Most of Prince's songs are fiction.
But this is true with everyone.

Even David Bowie called himself a 'story teller' in his music.


But, Prince shines when his songs are personal (and they aren't often).
Songs like "If I was Ur Girlfriend", "I love you but I don't trust you anymore", and much of what is on Emancipation is personal.


The problem with Prince is like the problem with any artist--how we connect to his stuff. For example, I think most teenagers could connect to "When Doves Cry", but very few could appreciate "Act of God", etc. Stories, be they true or ficitonal, are strengthened when the audience connects with them.

Marrk said:

I've come to realise if Prince was an author he'd strictly write fiction. Most of his songs are not personal, or don't appear to be, they're fantasy and not written from the heart or even about him. Does he have a lot to say? Most of his songs are fluff and not that deep or interesting. We ultimately don't know that much about him through his work, which i think is kind of a shame. Sure he's a great musician and performer, but writer?

Does he write enough from the heart for you, or is this a really big flaw in his game?

Tin hat is on.

[Edited 5/10/13 10:36am]

wtf??

this is some dumb ass shit..you are trollin right?

I pretty much agree- Most of his stuff since the 90s sounds like someone i can't relate to on a human level wrote it.

tricky99 said:

NuPwrSoul said:

I think Prince's songwriting was most interesting when his life was most interesting... when he HAD a personal life with people who put him through the same kind of (e)motions that people in our lives do to us.

He just seems (or at least his songs these days just seem) as if he's incredibly emotionally isolated, disconnected, protective, and closed off. I don't hear the vulnerability, the hurt, the overcoming the fear of rejection, the joy of winning someone's love, etc., that I used to hear in his best songwriting.

I don't know how involved he was in writing Andy Allo's lyrics--but her album contained that kind of songwriting.

These days what I hear from Prince is bullshit triumphalism, braggadocio, and pride. He is entitled for sure...we all need to feel that way sometimes. But without the balance, it just doesn't connect.

This is utter bullshit. Take his last 3 cds and there is a lot more there than just pride and bragging.

There was something that i really liked about the self deprecating Prince of the early days..

These days- would Prince sing a lyric about not being Handsome and Tall like his brother?

or-

"I aint got no money.. I aint like those other guys you hang around"

or -

"I might be small but so is Dynomite"

?????

EMPEROR101 said:

There was something that i really liked about the self deprecating Prince of the early days..

These days- would Prince sing a lyric about not being Handsome and Tall like his brother?

or-

"I aint got no money.. I aint like those other guys you hang around"

or -

"I might be small but so is Dynomite"

?????

I love that stuff

^^^ Me too-

EMPEROR101 said:

I pretty much agree- Most of his stuff since the 90s sounds like someone i can't relate to on a human level wrote it.

*

And while I understand and agree with your right to feel this way, your assertion shows just how subjective all of this is because I clearly relate to a great deal of the songs Prince has written over the past thirteen years. Now, I'm not saying that the songs are great because I relate to them, but I am saying that Marrk seems to be using a personal preference of the perspective from which he likes artists to create as an "objective" measurement of whether or not a song is "deep" or "interesting".

*

Ultimately, I understand that what Marrk and others seek from the “personal” story in lyrics by Prince and similar artists is some greater appreciation of the message being delivered, and I don’t discount the use of the personal. It’s just that for some reason I’ve never needed that personal background to connect with a song. That is—I’ve never been more moved or felt more connected to a work of art if I knew the real-life backstory that inspired the work. Additionally, I think that far too many people are unable to exercise objectivity, which causes them to celebrate a work more for its subject or backstory rather than for how well-crafted the work is. So, Marrk’s denouncing Prince as a writer and asserting that his songs are not “deep” or “interesting” because they lack being filled with Prince’s personal experiences just seems overly myopic in its attempt to make a subjective preference an objective measurement, especially when I have been exposed to so many works of art about personal experiences that suck because they are not well-crafted.

Marrk said:

I've come to realise if Prince was an author he'd strictly write fiction. Most of his songs are not personal, or don't appear to be, they're fantasy and not written from the heart or even about him. Does he have a lot to say? Most of his songs are fluff and not that deep or interesting. We ultimately don't know that much about him through his work, which i think is kind of a shame. Sure he's a great musician and performer, but writer?

Does he write enough from the heart for you, or is this a really big flaw in his game?

Tin hat is on.

[Edited 5/10/13 10:36am]

This is a very odd statement. When you go into Prince's biography you come to realize that most of his songs are VERY personnal, either in terms of personnal experiences or personnal philosophy.

