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Thread started 12/27/12 2:08am

Jerky

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Billy Jack Bitch (Extended Version) appreciation

For those of you who haven't listened to this in a while, do yourself a favour.

When it goes into the extended part it gets so damn funky and really hints to what a Prince & Madhouse album would sound like.

Who would like to hear that? A Prince & Madhouse album & tour!? With an jazz orchestra of Eric, Matt, Renato, Sheila, hornheadz, Rhonda, Levi??

I'm off to listen to it again!
“Tuna, you better do something or else we gonna have to put you back in the can!”
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Reply #1 posted 12/27/12 2:10am

PuRpLeCiRcLe

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Jerky said:

For those of you who haven't listened to this in a while, do yourself a favour. When it goes into the extended part it gets so damn funky and really hints to what a Prince & Madhouse album would sound like. Who would like to hear that? A Prince & Madhouse album & tour!? With an jazz orchestra of Eric, Matt, Renato, Sheila, hornheadz, Rhonda, Levi?? I'm off to listen to it again!

PuRpLe CiRcLe
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Reply #2 posted 12/27/12 2:26am

erik319

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Jerky said:

For those of you who haven't listened to this in a while, do yourself a favour. When it goes into the extended part it gets so damn funky and really hints to what a Prince & Madhouse album would sound like. Who would like to hear that? A Prince & Madhouse album & tour!? With an jazz orchestra of Eric, Matt, Renato, Sheila, hornheadz, Rhonda, Levi?? I'm off to listen to it again!

I don't really understand the Prince & Madhouse tour implications from listening to Billy Jack Bitch. Besides, he did that with the Sign o The Times tour.

Plus, if you look at that list of musicians, there's very few he hasn't fucked over/pissed off, so it would be unlikely that they would get back together. Good song though, it's one of my favourites from the Gold era. cool

blah blah blah
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Reply #3 posted 12/27/12 9:45am

thedance

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Great song. Yeah... I love the whole album too.

music

Prince 4Ever. heart
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Reply #4 posted 12/27/12 9:52am

lwr001

erik319 said:

Jerky said:

For those of you who haven't listened to this in a while, do yourself a favour. When it goes into the extended part it gets so damn funky and really hints to what a Prince & Madhouse album would sound like. Who would like to hear that? A Prince & Madhouse album & tour!? With an jazz orchestra of Eric, Matt, Renato, Sheila, hornheadz, Rhonda, Levi?? I'm off to listen to it again!

I don't really understand the Prince & Madhouse tour implications from listening to Billy Jack Bitch. Besides, he did that with the Sign o The Times tour.

Plus, if you look at that list of musicians, there's very few he hasn't fucked over/pissed off, so it would be unlikely that they would get back together. Good song though, it's one of my favourites from the Gold era. cool

What eveidence do you have that he fucked over/pissed off all his musicians.. Eric Leeds said it best "its his vision" not theirs. Disagreements happen all the time in music; doesnlt mean that if called they wouldn;t jump at the opportunity to play

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Reply #5 posted 12/27/12 11:42am

Jerky

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erik319 said:



Jerky said:


For those of you who haven't listened to this in a while, do yourself a favour. When it goes into the extended part it gets so damn funky and really hints to what a Prince & Madhouse album would sound like. Who would like to hear that? A Prince & Madhouse album & tour!? With an jazz orchestra of Eric, Matt, Renato, Sheila, hornheadz, Rhonda, Levi?? I'm off to listen to it again!


I don't really understand the Prince & Madhouse tour implications from listening to Billy Jack Bitch. Besides, he did that with the Sign o The Times tour.



Plus, if you look at that list of musicians, there's very few he hasn't fucked over/pissed off, so it would be unlikely that they would get back together. Good song though, it's one of my favourites from the Gold era. cool





The jazz horn section of the extended version at the end is very reminiscent of Madhouse. Not looking for an argument man. Just an opinion.

I'd like to think all those musicians would jump at the chance to work with Prince again.
“Tuna, you better do something or else we gonna have to put you back in the can!”
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Reply #6 posted 12/27/12 2:56pm

ganesh

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I really appreciate this song, but never heard any extended version

We make our own way to heaven everyday
"The only Love there is, is the Love we make"
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Reply #7 posted 12/27/12 3:10pm

stillwaiting

lwr001 said:

erik319 said:

I don't really understand the Prince & Madhouse tour implications from listening to Billy Jack Bitch. Besides, he did that with the Sign o The Times tour.

