tricky99 said:

jaawwnn said:

Just here to point out that Wendy and Lisa are writing scores for successful (and, in fairness, some unsuccessful) TV shows and Films. In a lot of ways that's a hell of a lot more impressive than a 55 year old man still trying to make pop albums.

I'm no fool, Prince was and is clearly a genius in what he does but lets not get carried away with how we judge success.

Do u really need to pull Prince down to prop up W&L? Great, they have been successful at scoring. I'm happy for them but they had to fit in where they could. Its not like they didn't try to be pop stars. It just didn't work for them. Which is not to say they made bad music. People in general just weren't interested.

I'm sure the guy can take it, sure he wrote When Doves Cry. I'm happy for him but he has to fit in where he can, which is a world where everyone does what he says.

but anyway, i'm going off topic. In answer to the question: I think prince is exactly as good as I think he is, possibly a bit better when he tries hard.

[Edited 5/10/13 9:26am]

and ps skywalker

yes prince rep is that he does it all on his own .. however .. the truth is .. he took ideas from jams and instead of letting those writers perform he just played their part on the recording himself .. that does not mean they did not write it .. and it was a bit selfish of him to do so to boost his appeal as a one man act .. notice his greatest success has been when he let those who wrote the songs appear on the records .. even tho he still limited them .. imagine a whole record recorded with the full band .. probably would have topped his best records .. pr was as close as he got to letting them perform on record .. and it was his best record as a result

sign is highly uncredited and somewhat edited from its original intent due to prince not wanting his collaborators on the record .. i love the record but it lacks a little as a result .. would have loved to hear the soundscape filled out a little more as it was originally intended .. still it was rev ideas with prince hoarding the recording process for himself

hhhhmmpt .. u got a stick up yer butt .. u are a troll cuz u just name call like a bully instead of even trying to discuss the ops original topic .. go play on the "i love the taste of prince farts" thread if you don't want to have an intellectual conversation

the revolution made even prince worst ideas sound great .. just like the beatles could make horrible songs about piggies and yellow submarines sound quite palateable (not that those are my favorite songs) ... i am sure the revolution could have rescued drivel like "graffite bridge" or "dolphin" in a similar fashion .. and I am sure they did rescue a few of prince ideas to make them great and also added a lot of great ideas of their own when not comeing up with fully awesome ideas of their own for prince to work off of .. who wrote "cool"? who wrote "jungle love"? just prince alone? prove it!

and why does the crowd go nuts when he plays these songs instead of his own "genius" songs like laydown (barf) (another collaboration btw) or who is he just strait ripping off with songs like "colonized mind"?

you can prove prince can do it all on his own when he writes and records a new song that stands up to the revolution era .. until then you are simply wrong and prince is simply not that good by himself .. hell even that sandra st vincent chick was pissed that prince just "took" her lyrics during emancipation ...

The arrangement for Kiss was credited. Fool. Why don't you prove that he did not write The beautiful ones or when doves cry on his own? The revolution had nothing to do with those songs.

You are the one who needs to prove that most of his best work was co written by the revolution. Until then, you need to shut up.

TrevorAyer said:

there are quite a few references to the fact that prince does not credit music properly .. people were pissed about kiss .. andre was pissed about do me baby .. john nelson was pissed about scandelous .. now how about you PROVE that prince did write all those self credited songs ALL BY HIMSELF never taking a lyrice, riff, melody, or groove from any of the cats he was jamming, writing and colaborating with all those times ..

i am not an anti groupie .. i am a huge fan of a large chunk of the prince + friends output .. prince lack of properly crediting creates a huge credibility gap .. my assertions based upon historical documentation taken from many interviews and sources and even prince himself are more than justified in comparison

hhhhmmpt .. u got a stick up yer butt .. u are a troll cuz u just name call like a bully instead of even trying to discuss the ops original topic .. go play on the "i love the taste of prince farts" thread if you don't want to have an intellectual conversation

the revolution made even prince worst ideas sound great .. just like the beatles could make horrible songs about piggies and yellow submarines sound quite palateable (not that those are my favorite songs) ... i am sure the revolution could have rescued drivel like "graffite bridge" or "dolphin" in a similar fashion .. and I am sure they did rescue a few of prince ideas to make them great and also added a lot of great ideas of their own when not comeing up with fully awesome ideas of their own for prince to work off of .. who wrote "cool"? who wrote "jungle love"? just prince alone? prove it!