Marrk said:

Militant said:

What is "not personal" about When Doves Cry? Purple Rain? How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore? With You? Gotta Broken Heart Again? The Beautiful Ones? Condition Of The Heart? The Ladder? Strange Relationship? When 2 R In Love? The Question of U? Nothing Compares 2 U? Pink Cashmere? Another Lonely Xmas? The Most Beautiful Girl In The World? Right Back Here In My Arms? Let's Have A Baby? Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife? Last Heart? Goodbye? Comeback? The One? Wasted Kisses? Eye Love U, But Eye Don't Trust U Anymore? A Million Days? The Marrying Kind? On The Couch? Here? Better With Time? Eye Hate U? Somewhere Here On Earth? Forever In My Life?

Those all strike me as "personal" songs that were very clearly inspired by events in his life, or simply his mindstate at the time of writing. They are heartfelt, and sincere.

The way I see it, Prince writes about everything. He is so prolific that so called "personal" songs are simply one facet of many subjects that he writes about.

[Edited 5/10/13 9:41am]

That's quite a list, but do you really believe they're all about him? i could go yes, no or maybe to a fair few of them. A lot of those tell me nothing about him. They're as much story songs as a 'Raspberry Beret'.

Where are his political songs, his world view songs. Songs with meaningful content? 'Condition Of The Heart'? (beautiful song, yes) But it's not about him really is it?

Maybe there's a deeper meaning that i just don't see anymore, i used to see more in his work. Maybe it's my age and i'm jaded. Prince is like a fictional character to me these days.

I don't think i believe in him that much now.

[Edited 5/10/13 10:13am]

Obviously you ain't familiar with Prince's life story and his songs' background. Please go read a few books about him first and then come back on this forum to discuss what you'll have learnt.

1725topp, thanks for some very incisive observations. I have no strong opinions on this, but funnily I did happen to have an internal dialogue a few days ago about the fact that Prince does write quite obtusely compared to some other artists where it's quite explicit that the song is about bereavement or divorce etc.

He's been through alot of life events but he hasn't done anything like, for instance, Kate Bush's 'A Coral Room', or Sam Brown's 'One Candle'. Not explicitly, anyhow, and maybe I've just missed some of the finer lyrical pointers.

It's fair to say he's a private person and that's fine, he expresses what he wishes, in the form that he wishes. I do feel, to agree with the OP to some extent, that the Prince of today is certainly less likely to write such a song than he would have been earlier in his career. The reminiscent tone of 'Reflection' or heartfelt yearning of 'The Dance' are about as close as I think we'll get to a truly personal song that's not hidden behind alot of allegory.

Scotsman1999 said:

1725topp, thanks for some very incisive observations. I have no strong opinions on this, but funnily I did happen to have an internal dialogue a few days ago about the fact that Prince does write quite obtusely compared to some other artists where it's quite explicit that the song is about bereavement or divorce etc.

He's been through alot of life events but he hasn't done anything like, for instance, Kate Bush's 'A Coral Room', or Sam Brown's 'One Candle'. Not explicitly, anyhow, and maybe I've just missed some of the finer lyrical pointers.

It's fair to say he's a private person and that's fine, he expresses what he wishes, in the form that he wishes. I do feel, to agree with the OP to some extent, that the Prince of today is certainly less likely to write such a song than he would have been earlier in his career. The reminiscent tone of 'Reflection' or heartfelt yearning of 'The Dance' are about as close as I think we'll get to a truly personal song that's not hidden behind alot of allegory.

*

Scotsman1999, thanks for the kind words, and I agree with much, if not all, of what you say, especially that Prince tends not to be as explicitly personal as those you cite. My only point to Marrk is that we should not make our own personal preferences for the perspectives from which we like our artists to create an "objective" measurement for whether or not a work is "deep" or "well-crafted." A particular perspective may be more interesting to me, but it being more interesting to me doesn't make it great or well-crafted. So, yes, I agree that one can make the argument that Prince is not as personally forthcoming or open in his work as other writers, but I don't think that, in itself, makes his work poorly crafted or less complex or deep. In fact, I think there are very few artists who discuss or engage the complexity or dichotomy of being human as well as Prince.

Sorry for double post.

