How come P. on his DNA show sung "I want to come inside of u" in When We're Dancing Close And Slow, but he couldn't sing freaking "damn" in housequake sampler or "Frontin' more booty than Peru got keys" in Endorphinmachine?

One is just crude the others are swearing? I dunno - don't look for sense in Princeworld!

I don't not know if the no swearing thing was exclusively down to his JW fetish, since there was that whole One Song diatribe about language and intent that seemed to click in more with his New Age mysticism stuff than JW.

Pitrzel said:

How come P. on his DNA show sung "I want to come inside of u" in When We're Dancing Close And Slow, but he could sing freaking "damn" in housequake sampler or "Frontin' more booty than Peru got keys" in Endorphinmachine?

Because he's the man!!!

lmbo, goodnight.

I remember Prince saying in an interview a couple years ago, that sex is not a bad word, it's how you talk about it. I'm paraphrasing, but it seems like for 5 years since becoming a Jehovah Witness, he did everything he could to repress the urge to sing sexually explicit messages in his songs and found covert ways to sing about sex without sounding too lewd. But from a creative standpoint, I think he struggled mightily to reconcile his former lewdness with his faith.

Ultimately, his missionary work for the JW will count more than what he sings on stage and if he is abiding by the personal tenets of the faith that's really all that should matter.

bashraka said:

I remember Prince saying in an interview a couple years ago, that sex is not a bad word, it's how you talk about it. I'm paraphrasing, but it seems like for 5 years since becoming a Jehovah Witness, he did everything he could to repress the urge to sing sexually explicit messages in his songs and found covert ways to sing about sex without sounding too lewd. But from a creative standpoint, I think he struggled mightily to reconcile his former lewdness with his faith.

Ultimately, his missionary work for the JW will count more than what he sings on stage and if he is abiding by the personal tenets of the faith that's really all that should matter.

He did? Could you provide some examples of this? I don't think agree with you.

[Edited 5/2/13 7:50am]

And how's your relationship with the tenets of your faith coming along?

We all struggle, doesn't make us hypocrites.

His is just in our face more because he's a public figure.

skywalker said:

bashraka said:

I remember Prince saying in an interview a couple years ago, that sex is not a bad word, it's how you talk about it. I'm paraphrasing, but it seems like for 5 years since becoming a Jehovah Witness, he did everything he could to repress the urge to sing sexually explicit messages in his songs and found covert ways to sing about sex without sounding too lewd. But from a creative standpoint, I think he struggled mightily to reconcile his former lewdness with his faith.

Ultimately, his missionary work for the JW will count more than what he sings on stage and if he is abiding by the personal tenets of the faith that's really all that should matter.

He did? Could you provide some examples of this? I don't think agree with you.

[Edited 5/2/13 7:50am]

I tried to phrase it without sounding judgemental. From the One Nite Alone Tour to Musicology he stated that he wasn't going to perform songs like "Head", "Gett Off" and "Erotic City" because of responsiblitiy he felt towards younger people that would see him perform. He said this during his interview with Stephen Hill on BET during the Musicology album release simulcast. My point was that it seemed like he has struggled with that stance and since then, he has performed portions of said songs during the sampler set.

BTW, Shayde, I never said he was a hypocrite. I was empathizing, because I appreciate his stance about singing those songs and wanting to give his fans what they want to hear. I ultimately agree, that we all sin, and as long as he is making music, thats all that matters.

bashraka said:

skywalker said:

He did? Could you provide some examples of this? I don't think agree with you.

[Edited 5/2/13 7:50am]

I tried to phrase it without sounding judgemental. From the One Nite Alone Tour to Musicology he stated that he wasn't going to perform songs like "Head", "Gett Off" and "Erotic City" because of responsiblitiy he felt towards younger people that would see him perform. He said this during his interview with Stephen Hill on BET during the Musicology album release simulcast. My point was that it seemed like he has struggled with that stance and since then, he has performed portions of said songs during the sampler set.

BTW, Shayde, I never said he was a hypocrite. I was empathizing, because I appreciate his stance about singing those songs and wanting to give his fans what they want to hear. I ultimately agree, that we all sin, and as long as he is making music, thats all that matters.

