PurpleKnight said:

Production made significant leaps forward in the 90's, and Prince couldn't keep up. He's been a mostly bad producer ever since except for his more organic sounding works like TRC and Lotus. He keeps returning to outdated 80's sounds much of the time, and the result sounds cheap and nostalgic.

... and thank God for that!

ohYeeeeeah said:

I cannot believe so many people think he cannot produce anything good anymore.

Andy Allo's latest CD is very well produced.

TRC (amazing), 3121 or LotusFlower are examples of great productions in the last 10 years.

His only real failures as a producer are his attempts to use the LinnDrum again. It does not sound right.

But I don't know many producers who can produce so many different genres of music.

ok,

but I looooove the Linn drums on Future Baby Mama,

imo the best, and the only real great ballad the past 10 years.

Did Prince get a Grammy for this song...? I can't really remember, I could be wrong.

it amazing how yall can get on here and say what prince cant do when over half of mainstream is begging prince 2 work with him fantasia,jennifer hudson, lil wayne, jay z, kanye west the list goes on strong of people saying prince is that one artist they wanna work with. half or producers out there now jocking prince sound so yes he could. if prince did a song with lil wayne every kid in the hood and white america would buy the shit cuz its lil wayne.if jay z did a song with prince every jay and beyonce fan with buy it cuz thats how stans do these days

thedance said:

ohYeeeeeah said:

I cannot believe so many people think he cannot produce anything good anymore.

Andy Allo's latest CD is very well produced.

TRC (amazing), 3121 or LotusFlower are examples of great productions in the last 10 years.

His only real failures as a producer are his attempts to use the LinnDrum again. It does not sound right.

But I don't know many producers who can produce so many different genres of music.

ok,

but I looooove the Linn drums on Future Baby Mama,

imo the best, and the only real great ballad the past 10 years.

Did Prince get a Grammy for this song...? I can't really remember, I could be wrong.

Yes! Prince won the 2008 Grammy Best RnB vocal per4mance for his classic RnB hit "Future Baby Mama" .He beat out Urshur,Ne-yo,Tank & Raheem DeVaughn.

By the way that category has been discontinued. It is now the newly formed Best RnB per4mance.All solo and duo/group vocal per4mances in the RnB category have been shifted to the new name.

Urshur was the last to win that category in 2011. Before it was changed for "There Goes My Baby"..

thedance said:

80spfantwp said:

IMO his production of AA's album holds your answer - excellent production.

ok,

do you really like that?

Boring music imo, judging on the lead single..

Whether people like the tracks or not is missing the point imo; purely subjective and down to personal taste. I don;t 'like' all the tracks - but I can certainly appreciate the fact that the album is well produced which is pertinent to the question posed within this thread.

whodknee said:

Tittypants said:

Prince can barely produce for himself anymore . If his songs are handed off to other producers who are more up to par today, maybe it could work. But Prince is such a asshole, I'm sure the music wouldn't ever come out.

Then he wouldn't be the producer. Many of you don't understand the creative process. No other type of artist is ridiculed for not collaborating or asked to forfeit the right to retain their own vision. Do we expect novelists, painters, or film directors for instance to stop creating on their own when they no longer live up to their own reputations? If you don't like the work you just don't buy it.

Actually, all these people you mentioned above with the exception of painters have editors, movie studios, financial backers and others to answer to. Published writers' works are almost always altered by an editor.

Prince needs a shit filter. Warners kept him from going off the rails in the old days.

novabrkr said:

PurpleKnight said:

Production made significant leaps forward in the 90's, and Prince couldn't keep up. He's been a mostly bad producer ever since except for his more organic sounding works like TRC and Lotus. He keeps returning to outdated 80's sounds much of the time, and the result sounds cheap and nostalgic.

... and thank God for that!

Uhhh, okay.

PurpleKnight said:

whodknee said:

Tittypants said:

Prince can barely produce for himself anymore . If his songs are handed off to other producers who are more up to par today, maybe it could work. But Prince is such a asshole, I'm sure the music wouldn't ever come out.

Then he wouldn't be the producer. Many of you don't understand the creative process. No other type of artist is ridiculed for not collaborating or asked to forfeit the right to retain their own vision. Do we expect novelists, painters, or film directors for instance to stop creating on their own when they no longer live up to their own reputations? If you don't like the work you just don't buy it.

Yes I do understand the creative process. If Prince wrote a song, made a demo of it, & let another producer update it. It could "maybe" work.

steakfinger said:

whodknee said:

Then he wouldn't be the producer. Many of you don't understand the creative process. No other type of artist is ridiculed for not collaborating or asked to forfeit the right to retain their own vision. Do we expect novelists, painters, or film directors for instance to stop creating on their own when they no longer live up to their own reputations? If you don't like the work you just don't buy it.

Actually, all these people you mentioned above with the exception of painters have editors, movie studios, financial backers and others to answer to. Published writers' works are almost always altered by an editor.

Prince needs a shit filter. Warners kept him from going off the rails in the old days.

