TrevorAyer said:

hhhhmttpht .. at least read DMSR the book .. that will give you a little bit more insight .. read other books too and articles and what not .. you will get the picture eventually ..

i have read the book. Nothing in it says that practically everything prince did in the 80's was a so called "collaboration". Nothing in it says that wendy and lisa were robbed off songwriting credits in sign o the times. (which they were not)

Nothing in it says that Sign o the times were filled with "revolution" ideas and that Prince was "hoarding" the recording process. What exactly did the revolution write on the album? Did they write If i Was your girlfriend, I could never take the place of your man, Adore, or what? And what sources are there to prove it?

You are simply making things up. How can you claim that sign is an uncredited album? Its beyond absurd. How can you seriously claim that Prince, a guy who wrote numerous great songs on his own, would be a f---in unknown without the revolution?

You are simply jealous of Prince's abilities. If Wendy, Lisa or Andre were such geniuses, they would have written songs like wdc, TBO, purple rain etc in their solo careers. They failed to do so. None of them come anywhere near Prince.

The reason that Prince plays the "hits" is not because he has the "Prince label". It is because he has written numerous hits. The biggest hit of his career was written by him and his signature song (PR) is also his own. Wendy and Lisa, on the other hand, did not crack the charts because they simply weren't good enough. Prince plays these songs in cocnert because he f---in wrote them, not because of any goddamn label.

You are dodging the points i made. If your only "evidence" for your claims is that Prince can no longer make an album as good as Sign, then the Rolling Stones must be thieves too since they can no longer make an album anywhere near Exile on Main St. (They had Mick Taylor working for them back then). Therefore the Stones stole everything from Taylor during their "jamming sessions"

Stevie Wonder can no longer make an album as good as Innervisions, Talking Book etc. Back then he had his ex-wife co writing with him and she helped him with some of his best songs. Plus Jeff Beck created the drum beat to Superstition. Therefore i conclude that he must have stolen everything he did or most of what he did in "jamming sessions" with Beck and others. After all, how else can one explain that his work in the last 20 years comes nowhere near his peak.

No matter how much you deny it, people have proven you wrong on this thread. Prince is one of the all time greats and would have been all time greats without the so called geniuses of the revolution. He is great on his own and the vast majority of his work is his own.

Nobody here agrees with you. Even his ex-bandmembers would laugh at you. Prince was the one who wrote several fantastic songs for other artists (Manic Monday, Dance Electric, Glamorous Life, Nothing compars 2 u etc,). His bandmembers did not write such quality songs, either in their own careers or for other artists. Why? Because none of them even possess 10 percent of the songwriting talent that Prince has. Have a good day.

[Edited 5/11/13 19:22pm]

TrevorAyer said:

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhhmptht .. you still have not addressed the 70 percent body of subpar work created by your genius when rev and co were not around raised in the op topic .. of course your answer is that 100 percent of prince output has been as good as sign and pr all along .. enjoy thinking you are in the majority on this .. you are not .. when p drops a record as good as the pr era all on his own .. i will concede .. till then .. u inhaled too much p fart juice i am afraid .. your denial of reality bodes well for you and the 3 other fans who like 'screwdriver' as much as they like '17 days' .. i think your oncoming aneurysm of hatred would be better served by sticking to threads you generally agree with .. let us pickier fans have our own thread .. ps .. just because you scream louder does not make you even remotely factual .. i am sure your wife feels like she is living in a pr movie .. good luck with that

*

TrevorAyer, the problem is that there is no empirical way to prove either position, but you are asserting that seventy percent of Prince's body of work is subpar because you do not like it and are completely discounting those who do like it. Additionally, if record sales or popularity indicate a well-made record, then Dirty Mind must be considered subpar. Finally, you are completely ignoring or discounting generational factors that contribute to an older artist not being on Top 40 radio or wherever one's work must be to get a high volume of sales. I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that just because you dislike Prince's current output does not mean that others do not like it or that it is subpar. And, when you present it in this manner, all it can do is create uncivil debate. Of course, the OP's thread is an open-ended question, but even in that we each must realize that just because I like something doesn't make it great, and just because I dislike something doesn't make it subpar, especially when there are so many variables that impact whether something sells or not. (For instance, people on this site can disagree with me all they want, but I find most of the studio bootleg work from the eighties not to move me. For twenty years now, most of the time I hear a studio bootleg from the eighties I think, “I see why it wasn’t released.” If others dig it, good for them. It doesn’t impact my love for Prince or my Prince experience in the least bit.) So, the reverse question of this thread is: Do we really think that the people who have been selling more records/units than Prince since 2000 are as good as or better than Prince? And, again, there is no way to answer that question empirically because of all of the variables that lead to those people selling records/units. So, once we realize that the selling of units does not constitute an empirical manner of judging if someone is "good," then we realize that it's all relative and subjective, which means that it is a waste of time to be angry at the artist or those who disagree with us. We like what we like and try our best to commune with those who share our likes and with those who can rationally, objectively, and theoretically provide additional insight to expand our artistic horizons. But if we disagree, then we simply disengage the discussion and continue listening to what we like, personally affirming, which is all that we can do, that the work to which we are listening is “good” or "pleasurable" to us.

