Dear .Org,

I have noticed it mentioned it more than a few times - that the alleged sub-standard quality of Prince's newer releases - have made fans revisit his older works and consider them less harshly than when they first heard them.

Do you think it is the case that Prince's newer material is actually less like the quality we have become accustomed to? And has this made you revisit his work from previous eras with a more appreciative ear?

I can certainly see and understand that critique, as I now do tend to view certain albums in a significantly more understanding light than when I first heard them e.g. Chaos & Disorder, Emancipation, Newpower Soul and Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic. However, I thought the growing appreciation of any overlooked albums was more a reflection that I had gained sufficient 'distance' from the time/era, to now be able to better separate my expectations at the time with the actual product offered, thereby being able to judge the music solely on musical grounds nowadays (rather than be in any way affected by the PR, marketing, distribution methods, even other fan reviews at the time).

As a sidenote, I am even quite enjoying decidly questionable releases from the early-to-mid nineties (Mayte's Child of the Sun, NPG's Goldnigga and Carmen Electra) far more nowadays than I thought I would. But I put this somewhat embarrasing admission down to the fact that I quite enjoy hearing how Prince's production play out on his side projects alongside his mainstream albums of the time (rather than viewing the side projects as necessarily excellent albums in their own right).

Having said all of that, listening to Rock and Roll Love Affair nowadays has made me more fully appreciate Go, Go Dancer.

love,

Spirit

No.

not really. i only listen to his older music when i feel like it. same goes for new music. i HOT THING pretty much everytime i hear it and i first heard it, what 12 years ago? i wasn't feeling SAME PAGE... that much just now. loved it the first couple times. SCREWDRIVER would be on repeat, but it's not. neither is HOT THING or, etc.

KeithyT said:

Anji, sorry but this made me go "Ugh!" You put forward such a sweeping statement/concept. No is my answer.

Hold on to your wig, Keithy. It is not a reality/concept that I myself have bought into either, however, I did state that I had seen this theme being expressed more than a few times by others. Where I perhaps might differ from you is that I don't think that it's necessarily a bad or good thing; just one of a myriad of ways to appreciate art. Surely, nothing exists in a vacumm, or remains static over time, when it comes to our own subjective opinions of an artist's work?

love,

Spirit

.

[Edited 2/5/13 15:38pm]

Does having a second child make you like your 1st child more?

Nope. Not for me. It's not really a compare/contrast situation. New stuff doesn't affect my view of what's come before. Time, alternate versions of older material, and my changing life does, though.

"Let's Go Crazy" will always be what it is/was to me in 1984. Time (and maybe live/different performances of it) will make me appreciate it more.

"Screwdriver" just adds another piece/dimension/layer to the awesomeness of Prince. Doesn't change my view of "Let's Go Crazy" in the slightest.

No

SpiritOtter said:

Dear .Org,

I have noticed it mentioned it more than a few times - that the alleged sub-standard quality of Prince's newer releases - have made fans revisit his older works and consider them less harshly than when they first heard them.

i've bolded the key word in your entire post. to answer your question, NO. consistent flashes of brilliance on all his 90s and beyond albums. consistency? now that's another issue, but he shows repeatedly that he still has it.

SpiritOtter said:

Dear .Org,

I have noticed it mentioned it more than a few times - that the alleged sub-standard quality of Prince's newer releases - have made fans revisit his older works and consider them less harshly than when they first heard them.

Do you think it is the case that Prince's newer material is actually less like the quality we have become accustomed to? And has this made you revisit his work from previous eras with a more appreciative ear?

I can certainly see and understand that critique, as I now do tend to view certain albums in a significantly more understanding light than when I first heard them e.g. Chaos & Disorder, Emancipation, Newpower Soul and Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic. However, I thought the growing appreciation of any overlooked albums was more a reflection that I had gained sufficient 'distance' from the time/era, to now be able to better separate my expectations at the time with the actual product offered, thereby being able to judge the music solely on musical grounds nowadays (rather than be in any way affected by the PR, marketing, distribution methods, even other fan reviews at the time).

