Just listened (again) to the 2009 Montreux concerts. "All the critic Love U" is vintage/nasty/funky/ in it to win it Prince. I don't understand how some can bemoan the loss of something that never went away. "Let's take a bath 2gether." KnowhatImean?

You've answered your own question right there. You just enjoyed a bit of P at Montreux from not so long ago. What bit was it that you liked? ATCLUI(Insert City). When was that written? The 'old Prince' wrote it.

Go and compare that song to most of the crap he's chucked up in a studio in the past 10-20 years and ask yourself WTF are you talking about.

[Edited 12/1/12 17:04pm]

Love that show

I think when folks say that they're not talking about how well he can play his old material, but how poorly he treats the creation, release, and promotion of the new material.

The vast majority of SOTT and other old shows used to be the "new material" in those shows in support of the most current album he was promoting. Whereas now, you're really getting greatest hits shows. Obviously, that's what many casual fans want from Prince.

But, the fans on the org are bemoaning a spirit of Prince as an innovator I think.

Personally, I don't care if he wants to play the old stuff in his concerts---I just think he should do it in buttless pants a few times. Just for old time's sake.

The Prince that wasn't afraid of going against his religion, the Prince that looked forward to the future, the Prince that wasn't afriad to experiment even if he knew it wouldn't do well critically or commercially, the Prince who lyrics and music were a rollercoaster of sex, love, evil and everything in between

Fonkyman said:

You've answered your own question right there. You just enjoyed a bit of P at Montreux from not so long ago. What bit was it that you liked? ATCLUI(Insert City). When was that written? The 'old Prince' wrote it.

Go and compare that song to most of the crap he's chucked up in a studio in the past 10-20 years and ask yourself WTF are you talking about.

[Edited 12/1/12 17:04pm]

right on i iagree Fonkyman

Fonkyman said:

You've answered your own question right there. You just enjoyed a bit of P at Montreux from not so long ago. What bit was it that you liked? ATCLUI(Insert City). When was that written? The 'old Prince' wrote it.

Go and compare that song to most of the crap he's chucked up in a studio in the past 10-20 years and ask yourself WTF are you talking about.

[Edited 12/1/12 17:04pm]

right on i iagree Fonkyman

"2009 Montreux concerts",

>>> Not available in any form (DVD/ CD), officially...

ps, I have stopped following the boot recordings, even these are boring to me..

I'm just telling how I feel about the studio music, and even most of the live recordings..:

the OLD Prince on WB. was cool,

"most of" the new Prince is not that great.

Fonkyman said:

You've answered your own question right there. You just enjoyed a bit of P at Montreux from not so long ago. What bit was it that you liked? ATCLUI(Insert City). When was that written? The 'old Prince' wrote it.

Go and compare that song to most of the crap he's chucked up in a studio in the past 10-20 years and ask yourself WTF are you talking about.

[Edited 12/1/12 17:04pm]

Missing the point?

The "old" Prince surely did write that, and here is 2009 evidence of the "old Prince" being alive and performing it the hell out of it.

I am NOT talking about how he manages to not promote his work effectively, the quality of his releases, etc.

I am talking about his nastiness. There is this fallacy out amongst fans that his religion has taken away some kind of core "fuck I" attitude. You can say what you want about his output on record (Prince fans have long been divided about this), how he has no business acumen.

My point is that the "rude boy" spirit is clearly still present in this man.

[Edited 12/2/12 11:50am]

thedance said:

"2009 Montreux concerts",

>>> Not available in any form (DVD/ CD), officially...

ps, I have stopped following the boot recordings, even these are boring to me..

I'm just telling how I feel about the studio music, and even most of the live recordings..:

the OLD Prince on WB. was cool,

"most of" the new Prince is not that great.

You've been saying stuff like this for years and posted several times about how you need to take a break. Why keep logging on here when it seems to only foster negative emotions and thoughts?

skywalker said:

Fonkyman said:

You've answered your own question right there. You just enjoyed a bit of P at Montreux from not so long ago. What bit was it that you liked? ATCLUI(Insert City). When was that written? The 'old Prince' wrote it.

Go and compare that song to most of the crap he's chucked up in a studio in the past 10-20 years and ask yourself WTF are you talking about.

[Edited 12/1/12 17:04pm]

Missing the point?

The "old" Prince surely did write that, and here is 2009 evidence of the "old Prince" being alive and performing it the hell out of it.

I am talking about how he manages to not promote his work effectively, the quality of his releases, etc.

There is this fallacy out amongst fans that his religion has taken away some kind of core nastiness. You can say what you want about his output on record (Prince fans have long been divided about this), how he has no business acumen.