Plus, if you look at that list of musicians, there's very few he hasn't fucked over/pissed off, so it would be unlikely that they would get back together. Good song though, it's one of my favourites from the Gold era. cool

What eveidence do you have that he fucked over/pissed off all his musicians.. Eric Leeds said it best "its his vision" not theirs. Disagreements happen all the time in music; doesnlt mean that if called they wouldn;t jump at the opportunity to play

Ha, this made me laugh. Prince is notorious for not paying bills, and not paying band members. For a bit, it's ok, cuz they get attention playing with a legend, but if you've ever seen the cars his band members drive around in, you get the idea they are not in an ideal situation. Prince bitched about Warners screwing him over, but turns around and treats others like total shit.

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Reply #8 posted 12/27/12 6:16pm

haleno1

Billy Jack Bitch has something to do with a certain Angelo Moore I believe wink
Business Manager to Cat Glover.
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Reply #9 posted 12/28/12 5:25am

kenkamken

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haleno1 said:

Billy Jack Bitch has something to do with a certain Angelo Moore I believe wink


Angelo is sampled, but I would love to hear a real collaboration. That was funny when Jimmy Fallon had Michelle Bachmann on, and Questlove played the Fishbone song. I love the Thelonious "sample" thrown in, great song.
"So fierce U look 2night, the brightest star pales 2 Ur sex..."
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Reply #10 posted 12/28/12 6:57am

erik319

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Jerky said:

erik319 said:



Jerky said:


For those of you who haven't listened to this in a while, do yourself a favour. When it goes into the extended part it gets so damn funky and really hints to what a Prince & Madhouse album would sound like. Who would like to hear that? A Prince & Madhouse album & tour!? With an jazz orchestra of Eric, Matt, Renato, Sheila, hornheadz, Rhonda, Levi?? I'm off to listen to it again!


I don't really understand the Prince & Madhouse tour implications from listening to Billy Jack Bitch. Besides, he did that with the Sign o The Times tour.



Plus, if you look at that list of musicians, there's very few he hasn't fucked over/pissed off, so it would be unlikely that they would get back together. Good song though, it's one of my favourites from the Gold era. cool





The jazz horn section of the extended version at the end is very reminiscent of Madhouse. Not looking for an argument man. Just an opinion.

I'd like to think all those musicians would jump at the chance to work with Prince again.



If you haven't already got it, you might wanna track down the TKO album. The instrumental tracks give (in my opinion) a good indication of how a Hornheadz/ slightly different direction Madhouse album might have sounded wink
blah blah blah
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Reply #11 posted 12/28/12 7:05am

erik319

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lwr001 said:



erik319 said:




Jerky said:


For those of you who haven't listened to this in a while, do yourself a favour. When it goes into the extended part it gets so damn funky and really hints to what a Prince & Madhouse album would sound like. Who would like to hear that? A Prince & Madhouse album & tour!? With an jazz orchestra of Eric, Matt, Renato, Sheila, hornheadz, Rhonda, Levi?? I'm off to listen to it again!


I


Plus, if you look at that list of musicians, there's very few he hasn't fucked over/pissed off, so it would be unlikely that they would get back together. Good song though, it's one of my favourites from the Gold era. cool



What eveidence do you have that he fucked over/pissed off all his musicians.. Eric Leeds said it best "its his vision" not theirs. Disagreements happen all the time in music; doesnlt mean that if called they wouldn;t jump at the opportunity to play



Seriously? See that little search box top right? A few choice words there will show you how he (quite recently) treat musicians such as Wendy, Lisa & the NPG Trio. Failing that, you might wanna look into how he treat the recent Time/Fdeluxe situations... Or you could always track down one of the interviews Rosie gave regarding unpaid bills.. Or Sheila's Twitter account...

Have fun!
blah blah blah
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Reply #12 posted 12/28/12 8:05am

robertlove

Extended version? Was this an official release?

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Reply #13 posted 12/28/12 8:10am

erik319

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robertlove said:

Extended version? Was this an official release?

No. I Think it's on Work it. The horn section goes off on one at the end, much longer than on the album version.

blah blah blah
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Reply #14 posted 12/28/12 8:43am

thedance

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robertlove said:

Extended version? Was this an official release?

I only have the boots called The Work series: 20-CDs = 5x 4 CDs each box.,

it is not official.... but a great song/ I heart the ext version for sure..!

Prince 4Ever. heart
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Reply #15 posted 12/28/12 11:16am

Adisa

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ganesh said:

I really appreciate this song, but never heard any extended version

Me neither.

I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired!
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Reply #16 posted 12/28/12 11:51am

errant

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You do realize that entire horn ending was a Hornheads song called "New Dell Inn" right?

I think the unreleased extended portion incorporates a couple of their other songs as well.
"does my cock look fat in these jeans?"
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Reply #17 posted 12/28/12 3:06pm

Jerky

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errant said:

You do realize that entire horn ending was a Hornheads song called "New Dell Inn" right?