As a sidenote, I am even quite enjoying decidly questionable releases from the early-to-mid nineties (Mayte's Child of the Sun, NPG's Goldnigga and Carmen Electra) far more nowadays than I thought I would. But I put this somewhat embarrasing admission down to the fact that I quite enjoy hearing how Prince's production play out on his side projects alongside his mainstream albums of the time (rather than viewing the side projects as necessarily excellent albums in their own right).

Having said all of that, listening to Rock and Roll Love Affair nowadays has made me more fully appreciate Go, Go Dancer.

love,

Spirit

Go listen to Musicology, 3121 full albums, and try chelsea rodgers, dreamer, colonized mind and then tell me that the 2000s as been a shitty decade for prince.

First, Prince has released A LOT of music. I have always liked some of Prince's music more than the rest. Some of it falls in the middle. And some of it, for me, doesn't need to be listened to ever again.

Second, define "older". Prince has older music from ten years ago and older music from thirty five years ago. For me, he occasionally tosses something out into the ether that I think is a step above what he's been doing in the recent past. The Lotusflow3r album, as an example, was infinitely more satisfying than most of 3121 and Planet Earth (again, for me). But nothing he releases makes me re-visit the stuff I really don't like with any kind of new ear. Prince has released some stuff I just don't like and I'm OK with that (damn you Tony M).

Further 2 cents...

I never hated Chaos & Disorder. In fact, I wish he would rock that hard again across an entire album sometime. The issue with that album is that the songs themselves aren't some of the best he's ever written (to say the least). Musically, the actual playing, that's pretty solid.

Emancipation is bloated excess, but there's a really good album in there.

Newpower Soul... meh. Come On is my jam, Wasted Kisses is a hidden gem and The One became great in a live setting.

Mayte's Child of the Sun, NPG's Goldnigga and Carmen Electra, suck, suck and suck and NOTHING he does now could ever possibly change that.

Graycap23 said:

Do other artist go thru these old vs new arguments as much as Prince does?

Very few people who achieved the level of fame Prince had from the early 80s through at least the mid 90s have released as much music as he has. Further, even fewer of them have released so much music after the height of their popularity. However, yes, they do...

Metallica

Neil Young

Miles Davis was killed for it over the entirety of the second half of his career

I could actually list a rather exhaustive amount in many different genres, with many different levels of fame, but I think those three are good examples. It is definitely something artists/bands go through. Sometimes even those that have only released a few albums.

No, I like stuff from right back at the start to now, doesn't necesasrily mean I have to like every single thing that has been released. One person's junk is another's gem.

We should sometimes reflect on how good we've got it from this artist both in terms of quality, music styles and quantity. Maybe I'm old- fashioned having not grown up in the current microwave age where we just have to have everything instantly and discard it even quicker. Sometimes if you take the back road you discover new experiences that you would never have a hope to find flying past on the freeway. Maybe too many have been on the freeway in recent times.

teiemka said:

No, I like stuff from right back at the start to now, doesn't necesasrily mean I have to like every single thing that has been released. One person's junk is another's gem.

We should sometimes reflect on how good we've got it from this artist both in terms of quality, music styles and quantity. Maybe I'm old- fashioned having not grown up in the current microwave age where we just have to have everything instantly and discard it even quicker. Sometimes if you take the back road you discover new experiences that you would never have a hope to find flying past on the freeway. Maybe too many have been on the freeway in recent times.

Unfortunately, I think Prince has been on that road a bit too much in recent years as well. In my opinion, he's moved on from, or just completely ignored the albums he's recently released without so much as a wave goodbye. If he had stayed focused and worked them a bit harder they may have made a better impression on some people.

SpiritOtter said:

KeithyT said:

Anji, sorry but this made me go "Ugh!" You put forward such a sweeping statement/concept. No is my answer.

Hold on to your wig, Keithy.

love,

Spirit

.

[Edited 2/5/13 15:38pm]

Cerebus said:

teiemka said:

No, I like stuff from right back at the start to now, doesn't necesasrily mean I have to like every single thing that has been released. One person's junk is another's gem.

We should sometimes reflect on how good we've got it from this artist both in terms of quality, music styles and quantity. Maybe I'm old- fashioned having not grown up in the current microwave age where we just have to have everything instantly and discard it even quicker. Sometimes if you take the back road you discover new experiences that you would never have a hope to find flying past on the freeway. Maybe too many have been on the freeway in recent times.

