chopingard |
honer said:
Is anyone actually listening to Prince on a nice audio system or some proper headphones and has been doing so for more than 6 months ago when you bought some Beats headphones for your iphone?
Baarggh Beats headphones sound like shit, Get yourself a pair of HD-25's half the price and no shitty eq 
Anyway stop being gay and just enjoy the music.
*awaits obvious comebacks from the use of the word gay*
Then why say it?
It just ruins what was a good point
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ZsaZsaJackson 
|
OldFriends4Sale said: Chapter 9 Alone:Wally
The Rise & Fall of Prince
The dispute over Crystal Ball left Prince frustrated & depressed.
And to make matters worse, his relationship with Susannah Melvoin was spinning out of control for the last time.
In the months since the couple had concluded their brief attempt at cohabitation in Prince's Chanhassan home, their fighting had continued taking an emotional toll on the both of them. In December 1986, Susannah finally decided she had had enough; she packed her things and returned to Los Angeles San Fernando Valley, joining Lisa & Wendy
...
One evening shortly after Sussanah's departure, Susan Rogers could tell something was very wrong when Prince came down to the basement studio. Looking disconsolate and barely speaking, he began constructing a song around a meloncholy piano pattern. His spoken lyrics portrayed a fictional dialogue between himself and Wally Safford, a dancer in the band. Sounding sad and lost, Prince asks Wally to borrow $50 and some sunglasses so he can impress his lover, but then changes his mind and returns the items telling Wally that since he is alone now, he has no one to spend the money on. Prince was accompanied only by piano throught the verse, but guitar bass and drums enter as the song built to a chorus on which he sings the phrase "o-ma-la-di-da"
Watching Prince construct the song which he called "Wally", Rogers was stunned by the honest emotion and wistfull resignation it conveyed. She saw the song both as a farewell to Susannah and a means of expelling the poison of failed relationship.
"Do you know that malady means sickness, illness in French?" Prince asked Rogers. Refering to the phrase he sings in the chorus. "It's almost like the word melody, isn't it?" Prince who rarely exposed his inner feelings, even in his music, was groping for a metaphor that would convey his feeling of loss. Rogers felt it was a turning point in his songwriting.
But as the session continued, Prince started to distance himself from the creation. He added extraneous instruments to diminished the songs clarity. A percussion part that cluttered the verse, detracting from the lyrics.
Don't you think it was better before, Prince?" Rogers said. "Maybe we should stop"
He ignored her, adding the synthizer riff. Soon it became clear to her: He was intentionally destroying the song. After larding the piece with additional instruments, he finally spoke. "Now put all 24 Channels on record and erase it." he told Rogers
"No, you can't do this!" Rogers said dismayed by the prospect of losing the statement at the core of the song.
"If you don't I will," Prince responded
Rogers stood her ground, and Prince was forced to operate the soundboard himself, as he destroyed his own music.
"Wally" like his relationship with Susannah, Wendy & Lisa involved more emotional intensity than Prince was willing to accept. "I thought it was the greatest thing he had ever done" says Rogers. I had waited years to hear a Prince song like this. I ached for him to be this honest.
Yet Princes refusal to explore his feelings was not altogether surprising. Rogers had discussed the topic of depression with him and found Prince contemptuous of the notion.
"He thought it was practically a sin to be depressed" she remembered. Many other associates have observed that Prince -not only in his relationships, but even in his music -is cryptic and unrevealing of his deepest feelings. "His music is very passionate, but he doesn't let himself open up emotionally" observed Marylou Badeaux. " ...
Did he cheat on her? |
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novabrkr |
djThunderfunk said:
paulludvig said:
Well, ok. But I think she tries to create the impression that she was more important than she really was. I'm amazed that people here on the org don't realize that one has to be critical when assessing the accuracy of historical information. People don't have perfect memory, and they are not objective witnesses.
