Here are the most consistently funny excuses I hear when fans are disenchanted with Prince's later work:

It's Larry Graham's fault. The JW religion is suppressing his creativity.

This doesn't work to explain what went wrong with his albums before the conversion, and it also overlooks the extent to which Prince contravenes the JW religion in many important ways, but let's ignore all of that.

[insert bad new song here] sucks, but it's still better than popular acts like Justin Bieber.

Yes, the once great Prince is reduced to "compliments" like this.

Prince needs a new producer.

A new producer probably would help, but the primary problem is the weak song-writing itself.

No artist can create albums the caliber of Sign 'O' the Times forever.

This is entirely true of course, but it doesn't excuse just how bad many of his new songs are.

He needs to be motivated. He still has it in him. Just look at The Rainbow Children.

Yes, just look at The Rainbow Children. When was it made again? Oh, over ten years ago. I suppose then in 1994, the same logic would mean Prince has it in him to create a huge blockbluster album since, "Just look at Purple Rain." The same logic would mean that in 1998 Prince still has it in him to create a critical masterpiece since, "Just look at Sign 'O' the Times."

Prince fans just expect too much from the man.

In the 80's, yes. In the 90's even, perhaps. Now? Not really. In fact, I would say it's almost the opposite. After all the bombs, disappointments, and bad music of much of the 90's-today, many are just relieved when a new work of his is listenable and not embarrassing.

[Edited 12/11/12 12:44pm]

[Edited 12/11/12 12:49pm]

It is a fact, and not my opinion, that your pantyhose is showing, PurpleKnight.

The Rainbow Children contains some of Prince's most intense socio-cultural ideas, within a beautifully complex and masterful album of serious musical highlights; it is unparalleled even within Prince's own discography. Similarly, NEWS and Xpectation are wonderfully vibrant examples of the type of funk-soul-jazz workouts Prince has always enjoyed committing to tape, but not necessarily releasing. You may want to cast your mind back to the genius of Once Upon A Time, eventually released on Eric Leed's Times Squared album, for the type of masterpiece that Prince creates and produces, which often remain unreleased. Luckily for us, he released these two efforts completely, unlike The Flesh sessions which it would be fair to say many afficionados are salivating at the likely prospect of an unofficial release. Questlove?

As an independent musician, it is quite a complex, confounding and infuriating industry to be in, even for the brightest of business minds or performing talents. It is clear that Prince has grown since his emancipation in not only his attempts to produce albums of a different nature to the aforementioned (i.e. less experimental and more mainstream), it is also clear he has become more disenfranchised with the gatekeepers of the industry, as well as his difficulties gaining success/acclaim. That said, I still find plenty of musical flashes of brilliance within his last few albums to keep me satisfied (Somewhere Here On Earth, The Word, Boom, Lion of Judah, Dreamer, No More Candy For You, Beginning Endlessly, Old School Company, Future Soul Song, Reflection). Nonetheless, for the few of us remaining with the patience and tenacity to still find his obscure musical offerings, I would conclude that we are still rather fortunate enough that he hasn't retired yet, for he has already more than catered for a lifetime's worth of pleasurable listening experiences.

Even within the past two years, where he has all but retired from publicly releasing his studio work, we are still fortunate enough to be gifted the beyond exemplorary Prince production on Superconductor, which comfortably rivals all past protege albums and, dare I say it, many of his own. And for the die hards amongst us, we have even given snippets of his unknown work from behind the scenes, too, with quite phenomenal old school funk and jazz reworkings (Old Friends For Sale, Mutiny, The Dance Electric, Days of Wild and Dark, to name but a few). And I won't even begin to tell you how good the new Prince album is sounding to my ears, especially with its depth of lyrical storytelling, fluidity in musical experimentation and maturity in production, because you would more than likely disregard that piece of information. Anyway, I would describe it as a mix between Sign O The Times (as a serious artistic statement), Camille or The Gold Experience (in terms of the burning attitude/'fire in his belly'/rebellion), Madhouse/N.E.W.S. (as a quite beautiful experiment) and Once Upon A Time/8 (in terms of production values and aesthetics). It's brilliant and nothing like Rock and Roll Love Affair, which is more like Superconductor in terms of its simplicity.

Perhaps, we should all be as successful navigating the artistic, musical and business divide.

love,

Spirit

.

[Edited 12/11/12 13:51pm]

And I won't even begin to tell you how good the new Prince album is sounding to my ears, especially with its depth of lyrical storytelling, fluidity in musical experimentation and maturity in production, because you would more than likely disregard that piece of information. Anyway, I would describe it as a mix between Sign O The Times (as a serious artistic statement), Camille or The Gold Experience (in terms of the burning attitude/'fire in his belly'/rebellion), Madhouse/N.E.W.S. (as a quite beautiful experiment) and Once Upon A Time/8 (in terms of production values and aesthetics). It's brilliant and nothing like Rock and Roll Love Affair, which is more like Superconductor in terms of its simplicity.

