IstenSzek said:

like a lot of the gold experience, i think the dirty, rougher

cuts were sadly cut or over produced since it took so damn

long to get that album released. he had too much time to

keep piling on the cowbells and the cheesy effects.

I agree.TGE is a terrific album,but some of the tracks sound overproduced.While waiting for Warners to finally release it,he spent a year tinkering with the songs,adding more bells and whistles.

imago said:

Kurt Cobain & Alanis Morrisette

1995 was deep into the post-Cobain, Alanis Morrisette period.

The 'alternative music' movement was falling apart, but the quazi pop-rock 'alt-rock' sound that was inspired by them was in full swing. The Gold Experience arrived on shelves a year too late, with almost no promotion since Prince had promoted it a year before, in a music landscape that had become so heavily influenced by the late 80s post-modern, art-rock, indie scene that Prince's hip-hop infused pop music wasn't going to compete well.

The what scene? How about Gold just being an average song?

Quasi, pseudo nonsense.

Tremolina said:

imago said:

Kurt Cobain & Alanis Morrisette

The what scene? How about Gold just being an average song?

Quasi, pseudo nonsense.

Sometimes the simple explanation is the most fitting.

imago said:

Kurt Cobain & Alanis Morrisette

1995 was deep into the post-Cobain, Alanis Morrisette period.

The 'alternative music' movement was falling apart, but the quazi pop-rock 'alt-rock' sound that was inspired by them was in full swing. The Gold Experience arrived on shelves a year too late, with almost no promotion since Prince had promoted it a year before, in a music landscape that had become so heavily influenced by the late 80s post-modern, art-rock, indie scene that Prince's hip-hop infused pop music wasn't going to compete well.

Prince's opportunity for a big hit with The Gold Experience was 1993 when The Most Beautiful Girl in the World was dropped. After that, the music scene had changed too much.

Couple that with the fact that Clear Channel had bought and killed most of their competition and set the American listening audience on a path of station consolidation where we heard the same 100 songs over-and-over again, and Prince had little chance.

His temper tantrum with Warners--the company distributing and promoting his material didn't help either.

But yeah, Kurt Cobain.

Not to mention, how was WB supposed to promote a guy that was complaining about them publicly and writing SLAVE on his face? Plus, the media was more concerned with making fun of his name change to an unpronouncable symbol two years earlier. That's all anyone wanted to talk about when discussing Prince. He had gotten just too weird and hard to understand for the masses.

Or, so it seemed from my vantage point... Personally, I thought the song (and the album) was great!

Tremolina said:

imago said:

Kurt Cobain & Alanis Morrisette

1995 was deep into the post-Cobain, Alanis Morrisette period.

The 'alternative music' movement was falling apart, but the quazi pop-rock 'alt-rock' sound that was inspired by them was in full swing. The Gold Experience arrived on shelves a year too late, with almost no promotion since Prince had promoted it a year before, in a music landscape that had become so heavily influenced by the late 80s post-modern, art-rock, indie scene that Prince's hip-hop infused pop music wasn't going to compete well.

The what scene? How about Gold just being an average song?

Quasi, pseudo nonsense.

If that is the case,

then I Prince being "average"..

nono, I really disagree w. you: "Gold" is a fine pop/rock kind of anthem song,

at least imo. One of his best tracks off the 90's.

IstenSzek said:

SoulAlive said:

in retrospect,"319" should have been the second single.Releasing two mellow singles in a row wasn't a smart move,especially from an album filled with alot of great uptempo tracks.

wasn't it intended as a single as some point though?

like a double a side release together with p control?

i seem to remember seeing a promo of that a long time ago.

there was a cool live version of 319 on one of the glam slam

releases from 93/94 iirc that was a bit longer and it just had

this guitar, bass and drum bit at the end that was very cool.

it sounded a bit more gritty and dirty.

like a lot of the gold experience, i think the dirty, rougher

cuts were sadly cut or over produced since it took so damn

long to get that album released. he had too much time to

keep piling on the cowbells and the cheesy effects.

I think we had that discussion in Amsterdam back then!

And while I completely understand where you're coming from, I must say I love the bombastic slickness of TGE the way it is. I don't think it would have the same contrasting, effectful, euphoric, glittery feel if it weren't that way.