I hear you, but I think he just cut out swearing. He performed "Gett Off" (even w/o the scriptures verse) many times during the 1st 5 years of becoming a JW.

His lyrics were/are often still hypersexual. In fact, two of his odes to sex toys "Mellow" and "Supercute" (complete with sound effects) came out/were performed during the time frame you are describing.

[Edited 5/2/13 10:42am]

I was responding more to the topic of the thread rather than to you specifically, Bashraka.

You make some interesting observations.

skywalker said:

bashraka said:

I tried to phrase it without sounding judgemental. From the One Nite Alone Tour to Musicology he stated that he wasn't going to perform songs like "Head", "Gett Off" and "Erotic City" because of responsiblitiy he felt towards younger people that would see him perform. He said this during his interview with Stephen Hill on BET during the Musicology album release simulcast. My point was that it seemed like he has struggled with that stance and since then, he has performed portions of said songs during the sampler set.

BTW, Shayde, I never said he was a hypocrite. I was empathizing, because I appreciate his stance about singing those songs and wanting to give his fans what they want to hear. I ultimately agree, that we all sin, and as long as he is making music, thats all that matters.

I hear you, but I think he just cut out swearing. He performed "Gett Off" (even w/o the scriptures verse) many times during the 1st 5 years of becoming a JW.

His lyrics were/are often still hypersexual. In fact, two of his odes to sex toys "Mellow" and "Supercute" (complete with sound effects) came out/were performed during the time frame you are describing.

[Edited 5/2/13 10:42am]

He made Underneath The Cream as well, and The Gingerbread Man (if Ur standing over a puddle, jump on these hips). He came on stage to the music from Sexy MF at the Grammy Awards as well.

Pitrzel said:

How come P. on his DNA show sung "I want to come inside of u" in When We're Dancing Close And Slow, but he could sing freaking "damn" in housequake sampler or "Frontin' more booty than Peru got keys" in Endorphinmachine?

Reading your thread sounds like he did it all... there is no he could "not" or he "didn't", I guess thats how its suppose to read for the latter???

NouveauDance said:

One is just crude the others are swearing? I dunno - don't look for sense in Princeworld!

I don't not know if the no swearing thing was exclusively down to his JW fetish, since there was that whole One Song diatribe about language and intent that seemed to click in more with his New Age mysticism stuff than JW.

*

I agree with all that you have said but will only add that the "treaty" or "diatribe" in "One Song" is dead-on Christian ideology of the whole mankind is doomed because Adam and Eve chose the Tree of Knowledge over the Tree of Life, and man’s knowledge is too myopic and perverted to produce anything but chaos, etc. But, your point does show, again, how much most religions or religious concepts have in common even though most people fail to see that or just don't want to see that--what James Baldwin called "selective naivety."

*

And now responding to the OP, I am often amazed how one person's struggle with dichotomy is another person's hypocrisy. What's sad or funny is that so many non-religious people who claim that people, like Prince, who embrace a traditional or orthodox religion are myopic, narrow-minded, or petty, yet these same non-religious people spend most of their lives judging the "religious freaks," showing truly how myopic, narrow-minded, and petty they are. If someone says they don't want to smoke anymore or doesn’t want to have pre-marital sex but yields to temptation, is that person a hypocrite? If so, my hypocritical butt is surely going to pay for all of that fried chicken that I swore I would stop eating. Christianity, like any other ideology, is about striving for an ideal; it's not about being perfect. The lives of most secular philosophers should be proof of that. We should all be more concerned about the log in our own eyes rather than the twig in someone else’s eye.

[Edited 5/2/13 17:15pm]

NouveauDance said:

don't look for sense in Princeworld!

Question answered.

1725topp said:

Prince has always had a strange relationship with words.


I mean, remember when he was saying stupid shit like contracts were bad because they contained the word CON, yadda yadda yadda?


He failed to address the isue that this only applies in English, and that other languages wouldn't have the same issue with contracts or other words he found dismissive.


