Interesting interview posted here with Susan Rogers, long-time engineer for some of Prince's seminal works.

http://daddyrockstar.tumb...mes-part-1

I thought this quote was particularly interesting:

People have assumed that because these records were successful that we took the same degree and care with the technique as we did with the art and that’s completely false. I mean, technically, sonically these records aren’t great. Many, many, many others in which care was actually put into the technique and the craft sound better. Our records sounded alright, their form served the function, but what was great about it and what people were buying was not the sonic qualities. People were buying the art, the musical attributes. In that sense, Prince didn’t care; and any of those old records, if you listen to Sly Stone or James Brown, you’ll hear distortion all over the place but it doesn’t affect the music at all.

For all those going through fits about how the technical quality of Prince's recordings has declined, who complain about the excessive clipping, etc., I think this provides some context and perspective.

So please stop obsessing, posting soundwave analyses, etc. Maybe Prince is returning back to his roots in raw recording. What if he decided the accident that was "If I Was Ur Girlfriend" needed to be re-recorded to make up for its flawed vocal levels? Would we ever have Camille?

Well, for starters, digital clipping due to the overuse of software limiters and other contemporary loudness boosting techniques is quite different from analog distortion ending up on the recordings due to an overdriven preamp stage. The sound is completely different and the latter is not perceived anywhere nearly as unpleasant as the former. Digital clipping is described as unpleasant by most sound engineers, whereas analog clipping has been often even intentionally introduced to the recordings.

novabrkr said:

Well, for starters, digital clipping due to the overuse of software limiters and other contemporary loudness boosting techniques is quite different from analog distortion ending up on the recordings due to an overdriven preamp stage. The sound is completely different and the latter is not perceived anywhere nearly as unpleasant as the former. Digital clipping is described as unpleasant by most sound engineers, whereas analog clipping has been often even intentionally introduced to the recordings.

Point taken, and though I did use the example of clipping (maybe I should not have) my basic point was to introduce the idea that maybe there was a time when Prince was less interested in the technical aspects of production vs. artistry. And perhaps, in this latest phase, he is more interested in getting stuff down and out, than going over and making sure it is technically perfect. There are some postings on the Bambi thread complaining about distortion and "crackle."

novabrkr said:

Well, for starters, digital clipping due to the overuse of software limiters and other contemporary loudness boosting techniques is quite different from analog distortion ending up on the recordings due to an overdriven preamp stage. The sound is completely different and the latter is not perceived anywhere nearly as unpleasant as the former. Digital clipping is described as unpleasant by most sound engineers, whereas analog clipping has been often even intentionally introduced to the recordings.

Spot on! I'm glad you're still here.

Susan Rogers the Purple Engineer is a book that needs to be writen

2002 "Susan Rogers, for the record, doesn't know anything about my music. Not one thing. The only person who knows anything about my music (pause for pointed effect).... is me." Prince talks about Susan Rogers

2006 "Yes, Prince is correct on this, but only in one sense. In another sense, namely the experience of listening to music created by another, Prince knows his music the least. Because creating music and consuming music are two distinct processes." (Susan Roger's response about Prince saying she doesn't know anything about his music)

Wasn't that comment Prince made on Susan Rogers about her having criticized his recent output and the interviewer citing her words?

What she had said wasn't very respectful and I can see why Prince got upset when you're told upfront something like that. It's not like Bruce Swedien has ever stated in public that MJ "lost it".

"Oh, by the way, Prince, your former engineer says your new music sucks."

OldFriends4Sale said:

Susan Rogers the Purple Engineer is a book that needs to be writen

I'd buy that book!!

novabrkr said:

"Oh, by the way, Prince, your former engineer says your new music sucks."

I just thought it was in response to her part in one of the book written on Prince

I found this part fascinating:

DRS: I like every song on the album. I think “Play In The Sunshine” was a cool song even though it wasn’t released as a single.

