I hear it all the time here on the org how much Denise Matthews (Vanity) meant to Prince and how Purple Rain was all about her. I understand that they were boyfriend/girlfriend and he obviously really liked her, but was he really that much in love with her?

It's been said that he wanted to call her Vagina, but settled on Vanity. Is this how you treat someone you really love? It's known that she was supposed to play the role of Apollonia but why she didn't is in dispute. Some say it's because she was offered a role in The Last Temptation of Christ (Barbara Hershey got the part) , but that never materialized. Others say it's for other reasons.

I like Vanity and think she was star quality, but in interviews at the time she seemed drugged up and stupid. Would Prince like a woman like that...drugged up and stupid? Now she's a preacher or some sort....I don't know, what do you guys think?

(But who loves "If A Girl Answers Don't Hang Up"? Prince acting like Morris is too cool. Or is it Prince acting like Morris acting like Prince?)

Who cares?

SuperSoulFighter said:

I always understood that Vanity didn't do the movie because she felt she didn't get payed enough. And being drugged could be a reason for the breakup.

Ok, let's assume your boyfriend is a big star and he made you the centerpiece of a sexy group and he's making a rock 'n roll movie about your lives. You gonna ask how much you're going to be paid? Not likely.

SuperSoulFighter said:

You never know. She was probably thinking, I'm doing all the work while he's making all the money! I can be a star in my own right! Owen Husney has said that this was the effect Prince had on the people around him. Because he was rising to stardom and did everything himself, they started to believe they could be like that. Morris and Jesse also fell victim to this. But let's see what other org-ers have to say... [Edited 4/25/13 1:27am] [Edited 4/25/13 1:28am]

You make a good point, but what work was she doing? All she did was show up and sing, barely at that. On the 1999 tour she did about a 20 minute set or so and went back to snorting coke or whatever. You can tell she had no work ethic and was just leeching off Prince. Morris and Jesse I'm sure worked very hard at their craft. Jesse even more if he had to play behind the curtains for Vanity then do his own set.

SuperSoulFighter said:

You never know. She was probably thinking, I'm doing all the work while he's making all the money! I can be a star in my own right! Owen Husney has said that this was the effect Prince had on the people around him. Because he was rising to stardom and did everything himself, they started to believe they could be like that. Morris and Jesse also fell victim to this. But let's see what other org-ers have to say... [Edited 4/25/13 1:27am] [Edited 4/25/13 1:28am]

I think, Jesse moreso wanted to lead a band (within Prince's camp) Prince definately should not have let him go.

*

With Morris & Vanity it was Prince's treatment of them that I believe led them to leave.

*

With Morris, once Prince fired Jimmy & Terry everyone noticed he was done with the Time, he finished the PR movie and was gone. Jesse actually led the Time on a few shows before it was totally over.

*

Prince in a 1990 interview denied firing Jimmy & Terry and says (it was Morris band) and he just gave a suggestion. If it was 'really' Morris band he would have had more full band participation, no doubt. the noituloveR members had more involvment with the Time studio than the actual Time.

*

Vanity wasn't a submissive woman, and would challenge Prince as far as his open affairs, that same fire I believe was really inspirational for Prince in working with Vanity.

Prince is narcissistic. He only loves himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

[Edited 4/25/13 6:05am]

ludwig said:

Prince is narcissistic. He only loves himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

[Edited 4/25/13 6:05am]

When Prince sees someone he thinks can assist him in gaining whatever it is at the moment he’s trying to obtain, usually money and publicity, he has someone approach them in person or contact them via email. Usually the person contacted is all, “OMG the artist Prince is interested in me. He knows I’m alive! If I work with him I’ll be set. I’m so lucky! He can make my dreams come true. I can make money with Prince. He can make me an overnight celebrity!” I think Prince knows this is how most people (not all) will respond when he has his people track them down so he just sits back with his hands behind his head listening to “Overnight Celebrity” (well, at least since 2004 I think he’s been listening to this Twista song.) Even when he comes across someone who refuses to go along with him and tells him how they truly feel, he writes a song or songs about them since his ego can’t take rejection.