But, with regards to cursing, he's stance has been that it hurts people, so he strictly refrains from it. This is actually noble. Eventually it is hoped that this will mean that he'll stop harrassing the org, suing his fans, and taking down innocent videos on youtube. I mean, because he's so sincere about not wanting to 'hurt' people that is.

imago said:

imago said:

Prince has always had a strange relationship with words.


I mean, remember when he was saying stupid shit like contracts were bad because they contained the word CON, yadda yadda yadda?


He failed to address the isue that this only applies in English, and that other languages wouldn't have the same issue with contracts or other words he found dismissive.


But, with regards to cursing, he's stance has been that it hurts people, so he strictly refrains from it. This is actually noble. Eventually it is hoped that this will mean that he'll stop harrassing the org, suing his fans, and taking down innocent videos on youtube. I mean, because he's so sincere about not wanting to 'hurt' people that is.

Sincere about not wanting to hurt his bottom line, that is.

undertheesea said:

imago said:

Prince has always had a strange relationship with words.


I mean, remember when he was saying stupid shit like contracts were bad because they contained the word CON, yadda yadda yadda?


He failed to address the isue that this only applies in English, and that other languages wouldn't have the same issue with contracts or other words he found dismissive.


But, with regards to cursing, he's stance has been that it hurts people, so he strictly refrains from it. This is actually noble. Eventually it is hoped that this will mean that he'll stop harrassing the org, suing his fans, and taking down innocent videos on youtube. I mean, because he's so sincere about not wanting to 'hurt' people that is.

Words r just that...w.o.r.d.s. they hold no power. It's the intent behind them. I feel there's a difference between "cussing" and cursing at someone. For instance if i muddier under my breath "fuck that shit" or "oh fuck!"vs. "Fuck off mother fucker!"... Words the same but intent different. We get so caught up on thee little things . Lord u remove the speck out of ur eye and ill remove mine...it still doesn't make either one of us Devine... It just says... We r all human...

^^ thats your view point. But in most faiths, including christianity vulgarity and swearing is a sin and he knows that so maybe he is uncomfortable with it. for example in the bible theres a scripture that says life and death is in the power of the tongue (Proverbs 18:21) christians take this to heart.

Um.... well passages of the bible refer to orgasm. And it IS POSSIBLE to have sex within a monogamous marriage? Right? Could a husband not sing this to his lover within a Christian relationship?

However "damn"-ing is a reference to damnation. Or "God-Damn" which could equate with something he cannot feel comfortable with.

I don't take this as hypocrisy in the least.

But I suppose if you want to be offended and find reasons to criticize and call P a hypcrite, that's totally within your right.

Oh great, now he hasn't played When We're Dancing Close And Slow at the last few shows. I hope it wasn't because of this. Some of us actually *wanted* to hear it. Prince can play whatever he wants, and whatever makes him happy, but I hope he didn't make changes because of criticism.

MadamGoodnight said:

Oh great, now he hasn't played When We're Dancing Close And Slow at the last few shows. I hope it wasn't because of this. Some of us actually *wanted* to hear it. Prince can play whatever he wants, and whatever makes him happy, but I hope he didn't make changes because of criticism.

Maybe he decided to listen to his conscience, instead...

Or maybe he's listening to his conscience and rotating it out for the purposes of changing up his setlist?

undertheesea said:

Words r just that...w.o.r.d.s. they hold no power. It's the intent behind them.

I agree with that - But Prince doesn't. Changing the word "duck" for "fuck" - the intention and message is exactly the same despite the wordplay.

Again - don't look for sense in Princeworld.

undertheesea said:

imago said:

Prince has always had a strange relationship with words.


I mean, remember when he was saying stupid shit like contracts were bad because they contained the word CON, yadda yadda yadda?


He failed to address the isue that this only applies in English, and that other languages wouldn't have the same issue with contracts or other words he found dismissive.


But, with regards to cursing, he's stance has been that it hurts people, so he strictly refrains from it. This is actually noble. Eventually it is hoped that this will mean that he'll stop harrassing the org, suing his fans, and taking down innocent videos on youtube. I mean, because he's so sincere about not wanting to 'hurt' people that is.