Unfortunately, I think Prince has been on that road a bit too much in recent years as well. In my opinion, he's moved on from, or just completely ignored the albums he's recently released without so much as a wave goodbye. If he had stayed focused and worked them a bit harder they may have made a better impression on some people.

Is it really his job to do that? He gives us the music and if a person doesn't value it because they didn't hear it a zillion times on the radio or it was not presented in a neat bundle with pictures and lyrics is that on him?. Shit some people value 5th generation bootlegs of crappy sounding material.

What we value is more dependant of our personal values.

Cerebus said:

Mayte's Child of the Sun, NPG's Goldnigga and Carmen Electra, suck, suck and suck and NOTHING he does now could ever possibly change that.

Cerebus,

I could not disagree with you more.

Have you actually recently listened to the serious bassline/groove to Carmen On Top? That is Prince on FUNK overload. I bet you'll secretly dance/lip-synch in front of the mirror whilst you listen to her rapping on this jam.

On a more serious note, In Your Gracious Name is quite delightful, and I am quite partial to Prince's guitar frenzy alongside Michael B. and Sonny T.s delicious rumbling on Call The Law.

love,

Spirit

tricky99 said:

Cerebus said:

Unfortunately, I think Prince has been on that road a bit too much in recent years as well. In my opinion, he's moved on from, or just completely ignored the albums he's recently released without so much as a wave goodbye. If he had stayed focused and worked them a bit harder they may have made a better impression on some people.

Is it really his job to do that? He gives us the music and if a person doesn't value it because they didn't hear it a zillion times on the radio or it was not presented in a neat bundle with pictures and lyrics is that on him?. Shit some people value 5th generation bootlegs of crappy sounding material.

What we value is more dependant of our personal values.

Yes and no. If Prince hadn't been 100% invested in the entire Purple Rain project, would it have had the enormous cultural impact that it did?

If he had decided to bring the Sign O' the Times time tour to the USA would it have increased the success of that album?

Many times, focus and perception is reality. Presentation of a product/art counts for a lot. It matters.

[Edited 2/6/13 6:15am]

Most definitely. Not just because his music isn't as good as it used to be, but also because the entire mainstream music world these days is a bunch of "nothing" shit hop bullshit.

I've been going back and checking out tracks from many artists that I used to skip over and have been rediscovering some great stuff that I didn't listen to back then because my tastes had not expanded more like they have now. As for Prince's older stuff, I've worn the 1978-1984 albums out from the time they were in style on up to the present so in the last year or so, I've been going back and listening to a lot of the late 1980s albums beginning with "Around The World In A Day" through the "Lovesexy" period and have been absolutely loving them from start to finish, even the "Parade" album with it's elevator tracks. They really do show Prince's genius, talent, and diversity. Have I changed my opinion that he shouldn't have changed his style beginning in 1985? Hell no. Just because those late 1980s albums are absolutely wonderful still doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer his previous style over them and as long as a style is hot, don't end the party abruptly. That's like getting a blowjob and right before you get ready to come, the person giving it stops. Also, I'm 45 now and no longer in my late teens so yes, I do listen a lot more objectively now and appreciate more styles.

I like most of it, old and new, always have. Except for most of NPS, half of Rave, and several of those NPGMC tracks. the occasional shitty track in the last decade hasn't made me like them any more.

then again, there are several tracks I really don't care for on his 1980s heyday albums either. (ATWIAD, Controversy, Parade, SOTT, Lovesexy)

[Edited 2/6/13 8:51am]

tricky99 said:

Cerebus said:

Unfortunately, I think Prince has been on that road a bit too much in recent years as well. In my opinion, he's moved on from, or just completely ignored the albums he's recently released without so much as a wave goodbye. If he had stayed focused and worked them a bit harder they may have made a better impression on some people.

Is it really his job to do that? He gives us the music and if a person doesn't value it because they didn't hear it a zillion times on the radio or it was not presented in a neat bundle with pictures and lyrics is that on him?. Shit some people value 5th generation bootlegs of crappy sounding material.

What we value is more dependant of our personal values.

Is it his job, Prince's, specifically? At this point, no, it's his choice. Would it have made a difference? As skywalker pointed out, yes, it probably would have.

But I think you're also somewhat missing my point, or maybe just taking it in the wrong direction.