and why does the crowd go nuts when he plays these songs instead of his own "genius" songs like laydown (barf) (another collaboration btw) or who is he just strait ripping off with songs like "colonized mind"?

you can prove prince can do it all on his own when he writes and records a new song that stands up to the revolution era .. until then you are simply wrong and prince is simply not that good by himself .. hell even that sandra st vincent chick was pissed that prince just "took" her lyrics during emancipation ...

you truly are delusional. Even if everything you said was completely and utterly true. What the hell do u want Prince to do about it? Somehow in your crazy head you have come to the conclusion that if Prince didn't come up with every lyric and every riff somehow that discredits his worth as a an all-time great.

Nobody meets that standard. Not the beatles, or stevie or Duke ellington or Sinatra. So what the f**k are you so mad about?

TrevorAyer said:

and ps skywalker

yes prince rep is that he does it all on his own .. however .. the truth is .. he took ideas from jams and instead of letting those writers perform he just played their part on the recording himself .. that does not mean they did not write it .. and it was a bit selfish of him to do so to boost his appeal as a one man act .. notice his greatest success has been when he let those who wrote the songs appear on the records .. even tho he still limited them .. imagine a whole record recorded with the full band .. probably would have topped his best records .. pr was as close as he got to letting them perform on record .. and it was his best record as a result

sign is highly uncredited and somewhat edited from its original intent due to prince not wanting his collaborators on the record .. i love the record but it lacks a little as a result .. would have loved to hear the soundscape filled out a little more as it was originally intended .. still it was rev ideas with prince hoarding the recording process for himself

where is it uncredited you fool? Prove it. The people who actually co wrote songs on sign appear on the record. Wendy and Lisa wrote nothing on that record. Liar.

Prove that most of the songs were written from ideas he took in jams. You cannot. Why? Because you are a liar.

There is nothing intellectual about you. Continuing to make up lies and repeating them won't turn it into the truth. You know lies about prince needing click tracks, lies about Sott songwriting credits and so forth.

[Edited 5/10/13 9:43am]

Even though I am not trying to play referee or anything and even though I disagree with TrevorAyer, I'd like to give him credit for being objective rather than ranting. Again, while I do disagree with his premise, he is correct in citing that many people have claimed that Prince ripped them off. And, while I do love most of what Prince has created since 2000, one of my favorite Prince songs of the past thirteen years is "Colonized Mind," which is a rip off, but I love it still. By the way, "Laydown" is da sh**, and you can't be that far gone to see that? :^) Still, I like that TrevorAyer is simply presenting his ideas rather than insulting Prince and those of us who like Prince’s post 2000 work.

*

Of course, to the topic, I think that Militant, Skywalker, and others have said what I want to say, especially the notion of how "good" Prince is or how good "we" think he is is really relative. But, I've been thinking for years that Prince's greatest strength might be his greatest weakness, which is his diversity. Very few can play as many different styles as Prince. And, during the Eighties, when America and much of the world was embracing fake multiculturalism, Prince's ability to amalgamate many different styles allowed him to attract many different cultures and races of fans. But, after being a member of Housequake.com and Prince.org for a number of years, I realize that my notion of Prince fans being this "tribe" of open-minded rebels is a fantasy, and that a good number of Prince fans are attracted to Prince for one genre of music and seem to wish that he would stop playing the other forms. It seems that not as many fans as I had imagined actually like the full musical spectrum that Prince has always engaged. And so, for Prince, this becomes a problem not just with his hardcore fans but with the casual fans who all want to limit or place Prince in their box. So, in many cases, people are reacting negatively to the genre that Prince is producing as they are reacting negatively to the quality of the work. "Why he got all them damn horns?" "What's up with them background singers?" "When he gonna write some more songs like 'Adore'?" “When he gonna stop playin’ dat rock and get back to the funk and soul?”