If Dirty Mind were polished it would lose its integrity and style. If Parade were overproduced and polished, it would lose its charm. But if TGE didn't have 40 tracks per song, recorded in a perfect environment and compressed to death to make it LOUD, it simply wouldn't be Golden.

Dave1992 said:

IstenSzek said:

wasn't it intended as a single as some point though?

like a double a side release together with p control?

i seem to remember seeing a promo of that a long time ago.

there was a cool live version of 319 on one of the glam slam

releases from 93/94 iirc that was a bit longer and it just had

this guitar, bass and drum bit at the end that was very cool.

it sounded a bit more gritty and dirty.

like a lot of the gold experience, i think the dirty, rougher

cuts were sadly cut or over produced since it took so damn

long to get that album released. he had too much time to

keep piling on the cowbells and the cheesy effects.

I think we had that discussion in Amsterdam back then!

And while I completely understand where you're coming from, I must say I love the bombastic slickness of TGE the way it is. I don't think it would have the same contrasting, effectful, euphoric, glittery feel if it weren't that way.

If Dirty Mind were polished it would lose its integrity and style. If Parade were overproduced and polished, it would lose its charm. But if TGE didn't have 40 tracks per song, recorded in a perfect environment and compressed to death to make it LOUD, it simply wouldn't be Golden.

well i can't argue with that, lol. and i did listen to some of the 'early' versions of gold experience

tracks yesterday after posting on this thread and although some of them work better for me, it's

a fact that this whole 'overproduced' sound is what makes this album unique.

For me its not a matter of overproduction, its poor arrangement choice on the song "Gold". I quite like the production on some other tracks.

SuperSoulFighter said:

I'll stick with my own theory that by 1995 the pop world was getting a Prince/ OD.

Nothing went right for him in those days!

A "Prince over dose"..?

Yes, that sounds like what happened, my thoughts too.

The "big masses" weren't hungry for Prince music at that point, -- in '95 right after the release of The Hits/ the B-sides.

Even though The Most Beautiful Girl In The World was a smash hit, Prince was still struggeling to sell his records, / albums.

Right?

People on both sides of this argument are making equally true statements. "Gold" is a marvelous song, but most casual listeners wouldn't realize it because of the "uncool" production. Even some hardcore fans have a resistance to it for the same reason. I remember at the time most black people I knew who weren't Prince fans really had a barrier to that song. One of them told me it "sounds like Bryan Adams or something".

This has actually been a feature of Prince's whole career. He can make really funky, cool stuff like "Alphabet Street" or "Gett Off" and then really uncool stuff in styles like rockabilly or soft rock which are alienating to many listeners.

When "Thieves In The Temple" came out a friend of mine loved it and asked to borrow the album. But he didn't get past the first track because the rockabilly vibe of CSTFIG was so offensive to him. I felt sorry for him because CSTFIG is actually a great song but I realized you have to be open-minded to be a Prince fan and most people aren't.

The same thing is true with country music. It sounds kind of square, but a good song is a good song, so I can listen to the best of it and not be put off by the okie sound.

[Edited 1/25/13 5:14am]

GottaLetitgo said:

With all due respect to those not enamored with the song's sound, I don't think that the song not being a hit had anything to do with hard edged sounds on pop radio in 1995. Kurt died in 1994 and grunge along with him (Pearl Jam being one of the few holdouts but they would never be as big again as they were during that 91-93 period).

Pop music in 1995 was careening toward blandness and safeness. Hootie and the Blowfish had the biggest album of the time period. Damosuzuki alluded to the hits of 1995 earlier; here were the number one songs of 95:

On Bended Knee (Boyz II Men)

Creep (TLC)

Take a Bow (Madonna)

This is How We Do It (Montell Jordan)

Have You Really Ever Loved a Woman (Bryan Adams)

Waterfalls (TLC)

Kiss From a Rose (Seal)

You are Not Alone (MJ)

Gangstas Paradise (Coolio)

Fantasy (Mariah Carey)

Exhale (Whitney Houston)

One Sweet Day (Boyz II Men)

Now I happen to like a lot of these songs but if Bryan Adams could have hit number 1 with that crappy song, Gold could and should have at least hit Top 40 if not for both Prince and WB abandoning the song.

