myself to ask him about his hair stylist though. Like I said it is good you pass on your knowledge anyway possible and don't pay attention to the haters. Peace and Love, Blugtr542 member since day 1.

I have garage band on my iphone and I will certainly check these out. How I long for the day that the school budgets will allow me to purchase ipads, and Macs to really get the kids involved. I think I'm close to the goal of getting this part of my curriculum started. I'm limited in resources but the idea you gave me, saves a TON on what I would have to actually purchase to make it part of my lesson plan. If that makes sense ( I tend to ramble).

interesting thread. I attempted a thread critiquing his lyrical ability. Was shouted down by most . With the same kinda refrain .. can you do better .. well actually ..yes most people who write lyrics can write more profound words that evoke different levels of emotional responce ..i like the debate and the fact that many of the songs broken down are fairly simple.. it doesnt make me rate Prince any less as an artist , In fact his ability as stated is using his imagination to repackage generally simple structures and make them sound innovative. Kiss is a blues .. but in Princes hands /Mazeratis . sounds unique . thats his skill ... his production are arrangements are often perfect for the vehicle he is driving. He is a pop writer . skilled in hooks .. production and of a time... Steely Dans structures are interesting but not really comparable as much of their music had a different aim it seems to me . Steely Dan makes me think.. 'what are they playing?' what chord is that ? oh thats how they get from there to there . Always felt it inwards facing..clever music .. you feel clever listening to it .. gr8t . Prince at his best was more emitionally evocative but how how he achieves it isnt always clever .. but can be highly effective . more of these threads please

[Edited 6/9/13 14:50pm]