Anyway - I think this quote from the same interview is telling: Prince asked me what I thought [about If I was your Gilfriend]–and that’s not something that he normally did–
As a trained audio engineer, who has studied all the liner notes and information in The Vault (the book), I believe she WAS an important partner in the creative process. Certainly the music she recorded has a more interesting soundcape than those she did not.
Trust this: an audio engineer has a lot to do with how the artists vision sounds on the final product. The results will vary based on the needs of the artist and the talent of the engineer. In the case of the music she recorded for Prince, she is an important element.
Prince changed the equipment he was using around that time almost completely and his songwriting changed a lot too. The late-1980s had fairly bland production standards in any case and some of the stuff Prince did at the time simply reflects that time.
Engineers can have a drastic effect on the overall sound of recordings, but what we've heard on the things Prince has recorded on his own it's quite clear that he didn't need to rely on other people for "shaping his sound". Susan Rogers wasn't the only engineer he worked with at the time anyway.
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novabrkr |
... and rdhull, I'm sorry but comparing an engineer's influence on the music to W&L's contributions is quite disrespectful towards the musicians that actually worked on the arrangements and performed on the records.
Quite a few people on this thread are possibly mixing up what an "engineer" and a "producer" does.
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BobGeorge909 
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After reading the article....it seems to have said that she was solicited for advice, and it was given. They worked together so much, its impossible to say she had little influence. We're all fans here, right....we all know Prince M.O. He surrounds himself with capable people(usually,) engages them in a manner that gets the most juice out of them, the proceeds to absorb it like a spongy, then send them on their way. Prince couldn't have had her around and not have absorbed anything from her...as well, she held a position which is integral to making a record.
Might as well on say that the midwife that helped my gramma deliver 11 of her 12 children wasn't an important part of the process and wasn't able to offer my gramma insight as to what was going on, even around childs 10 & 11. I omitted child 12 cuz my Aunt Cynthia was actually born at St Tammany Hospital. The only child my Gramma birthd in a hospital. |
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rdhull 
|
novabrkr said:
... and rdhull, I'm sorry but comparing an engineer's influence on the music to W&L's contributions is quite disrespectful towards the musicians that actually worked on the arrangements and performed on the records.
Quite a few people on this thread are possibly mixing up what an "engineer" and a "producer" does.
Mutt Lange on line 1. yeah I know he's a producer but in this case IM sure Susan played both parts as well.... "Climb in my fur." |
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Replica 
|
Prince was more interested in the edge of the sounds than actual sound quality. At least IMO it seems so to me. He is probably a quite competent old school engineer himself, so if it feels right it is right. |
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djThunderfunk 
|
novabrkr said:
... and rdhull, I'm sorry but comparing an engineer's influence on the music to W&L's contributions is quite disrespectful towards the musicians that actually worked on the arrangements and performed on the records.
Quite a few people on this thread are possibly mixing up what an "engineer" and a "producer" does.
Often and engineer is a co-producer, it depends on the needs of the artist, the abilities of the engineer and the creative relationship they share. From what I've read, Susan was a co-producer of some of the music she recorded for Prince, and other times, she was just rolling tape and working the board.
Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors. |
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paulludvig |
djThunderfunk said:
novabrkr said:
... and rdhull, I'm sorry but comparing an engineer's influence on the music to W&L's contributions is quite disrespectful towards the musicians that actually worked on the arrangements and performed on the records.
Quite a few people on this thread are possibly mixing up what an "engineer" and a "producer" does.
Often and engineer is a co-producer, it depends on the needs of the artist, the abilities of the engineer and the creative relationship they share. From what I've read, Susan was a co-producer of some of the music she recorded for Prince, and other times, she was just rolling tape and working the board.
What have you read to indicate that she was a co-producer? I think it's more likely that she just worked the board and rolled the tapes. In the interview quoted above, she admits that Prince rarely asked for her advice. The one time she mentions Prince asked for her opinion, it was simply about the choice of singel. The wooh is on the one! |
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Purpleaxxe1972 |
skywalker said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
Hmm. I don't see "Play in the Sunshine."
What's this song "Wendy"? I've never heard that title before. It couldn't be referencing "Little Girl Wendy's Parade" could it? Anybody know anything about it? |
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Purpleaxxe1972 |
honer said:
Its "interesting" that since the surge of mass market high end headphones has taken place, people are now all of a sudden pro sound engineers!
Its only recently have I heard ANYONE on here or anywhere else moaning about clipping, loss, eq blah blah blah. I'd wager the majority of peope dont know fuck all about what should and shouldnt sound nice. In the 80's and 90's you were happy if it was clear and loud now all of a sudden you're all bloody audiophiles.
Is anyone actually listening to Prince on a nice audio system or some proper headphones and has been doing so for more than 6 months ago when you bought some Beats headphones for your iphone?
Anyway stop being gay and just enjoy the music.
*awaits obvious comebacks from the use of the word gay*
[Edited 2/26/13 2:32am]
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Purpleaxxe1972 |
I didn't catch this earlier in the thread. What is the difference between an "engineer" and a "producer"?
novabrkr said:
... and rdhull, I'm sorry but comparing an engineer's influence on the music to W&L's contributions is quite disrespectful towards the musicians that actually worked on the arrangements and performed on the records.
Quite a few people on this thread are possibly mixing up what an "engineer" and a "producer" does.
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rdhull
|
When it came to Susan, probably not much.
Purpleaxxe1972 said:
I didn't catch this earlier in the thread. What is the difference between an "engineer" and a "producer"?
novabrkr said:
... and rdhull, I'm sorry but comparing an engineer's influence on the music to W&L's contributions is quite disrespectful towards the musicians that actually worked on the arrangements and performed on the records.
Quite a few people on this thread are possibly mixing up what an "engineer" and a "producer" does.
"Climb in my fur." |
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Genesia 
|
Especially on something like If I Was Your Girlfriend - where her engineering (unintentional though it was) changed the entire tenor of the song.
rdhull said:
When it came to Susan, probably not much.
Purpleaxxe1972 said:
I didn't catch this earlier in the thread. What is the difference between an "engineer" and a "producer"?
We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. |
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rdhull
|
Right..but let Nova tell it, Susan just swept and mopped up the place.
oh and dang you purpleaxxe for changing the quoting to on top here lol
Genesia said:
Especially on something like If I Was Your Girlfriend - where her engineering (unintentional though it was) changed the entire tenor of the song.
rdhull said:
When it came to Susan, probably not much.
"Climb in my fur." |
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Purpleaxxe1972 |
rdhull said:
Right..but let Nova tell it, Susan just swept and mopped up the place.
oh and dang you purpleaxxe for changing the quoting to on top here lol
Genesia said:
Especially on something like If I Was Your Girlfriend - where her engineering (unintentional though it was) changed the entire tenor of the song.
I blame the randomness of the older IE my job uses. |
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paulludvig |
Purpleaxxe1972 said:
I didn't catch this earlier in the thread. What is the difference between an "engineer" and a "producer"?
novabrkr said:
... and rdhull, I'm sorry but comparing an engineer's influence on the music to W&L's contributions is quite disrespectful towards the musicians that actually worked on the arrangements and performed on the records.
Quite a few people on this thread are possibly mixing up what an "engineer" and a "producer" does.
Engineering is unintentionally making a mistake that changes the tenor of a song.
Producing is intentionally keeping the mistake rather than re-record. The wooh is on the one! |
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rdhull
|
paulludvig said:
Purpleaxxe1972 said:
I didn't catch this earlier in the thread. What is the difference between an "engineer" and a "producer"?
Engineering is unintentionally making a mistake that changes the tenor of a song.
Producing is intentionally keeping the mistake rather than re-record.
HEY! "Climb in my fur." |
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chopingard |
I think the Engineer/Producer line blurs with Prince, not much he is obviously still very much captain of his ship.