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhhmptht .. you still have not addressed the 70 percent body of subpar work created by your genius when rev and co were not around raised in the op topic .. of course your answer is that 100 percent of prince output has been as good as sign and pr all along .. enjoy thinking you are in the majority on this .. you are not .. when p drops a record as good as the pr era all on his own .. i will concede .. till then .. u inhaled too much p fart juice i am afraid .. your denial of reality bodes well for you and the 3 other fans who like 'screwdriver' as much as they like '17 days' .. i think your oncoming aneurysm of hatred would be better served by sticking to threads you generally agree with .. let us pickier fans have our own thread .. ps .. just because you scream louder does not make you even remotely factual .. i am sure your wife feels like she is living in a pr movie .. good luck with that

you are the one who is living in denial. You enjoy thinking you are in the majority, practically everyone on this thread disagrees with you.

I asked you a simple question. Where are your sources? you don't have any.

You claimed Prince would be an unknown without the revolution? Do you realise how much of an idiot you are?The revolution did not write Purple Rain, The Beautiful Ones of When Doves Cry. They are Prince songs. Got it? They don't deserve any credit for songs they had nothing to do with.

I am not screaming louder, i am giving facts here. 99.99 percent of the forum does not believe that everything Prince did in the 80's was stolen. 99.99 percent of the forum does not believe that Sign is a "highly uncredited" album. There has never been any dispute over that album

Sign o the times and Purple Rain are Prince's genius, not the revolution. There is nothing remotely factual about a liar such as yourself. Just because you make up bullshit does not mean its true. No body agrees with your bullshit opinions over here. Your jealousy is evident. You can continue to lie and pretend that Prince stole every damn song from his bandmates but guess what? ITS NOT TRUE.

Until you can prove that sign is a "highly uncredited" album with actual evidence and until you can prove that everything Prince did in the 80s was stolen was his bandmates (which is rubbish anyway because wendy and lisa admitted they did not write Purple rain or wdc or the beautiful ones), then you can talk. Until then shut up. Got it?

I see you ignored my points about Rolling Stones and Stevie Wonder. I used those examples to show how comical your argument really is.

You are wrong. GET OVER IT.

Until Steivie Wonder can create another album as good as Talking Book or Innervisions, i will not believe he wrote most of his 70's output himself. He took everything or most of what he did from writing with his ex wife and jamming with the likes of Jeff Beck

Until The Rolling Stones can create an album as good as Sticky Fingers or Exile on Main St, i will not believe Jagger and Richards wrote most of those songs. They stole most of their music from those albums from jamming with Mick Taylor.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is how bizzare you sound. The arguments you are using against Prince (which you think are actually "logical") can be used vs anyone.

[Edited 5/11/13 22:46pm]

hhhhmmmtpth .. i have referred to the rev era numerous times as a period when prince was surrounded by extremely talented writers and musicians who were also some his childhood friends and some new friends who were at very least honest and true friends .. not hired help .. this base of musicians .. who interchanged at times .. such as dez, wendy, andre, brown mark, morris, vanity and the other rev era musicians, worked on music and collaborated with prince on numerous occasions

so when I say rev i mean (as stated previously) all the musicians from the beginning thru sign, when he discarded most of them. this is the period of influence and collaboration. now even tho prince wrote his biggest hit "kiss" .. it was not a hit and not hit worthy until others put their heart and soul into the song .. and turned it into something sounding more like a prince song than it was in demo form and than it is post recording live, which doesn't sound like the hit it became at all. there was a dispute afterwards with contributers feeling undercredited, even tho there is an 'arrangement' credit given, colaborators felt that was less than accurate.

now you might (and i use the term might lightly) argue that kiss would have been a hit no matter what, that the bluesy demo containing only prince would have shot to number one all by itself, even if purple rain had not happened, and that the future live versions (which have always been horrible) were just as good as the outstanding recorded version and would have been a hit, horns, shelby and all. this arguement of your is simply not reality. believe it all you want if it helps you feel better, but live kiss and demo kiss both suck horribly compared to what prince associates did to the song.