[Edited 5/13/13 7:30am]

1. Prince, as you/we know him, is a public persona.

2. He is one of the most personal songwriters of all time. "If I was UR Girlfriend" springs to mind.

3. Name me an artist of Prince's caliber/fame that is more personal in their songwriting.

skywalker said:

1. Prince, as you/we know him, is a public persona.

2. He is one of the most personal songwriters of all time. "If I was UR Girlfriend" springs to mind.

3. Name me an artist of Prince's caliber/fame that is more personal in their songwriting.

Do you think his most recent releases convey the same kind of personal emotion (whether real or imagined)?

skywalker said:

1. Prince, as you/we know him, is a public persona.

2. He is one of the most personal songwriters of all time. "If I was UR Girlfriend" springs to mind.

3. Name me an artist of Prince's caliber/fame that is more personal in their songwriting.

I agree but... Man... U look creepy with that helmet on

http://www.youtube.com/wa...kujmRJ-V9w

[Edited 5/13/13 8:59am]

NuPwrSoul said:

skywalker said:

1. Prince, as you/we know him, is a public persona.

2. He is one of the most personal songwriters of all time. "If I was UR Girlfriend" springs to mind.

3. Name me an artist of Prince's caliber/fame that is more personal in their songwriting.

Do you think his most recent releases convey the same kind of personal emotion (whether real or imagined)?

*

I know that you were asking this question of Skywalker, but I want to answer and pose a counter notion. So, yes, I think that Prince's most recent releases do convey the same type of personal emotion (whether real or imagined), such as "Dreamer," "Colonized Mind," Reflection," and anything from The Rainbow Children, but many of his fans find his latest work inauthentic because his current ideology and messages seem counter to the ideology and messages that caused many of them to gravitate to and love his work. So, it is not the passion or the preachiness that has changed. Prince has always been single-minded and preachy, but it is the perceived new message that he is preaching that rubs so many fans the wrong way, causing them to view his work as lacking passion and personal emotion,.

Prince has contradicted himself so often that it's diluted his message, to the point where nowadays he has virtually no credibility. If he took the witness stand I wouldn't believe a word!

the best anyone could do is give him the benefit of the doubt by saying that we all change as we get older, and he's no different.

Back to the thread, yes I'd agree we all have our own frame of reference for how a 'personal' song should be presented. That doesn't make the art itself any less personal for the artist. It's what keeps debate going on forums such as this.

I'd sure like to know the real background to some of his songs, however.

1725topp said:

NuPwrSoul said:

Do you think his most recent releases convey the same kind of personal emotion (whether real or imagined)?

*

I know that you were asking this question of Skywalker, but I want to answer and pose a counter notion. So, yes, I think that Prince's most recent releases do convey the same type of personal emotion (whether real or imagined), such as "Dreamer," "Colonized Mind," Reflection," and anything from The Rainbow Children, but many of his fans find his latest work inauthentic because his current ideology and messages seem counter to the ideology and messages that caused many of them to gravitate to and love his work. So, it is not the passion or the preachiness that has changed. Prince has always been single-minded and preachy, but it is the perceived new message that he is preaching that rubs so many fans the wrong way, causing them to view his work as lacking passion and personal emotion,.

Thanks for your response... I guess I'm thinking in terms of personal relationships. I like Dreamer & Colonized Mind but I don't consider those songs about personal / emotional relationships. Political/righteous indignation, yes, but not personal emotive type lyrics.

And by recent, I'm referring to the last three releases, i.e., 20Ten, Lotusflower set, & Planet Earth.

NuPwrSoul said:

1725topp said:

*

I know that you were asking this question of Skywalker, but I want to answer and pose a counter notion. So, yes, I think that Prince's most recent releases do convey the same type of personal emotion (whether real or imagined), such as "Dreamer," "Colonized Mind," Reflection," and anything from The Rainbow Children, but many of his fans find his latest work inauthentic because his current ideology and messages seem counter to the ideology and messages that caused many of them to gravitate to and love his work. So, it is not the passion or the preachiness that has changed. Prince has always been single-minded and preachy, but it is the perceived new message that he is preaching that rubs so many fans the wrong way, causing them to view his work as lacking passion and personal emotion,.

Thanks for your response... I guess I'm thinking in terms of personal relationships. I like Dreamer & Colonized Mind but I don't consider those songs about personal / emotional relationships. Political/righteous indignation, yes, but not personal emotive type lyrics.

And by recent, I'm referring to the last three releases, i.e., 20Ten, Lotusflower set, & Planet Earth.

Political stuff does say something about what he cares about, so it does actually add to the portrait of prince. If not very personal, it atleast is personal to some degree. In my opinion if you talk about stuff you're interested in, it does say something about you, doesn't it? Prince talked alot about passionate sex and romance. I'm quite sure it was one of his main interests

NuPwrSoul said:

1725topp said:

*

I know that you were asking this question of Skywalker, but I want to answer and pose a counter notion. So, yes, I think that Prince's most recent releases do convey the same type of personal emotion (whether real or imagined), such as "Dreamer," "Colonized Mind," Reflection," and anything from The Rainbow Children, but many of his fans find his latest work inauthentic because his current ideology and messages seem counter to the ideology and messages that caused many of them to gravitate to and love his work. So, it is not the passion or the preachiness that has changed. Prince has always been single-minded and preachy, but it is the perceived new message that he is preaching that rubs so many fans the wrong way, causing them to view his work as lacking passion and personal emotion,.

