SchlomoThaHomo said:

I thought the stuff he recorded during the WB years can't be sold without giving them a cut until he completely owns his masters?

I'm fairly sure you're right.

Which is why I think we've got more luck choosing from post WB material.

Chiquetet said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

I thought the stuff he recorded during the WB years can't be sold without giving them a cut until he completely owns his masters?

I'm fairly sure you're right.

Which is why I think we've got more luck choosing from post WB material.

What about "Crystall Ball" which contained many WB songs and was released after his break up with WB ?

fredmagnus said:

- DataBank ('86 Version)

- ExtraLovable ('83 Version - remove the vocals from the 'rape' part if need be - but keep the length!)

- Crucial - FULL LENGTH Saxophone version!

- Wonderfull Ass (Extended 9:45 version)

- BatDance (9:00 version - although probably can't happen because of WB)

- I Can't Stop / Girl Of My Dreams / We Can Funk - with segues intact

- Long version of Computer Blue (with hallway speech)

- Long version of Dorothy Parker

- Long version of 17 days

- Long version of Billy Jack Bitch

- In A Large Room With No Light (original version)

- Rebirth Of The Flesh

- FULL version of Joy In Repitition (without segue)

I would be SOOOOOO happy for the above (although I know what most, if not all, won't happen)

[Edited 2/18/13 8:52am]

I'm doubtful he will go back into the archives and release an old track untouched. he will likely revamp which is sad.

so many masterpieces i want to hear......alas

tis tis what a pity....

SchlomoThaHomo said:

fredmagnus said:

What about "Crystall Ball" which contained many WB songs and was released after his break up with WB ?

Maybe they got a cut? I remember him saying he would be completely free in 1999 when his last ties to WB would end. Since CB came in 1998, maybe they got paid? Not sure of course.

Prince owns every unreleased thing he recorded during his WB years. What he doesn't own is the material they DID release. He could open the whole f*cking vault if he wanted to, WB couldn't do a thing xcept maybe for alternate mixes of songs they released (and still, they tolerated them on both Crystal Ball and NPGMC).

The Divine!

He reckons we can't handle it, but I'm nearly 40, so I reckon I'll be OK.

databank said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

fredmagnus said: Maybe they got a cut? I remember him saying he would be completely free in 1999 when his last ties to WB would end. Since CB came in 1998, maybe they got paid? Not sure of course.

Prince owns every unreleased thing he recorded during his WB years. What he doesn't own is the material they DID release. He could open the whole f*cking vault if he wanted to, WB couldn't do a thing xcept maybe for alternate mixes of songs they released (and still, they tolerated them on both Crystal Ball and NPGMC).

What are you basing that on?

My understanding of recording contracts is that, while you're under contract, your record label owns the copyright to any sound recordings ('masters') you create - released or unreleased.

Unless he had a specific clause in his contract stating otherwise (which is possible in the second contract but almost certainly not the case in the first), I'd say that WB would have some claim on any vault material he recorded up until he was officially released from his contract.

I don't know that they could stop him from releasing anything (and really, why would they?), but I suspect that he'd still need to negotiate with them as the copyright holders (of the recordings, not the songs) and that MAY be one of the reasons that Prince is so reticent to start selling these tracks - more money for him, yes, but that also means he's making more money for WB.

We tend to assume that he's re-recording his old songs (Extralovable, Dance Electric, etc...) because he doesn't like/approve of the originals, and there's presumably something in that, but it could also be because if he releases the original recordings, he will need to pay something to WB, whereas if he creates a new master recording of the songs, he does not.

jasontate said:

The Divine!

He reckons we can't handle it, but I'm nearly 40, so I reckon I'll be OK.

YES!

Chiquetet said:

databank said:

Prince owns every unreleased thing he recorded during his WB years. What he doesn't own is the material they DID release. He could open the whole f*cking vault if he wanted to, WB couldn't do a thing xcept maybe for alternate mixes of songs they released (and still, they tolerated them on both Crystal Ball and NPGMC).

What are you basing that on?

My understanding of recording contracts is that, while you're under contract, your record label owns the copyright to any sound recordings ('masters') you create - released or unreleased.

Unless he had a specific clause in his contract stating otherwise (which is possible in the second contract but almost certainly not the case in the first), I'd say that WB would have some claim on any vault material he recorded up until he was officially released from his contract.

I don't know that they could stop him from releasing anything (and really, why would they?), but I suspect that he'd still need to negotiate with them as the copyright holders (of the recordings, not the songs) and that MAY be one of the reasons that Prince is so reticent to start selling these tracks - more money for him, yes, but that also means he's making more money for WB.

We tend to assume that he's re-recording his old songs (Extralovable, Dance Electric, etc...) because he doesn't like/approve of the originals, and there's presumably something in that, but it could also be because if he releases the original recordings, he will need to pay something to WB, whereas if he creates a new master recording of the songs, he does not.

How can WB prove that a song was recorded before 1995 and not after, though? Legally speaking it's quite impossible despite the documentation we have about this era's recording sessions. WB can claim copyright on what they already have but Prince didn't deliver a copy of every song he recorded. He could as well release a 1982 song today and claim it was recorded last week: what could WB do? The very minute Prince got free of WB, they lost any kind of control they could have on his private archives.

Even if we admit that they let Prince fuck 'em with CB and the NPGMC tracks (after all, they DID let him get away with re-releasing a few WB tracks on both these projects, not to mention the Batdance snippet on Indigo Nights) just because they were independant releases, it's hard to swallow that they'd ever allow Arista/BMG, a major competitor, to make money with Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic!!! And WB would have HAD to be credited on the album's cover for allowing a licence. And how about Roadhouse Garden and Crystal Ball II? Both projects were full of WB-era tracks and it doesn't seem they were cancelled because of WB.

Strangely, though, Alan Leeds once said in an interview that Prince would need to work with WB if he was to release LIVE stuff from the WB years, but then again Prince DID release such material thru NPGMC (again) and WB never moved, so maybe Mr. Leeds made a mistake?

As for Extraloveable I think he just digs rerecording songs and that he wouldn't release the old one outside of a proper archive project anyway, considering the violence of the lyrics (the "rape" thing). And The Dance Electric has nothing to do with WB since it was originally a CBS release (not sure who owns it now, since it's been rereleased twice lately).

So far, we do have a single fact: Prince DID release a lot of WB-era material between 1998 and 2001 and Warner DID NOT move. It sure doesn't prove anything, though, I'll give you that.

Did Columbia Records pay WB anything for "The Dance Electric?"

I Wonder.

disque said:

electricberet said:

Did Columbia Records pay WB anything for "The Dance Electric?"

It's not the same. Artists are regularly allowed to appear on other musicians' albums for free, with a "courtesy of" mention: it's a system that allows collaborations. This means a written agreement from the record company, though. Many times with songs he produced for others, Prince hid his credits as a musician (crediting himself only as a composer, if at all) in order to avoid all the paperwork that would go with it.

That's what happened with TDE: as far as WB was concerned, Prince was nothing but the composer. Did they know? Obviously they did, but they couldn't prove a thing and anyway, they obviously wouldn't want to alienate one of their biggest artists' by stopping him from being a producer and earning extra money from such an activity.

databank said:

How can WB prove that a song was recorded before 1995 and not after, though? Legally speaking it's quite impossible despite the documentation we have about this era's recording sessions. WB can claim copyright on what they already have but Prince didn't deliver a copy of every song he recorded. He could as well release a 1982 song today and claim it was recorded last week: what could WB do? The very minute Prince got free of WB, they lost any kind of control they could have on his private archives.

They didn't lose control - they still technically (most likely) own the copyright over the sound recordings he made, privately or otherwise.

Your point about proving it is valid, although he would have had WB people around him a fair bit during that time, so they probably have more documentation than you'd think. Also, even though unauthorised biographies and info sites would only be circumstantial, they would be enough to keep something in court if he did try to sneak something through. It might be one of (admittedly several) reasons he's never authorised a biography of any kind.

Then, there are the bootlegs. Anything that was in circulation prior to the end of the contract would most likely be considered under copyright. He's hardly going to be able to claim that Moonbeam Levels was recorded last week, is he? Another reason for him not to like them.

But yes, it's entirely possible that he has already released old tracks since leaving WB that they either knew nothing about or couldn't prove was recorded under contract. These are not the tracks people want released, though.

Even if we admit that they let Prince fuck 'em with CB and the NPGMC tracks (after all, they DID let him get away with re-releasing a few WB tracks on both these projects, not to mention the Batdance snippet on Indigo Nights) just because they were independant releases, it's hard to swallow that they'd ever allow Arista/BMG, a major competitor, to make money with Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic!!! And WB would have HAD to be credited on the album's cover for allowing a licence. And how about Roadhouse Garden and Crystal Ball II? Both projects were full of WB-era tracks and it doesn't seem they were cancelled because of WB.

We don't know what deals might have been made behind the scenes (I realise this argument goes both ways) - perhaps they waived credit for a fee.

Strangely, though, Alan Leeds once said in an interview that Prince would need to work with WB if he was to release LIVE stuff from the WB years, but then again Prince DID release such material thru NPGMC (again) and WB never moved, so maybe Mr. Leeds made a mistake?

If they were responsible for recording the concerts, then that makes sense. I guess the same extension probably applies too; ie. any recordings made while he's under contract, regardless of who technically did the recording. In that case, again, maybe he paid them a fee in order to release some live material? Maybe that's why the idea of doing that wore off fairly quickly?

Maybe he'll be more likely to release live concert footage once it's no longer in any way tied to WB?

(So much speculation, I know...)

As for Extraloveable I think he just digs rerecording songs and that he wouldn't release the old one outside of a proper archive project anyway, considering the violence of the lyrics (the "rape" thing). And The Dance Electric has nothing to do with WB since it was originally a CBS release (not sure who owns it now, since it's been rereleased twice lately).

Ah, ok. Yes, I realise there would be more than one reason for re-recording Extraloveable so that was probably a bad example and I didn't know that about TDE.

So far, we do have a single fact: Prince DID release a lot of WB-era material between 1998 and 2001 and Warner DID NOT move. It sure doesn't prove anything, though, I'll give you that.

Yeah - they might have reached an agreement for that material or they might have decided to let it slide for whatever reason.

But of course, ultimately we don't know either way. I just think that if there ARE still copyright issues with him releasing old vault material, then it would explain why he does it so rarely these days.

On the original subject of the thread, I'd like to see Prince sell lossless versions of the songs and albums he released through the NPG Music Club. Some bootleggers are selling pressed versions of this material that must be sourced from the original mp3 files. I bet a fair number of people would pay for a lossless version of The Chocolate Invasion or The Slaughterhouse. And it wouldn't raise any copyright problems.

i figure he wont be releasing anything that he wants to rework

RRA said:

Just for fun. Name songs/outtakes/alternate takes/remasters/concerts and so forth that you want Mr. P to upload for sale on 3rdeyegirl. Yes this is a request thread.

Here's one that will cause some Orgers to spit out their drink intakes: "Hot Summer."

I'll admit it, I liked that track. A nice B-52's inspired pop track, the sort suited for a female pop group to be quite frankly honest that surprisingly he didn't try to farm out to either any of his associates or just sell it in Hollywood. (I think Orgers commented that its something P would've given to Vanity 6 back in the day.)

But it would be nice to have this in good quality and not the recorded from radio audio quality that my, err "borrowed" version has.

I like hot summer.

And I would love to see the live footage of "Hot Summer" changed into "Purple Rain" at Werchter, 10 July 2010, Belgium.

Wonderful memories.

Wednesday from the orignal configuration of the Purple Rain album.

jeffreymiller said:

"Exodus" with Prince on lead vocals.

Welcome To America studio version + maybe a live soundboard recording of one of the performances...

Gold Nigga and The Rainbow Children albums instrumental

I think my number one want would be the original electric version of Welcome 2 The Dawn.

[Edited 2/25/13 12:16pm]

Bliss

electric intercourse

Moonbeam Levels

There others here with us. (creepy but...I love it)

all day all night

the sex of it

I wonder

Databank

[Edited 2/25/13 12:18pm]

3 nigs watching a kung fu movie.

NON cover songs.......

Crucial

5 Women

ganesh said:

Crucial

5 Women

this is already on a cd

bigd74 said:

ganesh said:

Crucial

5 Women

this is already on a cd

Both those tracks are officially released on CD.

CharlieRise said:

I think my number one want would be the original electric version of Welcome 2 The Dawn.

[Edited 2/25/13 12:16pm]

Good one!