apply that to the whole of prince early career and you will see that the rev, those that surrounded him during those years, made significant contributions to both prince originated song, like kiss, that pushed those songs to be as great as they are, and their own significant bases for songs, such as do me baby, dirty mind, soft n wet, controversy, jungle love etc .. all of which originated from others riffs. and those are just the somewhat "credited" contributions.

many on this thread, even while agreeing with you, also agree that prince is not accurate in giving credit when due. in fact he is lax with his own credit. dmsr (the book that people lie claiming it says nothing about these issues) states that prince would take a contribution to one of his songs that was uncredited, and give co credit on other songs that the rev member did not even work on, to make up for it. essentially not giving credit on a prince song that was worked on, but instead giving credit to say a vanity song or family song to make up for it.

what is fact is that the crediting is a mess, and mostly to keep the image of one man prince band intact, and that many people have expressed frustration about this fact.

furthermore you keep asking for sources .. are you a teacher? (if so i pity your students) or just some crazy homeless dude wondering the streets shouting for people to provide "sources" for everything they say and calling them "idiots" and telling them to shut up.

I know there are a lot of obsessives on this site. I relate to them but do not "collect" the way they do. I will listen to a show a couple times and if it sucks I will delete it. I have read a reasonable amount of prince interviews books etc .. over my 30 years of active fandom .. (not to be mistaken for your real identity "fan dumb") but do not seal all the articles in plastic and file them alphabetically. In other words, I am not writing a college paper, I am not writing a book, I am speaking on valid experience and things I have actually read. If you expect me to pull quotes from several 300 page books and hundreds of articles I have read, you are simply being unreasonable, likely because you don't have anything valid to say yourself.

AS for sign, once again I will state, I read the girls were sad that prince had mixed down or deleted there performances on the songs they had "worked on". Considering prince is known for taking someone elses idea and simply recording it himself, this paints a clear picture that prince took the rev off of some songs that they had indeed contributed to. just as dirty mind was concieved during a jam, and prince went home and recorded all the parts himself save only dr. fink, whose part he just couldn't get quite right.

There is a ton of info about dream factory being a group effort and prince ditching the band and creating what appeared to be more of a solo effort. One can conclude from this info, that many of the songs were worked on as a group, but prince fired everyone and did not want them on the record, so he removed most of the songs they were too prominent on, and mixed them out of the mix or replaced their contribution with his own imitation playing or say .. susanah singing the wendy and lisa parts, to minimize their involvement to the buying public, reasserting he is and was a one man band all along, even tho the rev made significant contributions all along.

without the rev you get stale performances on his decent ideas, such as dance for me, with the rev you get undeniable classics like dirty mind, controversy, do me baby, kiss, 1999 lrc pr ....

there is a huge difference between the songs written and executed during the rev era and post with prince alone. sometimes he still has good ideas but they often sound as mediocre as the kiss demo did. other of his ideas are just plain bad, with noone talented enough around to help him bring his decent ideas to the genius level.

even the dnp era improved from collaboration.

I think it is high time YOU did some reading and prove to me some of your rediculous claims, since you can't seem to have a normal conversation.

there is nothing "subjective" about prince drop off in quality after he fired all his friends. news is no madhouse, npg is no time, bria is not even as good as vanity, rainbow children is not jazz compared to parade, lotus cant touch sign, and 3121 is pure rubbish next to pr. you think otherwise, fine. pretend he got no promotion (he did), pretend he did not have to find loopholes to chart musicology (he did) .. pretent all those who LOVED purple rain would not buy a new prince record if it was as good as PURPLE RAIN, they would!

prince early success was the result of a HUGE team behind making prince the huge star he bacame .. to say he could do it on his own is a joke .. he didn't even write soft and wet by himself, which was the only song on for you that did not suck complete balls thru a straw

as for the claim about .. why dont wendy and lisa have hits, why no bobby z hits, why no rosie gains hits, why no andre hits...

prince and the rev make genius music when they work together .. as individuals they make ok music .. there are songs on condensate and wnl solo work that sound better than prince for sure .. they are still not great but definately better than slogging thru lotus .. my point is not that they wrote prince songs for him ... or your point that prince wrote everything himself .. but that they both acheived greatness working together, and that none of them is half as good without each other.

prince continues to sell more records because of the branding, prince can put out bad records with prince name on them and they will sell .. wnl do not have such a luxery, even tho the music on their records is better than a bad prince record .. its just not even gonna have a chance to sell .. so you cant compare an artist with 10 years of genius all unfairly credited to prince, and how he sells, with the guys from revolution, who barely get mentioned, who are barely allowed to play on the records, even tho they had been touring and writing with prince for years before and after pr success

the negative on prince character is that once this huge team helped him achieve superstardom, he dropped them all like a hot potato .. wtf dude ... apparently it is an effort to prove he can do it all on his own, but all he did was prove otherwise

Hurray 4 TrevorAyer.