When he saw Denise Matthews he knew she would be a great asset to his image. He even ran the “If you really love me you will do this for me” game on her. It’s good she wasn’t so drugged up or stupid to go along with his misogynistic idea to name her Vagina but she did want to advance her career and I think she used him just like he was using her.

Yes OP, now she’s a preacher or some sort and Prince is…well, he’s really just the same old Prince. A great musician and a great pretender. No one but Prince knows what kind of woman he likes. I think he likes the ones he thinks can make him lots of money.

Sassey said:

When Prince sees someone he thinks can assist him in gaining whatever it is at the moment he’s trying to obtain, usually money and publicity, he has someone approach them in person or contact them via email. Usually the person contacted is all, “OMG the artist Prince is interested in me. He knows I’m alive! If I work with him I’ll be set. I’m so lucky! He can make my dreams come true. I can make money with Prince. He can make me an overnight celebrity!” I think Prince knows this is how most people (not all) will respond when he has his people track them down so he just sits back with his hands behind his head listening to “Overnight Celebrity” (well, at least since 2004 I think he’s been listening to this Twista song.) Even when he comes across someone who refuses to go along with him and tells him how they truly feel, he writes a song or songs about them since his ego can’t take rejection.

When he saw Denise Matthews he knew she would be a great asset to his image. He even ran the “If you really love me you will do this for me” game on her. It’s good she wasn’t so drugged up or stupid to go along with his misogynistic idea to name her Vagina but she did want to advance her career and I think she used him just like he was using her.

Yes OP, now she’s a preacher or some sort and Prince is…well, he’s really just the same old Prince. A great musician and a great pretender. No one but Prince knows what kind of woman he likes. I think he likes the ones he thinks can make him lots of money.

All of you need to read DMSR. The whole story about him and Vanity is spelled out in the book and Vanity was talking about him in past interviews before she became an evagelist. He ran around on her and she got tired of it and left. I think her use of drugs did not help the situation as Alan Leeds has stated that Vanity was kind of street and that P really likes the good girls. I think he whole reason to get involved was to get the V6 project off the ground and the relationship was the fringe benefit of the project.

Not that I know either Prince or Vanity personally, but I believe Vanity was in addition to her drug use sort of crazy.

I see Vanity more as an important figure of the pre-1999 and 1999 era rather than the Purple Rain era, even though she was initially supposed to play the part that Apollonia got to play.

Most of the songs on Purple Rain are not really about Vanity but were written with either Susan Moonsie or Susannah Melvoin in mind, and the title track refers to more than just one person (including his parents), so no Vanity connection there, either. The Beautiful Ones was written for Susannah, and When Doves Cry, albeit being a late addition to the album, was about his relationship with Susan Moonsie, wasn´t it?

I don´t think that Prince would´ve put up with Vanity´s antics in the long run, with her cocaine addiction and whatnot. Didn´t she have sex with Al Magnoli, too ? She definitely had more stage presence than Apollonia but I´m glad that Apollonia got the part.

novabrkr said:

Not that I know either Prince or Vanity personally, but I believe Vanity was in addition to her drug use sort of crazy.

I was trying to be polite.

I think she's always been batshit crazy, to be honest. She has that "I'm going to stab you in the back if you betray me" look in her eyes - and I'm basically talking about my first crush as I couldn't take my eyes off her when I saw "The Last Dragon" as a young boy.

[Edited 4/25/13 9:59am]

novabrkr said:

I was trying to be polite.

I think she's always been batshit crazy, to be honest - and I'm basically talking about my first crush as I couldn't take my eyes off her when I saw "The Last Dragon" as a young boy.

Sure, she was and still is a very attractive woman, but I agree, she is batshit crazy.

Empress said:

novabrkr said:

I was trying to be polite.

I think she's always been batshit crazy, to be honest - and I'm basically talking about my first crush as I couldn't take my eyes off her when I saw "The Last Dragon" as a young boy.

Sure, she was and still is a very attractive woman, but I agree, she is batshit crazy.

I remember a period between 1999 and Purple rain where Vanity & the Time were becoming huge stars (Particularly in the black community) and Vanity was something like the "Dream poster girl" for every teenaged boy i knew.. It all sorta calmed down once appolonia and her unforgettable Purple Rain breasts scene made her the New ultra Amazing Prince girl.

8up said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

I always understood that Vanity didn't do the movie because she felt she didn't get payed enough. And being drugged could be a reason for the breakup.

Ok, let's assume your boyfriend is a big star and he made you the centerpiece of a sexy group and he's making a rock 'n roll movie about your lives. You gonna ask how much you're going to be paid? Not likely.

Why not?

A girl got to make money for her self, not for her boyfriend.

If she didn't agree with the pay, it's a good thing she didn't do it.

Everybody experiences love in a different way.

I don't know how Prince his experiences with his different loves are.

And how he (and the girls) look back at their affairs.

Vanity was hot. She wasn't famous for her musical or other skills.

I hope he has always loved and was loved in return passionately.

I thought about that and well, can't "hope" cause it's over, how can I say then?

HOPE refers to future, am I right or wrong?

[Edited 4/25/13 15:38pm]

Don't know but don't really get that impression. However, Susannah definitely was a serious love interest, he was engaged to her and wrote loads of love songs based on their relationship.

I have a question... Did Vanity 6 ever play any gigs at 1st Ave?

I think he did love her . Take a look at all the women whom he dated after her. They all resembled her and he kept in touch with her years later, and he doesn't even do that with Mayte .

kae510 said:

I think he did love her . Take a look at all the women whom he dated after her. They all resembled her and he kept in touch with her years later, and he doesn't even do that with Mayte .

I have no record of it, but they did play the world

there were some shows in Minneapolis they did with Prince / the Time, though

SuperSoulFighter said:

I always understood that Vanity didn't do the movie because she felt she didn't get payed enough. And being drugged could be a reason for the breakup.

I also think that she resented the fact that Prince had several women in his life,at that time."I needed one person to love me.Prince needed more",she told People magazine in 1984.

OldFriends4Sale said:

kae510 said:

I think he did love her . Take a look at all the women whom he dated after her. They all resembled her and he kept in touch with her years later, and he doesn't even do that with Mayte .

I have no record of it, but they did play the world

there were some shows in Minneapolis they did with Prince / the Time, though

Is this the right post?

SoulAlive said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

I always understood that Vanity didn't do the movie because she felt she didn't get payed enough. And being drugged could be a reason for the breakup.

I also think that she resented the fact that Prince had several women in his life,at that time."I needed one person to love me.Prince needed more",she told People magazine in 1984.

8up said:

I hear it all the time here on the org how much Denise Matthews (Vanity) meant to Prince and how Purple Rain was all about her. I understand that they were boyfriend/girlfriend and he obviously really liked her, but was he really that much in love with her?

It's been said that he wanted to call her Vagina, but settled on Vanity. Is this how you treat someone you really love? It's known that she was supposed to play the role of Apollonia but why she didn't is in dispute. Some say it's because she was offered a role in The Last Temptation of Christ (Barbara Hershey got the part) , but that never materialized. Others say it's for other reasons.

I like Vanity and think she was star quality, but in interviews at the time she seemed drugged up and stupid. Would Prince like a woman like that...drugged up and stupid? Now she's a preacher or some sort....I don't know, what do you guys think?

(But who loves "If A Girl Answers Don't Hang Up"? Prince acting like Morris is too cool. Or is it Prince acting like Morris acting like Prince?)

Who cares?

Narcissistic is Prince...The reason he wanted to call Vanity Vagina in my eyes is because he wanted to "one-up" her...a classic narcissistic move.