[Edited 12/31/12 11:21am]

The majority of those songs fall into the ever-popular category of soppy love song. There's always been a market for that and always will be. The reason Prince had his only UK number 1 in 1994 with TMBGITW is because it also fell into the category of soppy love song. But "Gold" is not in that category.

The two or three songs in that list that aren't soppy love songs fall into the category of mellow R&B/ hip hop. "Gold" is not in that category either. It's got a soft rock sound with synths on top which would have sounded pretty tame next to Alanis and Nirvana. Pop listeners would've been the most responsive to that type of sound, but most of them were indifferent or hostile to Prince.

[Edited 1/7/13 3:21am]

SoulAlive said:

in retrospect,"319" should have been the second single.Releasing two mellow singles in a row wasn't a smart move,especially from an album filled with alot of great uptempo tracks.

Please give me your address. I'm going to buy you a ticket to the funny farm and send it to you immediately. All expenses paid. If there's anything else I can do to help, don't hesitate to ask.

Yes!

RRA said:

trax said:

i think Endorphinemachine or Dolphin would have done better as a single choice

This.

Nirvana was badass. They could have emerged today and be successful. They could have emerged in the 80's and been successful. 70's you name it. Good is good. We are fooling ourselves when we blame radio, the record label, the times. Bullshit. Art stands on it's own or it doesn't.

80's Prince could have emerged today and been successful. 80's Prince could have emerged in the 90's and been successful. He was crafting incredible timeless music. Gold isn't that.

This song is excellent, of course I would have loved and would Love if Prince adds more a longer guitar solo onto it

The US people have really weird choices....

Don't figure out why it didn't explode the ciling over there; maybe because Prince's conflict with WB, therefore, the most of american fans felt eager to support WB instead of their preferred artist...

[Edited 1/5/13 4:31am]

thedance said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

I'll stick with my own theory that by 1995 the pop world was getting a Prince/ OD.

Nothing went right for him in those days!

A "Prince over dose"..?

Yes, that sounds like what happened, my thoughts too.

The "big masses" weren't hungry for Prince music at that point, -- in '95 right after the release of The Hits/ the B-sides.

Even though The Most Beautiful Girl In The World was a smash hit, Prince was still struggeling to sell his records, / albums.

Right?

At that point, I don't think it was an issue of Prince selling records. I think it had a lot to do with the name change, strange outfits and him trying to compete in an everchanging music business.

By the time 1993 rolled around, Prince had been a household name for at least 14 or 15 years. He had established himself as being a talented musician, singer and songwriter. The younger audience was moving toward different types of music (grunge, ballady r&b, hip-hop, alternative, etc.) and Prince's music didn't really fit in with the masses anymore. So, when he released TMBGITW, it was a brilliant move because it's as if he came up with a beautiful pop ballad that was played on multiple formats (from smooth jazz to urban). It was as if he had grown up with his audience.

I think the big nail in the coffin of his popular career came with the WB dispute and writing "Slave" on his face. For someone that may not have followed music and saw him performing with that on his face, it could take on a negative connotation. With him not giving interviews much or being on television to promote his other projects that were dropping like flies (TGE, Come, The Black Album, Girl 6, etc.), it just seemed to the masses that he was off his rocker and unfocused.

With Emancipation, it seemed as if he was trying to sell us a softer Prince, and it WORKED!

Back to TGE, I think that if he had released different singles, the album would have been more successful. However, by the time the album came out, Prince was WAY over this project. He had been performing some of these songs since around 93 or so and he was ready to move on to the next chapter in his music.

As for sales, sure his sales dropped, but at the time, he was still selling close to a half-million per release (for the most part). That's a big drop from the millions he had sold in the past, but still nothing to spit at.

i am enjoying the nirvana references so i will add ...

nirvana killed heavy metal just as prince was embracing it

to be clear .. the retarded cheesy dirty booze and drug soaked lyrics that heavy metal often had .. rap had also adopted this approach and pop music (while i enjoy metal) was at its worst lyrically in both rock and funk pop spheres ... then along comes prince who completely abandons all lyrical sophistacation previously present and drops one of the lyrically worst, corny, cheesy sex and drug referenced albums of his career .. right when nirvana had just come along to show how stupid the pop music of the day really was

to me it was the horror of 'now' or the 'think tank' in endorphine or the clutter of 'p control' or the 'wtf' of dolphin or the um 'there goes the grandma and kiddie sales of 'i hate u' and the pure cheese of the wizard of oz outtake 'gold' that killed this record. nirvana still sounds good today .. gold is an embarassment .. thank u nirvana for setting the lyrical bar in pop music for at least a little while we got a break from horrible lyrics on the radio .. too bad hip hop came back with even worse lyrics .. i guess somebody had to sell records to 11 year olds