Well argumented and thoughtfull posts.

Alltough I have a different taste for Prince songs.

Thank you.

[Edited 5/12/13 6:20am]

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhmmmtpth .. i have referred to the rev era numerous times as a period when prince was surrounded by extremely talented writers and musicians who were also some his childhood friends and some new friends who were at very least honest and true friends .. not hired help .. this base of musicians .. who interchanged at times .. such as dez, wendy, andre, brown mark, morris, vanity and the other rev era musicians, worked on music and collaborated with prince on numerous occasions

so when I say rev i mean (as stated previously) all the musicians from the beginning thru sign, when he discarded most of them. this is the period of influence and collaboration. now even tho prince wrote his biggest hit "kiss" .. it was not a hit and not hit worthy until others put their heart and soul into the song .. and turned it into something sounding more like a prince song than it was in demo form and than it is post recording live, which doesn't sound like the hit it became at all. there was a dispute afterwards with contributers feeling undercredited, even tho there is an 'arrangement' credit given, colaborators felt that was less than accurate.

now you might (and i use the term might lightly) argue that kiss would have been a hit no matter what, that the bluesy demo containing only prince would have shot to number one all by itself, even if purple rain had not happened, and that the future live versions (which have always been horrible) were just as good as the outstanding recorded version and would have been a hit, horns, shelby and all. this arguement of your is simply not reality. believe it all you want if it helps you feel better, but live kiss and demo kiss both suck horribly compared to what prince associates did to the song.

apply that to the whole of prince early career and you will see that the rev, those that surrounded him during those years, made significant contributions to both prince originated song, like kiss, that pushed those songs to be as great as they are, and their own significant bases for songs, such as do me baby, dirty mind, soft n wet, controversy, jungle love etc .. all of which originated from others riffs. and those are just the somewhat "credited" contributions.

many on this thread, even while agreeing with you, also agree that prince is not accurate in giving credit when due. in fact he is lax with his own credit. dmsr (the book that people lie claiming it says nothing about these issues) states that prince would take a contribution to one of his songs that was uncredited, and give co credit on other songs that the rev member did not even work on, to make up for it. essentially not giving credit on a prince song that was worked on, but instead giving credit to say a vanity song or family song to make up for it.

what is fact is that the crediting is a mess, and mostly to keep the image of one man prince band intact, and that many people have expressed frustration about this fact.

furthermore you keep asking for sources .. are you a teacher? (if so i pity your students) or just some crazy homeless dude wondering the streets shouting for people to provide "sources" for everything they say and calling them "idiots" and telling them to shut up.

I know there are a lot of obsessives on this site. I relate to them but do not "collect" the way they do. I will listen to a show a couple times and if it sucks I will delete it. I have read a reasonable amount of prince interviews books etc .. over my 30 years of active fandom .. (not to be mistaken for your real identity "fan dumb") but do not seal all the articles in plastic and file them alphabetically. In other words, I am not writing a college paper, I am not writing a book, I am speaking on valid experience and things I have actually read. If you expect me to pull quotes from several 300 page books and hundreds of articles I have read, you are simply being unreasonable, likely because you don't have anything valid to say yourself.

AS for sign, once again I will state, I read the girls were sad that prince had mixed down or deleted there performances on the songs they had "worked on". Considering prince is known for taking someone elses idea and simply recording it himself, this paints a clear picture that prince took the rev off of some songs that they had indeed contributed to. just as dirty mind was concieved during a jam, and prince went home and recorded all the parts himself save only dr. fink, whose part he just couldn't get quite right.

There is a ton of info about dream factory being a group effort and prince ditching the band and creating what appeared to be more of a solo effort. One can conclude from this info, that many of the songs were worked on as a group, but prince fired everyone and did not want them on the record, so he removed most of the songs they were too prominent on, and mixed them out of the mix or replaced their contribution with his own imitation playing or say .. susanah singing the wendy and lisa parts, to minimize their involvement to the buying public, reasserting he is and was a one man band all along, even tho the rev made significant contributions all along.

without the rev you get stale performances on his decent ideas, such as dance for me, with the rev you get undeniable classics like dirty mind, controversy, do me baby, kiss, 1999 lrc pr ....

there is a huge difference between the songs written and executed during the rev era and post with prince alone. sometimes he still has good ideas but they often sound as mediocre as the kiss demo did. other of his ideas are just plain bad, with noone talented enough around to help him bring his decent ideas to the genius level.

even the dnp era improved from collaboration.