Good lawd....

Well Musicology was a good album. 3121 was great. Planet Earth is modestly good. But after that he loses me and kinda started with planet earth. lotus/mpls/2012. Between them have about 4-6 songs i can bare to listen to and enjoy. Compared to the 23-26 songs i can listen to on musicology 3121 planet earth. I'd just have to say that Prince has hit an awkward state in his career. He still is famous and sells out no matter what and he really has nothing left to prove. He already proved he can be a hit in 2000's and he already proved he could make a major comeback. He also proved he could sustain that sucess. btw News blows Rainbow Children is good, but both albums keep me curious.

kangafunk said:

I don't understand who we're supposed to be making excuses to. His latest output, particularly r n r love affair is aimed at and pretty well received by non prince fans.

excuses amongst us obviously.

[Edited 12/11/12 16:54pm]

i never fail to be tickled when people say things such as "lets hear your funk opus" or "have you made a hit record?".

simpletons!

robertgeorgeakabob said:

PurpleKnight said:

Here are the most consistently funny excuses I hear when fans are disenchanted with Prince's later work:

It's Larry Graham's fault. The JW religion is suppressing his creativity.

This doesn't work to explain what went wrong with his albums before the conversion, and it also overlooks the extent to which Prince contravenes the JW religion in many important ways, but let's ignore all of that.

[insert bad new song here] sucks, but it's still better than popular acts like Justin Bieber.

Yes, the once great Prince is reduced to "compliments" like this.

Prince needs a new producer.

A new producer probably would help, but the primary problem is the weak song-writing itself.

No artist can create albums the caliber of Sign 'O' the Times forever.

This is entirely true of course, but it doesn't excuse just how bad many of his new songs are.

He needs to be motivated. He still has it in him. Just look at The Rainbow Children.

Yes, just look at The Rainbow Children. When was it made again? Oh, over ten years ago. I suppose then in 1994, the same logic would mean Prince has it in him to create a huge blockbluster album since, "Just look at Purple Rain." The same logic would mean that in 1998 Prince still has it in him to create a critical masterpiece since, "Just look at Sign 'O' the Times."

Prince fans just expect too much from the man.

In the 80's, yes. In the 90's even, perhaps. Now? Not really. In fact, I would say it's almost the opposite. After all the bombs, disappointments, and bad music of much of the 90's-today, many are just relieved when a new work of his is listenable and not embarrassing.

[Edited 12/11/12 12:44pm]

[Edited 12/11/12 12:49pm]

I've said it a billion times, and will say it a billion more times until the mods kick me off the site: The same idiots who say every Prince album after 1990 is horrible, are the same idiots who say Prince is absolutely perfect live.

These morons could sit through Shelby singing cover song after cover song, or hear her useless shouting of "Put Your Hands Up," all night.

Of course, my opinion is that Prince can be the best there is live in spots, but usually gets in diva mode where he cares more about his hair than the quality of the musicians in his band, or watered down arrangements.

I personally think every single album is full of great tracks with a minor frown given to New Power Soul and MPLSound.

stillwaiting said:

I've said it a billion times, and will say it a billion more times until the mods kick me off the site: The same idiots who say every Prince album after 1990 is horrible, are the same idiots who say Prince is absolutely perfect live.

I've said it a billion times, and will say it a billion more times until the mods kick me off the site: The same idiots who say every Prince album after 1990 is horrible, are the same idiots that listen to NIN.

I don't really believe in that, but it's funny how most of the people that act aggressively on this forum do. There must be a psychological pattern for this thing.

Farfunknugin said:

And I won't even begin to tell you how good the new Prince album is sounding to my ears, especially with its depth of lyrical storytelling, fluidity in musical experimentation and maturity in production, because you would more than likely disregard that piece of information. Anyway, I would describe it as a mix between Sign O The Times (as a serious artistic statement), Camille or The Gold Experience (in terms of the burning attitude/'fire in his belly'/rebellion), Madhouse/N.E.W.S. (as a quite beautiful experiment) and Once Upon A Time/8 (in terms of production values and aesthetics). It's brilliant and nothing like Rock and Roll Love Affair, which is more like Superconductor in terms of its simplicity.

Good lawd....

"What u talking about Willis"! :lol:

What new album?

stillwaiting said:

PurpleKnight said:

Here are the most consistently funny excuses I hear when fans are disenchanted with Prince's later work:

It's Larry Graham's fault. The JW religion is suppressing his creativity.