I don't really care about radio, because I don't listen to the radio. My point is more about releasing an album as a throwaway in an overseas newspaper (he is an American), never releasing it stateside. Or releasing nearly six albums of material, doing live shows after all of them and playing, maybe, ten songs in total from those albums. And even those he only plays for a minute before he goes back to the old standards mixed in with some cover tunes. So as a fan, it would seem to me that Prince places more value on somebody else's songs than he does his own.

The idea that I'm putting forward is that if he kept rotating ten or twelve new songs (full songs, that he actually played through) in his live sets, a place where fans and neophites alike still worship him, some people may view them differently, or place more value on them. As a result, the albums you can actually buy , would more than likely have sold more copies (and continue to sell), which is something he clearly still cares about.

I do think he tries occasionally, doing something like going on a talkshow and playing new songs. But then you go to see him live and he doesn't play any of those songs. So when a person sees him on one of those shows and likes that song, then never hears it again live, or gets any further promotion at all, it sends a very confusing message.

Personally, I think he could blow people's minds if he just up and did a tour with a rotating batch of 40-50 songs from 3121, Planet Earth, Lotusflow3r, MPLS and 20Ten. Folks wouldn't know what hit 'em. But from where I sit it looks like he either has no confidence, or no interest, in playing those songs.

SpiritOtter said:

Cerebus said:

Mayte's Child of the Sun, NPG's Goldnigga and Carmen Electra, suck, suck and suck and NOTHING he does now could ever possibly change that.

Cerebus,

I could not disagree with you more.

Have you actually recently listened to the serious bassline/groove to Carmen On Top? That is Prince on FUNK overload. I bet you'll secretly dance/lip-synch in front of the mirror whilst you listen to her rapping on this jam.

On a more serious note, In Your Gracious Name is quite delightful, and I am quite partial to Prince's guitar frenzy alongside Michael B. and Sonny T.s delicious rumbling on Call The Law.

love,

Spirit

Cool Spirit. I respect that we have a difference of opinion and are able to appreciate different aspects of Prince's long career. There is nothing that is going change my mind about the material I don't like, though. I've had many long years to reach those conclusions. There isn't going to be any new epiphanies at this point.

I will say that sometimes there is an occasional jam that I like separate from the album whole. And a lot of the music on Goldnigga is actually very solid. But for me, the album as a whole is a torturous listen.

Cerebus said:

tricky99 said:

Is it really his job to do that? He gives us the music and if a person doesn't value it because they didn't hear it a zillion times on the radio or it was not presented in a neat bundle with pictures and lyrics is that on him?. Shit some people value 5th generation bootlegs of crappy sounding material.

What we value is more dependant of our personal values.

Is it his job, Prince's, specifically? At this point, no, it's his choice. Would it have made a difference? As skywalker pointed out, yes, it probably would have.

But I think you're also somewhat missing my point, or maybe just taking it in the wrong direction.

I don't really care about radio, because I don't listen to the radio. My point is more about releasing an album as a throwaway in an overseas newspaper (he is an American), never releasing it stateside. Or releasing nearly six albums of material, doing live shows after all of them and playing, maybe, ten songs in total from those albums. And even those he only plays for a minute before he goes back to the old standards mixed in with some cover tunes. So as a fan, it would seem to me that Prince places more value on somebody else's songs than he does his own.

The idea that I'm putting forward is that if he kept rotating ten or twelve new songs (full songs, that he actually played through) in his live sets, a place where fans and neophites alike still worship him, some people may view them differently, or place more value on them. As a result, the albums you can actually buy , would more than likely have sold more copies (and continue to sell), which is something he clearly still cares about.

I do think he tries occasionally, doing something like going on a talkshow and playing new songs. But then you go to see him live and he doesn't play any of those songs. So when a person sees him on one of those shows and likes that song, then never hears it again live, or gets any further promotion at all, it sends a very confusing message.

Personally, I think he could blow people's minds if he just up and did a tour with a rotating batch of 40-50 songs from 3121, Planet Earth, Lotusflow3r, MPLS and 20Ten. Folks wouldn't know what hit 'em. But from where I sit it looks like he either has no confidence, or no interest, in playing those songs.