SR: That was one of those songs that we knocked off very quickly. Prince did what most people do. When he would conceive of an album there were core songs that were the heart and the skeleton of the album. “Purple Rain” was a core song on the album Purple Rain, and of course “Sign O’ The Times” was one of the fundamental songs for that album. So when we would sequence a record sometimes we’d take our core songs and a few other tracks and we would sequence them together just to hear how the album was going to sound. If there was something missing, if there needed to be a song that would transition between two of the core or the more important songs, Prince would actually write something specifically to serve in the sequence. So in that sense there were the most important songs and then there were the album cuts–the things that were almost interludes on the record. So the songs were never intended to be singles or even have any important message. That’s what “Play In The Sunshine” was; it was just a bridge to get us out of “Sign O’ The Times” and into the rest of the record. “Slow Love” was another one of those…that was an old one from the vault.

Even though it has become a dirty word, there is artistic merit and reasoning to what some fans call "filler".

Also, an acknowledgement that, yes even 80's Prince, had "filler."

Very interesting read - thanks for sharing this!

skywalker said:

I found this part fascinating:

DRS: I like every song on the album. I think “Play In The Sunshine” was a cool song even though it wasn’t released as a single.

SR: That was one of those songs that we knocked off very quickly. Prince did what most people do. When he would conceive of an album there were core songs that were the heart and the skeleton of the album. “Purple Rain” was a core song on the album Purple Rain, and of course “Sign O’ The Times” was one of the fundamental songs for that album. So when we would sequence a record sometimes we’d take our core songs and a few other tracks and we would sequence them together just to hear how the album was going to sound. If there was something missing, if there needed to be a song that would transition between two of the core or the more important songs, Prince would actually write something specifically to serve in the sequence. So in that sense there were the most important songs and then there were the album cuts–the things that were almost interludes on the record. So the songs were never intended to be singles or even have any important message. That’s what “Play In The Sunshine” was; it was just a bridge to get us out of “Sign O’ The Times” and into the rest of the record. “Slow Love” was another one of those…that was an old one from the vault.

Even though it has become a dirty word, there is artistic merit and reasoning to what some fans call "filler".

Also, an acknowledgement that, yes even 80's Prince, had "filler."

But...

"Play In The Sunshine" does not come right after "Sign 'O' The Times" on the original Crystal Ball album. The opener on it was "Rebirth Of The Flesh" and "Play In The Sunshine" follows it.

I don't think you can really call anything on SOTT a "filler" (even in square quotes) as he had so much material to choose from. What Rogers just meant is that the songs served different purposes for the flow of the record - a filler is something that is added to make the record longer.

novabrkr said:

skywalker said:

I found this part fascinating:

DRS: I like every song on the album. I think “Play In The Sunshine” was a cool song even though it wasn’t released as a single.

SR: That was one of those songs that we knocked off very quickly. Prince did what most people do. When he would conceive of an album there were core songs that were the heart and the skeleton of the album. “Purple Rain” was a core song on the album Purple Rain, and of course “Sign O’ The Times” was one of the fundamental songs for that album. So when we would sequence a record sometimes we’d take our core songs and a few other tracks and we would sequence them together just to hear how the album was going to sound. If there was something missing, if there needed to be a song that would transition between two of the core or the more important songs, Prince would actually write something specifically to serve in the sequence. So in that sense there were the most important songs and then there were the album cuts–the things that were almost interludes on the record. So the songs were never intended to be singles or even have any important message. That’s what “Play In The Sunshine” was; it was just a bridge to get us out of “Sign O’ The Times” and into the rest of the record. “Slow Love” was another one of those…that was an old one from the vault.

Even though it has become a dirty word, there is artistic merit and reasoning to what some fans call "filler".

Also, an acknowledgement that, yes even 80's Prince, had "filler."

But...

"Play In The Sunshine" does not come right after "Sign 'O' The Times" on the original Crystal Ball album. The opener on it was "Rebirth Of The Flesh" and "Play In The Sunshine" follows it.

So Susan Rogers doesn't know what she is talking about?

novabrkr said:

I don't think you can really call anything on SOTT a "filler" (even in square quotes) as he had so much material to choose from. What Rogers just meant is that the songs served different purposes for the flow of the record - a filler is something that is added to make the record longer.

You say potato...

skywalker said:

skywalker said:

novabrkr said:

But...

"Play In The Sunshine" does not come right after "Sign 'O' The Times" on the original Crystal Ball album. The opener on it was "Rebirth Of The Flesh" and "Play In The Sunshine" follows it.

So Susan Rogers doesn't know what she is talking about?

It doesn't seem to fit what we've heard from other sources.

It could be that she remembers something wrong (e.g. simply mixes up the the title track and "Rebirth Of The Flesh"). It could also be the case that at one point "Sign 'O' The Times was considered an opener for the CB set. It's also possible that she tries to appear more knowledgeable on Prince's motives for writing the song than what she really is.

BobGeorge909 said:

skywalker said:

You say potato...

I know...really! She specifically said that the records served as bridges from one song to another...It's like novabrkr was there and not Susan...and Susan is misreporting the story told to her about what happened at the studio.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your comment.

I have not claimed to have been there in the studio. Susan Rogers didn't call the track a "filler" herself, she said that it worked as a transition from one song to another. A "filler" is something that is added to a record to increase its running time.

skywalker said:

I found this part fascinating:

DRS: I like every song on the album. I think “Play In The Sunshine” was a cool song even though it wasn’t released as a single.

SR: That was one of those songs that we knocked off very quickly. Prince did what most people do. When he would conceive of an album there were core songs that were the heart and the skeleton of the album. “Purple Rain” was a core song on the album Purple Rain, and of course “Sign O’ The Times” was one of the fundamental songs for that album. So when we would sequence a record sometimes we’d take our core songs and a few other tracks and we would sequence them together just to hear how the album was going to sound. If there was something missing, if there needed to be a song that would transition between two of the core or the more important songs, Prince would actually write something specifically to serve in the sequence. So in that sense there were the most important songs and then there were the album cuts–the things that were almost interludes on the record. So the songs were never intended to be singles or even have any important message. That’s what “Play In The Sunshine” was; it was just a bridge to get us out of “Sign O’ The Times” and into the rest of the record. “Slow Love” was another one of those…that was an old one from the vault.

Even though it has become a dirty word, there is artistic merit and reasoning to what some fans call "filler".

Also, an acknowledgement that, yes even 80's Prince, had "filler."

wow, thanks 4 sharing, very technical explaination, not a personal/emotion response... love it

and 2 even read that Slow Love was an older song from the Vault

djThunderfunk said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Susan Rogers the Purple Engineer is a book that needs to be writen

I'd buy that book!!

U know it,

and even better would be a combination of Susan Rogers & Lisa Coleman

novabrkr said:

skywalker said:

So Susan Rogers doesn't know what she is talking about?

It doesn't seem to fit what we've heard from other sources.

It could be that she remembers something wrong (e.g. simply mixes up the the title track and "Rebirth Of The Flesh"). It could also be the case that at one point "Sign 'O' The Times was considered an opener for the CB set. It's also possible that she tries to appear more knowledgeable on Prince's motives for writing the song than what she really is.

Before Crystal Ball, Sign o the Times was on the Dream Factory album

Original tracklist for Crystal Ball

Here's the tracklisting for Crystal Ball...

Side 1:

01. Rebirth Of The Flesh

02. Play In The Sunshine

03. Housequake

04. The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker

Side 2:

05. It

06. Starfish And Coffee

07. Slow Love

08. Hot Thing

Side 3:

09. Crystal Ball

10. If I Was Your Girlfriend

11. Rockhard In A Funky Place

Side 4:

12. The Ball

13. Joy In Repetition

14. Strange Relationship

15. I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man

Side 5:

16. Shockadelica

17. Good Love

18. Forever In My Life

19. Sign O' The Times

Side 6:

20. The Cross

21. Adore

22. It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night

http://prince.org/msg/7/360660?sub=1

Dream Factory July 18 1986 mix

1. Visions

2. Nevaeh ni ecalp a

3. Dream Factory

4. Train

5. The Ballad of Dorothy Parker

6. It

7. Strange Relationship

8. Starfish and Coffee

9. Interlude

10. Slow Love

11. I could never take the place of your man

12. Sign o the Times

13. A Place in Heaven

14. Crystal Ball

15. The Cross

16. Last Heart

17. Witness for the Prosecution

18. Movie Star

19. All My Dreams

OldFriends4Sale said:

Hmm. I don't see "Play in the Sunshine."

What she tells in that interview doesn't make much sense. It's possible that she just simply remembers things wrong.

I don't quite understand how "Slow Love" could be an "old one from the vault" either. Sure, he might have written the song earlier and there might have existed a demo of some sort, but the recording on SOTT has Atlanta Bliss and Eric leeds on horns and a Clare Fischer string arrangement on it. He had not worked with those people for very long at that point. The recording on SOTT suggests that either it got a lot of overdubs added to it or it was re-recorded altogether. The way she tells about these things seems often quite misleading to me, I have to say.

novabrkr said:

I imagine there were numerous running orders from Dream Factory thru Crystal Ball into Sign of the Times (and then Camille/Black and even Lovesexy). Prince records so much that the process of creating an album can be an organic, constantly changing beast as he records new material to 'fill' in the gaps of the ever-changing album concepts. so in many way susan is right about recording new songs (fillers) (even though there are plenty in the bag). we all know prince has a very short attention span, and although he used W&L tracks on SOTT, he must of also felt it necessary to record new stuff to show he still had it, which of course he did!

novabrkr said:

What she tells in that interview doesn't make much sense. It's possible that she just simply remembers things wrong.

I don't quite understand how "Slow Love" could be an "old one from the vault" either. Sure, he might have written the song earlier and there might have existed a demo of some sort, but the recording on SOTT has Atlanta Bliss and Eric leeds on horns and a Clare Fischer string arrangement on it. He had not worked with those people for very long at that point. The recording on SOTT suggests that either it got a lot of overdubs added to it or it was re-recorded altogether. The way she tells about these things seems often quite misleading to me, I have to say.

if she's telling the truth, for 'Slow Love' it's probably the latter. 'Beautiful Night' certainly was an entirely different beast to what really went down 'live' in Paris. That originally was pretty much an instrumental with a few chants and not much else.

I like this thread. Something interesting for a change.

skywalker said:

I found this part fascinating:

DRS: I like every song on the album. I think “Play In The Sunshine” was a cool song even though it wasn’t released as a single.

SR: That was one of those songs that we knocked off very quickly. Prince did what most people do. When he would conceive of an album there were core songs that were the heart and the skeleton of the album. “Purple Rain” was a core song on the album Purple Rain, and of course “Sign O’ The Times” was one of the fundamental songs for that album. So when we would sequence a record sometimes we’d take our core songs and a few other tracks and we would sequence them together just to hear how the album was going to sound. If there was something missing, if there needed to be a song that would transition between two of the core or the more important songs, Prince would actually write something specifically to serve in the sequence. So in that sense there were the most important songs and then there were the album cuts–the things that were almost interludes on the record. So the songs were never intended to be singles or even have any important message. That’s what “Play In The Sunshine” was; it was just a bridge to get us out of “Sign O’ The Times” and into the rest of the record. “Slow Love” was another one of those…that was an old one from the vault.

Even though it has become a dirty word, there is artistic merit and reasoning to what some fans call "filler".

Also, an acknowledgement that, yes even 80's Prince, had "filler."

That is awesome! Thanks for posting it! It is cool to know there is indeed artistic merit to what we call 'Filler'. She said many artists did this! What is cool, is that 'Play In The Sunshine' is trippy and makes no dang sense..But that is what I love about it. He went the same direction with a lot songs, in Lovesexy. LOVESEXY is one of my favorite albums, but what does it really mean? WELL, we know what it means..but obviously, only particular songs were meant to really MEAN something to Prince. Then again, it was released as one track. Never mind...LOL. BUT interesting read!

Marrk said:

Thanks - I think I've read this or part of this before, esp the bit about vocals on If I Was Your Girlfriend and him recording his deep spiritual songs on Sundays.

Liked the mention about him playing Kate Bush's Running Up That Hill a lot - she's an amazing

talent.

Also for those of you recently raising the issue about compression and loudness in new music (lack of dynamic range)- worth reading she gives a good explanation for this and why it is done.

[Edited 2/25/13 13:29pm]