I remember when I had my mom buy the gold experience cassette for me the day of its release in 10th grade and when I put the tape in my walkman and had my mom listen to the opening track, pussy control, I remember her saying...."that sounds like Automatic" and then she gave it back to me. I would always go to turtles record store after school and would see the cassette single for "gold" and would always wonder what the bside "rock n roll is alive (and it lives in minneapolis" sounded like and I waited 10 years to get the 45 and do you know that song is the funkiest thing that came out of the gold experience. I played 45 for gold last year and it sounds more like a 90's alternative rock song than anything. I saw gold experience cd at the goodwill and didnt have the urgency to want to buy it because I thought that the cd itself was just ok.

thedance said:

By my memory I think the "GOLD" single back in '95 only made it to #93 on the US hit charts.

(But the song was still a top 10 in UK, IIRC?)

Why do U think this song, the "Purple Rain" of the 90's was such a flop back then..?

It really is a mystery to me, great song, and a very great music video too.

Still the americans did not like it..

Why do U think that..

NouveauDance said:

Bad timing, little promo. Considering this, the more wonderous question might be 'why did it do so well in the UK?'

because it actually got played on the radio and made some dj's record of the week.

SoulAlive said:

daPrettyman said:

I always thought "319" was one of the weaker up tempo songs on the album. I would have prefered "Billy Jack Bitch" to be released as a single.

"319" was the "Kiss" of the 90s it's classic Prince

319 is my least favourite track from the album, which is in my top 4 Prince albums.

V10LETBLUES said:

Nirvana was badass. They could have emerged today and be successful. They could have emerged in the 80's and been successful. 70's you name it. Good is good. We are fooling ourselves when we blame radio, the record label, the times. Bullshit. Art stands on it's own or it doesn't.

80's Prince could have emerged today and been successful. 80's Prince could have emerged in the 90's and been successful. He was crafting incredible timeless music. Gold isn't that.

Recognition of greatness is not the same as greatness itself. Shit music is often sucessful and great music often slips below the radar. It's naive to assume that quality translates into popularity. It's just not that simple.

TrevorAyer said:

i am enjoying the nirvana references so i will add ...

nirvana killed heavy metal just as prince was embracing it

to be clear .. the retarded cheesy dirty booze and drug soaked lyrics that heavy metal often had .. rap had also adopted this approach and pop music (while i enjoy metal) was at its worst lyrically in both rock and funk pop spheres ... then along comes prince who completely abandons all lyrical sophistacation previously present and drops one of the lyrically worst, corny, cheesy sex and drug referenced albums of his career .. right when nirvana had just come along to show how stupid the pop music of the day really was

to me it was the horror of 'now' or the 'think tank' in endorphine or the clutter of 'p control' or the 'wtf' of dolphin or the um 'there goes the grandma and kiddie sales of 'i hate u' and the pure cheese of the wizard of oz outtake 'gold' that killed this record. nirvana still sounds good today .. gold is an embarassment .. thank u nirvana for setting the lyrical bar in pop music for at least a little while we got a break from horrible lyrics on the radio .. too bad hip hop came back with even worse lyrics .. i guess somebody had to sell records to 11 year olds

Nirvana were cool, but the best lyricist in mainstream music at that time was not Kirt Cobain, but Alanis Morissette. Unlike Cobain though she lived long enough to tarnish her reputation with sloppy albums and such. Cobain got it right. Make an impact then disappear sharpish before people get tired of you.

midnightmover said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Nirvana was badass. They could have emerged today and be successful. They could have emerged in the 80's and been successful. 70's you name it. Good is good. We are fooling ourselves when we blame radio, the record label, the times. Bullshit. Art stands on it's own or it doesn't.

80's Prince could have emerged today and been successful. 80's Prince could have emerged in the 90's and been successful. He was crafting incredible timeless music. Gold isn't that.