My point is that the "rude boy" spirit is clearly still present in this man.

[Edited 12/2/12 8:17am]

Maybe I am missing the point?

Your point seems to be changing though from 'missing the old Prince' to 'managing to not promote effectively' to 'Prince is still a rudeboy'.

Prince, old or new, could always perform. Better than most. I'm not saying he couldn't. I know he can still knock the shit out of a tune. I heard him rocking the place with Party Up a few years back, he was blinding. Trouble is, he aint been knocking the shit out of anything new. Now he's just knocking shit out which is a different kettle of fish altogether.

You're talking about how he manages to not promote his work effectively? What does that mean? Do you mean he's managing ok without promoting in the traditional way, or that he's managing it all really badly? I'd say the latter. As for the quality of his releases, well, that's all been on the wane for years.

Religion has and always will play a part in what he gets up to. He's always gone on about it in one way or another. He might get bored of the JW stuff and get into something else, who knows. I know when he was full of "God is Alive" etc around Lovesexy he was shit hot. Nobody complained when he took a break to have a chat with his 'God' on the PRain tour cos he was shit hot. Since Larry took him knocking doors he's pissed on the proverbial bonfire.

How 'Rude Boy' is Sexuality/Spirituality or all the other lyric changes? It's ridiculous, he's anything but rude now. Apart from his trousers and his ironed eyes. Come to think of it, releasing that R&Rse thing in his name is pretty rude.

I'd prescribe him some Head with Darling Nikki-Temptation and set light to his library but that's me.

[Edited 12/2/12 23:08pm]

Gohi said:

thedance said:

"2009 Montreux concerts",

>>> Not available in any form (DVD/ CD), officially...

ps, I have stopped following the boot recordings, even these are boring to me..

I'm just telling how I feel about the studio music, and even most of the live recordings..:

the OLD Prince on WB. was cool,

"most of" the new Prince is not that great.

You've been saying stuff like this for years and posted several times about how you need to take a break. Why keep logging on here when it seems to only foster negative emotions and thoughts?

^

I was responding to the headline.

An opinion from me. Why can't you accept a critical response?

thedance said:

Gohi said:

You've been saying stuff like this for years and posted several times about how you need to take a break. Why keep logging on here when it seems to only foster negative emotions and thoughts?

^

I was responding to the headline.

An opinion from me. Why can't you accept a critical response?

Naw. There's a difference between being critical of Prince and the abject misery you seem to put yourself in by following the man's career.

^ Hey Gohi, I'm sure you are a really cool guy.. but are you really that excited with the latest music from Prince..?

Okay we just disagree then.

No big deal, but you are right I'm having a hard time being a fan.

But, I just can't "let it go" - cuz he used to be that great, ahead of everyone else.

Prince used to be the best, second to none on the planet.

Prince used to be better more prolific more of a genius than even Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, James Brown etc. those kind of names.

Prince used to be "it", better than everyone else.

I used to love Prince's studio music.

But to be honest that is a very very long time ago, Prince is now a shadow of what he used to be.

he hasn't released an important "killer" album.. since he left Warner.

to most people in general Prince is under the rader when it comes to the studio music, they don't even know he is still making albums.

My guess is that we are about 200,000 Prince fans left, buying the latest Prince album. The rest of these fans are gone, gone a long time ago.

The truth about Prince's career hurts, sorry about that -- But: we still have the memories.

thedance said:

^ Hey Gohi, I'm sure you are a really cool guy.. but are you really that excited with the latest music from Prince..?

Okay we just disagree then.

No big deal, but you are right I'm having a hard time being a fan.

But, I just can't "let it go" - cuz he used to be that great, ahead of everyone else.

Prince used to be the best, second to none on the planet.

Prince used to be better more prolific more of a genius than even Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, James Brown etc. those kind of names.

Prince used to be "it", better than everyone else.

I used to love Prince's studio music.

But to be honest that is a very very long time ago, Prince is now a shadow of what he used to be.

he hasn't released an important "killer" album.. since he left Warner.

to most people in general Prince is under the rader when it comes to the studio music, they don't even know he is still making albums.

My guess is that we are about 200,000 Prince fans left, buying the latest Prince album. The rest of these fans are gone, gone a long time ago.

The truth about Prince's career hurts, sorry about that -- But: we still have the memories.

I never said I thought the latest music was good. R&R Affair is dreadful and I haven't bothered with Andy Allo's latest mess. I guess it just seems like you get pretty depressed about Prince's current state of affairs. Let me know if I'm misreading things.

I feel more or less the same Dancer.

He was that fucking good. The hook went deep and it aint easy to choke it out. Especially when you hear the stuff you really get into. Just drops the hook again.