This doesn't work to explain what went wrong with his albums before the conversion, and it also overlooks the extent to which Prince contravenes the JW religion in many important ways, but let's ignore all of that.

[insert bad new song here] sucks, but it's still better than popular acts like Justin Bieber.

Yes, the once great Prince is reduced to "compliments" like this.

Prince needs a new producer.

A new producer probably would help, but the primary problem is the weak song-writing itself.

No artist can create albums the caliber of Sign 'O' the Times forever.

This is entirely true of course, but it doesn't excuse just how bad many of his new songs are.

He needs to be motivated. He still has it in him. Just look at The Rainbow Children.

Yes, just look at The Rainbow Children. When was it made again? Oh, over ten years ago. I suppose then in 1994, the same logic would mean Prince has it in him to create a huge blockbluster album since, "Just look at Purple Rain." The same logic would mean that in 1998 Prince still has it in him to create a critical masterpiece since, "Just look at Sign 'O' the Times."

Prince fans just expect too much from the man.

In the 80's, yes. In the 90's even, perhaps. Now? Not really. In fact, I would say it's almost the opposite. After all the bombs, disappointments, and bad music of much of the 90's-today, many are just relieved when a new work of his is listenable and not embarrassing.

[Edited 12/11/12 12:44pm]

[Edited 12/11/12 12:49pm]

I've said it a billion times, and will say it a billion more times until the mods kick me off the site: The same idiots who say every Prince album after 1990 is horrible, are the same idiots who say Prince is absolutely perfect live.

These morons could sit through Shelby singing cover song after cover song, or hear her useless shouting of "Put Your Hands Up," all night.

Of course, my opinion is that Prince can be the best there is live in spots, but usually gets in diva mode where he cares more about his hair than the quality of the musicians in his band, or watered down arrangements.

I personally think every single album is full of great tracks with a minor frown given to New Power Soul and MPLSound.

Thank you for realizing I'm an idiot. Perhaps you'll be so kind as to go easy on my poor intellect from here on out.

Where is the contradiction in saying that Prince's recorded albums have been really bad and maintaining that he's been phenomenal in his live performances? I don't see one here at all. It's not as if critiques of him have claimed that his playing skills have deteriorated; not at all. His technical skills, if anything, may have gotten better, and his voice still sounds great. It's the songwriting that's pointed at in critiques.

He mostly plays his hits live anyway. Maybe people would complain if he performed a live set of nothing but 20Ten songs, but that isn't going to happen.

LOTUS fucking FLOWER! Now lock this nonsensical thread!

..."but he's still great live"

and this is enough.

Every pre-JW album was awesome.

Not every post-JW album was awesome.

That's just the truth.

mynameisnotsusan said:

..."but he's still great live"

and this is enough.

not for me,

that can be said about almost any veteran performer/entertainer, doing music festivals

Spinlight said:

Every pre-JW album was awesome.

Not every post-JW album was awesome.

That's just the truth.

Newpower Soul - awesome?

love,

Spirit

SpiritOtter said:

Spinlight said:

Every pre-JW album was awesome.

Not every post-JW album was awesome.

That's just the truth.

Newpower Soul - awesome?

love,

Spirit

The JWs were already playing an important role in his life when that album came out. Check out the video for "Come On".

There are at least two, maybe even three awesome songs on New Power Soul.

Spinlight said:

Every pre-JW album was awesome.

Not every post-JW album was awesome.

That's just the truth.

I can't agree with you there. I "hated" Emancipation.

Actually, Prince's songwriting has been questionable all along. He's always come up with some great stuff, naturally, and continues to, but I don't see the Black Album as being chock full o' pop standards. When 2 R in Love is a well crafted song, but the rest is more interesting for its arrangements & creativity & daring.

I was listening to The Dream Factory, and Train and Last Heart are nothing to write home about, song-wise. And that was during his supposed creative peak. It's Prince that made them great. Can't really separate the songs from the man & musician, in many cases (exceptions apply!)

Stymie said:

Spinlight said:

Every pre-JW album was awesome.

Not every post-JW album was awesome.

That's just the truth.

I can't agree with you there. I "hated" Emancipation.

There were some good songs on it , and a lot of songs I disliked so strongly that I couldn´t even get through one time so I had to skip them (Courtin Time, We Gets Up, Damned If I Do.....WTF was he thinking?). But I really like Dreamin About U, Soul Sanctuary, Right Back Here In My Arms, Joint 2 Joint, The Love We Make, Somebody´s Somebody and a few more. It could have been a killer single album instead of a mediocre triple album.

stillwaiting said:

I've said it a billion times, and will say it a billion more times until the mods kick me off the site: The same idiots who say every Prince album after 1990 is horrible, are the same idiots who say Prince is absolutely perfect live.

I personally think every single album is full of great tracks with a minor frown given to New Power Soul and MPLSound.

you are wrong. make it "after 1995" instead of 1990.

(with a few exceptions those Prince albums since Gold Exp. are really weak).

I don't like that you are using words like "idiots", "morons", etc.

ah, if you really like:

3121,

Planet Earth,

20Ten etc.

then, we just don't share the same tastes..

it's a matter of opinions, cool?

ps to NDRU:

Imo "Last Heart" is fantastic and better than anything 1996-2012. I have loved it ever since the bootlegs in 1988/89, when the song was named, misspelled: "If U Break My Heart 1 More Time".. GREAT track,

I really "Last Heart".

thedance said:

stillwaiting said:

ps to NDRU:

I have loved it ever since the bootlegs in 1988/89, when the song was named, misspelled: "If U Break My Heart 1 More Time".. GREAT track,

I really "Last Heart".

[Edited 12/16/12 10:00am]

Spinlight said:

Every pre-JW album was awesome.

Not every post-JW album was awesome.

That's just the truth.

Diamonds and Pearls and are the personification of disingenuous corporatized products; desperate trend-following (Tony M sums up this era of Prince perfectly) for the sole sake of producing hits. These albums were clearly the result of the new contract he'd signed. There were a few good songs on each album, but they're buried beneath the sounds of generic, mass-produced type filler.

Come and C&D are "awesome?" Only on the Org will you hear this, but alright. I think Come is mostly repetitive to the point of tedium while C&D as an album is just, well, chaotic and disorderly. :p

Emancipation is a self-indulgent bloated mess with embarrassing covers, several dull and formulaic R&B and pop songs and merely a small smattering of interesting tracks on the second and third discs.

NPS is quite possibly the worst Prince album ever recorded. Superficial lyrics, canned beats, obnoxious sounds galore, miserably plastic production and generally devoid of heart or inspiration.

NDRU said:

Actually, Prince's songwriting has been questionable all along. He's always come up with some great stuff, naturally, and continues to, but I don't see the Black Album as being chock full o' pop standards. When 2 R in Love is a well crafted song, but the rest is more interesting for its arrangements & creativity & daring.

I think Cindy C is a fun awesome funk epic, one of his best funk songs imo. Great songwriting. I have a blast every time I listen to it.

I was listening to The Dream Factory, and Train and Last Heart are nothing to write home about, song-wise. And that was during his supposed creative peak. It's Prince that made them great. Can't really separate the songs from the man & musician, in many cases (exceptions apply!)

Yes, but in order to cite bad songwriting you had to reccur to two obscure unreleased songs. He was unstopable in good songwriting for most of the 80s, very hard to pick bad songwriting in that time.

[Edited 12/17/12 22:32pm]

PurpleKnight said:

[insert bad new song here] sucks, but it's still better than popular acts like Justin Bieber.

Yes, the once great Prince is reduced to "compliments" like this.

Very true.

PurpleKnight said:

Spinlight said:

Every pre-JW album was awesome.

Not every post-JW album was awesome.

That's just the truth.

Diamonds and Pearls and are the personification of disingenuous corporatized products; desperate trend-following (Tony M sums up this era of Prince perfectly) for the sole sake of producing hits. These albums were clearly the result of the new contract he'd signed. There were a few good songs on each album, but they're buried beneath the sounds of generic, mass-produced type filler.

Tony M was sheer bad taste, there's nothing good I can see in any of his contributions, I still dont get why Prince had him on these two albums. Meaning that Prince used always to surprise for good taste choices. As whole, these two albums may pass this embarrasing commercial pretension, Diamonds and Pearls a lot more to me than The Love Symbol. But I don't think these albums lack completely the Prince genuine touch. I think My Name Is Prince, Gett Off, Sexy MF and Cream are clearly Prince`s own, good songwriting, innovative, great arrangements, very creative, regardless of having been hits or not (a commercial success is not necessarily an artistic failure). And Money Don't Matter 2night, And God Created Woman stand the same Prince genius regarding ballads. None of these songs can be said, in my view, to be a desperate follow of any trend.

Emancipation is a self-indulgent bloated mess with embarrassing covers, several dull and formulaic R&B and pop songs and merely a small smattering of interesting tracks on the second and third discs.

Emancipation was self-indulgent as a whole, there was a lot to be cut off, analising it with good sense. But Slave, Let's Have a Baby, Human Body, New World, My Computer and The Love We Make all stand very strong for me, at any level.