*

So, it seems that Prince--as an artist--should have been a niche artist with a niche following for most of his career because his diversity demands so much of people who may not want to be exposed to so many different styles. Yet, a funny thing (Purple Rain) happened on the way to him being a lifelong niche artist, causing him to spend much of his career rebelling against those who desire to make him their piece of clay. Of course, none of what I’ve said has answered the OP’s question, but for my money he's still the baddest mutha on the planet. I'd be bored to death being a fan of less talented and less diverse artists.

1725topp said:

Even though I am not trying to play referee or anything and even though I disagree with TrevorAyer, I'd like to give him credit for being objective rather than ranting. Again, while I do disagree with his premise, he is correct in citing that many people have claimed that Prince ripped them off. And, while I do love most of what Prince has created since 2000, one of my favorite Prince songs of the past thirteen years is "Colonized Mind," which is a rip off, but I love it still. By the way, "Laydown" is da sh**, and you can't be that far gone to see that? :^) Still, I like that TrevorAyer is simply presenting his ideas rather than insulting Prince and those of us who like Prince’s post 2000 work.

*

Of course, to the topic, I think that Militant, Skywalker, and others have said what I want to say, especially the notion of how "good" Prince is or how good "we" think he is is really relative. But, I've been thinking for years that Prince's greatest strength might be his greatest weakness, which is his diversity. Very few can play as many different styles as Prince. And, during the Eighties, when America and much of the world was embracing fake multiculturalism, Prince's ability to amalgamate many different styles allowed him to attract many different cultures and races of fans. But, after being a member of Housequake.com and Prince.org for a number of years, I realize that my notion of Prince fans being this "tribe" of open-minded rebels is a fantasy, and that a good number of Prince fans are attracted to Prince for one genre of music and seem to wish that he would stop playing the other forms. It seems that not as many fans as I had imagined actually like the full musical spectrum that Prince has always engaged. And so, for Prince, this becomes a problem not just with his hardcore fans but with the casual fans who all want to limit or place Prince in their box. So, in many cases, people are reacting negatively to the genre that Prince is producing as they are reacting negatively to the quality of the work. "Why he got all them damn horns?" "What's up with them background singers?" "When he gonna write some more songs like 'Adore'?" “When he gonna stop playin’ dat rock and get back to the funk and soul?”

*

So, it seems that Prince--as an artist--should have been a niche artist with a niche following for most of his career because his diversity demands so much of people who may not want to be exposed to so many different styles. Yet, a funny thing (Purple Rain) happened on the way to him being a lifelong niche artist, causing him to spend much of his career rebelling against those who desire to make him their piece of clay. Of course, none of what I’ve said has answered the OP’s question, but for my money he's still the baddest mutha on the planet. I'd be bored to death being a fan of less talented and less diverse artists.

how is he being objective by claiming that Prince would be an unknown without the revolution? How is it objective to claim that most of his best work was a result of so called "jamming sessions"? He constantly lies, and when he is proven wrong, he runs away or refuses to acknowlegde that he was wrong.

He insults people who happen to like some of Prince's post 2000 work by claiming that people who like his recent work have bad taste. If you have read some of the other threads, he has repeatedly stated this. Nothing objective about it whatsoever.

He could so get it.

Yes. no. maybe.

I'm having a hard time retaining my fandom. Strange days. I need to listen to something great.

jaawwnn said:

Just here to point out that Wendy and Lisa are writing scores for successful (and, in fairness, some unsuccessful) TV shows and Films. In a lot of ways that's a hell of a lot more impressive than a 55 year old man still trying to make pop albums.

I'm no fool, Prince was and is clearly a genius in what he does but lets not get carried away with how we judge success.

Scoring Heroes < Scoring Jack Nicholson/Joker in "Partyman".