I'm one of those 'sort of left' and I prolly wouldn't buy a new album if he dropped one. I'd have a listen and buy it if it was any good but I doubt it would be. Like most of the crap since I can't remember when there might be one or two alright tracks but I wouldn't hold my breath hoping.

I don't expect him to go nuts like he did way back when but I sure as shit didn't expect this out of him. Miles took a massive break, he wasn't always groundbreaking, he went to complete shit for a good few years. Like someone else we all know, just in very different ways.

Now if there were afterparty tickets going nearby I'd be there like a shot. I aint got a clue what he's been up to in the studio but it aint good.

In my opinion people are talking about his output of new material - not his live performance.

it's a funky rendition right enough, it has a flavour of "beautiful night" to it.

but listen to the 82 live version, that is the definition of nasty! it sincerely fucks the taste out of my mouth!

the montreux version is cool though and i do like it alot.

Well it's clear Prince still got a Rude Boy spirit about him. I don't think much has changed. Prince is Prince.

Timmy84 said:

Well it's clear Prince still got a Rude Boy spirit about him. I don't think much has changed. Prince is Prince.

Since when, last week?

Pick anything you like (Studio) from '78-'88. Compare it to anything you like from '02-'12. Where's the Rude Boy? Plenty's changed.

Fonkyman said:

Timmy84 said:

Well it's clear Prince still got a Rude Boy spirit about him. I don't think much has changed. Prince is Prince.

Since when, last week?

Pick anything you like (Studio) from '78-'88. Compare it to anything you like from '02-'12. Where's the Rude Boy? Plenty's changed.

I didn't say as a studio performer.

I've got news for y'all - a 50-year-old rocker/funker cannot write the same kind of music they did when they were 20.

It just doesn't happen. Can anyone name one rocker/funker over the age of 50 that is writing stuff that's as good as what they wrote when they were 25? If you can, you'll surprise me.

On the other hand, age means nothing in country music. George Strait still sings the exact same type of songs he did in the 80's.

RodeoSchro said:

I've got news for y'all - a 50-year-old rocker/funker cannot write the same kind of music they did when they were 20.

It just doesn't happen. Can anyone name one rocker/funker over the age of 50 that is writing stuff that's as good as what they wrote when they were 25? If you can, you'll surprise me.

On the other hand, age means nothing in country music. George Strait still sings the exact same type of songs he did in the 80's.

Yeah obviously he ain't gonna be the same. Why would anyone? Besides, if Prince was actually the person he was in 1981, the same folks complaining about him losing "who he really was" would think the old man was out of touch...

Fonkyman said:

Timmy84 said:

Well it's clear Prince still got a Rude Boy spirit about him. I don't think much has changed. Prince is Prince.

Since when, last week?

Pick anything you like (Studio) from '78-'88. Compare it to anything you like from '02-'12. Where's the Rude Boy? Plenty's changed.

If you are going to steer things towards studio output, what about 1989 to 2001?

Why leave out a significant portion of his career for compare/contrast?

[Edited 12/4/12 7:47am]

skywalker said:

Fonkyman said:

Since when, last week?

Pick anything you like (Studio) from '78-'88. Compare it to anything you like from '02-'12. Where's the Rude Boy? Plenty's changed.

If you are going to steer things towards studio output, what about 1989 to 2001?

Why leave out a significant portion of his career for compare/contrast?

[Edited 12/4/12 7:47am]

I find that interesting too because he was really going through changes between 1988 and 2001 that led him to be the person he is now.

Fuck sake. What are we on about? Are we talking Live or Studio? One of ya's talking about Live, another says we're talking Studio...

What about '89-01? ... Yeah, what about it?

It doesn't really matter. I've already said, he's always been a red hot performer. He can still do it live when he can be arsed and I'm sure he could and probably has written and recorded some blinders in the studio. I haven't heard anything decent for a while though and he certainly aint even been close to 'rude' for years.

With the comparisons I was being conservative. I coulda said to compare all the post '88 stuff to the pre. The pre '88 stuff still pisses on the post and with it on the postman. Even though it's heavily outnumbered. Just in my opinion o course.

I took the past 10 years compared to the first. Personally, though I didn't mind the Batman album it was the first sign to me that things were going dodgy. Every album after that carried on the trend. I stopped trading boots around '90 too. I just sorta lost interest in it all and fucked off clubbing. For more than a decade.

The amount of tracks on his albums I liked got fewer and fewer and I stopped buying them after Come. I still got them given as gifts but I almost chucked those out. Gold, Chaos and Drivel, Symbol, Rave, etc. It's mainly old tat. It's got to the point that I couldn't name a song on LF and Mpls sound without looking them up. I'm amazed to think that would ever happen.

I don't expect P to be writing the same sort of thing as he was in his 20s or 30s any more than I expect him to still be in his 20s or 30s. He doesn't need to be parping out the crap he has been though. He set the bar now it's like a cross on his back. Or is it a christ on his back or a holy angel?

Having that break stood me in good stead though. I've still got loads to catch up on. Here and there I've found a few blinders that I was oblivious to for years and I'm hypothetically catching up on some of the hypothetical boots too.

My point was that we haven't seen a Rude boy for a while as he hasn't been one for a while. Simple as that. Plenty's changed too. It'd be unnatural if it hadn't. Yeah he's still the same fella, just grown older like the rest of us. I wasn't the one calling him a rudeboy though was I.

Fonkyman said:

Fuck sake. What are we on about? Are we talking Live or Studio? One of ya's talking about Live, another says we're talking Studio...

What about '89-01? ... Yeah, what about it?

It doesn't really matter. I've already said, he's always been a red hot performer. He can still do it live when he can be arsed and I'm sure he could and probably has written and recorded some blinders in the studio. I haven't heard anything decent for a while though and he certainly aint even been close to 'rude' for years.

With the comparisons I was being conservative. I coulda said to compare all the post '88 stuff to the pre. The pre '88 stuff still pisses on the post and with it on the postman. Even though it's heavily outnumbered. Just in my opinion o course.

I took the past 10 years compared to the first. Personally, though I didn't mind the Batman album it was the first sign to me that things were going dodgy. Every album after that carried on the trend. I stopped trading boots around '90 too. I just sorta lost interest in it all and fucked off clubbing. For more than a decade.

The amount of tracks on his albums I liked got fewer and fewer and I stopped buying them after Come. I still got them given as gifts but I almost chucked those out. Gold, Chaos and Drivel, Symbol, Rave, etc. It's mainly old tat. It's got to the point that I couldn't name a song on LF and Mpls sound without looking them up. I'm amazed to think that would ever happen.

I don't expect P to be writing the same sort of thing as he was in his 20s or 30s any more than I expect him to still be in his 20s or 30s. He doesn't need to be parping out the crap he has been though. He set the bar now it's like a cross on his back. Or is it a christ on his back or a holy angel?

Having that break stood me in good stead though. I've still got loads to catch up on. Here and there I've found a few blinders that I was oblivious to for years and I'm hypothetically catching up on some of the hypothetical boots too.

My point was that we haven't seen a Rude boy for a while as he hasn't been one for a while. Simple as that. Plenty's changed too. It'd be unnatural if it hadn't. Yeah he's still the same fella, just grown older like the rest of us. I wasn't the one calling him a rudeboy though was I.

was your first listening of batman like mine? the future....fine, all is as it should be

electric chair....interesting piece of glam electro funk rock

arms of orion........noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

what the fuck!!!!

that was the moment his killer run ended for me.

there's some good moments on batman but it was when prince lost alot of his mystique with me. graffiti wank is drivel, diamonds n pearls i hate, for some reason i got a soft spot for symbol, i like car crash albums.

chaos n dyssentry is an afront to the talent that man has. plastic soulless shit from start to finish. i gave my copy away. live i stayed with it up to 98 then that was me finished. it had some great moments, nude tour opening at rotterdam then 2 week later me n a mate thumbed it to paris, slept rough for a couple of nights then at wembley 2 days later and so on...how the fuck did i afford it????

nowt like lovesexy but the opening few numbers of nude where the drum track from the future carries the opening 20 mins was a blast to dance to. i remember some good boogies to days o wild during gold but i'd swap them all to have seen just one show pre 88.

like u said there comes a time when it all ends and it's usually sudden. music's like that. when i heard that robert miles "children" abomination that was my arms of orion moment with dance culture. but i had a blast too for a good few years.

as for prince being a rudeboy....piss off he was on the muppets. if he was a proper rudeboy he'd have been in rainbow jammin with rod, jane n freddy.

Fonkyman said:

Fuck sake. What are we on about? Are we talking Live or Studio? One of ya's talking about Live, another says we're talking Studio...

1. My initial post was about that, in terms of royal badness attitude, Prince still has it. I pointed to Montreux 2009 "All the critics love U..." as a PRIME example. So...live.

2. Others have talked about how he's "lost that attitude" in studio, yet cite no specific examples other than the usual post 1988 line of thinking.

3. My main point is that people often bemoan Prince for not being naughty/rude or having a fuck you attitude, but he is very much the same guy that he's always been. Whether you like the new stuff or not, that swagger and nastiness still presents itself all of the time.

[Edited 12/4/12 18:59pm]