I think it is high time YOU did some reading and prove to me some of your rediculous claims, since you can't seem to have a normal conversation.

there is nothing "subjective" about prince drop off in quality after he fired all his friends. news is no madhouse, npg is no time, bria is not even as good as vanity, rainbow children is not jazz compared to parade, lotus cant touch sign, and 3121 is pure rubbish next to pr. you think otherwise, fine. pretend he got no promotion (he did), pretend he did not have to find loopholes to chart musicology (he did) .. pretent all those who LOVED purple rain would not buy a new prince record if it was as good as PURPLE RAIN, they would!

prince early success was the result of a HUGE team behind making prince the huge star he bacame .. to say he could do it on his own is a joke .. he didn't even write soft and wet by himself, which was the only song on for you that did not suck complete balls thru a straw

as for the claim about .. why dont wendy and lisa have hits, why no bobby z hits, why no rosie gains hits, why no andre hits...

prince and the rev make genius music when they work together .. as individuals they make ok music .. there are songs on condensate and wnl solo work that sound better than prince for sure .. they are still not great but definately better than slogging thru lotus .. my point is not that they wrote prince songs for him ... or your point that prince wrote everything himself .. but that they both acheived greatness working together, and that none of them is half as good without each other.

prince continues to sell more records because of the branding, prince can put out bad records with prince name on them and they will sell .. wnl do not have such a luxery, even tho the music on their records is better than a bad prince record .. its just not even gonna have a chance to sell .. so you cant compare an artist with 10 years of genius all unfairly credited to prince, and how he sells, with the guys from revolution, who barely get mentioned, who are barely allowed to play on the records, even tho they had been touring and writing with prince for years before and after pr success

the negative on prince character is that once this huge team helped him achieve superstardom, he dropped them all like a hot potato .. wtf dude ... apparently it is an effort to prove he can do it all on his own, but all he did was prove otherwise

wendy and lisa mentioned that Prince removed the sitar from Strange relationship. They never claimed to have written anything on that album. You have not provided any evidence that even one song on Sign o the times was uncredited. Not even one.

sign o the times is a Prince record. Three of the songs were co written. That is a fact. The other 13 were Prince songs and none of them co written. You cannot simply decide that "many" of the songs were "collaborations" without any actual evidemce.

Further, you completely ignored my point about Prince writing When Doves Cry on his own, writing The Beautiful Ones on his own. These aren't great songs?

I am not a teacher, but you are the one who made the claim that Sign is "highly uncredited" based on nothing but speculation. Until you can actually prove this, no one is going to believe you

You keep mentioning Purple Rain. Who the f--k wrote the song Purple rain? PRINCE, not wendy and lisa. (and they admitted this). Ditto for The Beautiful Ones and When Doves Cry.

To say that a man who can himself write gems like WDC, TBO, Purple Rain etc would not have made it on his own is a joke. Only an idiot believes this. You mentioned Soft and Wet but surprisingly failed to mention I wanna be your lover, Prince's first major single. Huh? Who wrote that?

Kiss is not Prince's biggest hit. And i agree with you that it would not have been a major hit without the arrangement. However When Doves Cry is Prince's biggest hit. And that SONG IS ALL PRINCE.

Your points about "hits" is comical. Prince continuted to write hit songs for a long time. Wendy and Lisa could not. Andre's biggest career hit was written by Prince (the dance electric). The 10 years of genius was not "unfairly" credited to Prince, he wrote the vast majority of it himself.

To say that Prince couldn't make it on his own (despite all the above songs i listed which he did write on his own) is a joke and shows your jealousy. Prince's success is because of his own ability. Not because of the revolution. He would have been a success, with or without them.

You can continue to ignore the songs i mentioned and pretend that Prince did not write them, but the fact is that he did. Anyone who can write songs as well as the above ones i mentioned would certainly make it on their own. And Jungle Love? Its not even a song on a Prince album. Fool, how does he benefit from it?

You are blinded by your own jealousy. It is entirely evident from your comments about constantly trying to discredit Prince. Anyone who is capable or writing stuff like When you were mine or WDC on his own is certainly more than capable of making it on his own.

I see you completely ignored my post about how your arguments can also be made regarding Stevie Wonder or the Rolling Stones or anyone else for that matter? Its funny how you ran away from that post.

[Edited 5/12/13 6:45am]

dJJ said:

Hurray 4 TrevorAyer.


Well argumented and thoughtfull posts.

Alltough I have a different taste for Prince songs.