One is trivia. One is iconic.

Marrk said:

Yes. no. maybe.

I'm having a hard time retaining my fandom. Strange days. I need to listen to something great.

Then letitgo already. One shouldn't have to try to remain a fan. Either you're a fan or not. Its not a job you can quit anytime without repercussions.

[Edited 5/10/13 10:45am]

tricky99 said:

Marrk said:

Yes. no. maybe.

I'm having a hard time retaining my fandom. Strange days. I need to listen to something great.

Then letitgo already. One shouldn't have to try to remain a fan. Either you're a fan or not. Its not a job you can quit anytime without repercussions.

[Edited 5/10/13 10:45am]

True that. But WTF do i do with all this accumalated Prince stuff?

I can't get them years back man!

A break is required. i might get a fresh perspective, i need one.

TrevorAyer said:

there are quite a few references to the fact that prince does not credit music properly .. people were pissed about kiss .. andre was pissed about do me baby .. john nelson was pissed about scandelous .. now how about you PROVE that prince did write all those self credited songs ALL BY HIMSELF never taking a lyrice, riff, melody, or groove from any of the cats he was jamming, writing and colaborating with all those times ..

No one HAS to prove Prince wrote all of the songs because he legally has copyright credit for it. Meaning, if any of the "cats" he was jamming with had issue (or have issue now) they have grounds to take him to court for millions. That hasn't happened.

*

Ever read about musicians other than Prince? Example: The Beatles were literally ripped apart by people being jeaolous/pissed/resentful about credit for songs, who wrote what, Yoko vs Paul, etc. Part of what you are throwing out there is music business/nastiness. How many times was Michael Jackson taken to court for song writing credit. Ever see footage of MJ beatboxing on the witness stand?

i am not an anti groupie .. i am a huge fan of a large chunk of the prince + friends output .. prince lack of properly crediting creates a huge credibility gap .. my assertions based upon historical documentation taken from many interviews and sources and even prince himself are more than justified in comparison

Post these sources then. We've all read the same books/interviews about Prince that you have. On my Purple Rain dvd I have Wendy and Lisa saying that they did not write Purple Rain, but that "they helped". Great.

the revolution made even prince worst ideas sound great ..

Examples?

just like the beatles could make horrible songs about piggies and yellow submarines sound quite palateable (not that those are my favorite songs)

What? So it was Ringo's playing that made John and Paul's writing tolerable?

... i am sure the revolution could have rescued drivel like "graffite bridge" or "dolphin" in a similar fashion .. and I am sure they did rescue a few of prince ideas to make them great and also added a lot of great ideas

You are sure? Give some examples of this happening. What songs are you referring to?

of their own when not comeing up with fully awesome ideas of their own for prince to work off of .. who wrote "cool"? who wrote "jungle love"? just prince alone? prove it!

Don't have to prove it. Does Jesse Johnson get paid for "Jungle Love"? Why not?

and why does the crowd go nuts when he plays these songs instead of his own "genius" songs like laydown (barf) (another collaboration btw) or who is he just strait ripping off with songs like "colonized mind"?

you can prove prince can do it all on his own when he writes and records a new song that stands up to the revolution era .. until then you are simply wrong and prince is simply not that good by himself .. hell even that sandra st vincent chick was pissed that prince just "took" her lyrics during emancipation ...

Prince's "best" song imo is "When Doves Cry." It is widely regarded as one of the best songs of all time. Please tell me how much did any members of The Revolution have to do with that? Enough said.

[Edited 5/10/13 11:11am]

Marrk said:

tricky99 said:

Then letitgo already. One shouldn't have to try to remain a fan. Either you're a fan or not. Its not a job you can quit anytime without repercussions.

[Edited 5/10/13 10:45am]

True that. But WTF do i do with all this accumalated Prince stuff?

I can't get them years back man!

A break is required. i might get a fresh perspective, i need one.

Start with some q-tips and soap.