Words r just that...w.o.r.d.s. they hold no power. It's the intent behind them. I feel there's a difference between "cussing" and cursing at someone. For instance if i muddier under my breath "fuck that shit" or "oh fuck!"vs. "Fuck off mother fucker!"... Words the same but intent different. We get so caught up on thee little things . Lord u remove the speck out of ur eye and ill remove mine...it still doesn't make either one of us Devine... It just says... We r all human...

Alexander the Great would have begged to differ.

undertheesea said: Preach it!!!

People come at Christians with as much hate as they accuse "Christians" of.

Check ur own self b4 u spew out hate to ur brother! U accuse urself!!! Both r ignorant!

I have little tolerance for religious people whether u make ur cause of life ur religon or u subscribe to the hypocrisy.

Its interesting that if u just pick up the bible for urself , even if its for historical or stories alone, u will read in the new testimony ... "The gospels" how it was the religious people of the church that demanded Jesus b crucified. Yeah while Jesus was having dinner and breaking bread with the so called "sinners" pastors the church were plotting his death. He had one of the closest friendships with a woman that was a prostitute. He just went on a hill and would start talkin and whoever liked what he had to say followed him.

Jesus gets such a bad wrap ... The worst r people n the church...

*

I am not really sure if you were responding to me with either of these posts because I can’t make sense of either. But, for clarification, if you were responding to me, can you show where I was “spewing hate to my brother”? How am I spewing hate by suggesting that people should spend more time focusing on their own issues and problems than spending time focusing on the “hypocrisy” of someone else? Then, I simply raised the question of can we be sure if someone, like Prince, is being hypocritical or if he is simply struggling with or trying to find a way to reconcile his own conflicts. So, how is it spewing hate to suggest that we all be more careful about calling someone a hypocrite? Again, you may not have been responding to me, but if you were can you clarify? Also, your rant about Jesus and many people in the church may be true, but it has absolutely nothing to do with my comments or anything that anyone else said. But, yes, there are lots of hypocritical church people, but there are just as many hypocritical atheist and other non-church people, which is why I said we’d all be better dealing with our own issues than worrying about somebody else’s issues. And, I don’t understand how that statement is “spewing hate”.

*

undertheesea said: Words r just that...w.o.r.d.s. they hold no power. It's the intent behind them. I feel there's a difference between "cussing" and cursing at someone. For instance if i muddier under my breath "fuck that shit" or "oh fuck!"vs. "Fuck off mother fucker!"... Words the same but intent different. We get so caught up on thee little things . Lord u remove the speck out of ur eye and ill remove mine...it still doesn't make either one of us Devine... It just says... We r all human...

*

Again, not sure if you are responding to me, but since you are paraphrasing my statement I’ll respond to you. I never said that my statement makes me more divine than anyone else. My point is that if we both have issues then we both would be better worrying about our own issues than me worrying about your issues and you worrying about my issues. You are right; we are all human. And if the OP would realize that Prince is just a "human," then the OP would spend more time worrying about his issues than worrying about Prince's hypocrisy because Prince is just "human."