Thanks for your response... I guess I'm thinking in terms of personal relationships. I like Dreamer & Colonized Mind but I don't consider those songs about personal / emotional relationships. Political/righteous indignation, yes, but not personal emotive type lyrics.

And by recent, I'm referring to the last three releases, i.e., 20Ten, Lotusflower set, & Planet Earth.

*

Okay, I get what you’re saying--a song based on or inspired by a personal relationship. But, I'll only add that I don't hear political/righteous indignation in either "Dreamer" or "Colonized Mind," but moreso a man expressing his personal views, sorrow, anxiety, and hopes for the world. So, in that case, I consider them very "personal" works because I think he is being honest about his ideas and emotions regarding the subjects. Of course, I don't know or can't prove that he's being honest, but we rarely can prove this about any subject or song. Thus, I tend to find an artist's personal expression regarding politics and religion as, if not more, moving than that artist's expression about a personal relationship simply because I find that more interesting. (I’m not saying it’s objectively/definably better but that it’s more interesting to me.) Also, we tend to learn only after the fact if a song has been inspired by a personal relationship, so I find it difficult to even factor that aspect into the equation of whether or not I like a song more or less because of the backstory or personal inspiration because, again, I am usually exposed to the song before knowing the backstory. And, rarely, have I disliked a song only to like it once I learned the backstory. If it sucked for me initially, the fact that it's about a pertinent personal experience rarely, if ever, causes it to suck less. As a creative writing teacher once said to my class: "No one cares if your sucky poem is about your grandmother. In fact, that sucky poem will cause us to like your grandmother even less." So, only time will reveal if any of the songs on the last three releases are about or were inspired by personal relationships, but I doubt if that information will greatly change how I feel about any of the songs because, again, it's the crafting of the songs that most move me. And to that final notion regarding craft, we can never be sure what percentage of the song is inspired by a personal experience and what percentage of the song has been enhanced or fictionalized for the sake of the art so rarely do we get pure personal experience in any art.

*

And to add with this edit, I can't think of anything more personal or a relationship more personal than one's personal relationship with one's God, which is what's being celebrated in "Future Soul Song": "I hear whispers, but I don't care. This is between me and my [Lord/God]. You can go right on ahead and stare." This seems clearly personal and intensely emotional. Of course, if I have these lyrics wrong, then that may negate my point.

[Edited 5/14/13 10:11am]

NuPwrSoul said:

skywalker said:

1. Prince, as you/we know him, is a public persona.

2. He is one of the most personal songwriters of all time. "If I was UR Girlfriend" springs to mind.

3. Name me an artist of Prince's caliber/fame that is more personal in their songwriting.

Do you think his most recent releases convey the same kind of personal emotion (whether real or imagined)?

For the most part, I do. For example, on 20ten there are some lines in "Future Soul Song" that quite personal.

NuPwrSoul said:

1725topp said:

*

I know that you were asking this question of Skywalker, but I want to answer and pose a counter notion. So, yes, I think that Prince's most recent releases do convey the same type of personal emotion (whether real or imagined), such as "Dreamer," "Colonized Mind," Reflection," and anything from The Rainbow Children, but many of his fans find his latest work inauthentic because his current ideology and messages seem counter to the ideology and messages that caused many of them to gravitate to and love his work. So, it is not the passion or the preachiness that has changed. Prince has always been single-minded and preachy, but it is the perceived new message that he is preaching that rubs so many fans the wrong way, causing them to view his work as lacking passion and personal emotion,.

Thanks for your response... I guess I'm thinking in terms of personal relationships. I like Dreamer & Colonized Mind but I don't consider those songs about personal / emotional relationships. Political/righteous indignation, yes, but not personal emotive type lyrics.

And by recent, I'm referring to the last three releases, i.e., 20Ten, Lotusflower set, & Planet Earth.

Future Baby Mama has two specific instances in which he is definitely singing about someone in particular:

*

"I've heard it said my lovers look alike
Could it be that I was lookin' 4 U?
They were cool but something wasn't right
They had me fooled 4 a minute and then I saw the truth.."