Marrk said:

tricky99 said:

Then letitgo already. One shouldn't have to try to remain a fan. Either you're a fan or not. Its not a job you can quit anytime without repercussions.

[Edited 5/10/13 10:45am]

True that. But WTF do i do with all this accumalated Prince stuff?

I can't get them years back man!

A break is required. i might get a fresh perspective, i need one.

Then take a vacation. And if that's not enough just quit. U can sell your stuff or throw it in the trash. It really doesn't matter which. Prince is not on earth for your personal entertainment.

Graycap23 said:

Marrk said:

True that. But WTF do i do with all this accumalated Prince stuff?

I can't get them years back man!

A break is required. i might get a fresh perspective, i need one.

Start with some q-tips and soap.

weak.

tricky99 said:

Marrk said:

True that. But WTF do i do with all this accumalated Prince stuff?

I can't get them years back man!

A break is required. i might get a fresh perspective, i need one.

Then take a vacation. And if that's not enough just quit. U can sell your stuff or throw it in the trash. It really doesn't matter which. Prince is not on earth for your personal entertainment.

Again true. But all the same, he's glad we all don't think as you. He'd be in a pickle with zero fans.

1725topp said:

Of course, to the topic, I think that Militant, Skywalker, and others have said what I want to say, especially the notion of how "good" Prince is or how good "we" think he is is really relative. But, I've been thinking for years that Prince's greatest strength might be his greatest weakness, which is his diversity. Very few can play as many different styles as Prince. And, during the Eighties, when America and much of the world was embracing fake multiculturalism, Prince's ability to amalgamate many different styles allowed him to attract many different cultures and races of fans. But, after being a member of Housequake.com and Prince.org for a number of years, I realize that my notion of Prince fans being this "tribe" of open-minded rebels is a fantasy, and that a good number of Prince fans are attracted to Prince for one genre of music and seem to wish that he would stop playing the other forms. It seems that not as many fans as I had imagined actually like the full musical spectrum that Prince has always engaged.

So true. It actually has harmed Prince's commercial appeal. Think about it: Purple Rain is his commercial zenith. It's because he formed himself in the widest reaching "rock and roll" mold as possible. It's like he took the "Little Red Corvette" formula and put it towards an entire album.

And so, for Prince, this becomes a problem not just with his hardcore fans but with the casual fans who all want to limit or place Prince in their box. So, in many cases, people are reacting negatively to the genre that Prince is producing as they are reacting negatively to the quality of the work. "Why he got all them damn horns?" "What's up with them background singers?" "When he gonna write some more songs like 'Adore'?" “When he gonna stop playin’ dat rock and get back to the funk and soul?”

I teach high school kids just north of Minneapolis. You know what kind of Prince songs they like the best? Songs like "Valentina" "chocolate box" and "Laydown". Prince can fit almost any kind of mold for any audience, but his (and the general) audience is not nearly willing to try out/embrace different styles and genres.

*

Instead, you get a lot of oldtimer syndrome "back in my day Prince music was Prince music." I have been hearing that noise since 1985. Old Prince vs New Prince is the biggest purple myth that there is.

*

So, it seems that Prince--as an artist--should have been a niche artist with a niche following for most of his career because his diversity demands so much of people who may not want to be exposed to so many different styles. Yet, a funny thing (Purple Rain) happened on the way to him being a lifelong niche artist, causing him to spend much of his career rebelling against those who desire to make him their piece of clay.

Purple Rain is EXACTLY when the whole "old Prince vs. new Prince" myth began. Believe it or not, MANY purple faithful that had been part of that intial niche underground purple audience felt alienated after Purple Rain.

Of course, none of what I’ve said has answered the OP’s question, but for my money he's still the baddest mutha on the planet. I'd be bored to death being a fan of less talented and less diverse artists.