If I remember correctly there's an interview with Kyle Bess where he talks about making rough mixes while Prince would go and rehearse the band and he would stay and create a title and a rough mix for a cassette.
Also with the maxi singles Chronic Freeze (either on his chats here the Matt Thorne book or the Prince in the studio book) again if I remember correctly was saying that multiple copies of the original 2" tape were made and Prince was going from studio A to studio B and Studio C directing the engineers and making quick overdubs while they were tape editing to direction and adding bits.
I guess there's also Michal Kopperman with his 2 second guitar lick in Diamonds & Pearls But he seemed to imply there was a blur of the roles aswell or maybe i'm just reading to much into it.
If there's anyone with those Chronic Freeze stories I'd love to read them again. [Edited 2/28/13 9:34am] |
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Praxis 
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I enjoyed this very much. A few thoughts: Play in the Sunshine is 1 of my fav Prince songs. Interesting that it was a filler. Slow Love also  and an old 1 from the vault? Cool 2 know  Susan deserves Much respect. To think that her craft is Behind so many of our fav tunes...and the way Prince valued her perspective is positive great link and thx 4 sharing  No justice, No peace |
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OldFriends4Sal
e |
Purpleaxxe1972 said:
skywalker said:
Hmm. I don't see "Play in the Sunshine."
What's this song "Wendy"? I've never heard that title before. It couldn't be referencing "Little Girl Wendy's Parade" could it? Anybody know anything about it?
I think it might be Interlude, the guitar piece by Wendy |
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1nonly 
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The whole Possessed book is an awesome read. But be warned, if you are in love with Prince, the person, you may be in for a shock. He is human, afterall, and the book very much potrays him as such...many flaws and all.
Still a great read. I've read it 2.5 times already. Walking alone in the dark, I see nothing u see
I can be in a park, or flying in the…in the deep sea
I wish u’d hold my hand; then everything could b
There’s nothing strange, we’re not deranged
We only want everyday 2 b a Cosmic Day |
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1nonly
|
OldFriends4Sale said:
Purpleaxxe1972 said:
What's this song "Wendy"? I've never heard that title before. It couldn't be referencing "Little Girl Wendy's Parade" could it? Anybody know anything about it?
I think it might be Interlude, the guitar piece by Wendy
Could it be the guitar part that was evident preceeded ICNTTPOYM on other configurations? Walking alone in the dark, I see nothing u see
I can be in a park, or flying in the…in the deep sea
I wish u’d hold my hand; then everything could b
There’s nothing strange, we’re not deranged
We only want everyday 2 b a Cosmic Day |
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SuperFurryAnim
al 
|
Reminds me of an old interview where he had rules for playing slow songs then follow it with a heavy song, etc. Things he learned from his father. What are you outraged about today? CNN has not told you yet? |
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OldFriends4Sal
e |
1nonly said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
I think it might be Interlude, the guitar piece by Wendy
Could it be the guitar part that was evident preceeded ICNTTPOYM on other configurations?
Isn't that 'Interlude'?
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OldFriends4Sal
e |
The HITS 9 45440-2
By tour’s end, Prince had completely lost interest in the technology required to devise “contemporary beats.” Intriguingly, he rediscovered his taste for acoustic rhythms at a time when most successful producers were doing their best to utilize the very electronics he’d grown weary of. Truthfully, Prince had never looked upon any of his instruments as more than tools of the trade. Susan Rogers claims, “He’d record with a comb and jug if that’s all that was in front of him.” |
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duggalolly 
|
OldFriends4Sale said:
1nonly said:
Could it be the guitar part that was evident preceeded ICNTTPOYM on other configurations?
Isn't that 'Interlude'?
Susan's note calls it "Wendy" but other bootlegs call it "Interlude"-- I think they are the same track. It's a short guitar improvisation by Wendy. I guess it was recorded as a companion to "Visions," the piece by Lisa which was supposed to be the opening track. "Visions" was eventually released with a different title, "Minneapolis #1" so I guess the titles for these tracks were sort of arbitrary. |
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