Exactly! & this guys has the nerve to say "Many of you don't understand the creative process".

I'm not sure exactly what we know of Prince as a producer, and I guess much of the question depends on exactly what you expect the producer to do. In my opinion the producer's role is to find the best means to showcase the artist's sometimes talent, or to take their vision or concept and bring it to life. By that definition I would consider guys like George Martin, Brian Eno, Tom Dowd even Jam & Lewis great producers.

Forget chart success, I think Prince's short-coming as a producer (certainly during his glory days) is that he was simply creating Prince music and putting another singer's voice on top. I don't believe that Vanity or Apollonia came in the studio with a concept and Prince worked with them to translate their ideas to tape. Similarly I don't think he collaborated with Louie Louie or Carmen Electra to pull out previously untapped talent.

Perhaps I'm being a bit facetious, but seriously I would have liked to see Prince take a talented, creative artist and mix in a bit of the Prince magic rather than almost totally suppress what that artist may be able to offer, turning them into yet another "protege act"...

alphachannel said:

I'm not sure exactly what we know of Prince as a producer, and I guess much of the question depends on exactly what you expect the producer to do. In my opinion the producer's role is to find the best means to showcase the artist's sometimes talent, or to take their vision or concept and bring it to life. By that definition I would consider guys like George Martin, Brian Eno, Tom Dowd even Jam & Lewis great producers.

Forget chart success, I think Prince's short-coming as a producer (certainly during his glory days) is that he was simply creating Prince music and putting another singer's voice on top. I don't believe that Vanity or Apollonia came in the studio with a concept and Prince worked with them to translate their ideas to tape. Similarly I don't think he collaborated with Louie Louie or Carmen Electra to pull out previously untapped talent.

Perhaps I'm being a bit facetious, but seriously I would have liked to see Prince take a talented, creative artist and mix in a bit of the Prince magic rather than almost totally suppress what that artist may be able to offer, turning them into yet another "protege act"...

This is a great point. Prince acts just sound like second-rate Prince songs.

steakfinger said:

Prince needs a shit filter. Warners kept him from going off the rails in the old days.

I don't know where this urban legend came from: Warner for the most part actually let him do whatever the fuck he wanted even when they disagreed, because he was like their prodigal son. IIRC, the only known impact they ever had in his creative process until the war started in 1993 was...

- Asking him to add a pop song to 1999 (which led him to record the title track: great move but the album was already glorious anyway).

- Asking him to replace Horny Pony by Gett Off: brilliant move too but there again not a major change on the whole album anyway.

- Say no to a triple-album in 1987, which I think we all agree was a very BAD move considering how brilliant Crystal Ball was, and it was even more silly since they later agreed for a third (Black) album to be released in 1987 anyway

- Backing-up the old Time members when they wanted to join the boat for Corporate World/Pandemonium (cool move I guess).

- Backing-up Ingrid's wishes to sing on her own album (I love the album as it is so I won't complain).

- Ask for a tracklist change on Carmen On Top (the album remained as disastrous after the changes were made as before, though ).

And that's IT. Except for that they just let him make every decision and do what he wanted: spoiling money on motion pictures no one wanted to see, releasing side-projects no one cared about, chosing each of his singles (sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worse), singing scandalous lyrics, chosing albums content and cover art, touring Europe only on some tours, etc. They just SO MUCH left him alone all along the process!!!

So you can say Prince was his own shit-filter and he ain't no more if you think he ain't, but WB had nothing to do with his creative process between 78 and 92.

databank said:

steakfinger said:

Prince needs a shit filter. Warners kept him from going off the rails in the old days.

I don't know where this urban legend came from: Warner for the most part actually let him do whatever the fuck he wanted even when they disagreed, because he was like their prodigal son. IIRC, the only known impact they ever had in his creative process until the war started in 1993 was...

- Asking him to add a pop song to 1999 (which led him to record the title track: great move but the album was already glorious anyway).

- Asking him to replace Horny Pony by Gett Off: brilliant move too but there again not a major change on the whole album anyway.

- Say no to a triple-album in 1987, which I think we all agree was a very BAD move considering how brilliant Crystal Ball was, and it was even more silly since they later agreed for a third (Black) album to be released in 1987 anyway

- Backing-up the old Time members when they wanted to join the boat for Corporate World/Pandemonium (cool move I guess).

- Backing-up Ingrid's wishes to sing on her own album (I love the album as it is so I won't complain).

- Ask for a tracklist change on Carmen On Top (the album remained as disastrous after the changes were made as before, though ).

And that's IT. Except for that they just let him make every decision and do what he wanted: spoiling money on motion pictures no one wanted to see, releasing side-projects no one cared about, chosing each of his singles (sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worse), singing scandalous lyrics, chosing albums content and cover art, touring Europe only on some tours, etc. They just SO MUCH left him alone all along the process!!!

So you can say Prince was his own shit-filter and he ain't no more if you think he ain't, but WB had nothing to do with his creative process between 78 and 92.