[Edited 5/10/13 11:12am]

1725topp said:

Even though I am not trying to play referee or anything and even though I disagree with TrevorAyer, I'd like to give him credit for being objective rather than ranting. Again, while I do disagree with his premise, he is correct in citing that many people have claimed that Prince ripped them off. And, while I do love most of what Prince has created since 2000, one of my favorite Prince songs of the past thirteen years is "Colonized Mind," which is a rip off, but I love it still. By the way, "Laydown" is da sh**, and you can't be that far gone to see that? :^) Still, I like that TrevorAyer is simply presenting his ideas rather than insulting Prince and those of us who like Prince’s post 2000 work.

*

Of course, to the topic, I think that Militant, Skywalker, and others have said what I want to say, especially the notion of how "good" Prince is or how good "we" think he is is really relative. But, I've been thinking for years that Prince's greatest strength might be his greatest weakness, which is his diversity. Very few can play as many different styles as Prince. And, during the Eighties, when America and much of the world was embracing fake multiculturalism, Prince's ability to amalgamate many different styles allowed him to attract many different cultures and races of fans. But, after being a member of Housequake.com and Prince.org for a number of years, I realize that my notion of Prince fans being this "tribe" of open-minded rebels is a fantasy, and that a good number of Prince fans are attracted to Prince for one genre of music and seem to wish that he would stop playing the other forms. It seems that not as many fans as I had imagined actually like the full musical spectrum that Prince has always engaged. And so, for Prince, this becomes a problem not just with his hardcore fans but with the casual fans who all want to limit or place Prince in their box. So, in many cases, people are reacting negatively to the genre that Prince is producing as they are reacting negatively to the quality of the work. "Why he got all them damn horns?" "What's up with them background singers?" "When he gonna write some more songs like 'Adore'?" “When he gonna stop playin’ dat rock and get back to the funk and soul?”

*

So, it seems that Prince--as an artist--should have been a niche artist with a niche following for most of his career because his diversity demands so much of people who may not want to be exposed to so many different styles. Yet, a funny thing (Purple Rain) happened on the way to him being a lifelong niche artist, causing him to spend much of his career rebelling against those who desire to make him their piece of clay. Of course, none of what I’ve said has answered the OP’s question, but for my money he's still the baddest mutha on the planet. I'd be bored to death being a fan of less talented and less diverse artists.

You know I always respect your opinion, and I agree with you on the bolded part of your post. I also agree, that a large, part of Prince's fan base, at times, seem to want him to stay in the Revolution era, as well as in a 'rock' genre, moreso than the funk/r&b/soul/ballads/jazz/latin-flavor music, etc., side of Prince. It's almost like some prefer he banishes the latter from his performances, which is surprising, especially because as you have noted, his music has always been diverse, not allowing himself to be pigeon-holed into one genre of music.

I think if he stayed with the Revolution, he could have possiby pigeon-holed himself, somewhat, music and image-wise. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the days of the Revolution/Purple Rain era like many fans, but I also enjoy(ed) the music of the Sign of the Times and LoveSexy, Musicology, Lotusflower, present eras, and the many band member changes throughout the years, giving us diverse flavors of music. I believe that's what makes him an interesting and surviving musician/artist from his early days to present. So do I think he is as good as 'we' (general fan base) might think? Can't speak for an entire fan base, but on an individual basis, I would say it primarily depends on a fan's tastes in music. He gives a little bit of everything to everyone. So fans get the opportunity to choose which forms of his music they gravitate to best.

On another note, with his focus lately on performing more, rock-flavored music, I wonder with this current band, he;s been touring with, if he/they will be able to attract as large a diverse group of fans in the U.S. to attend his shows, in comparison to when he was performing with the most, recent NPG band members, performing more, diverse forms of music, i.e. r&b/blues/jazz/latin-flavored tunes/ballads/rock/country-pop/pop (including from the Musicology era to present).

I haven't seen a full picture of the demographics of the audience at these West Coast concerts, to have a fair judgement of that or their talent, but I guess that remains to be seen, if he does use this current band to perform on the Billboard Awards. The result of their performance, will be a deterrming factor, in how many fans they could attract to see him perform in future days, as well as, how they will be viewed/judged by various, music critics and media outlets and fans of Prince

[Edited 5/10/13 11:53am]

Marrk said:

tricky99 said:

Then take a vacation. And if that's not enough just quit. U can sell your stuff or throw it in the trash. It really doesn't matter which. Prince is not on earth for your personal entertainment.