Recognition of greatness is not the same as greatness itself. Shit music is often sucessful and great music often slips below the radar. It's naive to assume that quality translates into popularity. It's just not that simple.

Also keeping in mind that radio DJ's are basically told what to play and how often to play it. There are so few who can actually spin what they want on a consistent basis. If I had a radio station and could play what I want to a large demographic you'd hear more people talking about Prince, Nikka Costa, J'Davey and Van Hunt and a lot less chatter about Chris Brown and Rihanna in that area.

HonestMan13 said:

midnightmover said:

Recognition of greatness is not the same as greatness itself. Shit music is often sucessful and great music often slips below the radar. It's naive to assume that quality translates into popularity. It's just not that simple.

Also keeping in mind that radio DJ's are basically told what to play and how often to play it. There are so few who can actually spin what they want on a consistent basis. If I had a radio station and could play what I want to a large demographic you'd hear more people talking about Prince, Nikka Costa, J'Davey and Van Hunt and a lot less chatter about Chris Brown and Rihanna in that area.

But Prince in the early 90's was not an obscure indie act that would slip "under the radar."

I think plenty of people listened and passed.

imago said:

Kurt Cobain & Alanis Morrisette

1995 was deep into the post-Cobain, Alanis Morrisette period.

The 'alternative music' movement was falling apart, but the quazi pop-rock 'alt-rock' sound that was inspired by them was in full swing. The Gold Experience arrived on shelves a year too late, with almost no promotion since Prince had promoted it a year before, in a music landscape that had become so heavily influenced by the late 80s post-modern, art-rock, indie scene that Prince's hip-hop infused pop music wasn't going to compete well.

Prince's opportunity for a big hit with The Gold Experience was 1993 when The Most Beautiful Girl in the World was dropped. After that, the music scene had changed too much.

Couple that with the fact that Clear Channel had bought and killed most of their competition and set the American listening audience on a path of station consolidation where we heard the same 100 songs over-and-over again, and Prince had little chance.

His temper tantrum with Warners--the company distributing and promoting his material didn't help either.

But yeah, Kurt Cobain.

THIS^^

Plus the song is just not that good.

imago said:

Kurt Cobain & Alanis Morrisette

1995 was deep into the post-Cobain, Alanis Morrisette period.

The 'alternative music' movement was falling apart, but the quazi pop-rock 'alt-rock' sound that was inspired by them was in full swing. The Gold Experience arrived on shelves a year too late, with almost no promotion since Prince had promoted it a year before, in a music landscape that had become so heavily influenced by the late 80s post-modern, art-rock, indie scene that Prince's hip-hop infused pop music wasn't going to compete well.

Prince's opportunity for a big hit with The Gold Experience was 1993 when The Most Beautiful Girl in the World was dropped. After that, the music scene had changed too much.

Couple that with the fact that Clear Channel had bought and killed most of their competition and set the American listening audience on a path of station consolidation where we heard the same 100 songs over-and-over again, and Prince had little chance.

His temper tantrum with Warners--the company distributing and promoting his material didn't help either.

But yeah, Kurt Cobain.

I would say Kurt Cobain and Dre/Snoop/Tupac

Prince didn't fit in anywhere at that point. I was amazed that Gold got as much play on VH1 as it did.

Hell, I hated the Gold Experience when I first heard it

V10LETBLUES said:

HonestMan13 said:

Also keeping in mind that radio DJ's are basically told what to play and how often to play it. There are so few who can actually spin what they want on a consistent basis. If I had a radio station and could play what I want to a large demographic you'd hear more people talking about Prince, Nikka Costa, J'Davey and Van Hunt and a lot less chatter about Chris Brown and Rihanna in that area.

But Prince in the early 90's was not an obscure indie act that would slip "under the radar."

It happens all the time. When artists are no longer hot they reach a point where the quality of their work becomes irrelevant since people just aren't paying attention anymore.

Prince was past his best by this point, but he was still better than most of the younger artists coming up at the time. He just wasn't "in" anymore. And, as others have said, his questionable production choices, ever-deteriorating dress sense and nutty behaviour really sealed the deal in most peoples' minds. They filed Prince in the mental drawer marked "over" and that was that. Only a masterpiece could've saved him at that point and "Gold" - though good - wasn't quite that.