*

But you do understand that words are vocal and printed signs/symbols for ideas, and ideas do have power because ideas articulate and inform how each of us engage life? Accordingly, words do have meaning but only in context. So, the context of a word determines its meaning, or, simply put, context gives words meaning. So, the word “fuck” is an expression of a profane idea, and the profanity or profane idea can be anything from simply being irreverent, or rude, or mocking, or sexually explicit, or blasphemous. Whatever the case, when one uses “fuck,” one means to be profane. So, in choosing not to use the term, one is choosing not to be profane. The problem for Prince, in the case of changing his lyrics, is that the meaning of profanity has been prescribed or encoded into the context of lyric. So, changing “fuck” to “duck” may not for others (his listeners) change the meaning because the entire phrasing/meaning has been prescribed to be “profane,” regardless of the change of a certain word or a few words. Even when Prince is singing the new lyrics, one can clearly hear many in the audience singing the old lyrics because they want the “profane” meaning of the original lyric. It was something about the profane meaning of the original lyric that initially attracted them to the song. So, when someone says, "I don't give a fuck," that person means more than just they don't care about what others think. That person is, by using "fuck," also meaning to be profane by being rude or mocking or disrespectful. The problem with replacing "fuck" with "duck" in this sentence is that it makes the sentence nonsensical. Yes, "duck" rhymes with "fuck," but "duck" does not have the same meaning as "fuck." I can say that "I wanna duck you" or "Duck off" or "Go duck yourself," but it's all nonsensical except if the listener knows that I'm being sarcastic or facetious. Essentially, Prince, late in his career, learned a lesson about language and creativity the difficult way, which is while the use of profanity may be expedient in its shock value to allow one to appear to be irreverent, eventually quality writing/creative writing shows that for all of its intensity/power profanity really is an example of an ignorant mind trying to express itself. So whether it is for religious reasons or because he just wants to be more adult/mature/responsible with his language, Prince is realizing that it is difficult to “undo” the past, especially a past from which he has profited both artistically and economically. And, as a poet and fiction writer, I have had to learn this lesson myself, regarding language I though was cool in my twenties that I now see as limiting and just plain ignorant in my forties.

*

Of course, this returns us to the original discussion as to whether or not Prince is being hypocritical by changing certain words. And while I can vaguely see how someone might want to call Prince a “hypocrite” for changing certain words so as not to be or appear to be “profane,” I agree with the notion that rather than being hypocritical Prince is simply trying to find a way to reconcile his new desire not to be profane with some of his old life/art. That is—how can one keep something of one’s past life when one has a new perception of how life should be lived. If that is being hypocritical, then every person that attempts to grow/mature and be less profane and more virtuous or responsible would be considered a hypocrite. I’m just glad that at age forty-three I don’t think or behave as I did at age twenty-three. If that makes me a hypocrite, then I gladly accept that title.

1725topp said:

undertheesea said: Preach it!!!

People come at Christians with as much hate as they accuse "Christians" of.

Check ur own self b4 u spew out hate to ur brother! U accuse urself!!! Both r ignorant!

I have little tolerance for religious people whether u make ur cause of life ur religon or u subscribe to the hypocrisy.

Its interesting that if u just pick up the bible for urself , even if its for historical or stories alone, u will read in the new testimony ... "The gospels" how it was the religious people of the church that demanded Jesus b crucified. Yeah while Jesus was having dinner and breaking bread with the so called "sinners" pastors the church were plotting his death. He had one of the closest friendships with a woman that was a prostitute. He just went on a hill and would start talkin and whoever liked what he had to say followed him.

Jesus gets such a bad wrap ... The worst r people n the church...

*

I am not really sure if you were responding to me with either of these posts because I can’t make sense of either. But, for clarification, if you were responding to me, can you show where I was “spewing hate to my brother”? How am I spewing hate by suggesting that people should spend more time focusing on their own issues and problems than spending time focusing on the “hypocrisy” of someone else? Then, I simply raised the question of can we be sure if someone, like Prince, is being hypocritical or if he is simply struggling with or trying to find a way to reconcile his own conflicts. So, how is it spewing hate to suggest that we all be more careful about calling someone a hypocrite? Again, you may not have been responding to me, but if you were can you clarify? Also, your rant about Jesus and many people in the church may be true, but it has absolutely nothing to do with my comments or anything that anyone else said. But, yes, there are lots of hypocritical church people, but there are just as many hypocritical atheist and other non-church people, which is why I said we’d all be better dealing with our own issues than worrying about somebody else’s issues. And, I don’t understand how that statement is “spewing hate”.

*

undertheesea said: Words r just that...w.o.r.d.s. they hold no power. It's the intent behind them. I feel there's a difference between "cussing" and cursing at someone. For instance if i muddier under my breath "fuck that shit" or "oh fuck!"vs. "Fuck off mother fucker!"... Words the same but intent different. We get so caught up on thee little things . Lord u remove the speck out of ur eye and ill remove mine...it still doesn't make either one of us Devine... It just says... We r all human...