Thank you.

[Edited 5/12/13 6:20am]

thanks djj!!

hhhhmmphththt .. no matter how many pages of information and explaination i write, you seem intent to say i did not answer something you proposed .. and it is clear you don't even read what i write .. whatever ..

are you saying that purple rain the movie was written produced and performed solely by prince. did he dress up as all the other characters and play the roles himself, like eddie murphy does in his movies?

are you saying that when doves cry is his biggest hit because it did not have an entire hit movie, produced by a huge team, and not just prince behind it, to promote it as the main single behind the movie?

kiss is by far the bigger hit in that regard. prince does not even play WDC in concert often, kiss is there every tour. more people think of kiss when they think of prince than they do WDC or LETS GO CRAZY .. those are just from the movie so they get more hype .. but they are not the classic songs that kiss is .. even so .. how do yo know some one did not use the phrase "dig if u will" and prince took it and went from there? how do you know all those songs were only written by prince if other songs he supposedly wrote by himself were not .. scandelous is the best thing on batman and the best song of much of his post rev career .. his own dad got gyped out of credits on scandelous .. the only thing you KNOW is that prince does NOT credit properly .. that means anything that says only PRINCE cannot be believed .. we don't know the truth .. we only know what is NOT true .. and what is not TRUE is that prince did it all himself.

without the movie purple rain .. all the collaborations that made that movie so popular .. a song like wdc would not have been as popular as it was .. surely you can see that .. its a good song .. he has better songs that are not as popular .. explain that!

and how about the B-side 17 DAys .. when doves cry is on the record .. why would anybody buy when doves cry the single if they had already bought the record? perhaps it is because of the outstanding REVOLUTION PENNED 17 days B-SIDE that the single sold so well.

hhhhhmmpht .. i have enjoyed the exchange even tho you are kind of a tempermental jerk for the most part .. i do have a mother and other things to do today .. hopefully you are satisfied with the schooling i have (again) provided you at no charge .. please be content that I with others have confidence your are much smarter than your arguing skills would suggest and at this point you are probably just having a bad day .. cya

TrevorAyer said:

dJJ said:

Hurray 4 TrevorAyer.


Well argumented and thoughtfull posts.

Alltough I have a different taste for Prince songs.

Thank you.

[Edited 5/12/13 6:20am]

thanks djj!!

hhhhmmphththt .. no matter how many pages of information and explaination i write, you seem intent to say i did not answer something you proposed .. and it is clear you don't even read what i write .. whatever ..

are you saying that purple rain the movie was written produced and performed solely by prince. did he dress up as all the other characters and play the roles himself, like eddie murphy does in his movies?

are you saying that when doves cry is his biggest hit because it did not have an entire hit movie, produced by a huge team, and not just prince behind it, to promote it as the main single behind the movie?

kiss is by far the bigger hit in that regard. prince does not even play WDC in concert often, kiss is there every tour. more people think of kiss when they think of prince than they do WDC or LETS GO CRAZY .. those are just from the movie so they get more hype .. but they are not the classic songs that kiss is .. even so .. how do yo know some one did not use the phrase "dig if u will" and prince took it and went from there? how do you know all those songs were only written by prince if other songs he supposedly wrote by himself were not .. scandelous is the best thing on batman and the best song of much of his post rev career .. his own dad got gyped out of credits on scandelous .. the only thing you KNOW is that prince does NOT credit properly .. that means anything that says only PRINCE cannot be believed .. we don't know the truth .. we only know what is NOT true .. and what is not TRUE is that prince did it all himself.

without the movie purple rain .. all the collaborations that made that movie so popular .. a song like wdc would not have been as popular as it was .. surely you can see that .. its a good song .. he has better songs that are not as popular .. explain that!

and how about the B-side 17 DAys .. when doves cry is on the record .. why would anybody buy when doves cry the single if they had already bought the record? perhaps it is because of the outstanding REVOLUTION PENNED 17 days B-SIDE that the single sold so well.

hhhhhmmpht .. i have enjoyed the exchange even tho you are kind of a tempermental jerk for the most part .. i do have a mother and other things to do today .. hopefully you are satisfied with the schooling i have (again) provided you at no charge .. please be content that I with others have confidence your are much smarter than your arguing skills would suggest and at this point you are probably just having a bad day .. cya

You have provided no schooling to anyone you idiot. You have been schooled by me and pretty much everyone on this thread. WDC is not popular because of the movie, it is popular because of Prince. Yet because of your stubborness, you refuse to acknowledge it.