Yes. Believe it, or not. Prince DOES dictate where the audience's focus is. Just look at all the attention "Screwdriver" is getting. He is promoting it.

Again, Prince is responsible for showcasing his art and himself. He knows this and is still able to do it ferociously. Every year could be 1984/2004 if he pushed his purple agenda. A man who wears his clothes, has his talents, and breaths music so easily definitely knows how to grab/hold attention and Prince knows how to manipulate/move a crowd. He just seems to pick and choose when he wants to.

[Edited 2/6/13 11:17am]

eehhh...not really...mostly everything after 1996 has "shit" the bed.....

it seems to me that most people listen to prince obsessively when the music first comes out

what drew people to prince was that he .. like zeppelin .. took numerous influences and conjealed them into one sweeping, dare I say, improvement

the old prince not only broke new ground but produced music, with the help of many others in his crew, that held up on repeated listen

the reason an old album like chaos or nps sound better later in life is likely due to the a lesser emphasis on obsessive scrutiny of the music

for example .. i really loved a lot of prince later music on first listen .. i even found npgmc duds like funky design or the p exciting and entertaining on some level .. i even liked that horrible p control song to be good ..

after repeated obsessive listening .. they get annoying .. particularly the lyrical delivery

unlike prince prime work in the 80's where there only reason i won't like a song is because i have heard it too many times .. not because there is anything about the song that is not awesome .. these were awesome songs top to bottom nearly flawless

so it is very easy to put on an old cd that i kind of stopped liking and put it on in the background and not listen that closely and kind of like it .. yup because i am not listening to it closely .. not hearing the lyrics .. and the fact is .. prince still has a lot of quality musical ideas ..

so there you have it .. prince makes great background music for prince fans who don't listen to the actual music and lyrics

the other aspect detering from prince modern success is that he does not do anything new .. as in .. his albums sound either like yet another one of his crappy ballads or funk jams and they are just the same old boring sounds and grooves he always uses .. there is no wierd new unique stuff like he used to bring to the table .. except funny enough .. his lyrics .. which are his most wierdest thing in his music .. but unfortunately his lyrics mostly suck these days .. wierd but sucky

musically he uses stock sounds like auto tune and just all around boring synths and guitar tones .. so there is nothing new to the ear anymore .. its nothing to do with nostalgia it has everything to do with prince conforming to the standard boring sounds of todays and yesterdays pop music .. coupled with bad rapping and stock songwriting

it is easy to put on an old prince record from an old worn out era that flopped and find it "not so bad after all" but put that record on like you did when it was new .. on repeat for a couple days .. and you will find the same annoying elements that made you stop listening to those tunes in the first place

just like you can listen to beiber and not hate it the first time .. you will eventually

try to hate sign ot the times .. pretty much impossible

Definitely! The worse the new music the more you appreciate the old one.

I was only just burn in 1985, and Prince seemed like a creepy little asshole to me as a kid growing up in the 90's. I don't compare any of his new music with the old when I first hear it; I don't have any nostalgic trappings or romantic retrospective vision. I just want to hear good music, and Prince's last seven or so albums have been bad by any general standards. He isn't in competition with his old self; he's in competition with countless acts today who are blowing him away with their new music and making him look like an embarrassing amateur in the studio.

PurpleKnight said:

I was only just burn in 1985, and Prince seemed like a creepy little asshole to me as a kid growing up in the 90's. I don't compare any of his new music with the old when I first hear it; I don't have any nostalgic trappings or romantic retrospective vision. I just want to hear good music, and Prince's last seven or so albums have been bad by any general standards. He isn't in competition with his old self; he's in competition with countless acts today who are blowing him away with their new music and making him look like an embarrassing amateur in the studio.

So what got you into Prince exactly?

Born 1985 - no nostalgic trappings/romantic retrospective vision

90s - creepy little asshole

Last 7 albums - bad by any general standards, embarrassingly amateur.

Although you don't state that you have now heard the albums from 1978-1989, I'm assuming you have? What on earth possessed you to listen to them in the first place.

Conversely, if If you haven't heard them yet, what on earth possessed you to listen to his last seven albums or so?

[Edited 2/7/13 3:01am]

One of the benefits of being born in 1991 and only having gotten into Prince in 2007/2008. Everything is still relatively fresh to me so I don't see things as old or new.