*

Again, not sure if you are responding to me, but since you are paraphrasing my statement I’ll respond to you. I never said that my statement makes me more divine than anyone else. My point is that if we both have issues then we both would be better worrying about our own issues than me worrying about your issues and you worrying about my issues. You are right; we are all human. And if the OP would realize that Prince is just a "human," then the OP would spend more time worrying about his issues than worrying about Prince's hypocrisy because Prince is just "human."

*

But you do understand that words are vocal and printed signs/symbols for ideas, and ideas do have power because ideas articulate and inform how each of us engage life? Accordingly, words do have meaning but only in context. So, the context of a word determines its meaning, or, simply put, context gives words meaning. So, the word “fuck” is an expression of a profane idea, and the profanity or profane idea can be anything from simply being irreverent, or rude, or mocking, or sexually explicit, or blasphemous. Whatever the case, when one uses “fuck,” one means to be profane. So, in choosing not to use the term, one is choosing not to be profane. The problem for Prince, in the case of changing his lyrics, is that the meaning of profanity has been prescribed or encoded into the context of lyric. So, changing “fuck” to “duck” may not for others (his listeners) change the meaning because the entire phrasing/meaning has been prescribed to be “profane,” regardless of the change of a certain word or a few words. Even when Prince is singing the new lyrics, one can clearly hear many in the audience singing the old lyrics because they want the “profane” meaning of the original lyric. It was something about the profane meaning of the original lyric that initially attracted them to the song. So, when someone says, "I don't give a fuck," that person means more than just they don't care about what others think. That person is, by using "fuck," also meaning to be profane by being rude or mocking or disrespectful. The problem with replacing "fuck" with "duck" in this sentence is that it makes the sentence nonsensical. Yes, "duck" rhymes with "fuck," but "duck" does not have the same meaning as "fuck." I can say that "I wanna duck you" or "Duck off" or "Go duck yourself," but it's all nonsensical except if the listener knows that I'm being sarcastic or facetious. Essentially, Prince, late in his career, learned a lesson about language and creativity the difficult way, which is while the use of profanity may be expedient in its shock value to allow one to appear to be irreverent, eventually quality writing/creative writing shows that for all of its intensity/power profanity really is an example of an ignorant mind trying to express itself. So whether it is for religious reasons or because he just wants to be more adult/mature/responsible with his language, Prince is realizing that it is difficult to “undo” the past, especially a past from which he has profited both artistically and economically. And, as a poet and fiction writer, I have had to learn this lesson myself, regarding language I though was cool in my twenties that I now see as limiting and just plain ignorant in my forties.

*

Of course, this returns us to the original discussion as to whether or not Prince is being hypocritical by changing certain words. And while I can vaguely see how someone might want to call Prince a “hypocrite” for changing certain words so as not to be or appear to be “profane,” I agree with the notion that rather than being hypocritical Prince is simply trying to find a way to reconcile his new desire not to be profane with some of his old life/art. That is—how can one keep something of one’s past life when one has a new perception of how life should be lived. If that is being hypocritical, then every person that attempts to grow/mature and be less profane and more virtuous or responsible would be considered a hypocrite. I’m just glad that at age forty-three I don’t think or behave as I did at age twenty-three. If that makes me a hypocrite, then I gladly accept that title.

nope.... wasnt responding to you. just my thoughts and feelings toward a word that may or may not of slipped from P's mouth. I dont think Prince is a hyporite to the jw faith because he might of slipped the F bomb.

I do feel that words can bring life and death and we always should be wise in what we say, to who we say it, and why. Do i use profanity in my daily language? no! Im a grown woman and my words reflect on myself But if i occasionaly let the F bomb slip from my mouth there is no condemnation for me...thats all. And again....these are my thoughts and feelings and no disrespect to yours.

NouveauDance said:

undertheesea said:

Words r just that...w.o.r.d.s. they hold no power. It's the intent behind them.

I agree with that - But Prince doesn't. Changing the word "duck" for "fuck" - the intention and message is exactly the same despite the wordplay.

Again - don't look for sense in Princeworld.

I think it's funnier without swearing words. Case in point: