skywalker said:

Is this how it is for other musicians? Do Bob Dylan or James Brown or Michael Jackson or Madonna or U2 fans define/decide "classic" eras?

I think it does, some people an era is longer.

I think it depends on the type of entertainer

For example Janet Jackson Rhythm Nation, everthing was focused on the statement of that project, from the style, clothing, dances, videos, tour... it wasn't a Hit n Run tour it was focused

*

Same with Michael Jackson & Madonna

*

the all had very defined periods that had were like what I call mini-sub cultures

RodeoSchro said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

20Ten is classic?

LOL, like I said - some periods are more classic that others. I didn't say albums were classic, LOL.

lol but what would be classic about the Era? There was nothing happening with the album:videos, tour, shows, etc
I'm not saying the album wasn't good, I like the album

skywalker said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

*

True, but that was the period that made him a superstar, Once PR hit people who became fans or where interested in him discovered his music prior to that if they were not already familiar.

You asked they hypothetical: If Prince's debut album would have been one of his 90's albums, would he still be appreciated as he is now? I was stating, as it was, Prince wasn't even appreciated or viewed as the genius he is until his 6th album anyways.

♥

Actually it was VioletBlue post #94 lol I was just replying according to her hypothetical.

I wouldn't say he wasn't seen as a musical genius, I think that is how he got his contract, they compared him to Stevie Wonder who was considered a genuis(?)

*

Meaning, in your hypothetical, why would his 90's debut album need to launch him into superstar/genius status? It took him a bit to get there in reality.

What in life is ever as "classic" to you now as when you were younger/a teen/a child? Call of Duty is likely a much better video game than Frogger, but it will never be more "classic" than Frogger.

♥

True, which is why I question how can someone say Musicology be a classic period or 20Ten

It's not about comparing albums, or saying later work isn't good. I think a few people have joined the discussion with that arguement in mind. But it's not about whether or not an album hit the top 5 on the charts or had mass appeal. It's about time periods

But I consider the Legend of Zelda classic too along with Pac Man lol

* In regards to Prince eras: Yes, from 2004 until 2012 there was not a lot of distinction in Prince's look/sound/concerts/etc. It wasn't until 3rdeyegirl that I think we actually got into a new era.

♥

I agree, actually you could go back to ONA,

At times I looked like things were about to change but

he just feel back into the same

That's 1 reason I say Rainbow Children could have been a pretty wild and exciting period

if he worked that album project. He had a lot to say about this album defining him in some 2004-2006 interviews, but he didn't do anything with it. side note:the picture of him on the album, isn't it from the Rave period?

*

Conversely, as I have said before, 1978-2003 was like a new era damn near every year. The 90's were nearly as diverse as the 80's. We Prince fans cannot even really agree/define these eras...how can we decide are "classic"

♥

lol yes very diverse

but the 1980's was classic lol

Maybe there are some other terms to describe

other periods, like when his WB battles began and the slave thing

took, as well as the name change, It was an era, not classic in the terms of what

we are talking about, but it was a period. Dark period? something...

1986 must have a special place in Prince's heart, it must be a classic era for him, because in the last 4-6 years he's been featuring Parade era stuff from like the LotusFlower site and using the 1986 period to compare the excitement, pictures of the Revolution members from Parade photos, even up to recently with the 3rd Eye Girl using images from that Parade album collage

Totally agree. However, does that make it "classic" to the rest of the world?

♥

Remember it's about Prince fans, not the world.

Overall the most casual passerby will acknowledge Prince as being

very talented.

But it must mean something to Prince, which matters, something I would

like to hear him talk about. And it is classic to a lot of Prince fans

skywalker said:

I hear you. For me, the 80's is just as segmented as you are suggesting the 90's were. There was definitely a pre Wendy and Lisa Prince. And a post Wendy and Lisa Prince. All with in that 1978-1988/9 era. The sounds/styles/messages were not all seamlessly connected.

♥

I think one thing about the 1980s to me was some kind of continuation happening, hard to explain, but after that, how Prince was releasing music and why had changed. A lot of times the tour came before the album was released or by the time the album came out Prince was done with it. It was just a very weird time following Prince, because the WB battles in my opinion had to be very distracting. He didn't have that in the 1980's

Also I will say that even after Wendy Lisa BrownM and Bobby Z left, the SOTT album was still music created with the Revolution and during that period(Dream Factory) even a lot of the Black album was recorded starting inthe Dream Factory years

The look in SOTT & Lovesexy you can see in the PR-Parade look as well as some previous looks, I have tons of images of clothing that Prince or the band wore in the SOTT/Lovesexy period that was recycled from previous periods. In the SOTT years, they had the paisley print speakers/sound equipment from the Parade years.

Not being a stickler on this but over all the look of the 1990s outside of ruffled shirts worn(not counting Graffiti Bridge) and the music was very different.

example:he takes the suite from Parade era and puts a ruffled shirt underneath it for Parade

To me, what makes the 80's era so special and what ties it together IS how fragmented it is. There is no one thing running through it other than originality. He was a new voice. A daring and incredibly funky new voice that consistently brought something new to his game for an entire decade.

1999 does not define 80's Prince as some would argue, just as Purple Rain does not define it, they are very different. Dirty Mind does not define it, Parade definitely does not define it, ATWIAD does not define it. Madhouse, The Time and Vanity does not define it, it was a hodgepodge of styles with only the delicious heavy overbearing essence of ONE man as the thing that tied it together.

You can go album to album through his 80's work and you would be hard pressed to find anything other than the essence of the man to tie it together.
On the flip side, we can listen to his 90's albums, and by now clearly see how his sound started to congeal into one homogenized brick of a sound. There was nothing new anymore. To me this sound became tedious and painful to listen to, with other than the few rare gems that break the mold, 7, his work on The Truth, some of the work on Come like "Solo" The 90's sound was the complete opposite of what made him great in the first place.

Sure it's all subjective and many find a lot of joy in more traditional or homogenized sounding Prince music, but I do not think that is what made him stand out above the crowd, what made him "A great" vs just another great musician.


I do not know how to quantify what makes the music of the 90's different than the 80's, but one thing that comes to mind is a concerted effort by Prince to be more commercial. The 80's was unbridled, it could just be the youthfulness that comes through, the difference between a man in his 20's to a man in this 30's, but whatever it is, there is a difference.

One era does stand out from another, one era is full of the innovation that made him "The Great" as he is known today, the 90's completely lacked it. There really is no doubt that the 80's is THE one and only Classic era....so far.

[Edited 4/30/13 10:49am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

RodeoSchro said:

LOL, like I said - some periods are more classic that others. I didn't say albums were classic, LOL.

lol but what would be classic about the Era? There was nothing happening with the album:videos, tour, shows, etc
I'm not saying the album wasn't good, I like the album

OK, define what the "era" would be that includes "20Ten" and then I'll tell you what I think was classic about it.

RodeoSchro said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

lol but what would be classic about the Era? There was nothing happening with the album:videos, tour, shows, etc
I'm not saying the album wasn't good, I like the album

OK, define what the "era" would be that includes "20Ten" and then I'll tell you what I think was classic about it.

Just the other day I had some projects to work on and decided to listen to some prince cd's i'd clung to still in hopes of making a digestable modern era prince mixtape .. I gave 3121, planet earth, and the 3 cds of lotusflower a final spin. I will say, of all the songs I thought of maybe keeping, they all found ways to annoy me. I was surprised to find of the 5 disks, Bria's perked my ears more often than the others. All of which left me feeling like I just drank some nasty syrupy soda and now I could feel the sugars eating my teeth and stomach lines. I will also repeat that I prefer NPS to most of the post name change catalog. It has far better material and delivery than the rest of his later catalog. There is no doubt to me that at one time prince would ask himself .. "did i just top purple rain?" .. then he would playback 'if eye was ur girlfriend" and say to himself .. why yes .. yes i just did .. or at least equalled it. To me there is a clear distinction between music that prince once cared about and wanted to top himself with, and music he just couldn't give a crap about. And for the most part everything prince does now is copying a template of a song he previously produced that was in fact great. There is not out doing himself or everyone else anymore. The motives seem more egocentric, almost like it is solely for the groupies, to lure them in, with his riches and sexcapades, but not with his poetry or honesty anymore. I don't think he is trying to ride trends to sell more .. I think his self inflated ego thinks he is proving that he can do all these different genres, with diminishing returns. He will play the hits when he needs money, and record a record to make himself feel cool, but not because wants to make great art anymore. In conclusion .. yes I think prince was fair in comparing Bria to Sade, in his world her album was way better than his own music and there fore qualified as Sade level. Brias album is better than prince albums .. but she is not Sade, and prince is not prince anymore either .. he is more like a mediocre american idol contestant at this point.

OldFriends4Sale said:

skywalker said:

I hear you. For me, the 80's is just as segmented as you are suggesting the 90's were. There was definitely a pre Wendy and Lisa Prince. And a post Wendy and Lisa Prince. All with in that 1978-1988/9 era. The sounds/styles/messages were not all seamlessly connected.

♥

I think one thing about the 1980s to me was some kind of continuation happening, hard to explain, but after that, how Prince was releasing music and why had changed. A lot of times the tour came before the album was released or by the time the album came out Prince was done with it. It was just a very weird time following Prince, because the WB battles in my opinion had to be very distracting. He didn't have that in the 1980's

Also I will say that even after Wendy Lisa BrownM and Bobby Z left, the SOTT album was still music created with the Revolution and during that period(Dream Factory) even a lot of the Black album was recorded starting inthe Dream Factory years

The look in SOTT & Lovesexy you can see in the PR-Parade look as well as some previous looks, I have tons of images of clothing that Prince or the band wore in the SOTT/Lovesexy period that was recycled from previous periods. In the SOTT years, they had the paisley print speakers/sound equipment from the Parade years.

Not being a stickler on this but over all the look of the 1990s outside of ruffled shirts worn(not counting Graffiti Bridge) and the music was very different.

example:he takes the suite from Parade era and puts a ruffled shirt underneath it for Parade

Was it though? Highwaisted pants, big shoulder pads, bold patterns, and fat neckties, etc. carried him deep into the 90's. It just evolved organically from the 80's styles you described. Check it out:

[img:$uid]http://i563.pho.../img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i563.pho.../img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i563.pho.../img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i563.pho.../img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i563.pho.../img:$uid]

[Edited 4/30/13 11:43am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

RodeoSchro said:

OK, define what the "era" would be that includes "20Ten" and then I'll tell you what I think was classic about it.

* an album only released in a part of Europe that white outfit with the painting of Prince on the 20Ten cover a couple of live performances of 1 or 2 songs no videos no promotion no singles

Wasn't 20ten part of the entire Welcome 2 (fill in city/state/county) era? Like when Prince did legendary residency's in NY and LA?

skywalker said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

* an album only released in a part of Europe that white outfit with the painting of Prince on the 20Ten cover a couple of live performances of 1 or 2 songs no videos no promotion no singles

Wasn't 20ten part of the entire Welcome 2 (fill in city/state/county) era? Like when Prince did legendary residency's in NY and LA?

*

They had nothing to do with each other, Welcome 2 wasn't to Promote the album, the album wasn't officially released around the world. (anyone who got it outside of the official way Prince released it got it in a way he would be displeased)

*

He did Sticky Like Glue and 1 or 2 other songs a few times, but overall stuck with the Hits & Covers

skywalker said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

♥

I think one thing about the 1980s to me was some kind of continuation happening, hard to explain, but after that, how Prince was releasing music and why had changed. A lot of times the tour came before the album was released or by the time the album came out Prince was done with it. It was just a very weird time following Prince, because the WB battles in my opinion had to be very distracting. He didn't have that in the 1980's

Also I will say that even after Wendy Lisa BrownM and Bobby Z left, the SOTT album was still music created with the Revolution and during that period(Dream Factory) even a lot of the Black album was recorded starting inthe Dream Factory years

The look in SOTT & Lovesexy you can see in the PR-Parade look as well as some previous looks, I have tons of images of clothing that Prince or the band wore in the SOTT/Lovesexy period that was recycled from previous periods. In the SOTT years, they had the paisley print speakers/sound equipment from the Parade years.

Not being a stickler on this but over all the look of the 1990s outside of ruffled shirts worn(not counting Graffiti Bridge) and the music was very different.

example:he takes the suite from Parade era and puts a ruffled shirt underneath it for Parade

Was it though? Highwaisted pants, big shoulder pads, bold patterns, and fat neckties, etc. carried him deep into the 90's. It just evolved organically from the 80's styles you described. Check it out:

I don't know if that is deep intothe 1990s more like early 1990s

But the look doesn't really connect with the 1980s look, it is distinctly 1990s

OldFriends4Sale said:

skywalker said:

Was it though? Highwaisted pants, big shoulder pads, bold patterns, and fat neckties, etc. carried him deep into the 90's. It just evolved organically from the 80's styles you described. Check it out:

I don't know if that is deep intothe 1990s more like early 1990s

But the look doesn't really connect with the 1980s look, it is distinctly 1990s

You say distinctly 90's, yet there he is in 1988 wearing that look.

*

The highwaisted pants/shoulderpads, neckties and big chunky patterns all started showing up with Prince in 1987 and really took hold in 1988. You yourself posted a picture of lovesexy era Prince fashion connecting to Parade and earlier. As I said, it evolved and carried on.

*

Dude wore those high waisted matador type of pants all the way to 1996. Check out Oprah "if I was your girlfriend/do me, baby" performance.

[Edited 4/30/13 12:28pm]

skywalker said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't know if that is deep intothe 1990s more like early 1990s

But the look doesn't really connect with the 1980s look, it is distinctly 1990s

You say distinctly 90's, yet there he is in 1988 wearing that look.

*

The highwaisted pants/shoulderpads, neckties and big chunky patterns all started showing up with Prince in 1987 and really took hold in 1988. You yourself posted a picture of lovesexy era Prince fashion connecting to Parade and earlier. As I said, it evolved and carried on.

*

Dude wore those high waisted matador type of pants all the way to 1996. Check out Oprah "if I was your girlfriend/do me, baby" performance.

[Edited 4/30/13 12:28pm]

just the pants, I don't think it defines the 1980s, now if he had the bottons from hip to heel then yeah

*

Yes of course things evolved. But the Lovesexy look is not 1990s. That D&P-Lovesymbol-Come look is very uniquely 1990s, the Gold look, Emancipation

*

outside of Prince wearing ruffled shirts sometimes, trench coats and overall what I see as the early 1990's -mid 90's look stand on it's own. same with the 2000s which as we said before had a very same look throught that whole 10 years.

*
I mean he still wears his style of heels, I dont think I would say its a visual connection to another period. Wearing a necktie that has no visual Prince touch is just a necktie, he still wears neckties

OldFriends4Sale said:

* an album only released in a part of Europe that white outfit with the painting of Prince on the 20Ten cover a couple of live performances of 1 or 2 songs no videos no promotion no singles

I don't consider that an era. That's just an album. An "era", to me, is an extended period of time.

If I had to, I'd put "20Ten" in the 2006 - 2010 era, which I'd call the "Pop/Experimental Promotion Era". Plenty of classic tunes in this era, IMO.

[Edited 5/1/13 7:54am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

just the pants, I don't think it defines the 1980s, now if he had the bottons from hip to heel then yeah

Sure, but the lovesexy 1988 outfit I posted and that 1992 outfit (yellow blouse/blue trousers) are super similar.

*

Yes of course things evolved. But the Lovesexy look is not 1990s. That D&P-Lovesymbol-Come look is very uniquely 1990s, the Gold look, Emancipation

The D&P Come Look is all evolved and similar from 1987/88. Susan Rogers has been quoted about how, after Prince and the Revolution/Susannah split, Prince changed clothing styles. The SOTT/Lovesexy look is it. It continued up to about 1993/94 when he changed his name.

*

outside of Prince wearing ruffled shirts sometimes, trench coats and overall what I see as the early 1990's -mid 90's look stand on it's own. same with the 2000s which as we said before had a very same look throught that whole 10 years.

*
I mean he still wears his style of heels, I dont think I would say its a visual connection to another period. Wearing a necktie that has no visual Prince touch is just a necktie, he still wears neckties

Again, look at the photos I posted. It's as same-ish from 1988 onwards.

For me it's 1978-1995. 1978 is the year of his debut album and the first of many classic singles, (Soft and Wet) and 1995 is the year he released his last classic album. (The Gold Experience) He recorded and/or released classic albums and/or singles in EVERY one of those years IMO.

herb4 said:

paisleypark4 said:

Wasnt nothing like

The Work

Dance 4 Me

Lavaux

Everlasting Now

Breakfast Can WAit

No Candy 4 U

Valentina

Black Sweat

Lolita

Get On The Boat

1+1+1=3

Chelsea Rogers

or even Y Should I Do That When I Can Do This

in the 90s child

Face Down

My Name is Prince

Gett Off

Days of Wild

Sexy MF

Return of the Bump Squad

Big Fun

The Exodus Has Begun

The Max

Now

Billy Jack Bitch

Calhoun Square

P Control

18 & Over

Get Wild

Let It Go

Come

Daddy Pop

Come On

We Can Funk

You said there was no funk in the 90's. Not true.

But alot of those songs contained elements of New Jack Swing and Hip Hop, especially Face Down, Days Of Wild, Now, 18 & over P Control and Bump Squad...I just can't consider those funky...they are good, but more so hip hop than anything. I did like all those songs above but it wasnt the mpls r&b synth funk Prince is known for, now he is back at it. None of those tunes even sound anything like Black Sweat, or Lolita for that matter.

Now We Can Funk is a whole different story however..since it was based off the 1983 version that song is dayyyym funkeh "Im scaared...cuz if i dont kiss u Im gonna go mad baby..take off my clothes..." yaas

NowhereMan said:

For me it's 1978-1995. 1978 is the year of his debut album and the first of many classic singles, (Soft and Wet) and 1995 is the year he released his last classic album. (The Gold Experience) He recorded and/or released classic albums and/or singles in EVERY one of those years IMO.

Basically the Warner Brother years...

OldFriends4Sale said:

NowhereMan said:

For me it's 1978-1995. 1978 is the year of his debut album and the first of many classic singles, (Soft and Wet) and 1995 is the year he released his last classic album. (The Gold Experience) He recorded and/or released classic albums and/or singles in EVERY one of those years IMO.

Basically the Warner Brother years...

Again, I wonder how much of this has to do with presentation. WB (by in large) promoted Prince way better than he promoted himself afterwards.

*

Too bad, because I think post 1995 Prince has a lot of stellar material that just got mishandled/ignored/not promoted....

[Edited 5/2/13 8:53am]

skywalker said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Basically the Warner Brother years...

Again, I wonder how much of this has to do with presentation. WB (by in large) promoted Prince way better than he promoted himself afterwards.

*

Too bad, because I think post 1995 Prince has a lot of stellar material that just got mishandled/ignored/not promoted....

[Edited 5/2/13 8:53am]

Yes, I agree

I bought everything up to lotus .. got 2010 for free .. no promotion needed .. had they been on warner the music would not be anybetter .. i love the vault .. there is good stuff on come .. gold is horrible .. wb did their job promoting .. but they also provided him with the funds to work with better talent .. and more importantly .. the funds to surround himself with friends and other musical peers who could influence prince in a positive way musically .. promo the hell out of 2010 .. hell .. give it away free with the sunday newspaper .. still nobody gonna buy it or like it .. promo has nothing to do with it at this point .. its about having lyrics people can connect to ... weather its woompin gangnam style mindless simplicity .. poetry ala dig if u will the picture .. or something deeper like sign or money don't matter .. the lyrics need to connect .. prince lyrics just do not connect anymore ... beautiful girl connected .. now how about dolphin .. i am still scratching my head over what the hell that one is about .. now lets talk about valentina, 2y2d, lolita and u don't have to wonder long why prince career is in the toilet .. ps prince .. she aint 2 young 2 dare .. ur just 2 old (and creepy) 2 screw (see what i did there)

TrevorAyer said:

I bought everything up to lotus .. got 2010 for free .. no promotion needed .. had they been on warner the music would not be anybetter .. i love the vault .. there is good stuff on come .. gold is horrible .. wb did their job promoting .. but they also provided him with the funds to work with better talent .. and more importantly .. the funds to surround himself with friends and other musical peers who could influence prince in a positive way musically .. promo the hell out of 2010 .. hell .. give it away free with the sunday newspaper .. still nobody gonna buy it or like it .. promo has nothing to do with it at this point .. its about having lyrics people can connect to ... weather its woompin gangnam style mindless simplicity .. poetry ala dig if u will the picture .. or something deeper like sign or money don't matter .. the lyrics need to connect .. prince lyrics just do not connect anymore ... beautiful girl connected .. now how about dolphin .. i am still scratching my head over what the hell that one is about .. now lets talk about valentina, 2y2d, lolita and u don't have to wonder long why prince career is in the toilet .. ps prince .. she aint 2 young 2 dare .. ur just 2 old (and creepy) 2 screw (see what i did there)

prince's career is not in the toilet, his legacy as one of the best musicians in popular music is secure. He gets tremendous respect from his peers. He has nothing left to prove.

this can be looked at 2 ways. on one hand the classic era could be looked at his worldwide appeal and accolades or what we personally think is the classic era. To most people, he is known and remebered for Prince and The Revolution (Purple Rain). that movie, soundtrack and image. it all depends on how you look at and and what you're actually looking at.

as far as new and old material, nobody can honestly say they like EVERYTHING he has put out. BUT, the problem is constant comparing prince of 96-2013 to prince of 78-1996. This has to stop. nobody is gonna be the same at 50 that they were at 20. that's like when people say they miss the Reasonable Doubt Jay-Z. it sounds stupid. stop living in the past. that's old. he has great material from 96-today. it's just that everybody wants another sign o the times...been there, done that.

perhaps the man has simply run out of ideas. he is 54, he's talked about everything under the sun in almost every way. give em a break. no matter how young he looks, how much of an out of this world genius he is, he's still human.

tab32792 said:

this can be looked at 2 ways. on one hand the classic era could be looked at his worldwide appeal and accolades or what we personally think is the classic era. To most people, he is known and remebered for Prince and The Revolution (Purple Rain). that movie, soundtrack and image. it all depends on how you look at and and what you're actually looking at.

as far as new and old material, nobody can honestly say they like EVERYTHING he has put out. BUT, the problem is constant comparing prince of 96-2013 to prince of 78-1996. This has to stop. nobody is gonna be the same at 50 that they were at 20. that's like when people say they miss the Reasonable Doubt Jay-Z. it sounds stupid. stop living in the past. that's old. he has great material from 96-today. it's just that everybody wants another sign o the times...been there, done that.

perhaps the man has simply run out of ideas. he is 54, he's talked about everything under the sun in almost every way. give em a break. no matter how young he looks, how much of an out of this world genius he is, he's still human.

Your post is a totally different answer to a different question.

*

This thread isn't about comparing albums.

*

And it is about what would be considered a 'classic' Prince period: that includes everything. In most but not all situations, a classic period is never NEW. That's almost an oxymoron.

*

It's like someone who came on the scene 5 years ago and calling them an Icon, or someone 10 yrs in the industry and they are a Legend. the years you mentioned 78-1995 generally will be seen in different kinds of blocks as a Classic era to most fans.

*

If someone says "Classical/Classic America" they can't be talking about 2001

This question is actually really easy to answer because it really has nothing to do with what a person likes or dislikes. When talking about Classic words/terms like Author Defining Standard Enduring Established

*

the Musicology period or the 2003-2007 Period could be defined as a Reaquainting Period or Era, but not a Classic period. 20Ten can't be considered a Classic Period nor can 3rd Eye Girl. Maybe the 1995-1997/98 period can be defined by the what was happening with the WB issues, or maybe something else

*

But that old usage, 'stop living in the past' is old. What we are talking about has nothing to do with it, especially when you have a lot of new & young fans who also consider those periods what they prefer or feel is they're favorite. It doesn't reflect that wide age range of fans whether physically or when they became a fan. I know of new & young fans on the Org who of course did not live in that period nor could be fans during that period. But their favorite period is 1980s or 1982-1985 etc

clas·si·cal

/ˈklæsɪkəl/ Show Spelled [klas-i-kuhl] Show IPA

4.

noun

1980 -1988, basically from Dirty Mind to Lovesexy, with the zenith coming in 1986 around the Time of Crystal Ball/Dream Factory. As Lust said, I realy think 93 - 95 was an encore. But I would go further and say 96, as some of the stuff off Emancipation like, Curious Child, The Love we make, In this bed I scream, The Holy River, One Kiss at a time, is classic.

I also think The Gold Experience is a classic album and you also have to consider all the high quality out takes from the time like Days Of Wild, the Exodus Album and the like. Its like Prince had the second wind them. I also think Chaos and Disorder is a lot stronger than the sum of its parts, theres some outstanding material there.

But 1997/98 is the real fall off, the Crystal Ball distribution farrago (Although it had a lot of classic material on it). Jehovahs witness shit, Larry fxxking Graham and the crap fest called New Power soul, then this was followed up by 1999 the new master, Rave, and the Rainbow children (I still think the unreleased High would have been a better album if unreleased, Habibi and Underneath the cream are great). So 1997 - 2003 is the Nadir.

From NEWS to now is a plateau of average material, although 3121 and Lotusflow3r were moments of greatness, but not classic.