I think the unreleased extended portion incorporates a couple of their other songs as well.


I didn't know that! Maybe that's why that part didn't get released officially. Always assumed it was a Prince composition/arrangement... Gots to get me that hornheadz album then!
“Tuna, you better do something or else we gonna have to put you back in the can!”
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Reply #18 posted 12/28/12 4:17pm

Spinlight

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errant said:

You do realize that entire horn ending was a Hornheads song called "New Dell Inn" right? I think the unreleased extended portion incorporates a couple of their other songs as well.

That's because it was lifted from Billy Jack Bitch first.

When Michael Nelson started talking about how BJB incorporated a song of theirs in interviews, Prince was quick to issue a statement via L41A reminding Michael of the fact that he had a guide track. Michael then clarified that, yes, there was a guide track and that the end coda on BJB was not something he composed independent of Prince. The guide track, for BJB, was where New Dell Inn came from. Without BJB, New Dell Inn wouldn't exist. Think of it in the same terms as Eric Leeds' album, which had many songs that Eric took, refashioned, and/or wrote new solos on top of. It's still Prince's song.

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Reply #19 posted 12/29/12 12:32am

MrMoops

Spinlight said:

errant said:

You do realize that entire horn ending was a Hornheads song called "New Dell Inn" right? I think the unreleased extended portion incorporates a couple of their other songs as well.

That's because it was lifted from Billy Jack Bitch first.

When Michael Nelson started talking about how BJB incorporated a song of theirs in interviews, Prince was quick to issue a statement via L41A reminding Michael of the fact that he had a guide track. Michael then clarified that, yes, there was a guide track and that the end coda on BJB was not something he composed independent of Prince. The guide track, for BJB, was where New Dell Inn came from. Without BJB, New Dell Inn wouldn't exist. Think of it in the same terms as Eric Leeds' album, which had many songs that Eric took, refashioned, and/or wrote new solos on top of. It's still Prince's song.

Sorry, this is absolutely not correct in regards to BJB. That exchange was refering to some comments about horn arranging in general that P took exception to. The horns that ended up on the end of BJB were originally written by me specifically for the Hornheads and played for Prince at an earlier session while they were changing tapes. He liked them so much he later had us record them on BJB. New Dell Inn (the horns at the end of the released version of BJB) is my original composition (which is why I have a co-writing credit on that song, not just an arranging credit) and the arrangement of T. Monk's "Well You Needn't" on the extended version is also solely my horn arrangement. (although Prince did have us tweak a few little things to fit that into the BJB form) Both were laid over the top of the BJB outvamp groove, which prince of course composed.

-MBN

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Reply #20 posted 12/29/12 2:33am

funkomatic

I don't like the song. The horns are the best part of it.

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Reply #21 posted 12/29/12 4:04am

Jerky

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Thanks for clearing that up Michael. I only wish the extended version with your arrangement had been commercially released so everybody could hear how good it is.

Any plans for you to record with Prince in the future?
“Tuna, you better do something or else we gonna have to put you back in the can!”
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Reply #22 posted 12/29/12 10:08am

MrMoops

Jerky said:

Thanks for clearing that up Michael. I only wish the extended version with your arrangement had been commercially released so everybody could hear how good it is. Any plans for you to record with Prince in the future?

Thanks, yeah that extended version is pretty crazy. I don't know how it got out at all, but I'm glad it did, otherwise I wouldn't have ever heard it either. I think it was just drums and bass when we laid down our parts. After we recorded "New Dell Inn" I recall this exchange,

P - "What key is that Monk tune in?"

Me - "F"

P - "This is in D, that'll work, right?"

Me - "....um, sure"

since F is the relative major to D minor, it makes some sense, I just wouldn't have ever thought to even try it, especially given all the chromatic changes that are in "Well You Needn't". That session is a special memory.

re; recording, we did Andy's stuff and tho I'm always a little hesitant about breaking a confidence, I think I'm safe in saying the Hornheads have been recording with P throughout the year. I wouldn't presume to know what his plans are for the music, but we've had an absolute blast recording it. I don't know if he's going to release the version of Extraloveable that we recorded, but the live version he's been playing with the horn section is from my arrangement.

-MBN

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Reply #23 posted 12/29/12 10:47am

fuzion

Both horn sections on the extended are from The Hornheadz first album.

The first section is "New Dell Inn" by Michael B. Nelson (of The Hornheads, which is why he got writing credit) and the other (which was edited out for the album) is a cover of Thelonious Monk's "Well You Needn't".

I remember getting the album straight from Paisley while I was waiting for my "Exodus" album and "Goldnigga" was out of stock.

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Reply #24 posted 12/29/12 10:50am

fuzion

MrMoops said:

Sorry, this is absolutely not correct in regards to BJB. That exchange was refering to some comments about horn arranging in general that P took exception to. The horns that ended up on the end of BJB were originally written by me specifically for the Hornheads and played for Prince at an earlier session while they were changing tapes. He liked them so much he later had us record them on BJB. New Dell Inn (the horns at the end of the released version of BJB) is my original composition (which is why I have a co-writing credit on that song, not just an arranging credit) and the arrangement of T. Monk's "Well You Needn't" on the extended version is also solely my horn arrangement. (although Prince did have us tweak a few little things to fit that into the BJB form) Both were laid over the top of the BJB outvamp groove, which prince of course composed.

-MBN

I completely repeated what you said without reading what you wrote. Sorry, Mike. LOL!

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Reply #25 posted 12/29/12 10:57am

Spinlight

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MrMoops said:

Spinlight said:

That's because it was lifted from Billy Jack Bitch first.

When Michael Nelson started talking about how BJB incorporated a song of theirs in interviews, Prince was quick to issue a statement via L41A reminding Michael of the fact that he had a guide track. Michael then clarified that, yes, there was a guide track and that the end coda on BJB was not something he composed independent of Prince. The guide track, for BJB, was where New Dell Inn came from. Without BJB, New Dell Inn wouldn't exist. Think of it in the same terms as Eric Leeds' album, which had many songs that Eric took, refashioned, and/or wrote new solos on top of. It's still Prince's song.

Sorry, this is absolutely not correct in regards to BJB. That exchange was refering to some comments about horn arranging in general that P took exception to. The horns that ended up on the end of BJB were originally written by me specifically for the Hornheads and played for Prince at an earlier session while they were changing tapes. He liked them so much he later had us record them on BJB. New Dell Inn (the horns at the end of the released version of BJB) is my original composition (which is why I have a co-writing credit on that song, not just an arranging credit) and the arrangement of T. Monk's "Well You Needn't" on the extended version is also solely my horn arrangement. (although Prince did have us tweak a few little things to fit that into the BJB form) Both were laid over the top of the BJB outvamp groove, which prince of course composed.

-MBN

Thanks for the correction, Mr. Nelson. cool

What took the Hornheadz album so long to release? BJB was completed in 1993, a full 2 years before the HH album came out - no?

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Reply #26 posted 12/29/12 11:56am

MrMoops

Spinlight said:

MrMoops said:

Sorry, this is absolutely not correct in regards to BJB. That exchange was refering to some comments about horn arranging in general that P took exception to. The horns that ended up on the end of BJB were originally written by me specifically for the Hornheads and played for Prince at an earlier session while they were changing tapes. He liked them so much he later had us record them on BJB. New Dell Inn (the horns at the end of the released version of BJB) is my original composition (which is why I have a co-writing credit on that song, not just an arranging credit) and the arrangement of T. Monk's "Well You Needn't" on the extended version is also solely my horn arrangement. (although Prince did have us tweak a few little things to fit that into the BJB form) Both were laid over the top of the BJB outvamp groove, which prince of course composed.

-MBN

Thanks for the correction, Mr. Nelson. cool

What took the Hornheadz album so long to release? BJB was completed in 1993, a full 2 years before the HH album came out - no?

yes, the BJB session was in nov. '93 (according to the session contract I have, although that seems early, oh well, it's hard to keep timelines straight in my head) and the Hornheads first CD was in '94. The first 3 things I wrote specifically for the Hornheads were "Intermission", "New Dell Inn", and the arrangement of "Well You Needn't." That was probably in the fall of '93. We weren't planning on a CD at that time, it was just a writing experiment by me and a practise tool for the section that came about when we had some downtime while P was out of town. I think the idea of developing the concept further and actually recording a CD came about in '94 after we were taken off salary at PP. Even then, it was just intended as a demo, which is why it's so short.

-MBN

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Reply #27 posted 12/29/12 12:00pm

mplsmike

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cool Cool info Mike thumbs up!

Love Life,
Love God,
And Only Do Drugs You Need
smoker

... wave
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Reply #28 posted 12/30/12 2:34am

kenkamken

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mplsmike said:

cool Cool info Mike thumbs up!




Yes, excellent to hear reports from the studio. The info about recording in the last year is enticing as well

cool
"So fierce U look 2night, the brightest star pales 2 Ur sex..."
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Reply #29 posted 12/30/12 2:17pm

SchlomoThaHomo

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MrMoops said:

I don't know if he's going to release the version of Extraloveable that we recorded, but the live version he's been playing with the horn section is from my arrangement.

-MBN

God, I hope so. The version with the horns is SICK.

"That's when stars collide. When there's space for what u want, and ur heart is open wide."
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