Again true. But all the same, he's glad we all don't think as you. He'd be in a pickle with zero fans.

That's the point. I'm a fan. I don't struggle to be one. I'm not upset waiting for prince to impress me. I dig what he did in the past and dig what he is doing in the present.

I've been a fan of many performers. When I stopped enjoying what they did I moved on. I didn't pout about it.

TrevorAyer said:

and ps skywalker

yes prince rep is that he does it all on his own .. however .. the truth is .. he took ideas from jams and instead of letting those writers perform he just played their part on the recording himself .. that does not mean they did not write it .. and it was a bit selfish of him to do so to boost his appeal as a one man act .. notice his greatest success has been when he let those who wrote the songs appear on the records .. even tho he still limited them .. imagine a whole record recorded with the full band .. probably would have topped his best records .. pr was as close as he got to letting them perform on record .. and it was his best record as a result

sign is highly uncredited and somewhat edited from its original intent due to prince not wanting his collaborators on the record .. i love the record but it lacks a little as a result .. would have loved to hear the soundscape filled out a little more as it was originally intended .. still it was rev ideas with prince hoarding the recording process for himself

bullshit. Where is your source that they were revolution ideas? He wasn't hoarding the recording process, he wrote the goddamn songs himself.

skywalker said:

jaawwnn said:

Just here to point out that Wendy and Lisa are writing scores for successful (and, in fairness, some unsuccessful) TV shows and Films. In a lot of ways that's a hell of a lot more impressive than a 55 year old man still trying to make pop albums.

I'm no fool, Prince was and is clearly a genius in what he does but lets not get carried away with how we judge success.

Scoring Heroes < Scoring Jack Nicholson/Joker in "Partyman".

One is trivia. One is iconic.

ah dude.... it's Jack Nicholson's performance that's iconic, not Partyman.

Listen, Prince is my fucking hero for life but that doesn't mean I don't think he has his limitations. I'd love for him to get involved with proper soundtracking but I just don't think he's willing to work with other people in that way, he demands complete control.

Chances are Wendy and Lisa would have made it in some way or another without him, their background being what it is. He gave them a chance to be popstars, which they probably wouldn't have been without him, and that's cool.

SpiritOtter said:

Dear .Org,

It has occurred to me that whilst almost universally championed as a peak period of output, the decade of the 1980s represents less than a third of Prince's entire output. So, whilst we were fortunate to hear significant artistic growth during his earlier years, the reality is that the majority (approximately 70 per cent) of his total recorded output has been almost universally met from a less favourable perspective, both critically and commercially. Of course, we all love Prince, but is it possible - based on reality - that Prince is simply not as good as we think he might be? Of course, we all differ as we grow older, and I by no means equate quality with chart success, but there surely are other means of maintaining a strong successive record of quality recorded output (e.g. The Gold Experience, The Rainbow Children and Lotus Flower), other than via hitmaking (or being financially lucrative as an independent artist).

Spirit

Just my experiences:

Prince @ Werchter = Superb musician, master orchestra conductur with 40.000 people as his private orchestra.



Prince @ NSJF = Absolutely fantastic. Showing what he's made off.


When Prince, his audiance, collegues and technicians are insync and create that vibe; he proves that he is a star.


And sometimes he's less inspired, grumpy or nasty.

Those days he's just as good as it gets.



The revolution era was the most exciting, intense and electryfying, iom.

I do think that the zeitgeist, age and energy were amazingly channeled by Prince and the Revolution.

I strongly disagree that they were just another background band. It's the interaction and group energy that made that era brilliant. There was a mutual influence that made them all perform beyond their individual capability.


Prince is, just like any other human being, influenced by his surroundings.

So, when he is together with inspiring and challenging people, he excells everybody's expectation.

When the people around him don't tickle his soul, his music resembles that.