WDC is a classic song and certainly more so than Kiss. And yet you are such a liar that now you are claiming that WDC lyrics may have come from someone else. What a moron. Even when credit is due, you will make up a lie "oh he must have taken the lyrics from elsewhere"

You have schooled no one. Your continued insistece that Prince is incapable of making it on his own is a f--kin joke. I listed all the songs that he did write on his own. Funny how you failed to mention Purple rain, which he consistently plays, and which he wrote, not wendy and lisa.

And so what if he didn't produce the movie? He is not a movie writer, a costume designer or a director. He is a musician. Purple rain is a great album and arguably the three best songs on the album are his own.

No matter how you put it, your music is shit. The fact that you once posted your songs and claimed that they are better than Prince's recent work shows how delusional you are. The fact that you claimed a guy who wrote WDC, TBO and Purple Rain himself couldn't make it alone shows further stupidity.

Continue to make your shit music and pretend its better than Prince's. Continue to make up lies about songwriting credits and sign but it does not change reality.

and scandalous is the best song of his post revolution career? Perhaps if you are deaf. Most posters here certainly wouldn't agree with that. Anna Stesia, Pink Cashmere, When eye lay my hands on u, when the lights go down, and god created woman and numerous others are far better songs than scandalous. Then again i am agruing with someone who is clearly deaf and/or mentally ill.

Now you are coming up with the theory than even with songs like WDC, TBO, etc where his ex-bandmates admitted were all PRINCE, you will still insist that they are uncredited. Sheer stupidity

[Edited 5/12/13 7:20am]

[Edited 5/12/13 7:22am]

insert the sound of the "walk don't walk" car horns here .. perfect soundtrack to this thread

TrevorAyer said:

insert the sound of the "walk don't walk" car horns here .. perfect soundtrack to this thread

that's a nice way to dodge the points i made. Even when it is proven that Prince wrote certain songs himself (WDC, TBO, Pr) himself, you will still insist that they may have been collaborations and you will still try to find a way to discredit him.

If that doesn't show incredible stubborness, nothing else does. You can keep repeating your bullshit points but most people will simply look at you and laugh at the sheer stupidity of your arguments. Skywalker owned you, and you ran away. I owned you, and you ran away from the acual points.

Its sad when a failed musician is so jealous of a great one that he has to spend his time discrediting that artist.

[Edited 5/12/13 7:37am]

[Edited 5/12/13 7:39am]

you are making my points for me .. no need for me to make them again .. thanks

i am pretty sure the other people on this thread said they don't agree with me but that my points are valid and at least somewhat accurate ..

ps .. thanks for listening to my music so much .. ur making me feel like i am as popular as prince .. see now i have nothing to be jealous of anymore .. all of a sudden 'screwdriver' is the best prince song ever!! much better than that crappy biggest hit single ever 17 days written by prince shitty band during that era nobody remembers prince for!! gosh you were right all along .. it was just my jealousy that blinded me to prince never ever ever ending genius ..

TrevorAyer said:

you are making my points for me .. no need for me to make them again .. thanks

i am pretty sure the other people on this thread said they don't agree with me but that my points are valid and at least somewhat accurate ..

ps .. thanks for listening to my music so much .. ur making me feel like i am as popular as prince .. see now i have nothing to be jealous of anymore .. all of a sudden 'screwdriver' is the best prince song ever!! much better than that crappy biggest hit single ever 17 days written by prince shitty band during that era nobody remembers prince for!! gosh you were right all along .. it was just my jealousy that blinded me to prince never ever ever ending genius ..

Oh yes, u must be right. After all, a shitty musician like Prince who wrote shiity songs like WDC, TBO, PR would never have been popular or critically acclaimed and would have been an unknown without the revolution. It was revolution genius that made Prince's music good, after all 17 days and Mountains are great songs while WDC, TBO, PR, LRC, When you were Mine, i wanna be your lover are all terrible shitty songs.

Prince's signature song is either 17 days or SISIA, certainly not crap like WDC or PR. When Prince wrote something himself, it turned out to be crap (like TBO, WDC,) etc. But when THE REVOLUTION wrote something, its absolute genius and far better than the crap Prince created.

hhhhdmt said: Oh yes, u must be right.

thank you .. it's about time you admitted that .. now please stop saying i think prince sucks and didn't write good music .. i never said that .. and when you put words in my mouth for me it makes it impossible to bother with your insanity

i am pleased that we both finally agree that i am right .. and thanks again for obsessing over me and my music so much .. it really is quite touching

cya

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhdmt said: Oh yes, u must be right.

thank you .. it's about time you admitted that .. now please stop saying i think prince sucks and didn't write good music .. i never said that .. and when you put words in my mouth for me it makes it impossible to bother with your insanity

i am pleased that we both finally agree that i am right .. and thanks again for obsessing over me and my music so much .. it really is quite touching

cya

nobody put words in your mouth. When you make statements like Prince would be an "unknown" without the revolution, it shows your insanity.