*

"...Yeah, I know U might be fine but I seen it all before
Cinderella was a waste of time then oops, she's out the door
2 build a house 2gether, the thing that matters most
Is under the floor ... a strong foundation that lasts 4ever more..."

[Edited 5/14/13 10:38am]

imago said:

Most of Prince's songs are fiction.
But this is true with everyone.

Even David Bowie called himself a 'story teller' in his music.


But, Prince shines when his songs are personal (and they aren't often).
Songs like "If I was Ur Girlfriend", "I love you but I don't trust you anymore", and much of what is on Emancipation is personal.


The problem with Prince is like the problem with any artist--how we connect to his stuff. For example, I think most teenagers could connect to "When Doves Cry", but very few could appreciate "Act of God", etc. Stories, be they true or ficitonal, are strengthened when the audience connects with them.

That is why Im a fan. Prince has his most profound and successful songs, when he is speaking from the heart. This thread makes no sense. He is definitely one of the most personal song writers in history. This is what makes him an authentic artist.

artist76 said:

I know what you're getting at. I also feel like he doesn't really lay himself bare in his art very much. But he's written so many songs that of course there will be a few dozen that count as personal, or as Id say, "vulnerable." But even the ones people have mentioned, some of them keep a distance between him and the listener with overproduction or too much cleverness. Also, he tends to use third person p.o.v. in some of the songs that we all think/know are about himself, which also creates distance, between the subject matter and himself. Also, he gives some of his most personal and vulnerable material to other singers. I'm thinking Andy Allo, for example - the Calm and Long Gone. It's also telling that in some interview posted about 6 months ago, it said he wanted to add strings and stuff to Long Gone, but Andy wanted to keep it raw. Her decision made it more "personal" or vulnerable (but her voice is not that great - wish he had sung it himself). The closest he's gotten is on The Truth. Haven't listened to it in a long time, but that was my impression. Although even on that Comeback I remember thinking the vocal was a little too overwrought, again I think he's creating distance from the subject matter, and on purpose. I'm thinking his most truly personal stuff in the "vault."

Not lately, but I'd say in his earlier work it seemed more reflective of his personal life and you could tell because Prince sings and performs differently when its personal. Or his latest work is just not as inspired. I liked some of his new releases from earlier this year around the time he released BCW, Girl Thang and Boyfriend. Screwdriver and Rock n Roll Love Affair I could do without, lyrically..... and I agree that he gives some of his best material away to his friends to create distance. I wish he wouldn't do this because this is what makes an artist interesting. I wish he would have kept Long Gone and Shoulda Woulda Coulda (Larry Graham) for himself.

Thanks for the measured replies everyone. Of course Prince has released a helluva lot of songs and i'd agree a lot must be personal to him but unknown to us. We're guessing a lot of the time, you can go by 'The Vault' book and other fans opinions, but really that's all it is, guesswork on how much from his heart and experiences they're from.

Reel off lists of songs all you like, but a good author can create things unconnected to his soul and fool/convince so many people. It's all supposition. Prince is really interesting in this respect. That's what makes him enigmatic. We don't know. If he ever wrote an autobiography, it'd be deep. I don't think we'll ever get one, maybe we will, maybe it's written over the years via song. But which is which? That's why i find him enormously interesting.

This was never disrespectful but merely an interest in his art and thought process.

I'd love him to reveal more one day. His creativity interests me so much, he's constantly had something to say. A lot no doubt non-fictional but so what! his real life experiences too. What's it like to be Prince? What's fact and partial/fiction? What's fiction based on fact? I don't think anyone knows for sure.

Blimey, he's one of the most interesting people going.

[Edited 5/20/13 19:07pm]

Oh there's loads of them. Some are just written so esoterically you'll never know right away. The Come album was a shockingly personal and revealing album for him.

NuPwrSoul said:

But seriously, I'd like to ask you what you find to be the most emotive/personal/introspective songs from 2010, the Lotusflower set, and Planet Earth. Songs that convey: "vulnerability, the hurt, the overcoming the fear of rejection, the joy of winning someone's love."

This is an honest question... maybe you'll help me hear something different or remind me of a song I've forgotten. But don't bother answering if "utter bullshit" is as thoughtful as you are going to be.

I think if you take the chorus out of Lion of Judah then you have a very vunerable song

Sitting all alone in an all white room feeling like the colour blue - A million mistakes and then some I've made with the ones before - Looking for the energy to take you there, the places that you wanna go

Also Better With Time I think is a lovely personal sentiment about somebody from his past that he holds in high esteem

Colonized Mind given his relationship with his parents could be a very personal statement "No respect for authority/A hard time showing love"

Just my 2cents