KeithyT said:

I think he'd be better after guitar lessons.

Only if he uses his own guitar.

SuperSoulFighter said:

Having said that, DJJ, and knowing you like the new stuff such as FixUrLifeUp & I don't and we both saw & liked Prince's 2011 gigs (but not the new 3rdEyeGirl gigs since we're not on that continent), do U think 3rdEye (etc) tickle his soul? Or not? [Edited 5/10/13 14:13pm]

Haven't seen them upclose and personal yet, so I don't know.

I am very subjective when it comes to Prince's output.

I really love That girl thing and Breakfast can wait.

I think Donna can challenge Prince, when she's loose, she's on fire!

She can get wild and might evoke his competitive side to show off his skills too. Which is good.


Ida is very good and he knows he can rely on her. She takes care that he is on solid ground.
She'll catch him when he falls.


Hannah, I'm not sure about. I do love the image of a petite blond behind the drums.

However, sometimes I think she might be to 'light'.

She doesn't come across as fiercely opening up.

Her soul seems to be covered with a solid layer of apropriate adaptive behaviour.
Making sure she is a good girl, so everybody loves her and she can't be blamed.
That layer prevents her to let her raw soul come out and drum accordingly.

She probably is a wonderful person, however I doubt she can tickle P's soul.
I'm convinced that only people who dare to show their true, real and raw soul without hesitation, can really tickle.

But I'm really no expert, so please value my comments in that mode.




I like the vibe of the girls.

The group will go through different stages, as all relationships do.

When they go trough these phases, from fun to fights to fun again, bonding through experiences, than Prince might have a solid core group as his backbone.

He and the girls can invite and add other people as they like, but it would be nice if they grow to be a rock solid formation where everybody feels save and is an environment to grow and go crazy now and then.

So, when Prince his soul (or one of the girls's) get tickled,
they can channel that energy and play it loud.


I don't think 3rdEye is as enigmatic as the revolution.
However, that is comparing apples with oranges, because Prince himself can never be that person he was back then, anymore.

And I hope Hannah can face her true self, and be non apologetic for her dark side. Hope she can let herself go. Being technically good differs from surrendering to the drums.

skywalker said:

No one HAS to prove Prince wrote all of the songs because he legally has copyright credit for it. Meaning, if any of the "cats" he was jamming with had issue (or have issue now) they have grounds to take him to court for millions. That hasn't happened.

Levi Seacer Jr. ???

[Edited 5/10/13 15:23pm]

jaawwnn said:

skywalker said:

Scoring Heroes < Scoring Jack Nicholson/Joker in "Partyman".

One is trivia. One is iconic.

ah dude.... it's Jack Nicholson's performance that's iconic, not Partyman.

The art museum scene? It's both. It's Risky Business...sure you got Tom Cruise in his shades, dress, shirt and undies...but you need Bob Seger's "Old Time Rock N Roll" to make it complete. Let's say Jack had been moving and dancing to Belinda Carlisle or Bobby Brown. It's not the same. It's the two mashed together. That scene would not have been as iconic if they'd have had Danny Elfman score it.

Listen, Prince is my fucking hero for life but that doesn't mean I don't think he has his limitations. I'd love for him to get involved with proper soundtracking but I just don't think he's willing to work with other people in that way, he demands complete control.

Chances are Wendy and Lisa would have made it in some way or another without him, their background being what it is. He gave them a chance to be popstars, which they probably wouldn't have been without him, and that's cool.

Agreed. That said, Prince would have likely been Prince one way or another without Wendylisa.

Bottom line: Believe it or not, Prince is actually underrated.

[Edited 5/10/13 17:19pm]

SuperSoulFighter said:

Having said that, DJJ, and knowing you like the new stuff such as FixUrLifeUp & I don't and we both saw & liked Prince's 2011 gigs (but not the new 3rdEyeGirl gigs since we're not on that continent), do U think 3rdEye (etc) tickle his soul? Or not? [Edited 5/10/13 14:13pm]

What are your toughts about it?