You are not right. You are wrong about everything. Its quite scary that mentally ill people like you are actually allowed in society instead of being locked up in mental institutions where you belong.

CYA.

TrevorAyer said:

and how about the B-side 17 DAys .. when doves cry is on the record .. why would anybody buy when doves cry the single if they had already bought the record? perhaps it is because of the outstanding REVOLUTION PENNED 17 days B-SIDE that the single sold so well.

I'm not sure The Revolution wrote 17 Days. They are credited for it, but as you said in a previous post, Prince sometimes "would take a contribution to one of his songs that was uncredited, and give co credit on other songs that the rev member did not even work on, to make up for it." There's an early piano rehearsal were Prince plays 17 Days by himself.

Your logic "we know that sometimes Prince didn't give credit, therefor members of his band might have gone uncredited on any number of songs" can be turned around. We know that sometimes, quite often actually, Prince gave songwriting credits to people with no involvement in the songwriting process, so therefore we could doubt the credit given to The Revolution for songs such as Computer Blue and Mountains.

I think there's more instances where Prince gave people credit for songs or session work they did not contribute, than there are cases where Prince stole credit.

As for Sign 'O' the Times. The album grew out of the Dream Factory sessions. Dream Factory would have been a band effort, a collaboration. But Prince singled out his solo recordings for inclusion on Sign 'O' the Times. So I think the credits on that album are pretty accurate. There's really no evidence to suggets otherwise.

[Edited 5/12/13 11:13am]

[Edited 5/12/13 14:42pm]

out of the whole of Prince's musical cannon, some of his songs have contributions from others, and some don't. some songs are purely from Prince's mind and others borrow ideas/lyrics/hooks.

Prince is not alone in this way of working. ALMOST EVERY OTHER MUSICIAN DOES THIS.

Example: If Prince has written over 1000 songs then even if 50% use ideas from others, then 500 of his songs are 100% his (words and music). Now let's say look at Michael Jackson's musical cannon...

...well there is no need really is there.

XxAxX said:

SpiritOtter said:

Dear .Org,

It has occurred to me that whilst almost universally championed as a peak period of output, the decade of the 1980s represents less than a third of Prince's entire output. So, whilst we were fortunate to hear significant artistic growth during his earlier years, the reality is that the majority (approximately 70 per cent) of his total recorded output has been almost universally met from a less favourable perspective, both critically and commercially. Of course, we all love Prince, but is it possible - based on reality - that Prince is simply not as good as we think he might be? Of course, we all differ as we grow older, and I by no means equate quality with chart success, but there surely are other means of maintaining a strong successive record of quality recorded output (e.g. The Gold Experience, The Rainbow Children and Lotus Flower), other than via hitmaking (or being financially lucrative as an independent artist).

Spirit

well. let me tell you. once upon a time i, too, came to doubt that prince was as good as i had earlier thought i might be feeling he could be, so i sat down with myself and had a long talk. at the end of the day, prince is more better than i had hoped i ought to be able to say, insofar as his expectations by far exceed my grasp, and, therefore, prince is nothing less than genius compared to the way i had wondered whether he could have been.

Amen!

Militant said:

He's not AS good as we think he is. He's BETTER.

You know when you hype something up for so long, to ridiculous levels, and the majority of the time it can't meet those unrealistic expectations?

Well, me and my best friend saw Prince in Vegas a week ago. The hype levels were simply off the charts. And I'll be damned, His Royal Badness exceeded those expectations........TENFOLD.

That's what he does. That's why we love him.

Amen a 2nd Time!

Graycap23 said:

SpiritOtter said:

Dear .Org,

It has occurred to me that whilst almost universally championed as a peak period of output, the decade of the 1980s represents less than a third of Prince's entire output. So, whilst we were fortunate to hear significant artistic growth during his earlier years, the reality is that the majority (approximately 70 per cent) of his total recorded output has been almost universally met from a less favourable perspective, both critically and commercially. Of course, we all love Prince, but is it possible - based on reality - that Prince is simply not as good as we think he might be? Of course, we all differ as we grow older, and I by no means equate quality with chart success, but there surely are other means of maintaining a strong successive record of quality recorded output (e.g. The Gold Experience, The Rainbow Children and Lotus Flower), other than via hitmaking (or being financially lucrative as an independent artist).

Spirit

Not even close................Prince is the SH*T.

Amen a 3rd Time!