Besides, from '79-89, how many bad songs did the guy even record? There are very few songs back then that would've needed filtering out anyway.

databank said:

steakfinger said:

Prince needs a shit filter. Warners kept him from going off the rails in the old days.

I don't know where this urban legend came from: Warner for the most part actually let him do whatever the fuck he wanted even when they disagreed, because he was like their prodigal son. IIRC, the only known impact they ever had in his creative process until the war started in 1993 was...

- Asking him to add a pop song to 1999 (which led him to record the title track: great move but the album was already glorious anyway).

- Asking him to replace Horny Pony by Gett Off: brilliant move too but there again not a major change on the whole album anyway.

- Say no to a triple-album in 1987, which I think we all agree was a very BAD move considering how brilliant Crystal Ball was, and it was even more silly since they later agreed for a third (Black) album to be released in 1987 anyway

- Backing-up the old Time members when they wanted to join the boat for Corporate World/Pandemonium (cool move I guess).

- Backing-up Ingrid's wishes to sing on her own album (I love the album as it is so I won't complain).

- Ask for a tracklist change on Carmen On Top (the album remained as disastrous after the changes were made as before, though ).

And that's IT. Except for that they just let him make every decision and do what he wanted: spoiling money on motion pictures no one wanted to see, releasing side-projects no one cared about, chosing each of his singles (sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worse), singing scandalous lyrics, chosing albums content and cover art, touring Europe only on some tours, etc. They just SO MUCH left him alone all along the process!!!

So you can say Prince was his own shit-filter and he ain't no more if you think he ain't, but WB had nothing to do with his creative process between 78 and 92.

I agree totally Steak, WB gave Prince more freedom that few artists -- certainly up & coming artists ever enjoyed.

The so-called "Sh*t Filter" was actually the music industry and technology that restricted an unlimited flow of music. Vinyl singles contained only 2 songs (usually resteicted to under 5 minutes), and single albums were about 45 minutes. In general artists released 1 album a year. No iTunes or web distribution and everyone bowed at the alter of Pop radio for mass marketing of songs.

We finally (with internet distribution) got the unrestricted stream of music that we've been begging for since the 70s, but things didn't turn out as planned

alphachannel said:

...I think Prince's short-coming as a producer (certainly during his glory days) is that he was simply creating Prince music and putting another singer's voice on top. I don't believe that Vanity or Apollonia came in the studio with a concept and Prince worked with them to translate their ideas to tape. Similarly I don't think he collaborated with Louie Louie or Carmen Electra to pull out previously untapped talent.

Perhaps I'm being a bit facetious, but seriously I would have liked to see Prince take a talented, creative artist and mix in a bit of the Prince magic rather than almost totally suppress what that artist may be able to offer, turning them into yet another "protege act"...

Hey Alpha! I think your pointed assessment of Prince's style of producing is very accurate; though, I don't necessarily think of it as a short-coming: results can range from classic (Sheila E.) to clashing (Carmen Electra's rapping). I say this out of love but Prince is kind of the Borg King of music (LOL); replicating himself and his vision through others. The part of me that loves Prince's music truly appreciates the partnerships he has developed with other artists over the years so he could have this expanded musical outlet, but a part of me has always been a bit uncomfortable seeing these talented people taking on names and identities conjured up in the recesses of Prince's mind. But it's certainly not against anyone's will, so I figure it's all good.

Getting back to the the primary question that started this thread, I am fully convinced Prince is capable of being a viable writer and producer for other artists. I think he has been--and remains up to the present day--a career-defining writer for other acts to varying "success", but few people are aware of it because Prince learned around the late '80s how to better cover his tracks. I may be completely deluded, but I have believed for many years that there is compelling evidence that Prince has continued all along to (ghost)write for several artists that are not acknowledged by Prince's camp nor recognized by fans/fams as "proteges"; artists that have in some cases received major air play, even main stream exposure, and significant financial success and/or critical acclaim wtih his material. I have no proof of any of this, mind you; this is just my personal interpretation of the data after many years of speculation.

The way I see it, Prince has still got it--and never lost it. I think he found a way to cultivate proteges in a more underground fashion.

- 337

alphachannel said:

databank said:

I don't know where this urban legend came from: Warner for the most part actually let him do whatever the fuck he wanted even when they disagreed, because he was like their prodigal son. IIRC, the only known impact they ever had in his creative process until the war started in 1993 was...

- Asking him to add a pop song to 1999 (which led him to record the title track: great move but the album was already glorious anyway).

- Asking him to replace Horny Pony by Gett Off: brilliant move too but there again not a major change on the whole album anyway.

- Say no to a triple-album in 1987, which I think we all agree was a very BAD move considering how brilliant Crystal Ball was, and it was even more silly since they later agreed for a third (Black) album to be released in 1987 anyway

- Backing-up the old Time members when they wanted to join the boat for Corporate World/Pandemonium (cool move I guess).

- Backing-up Ingrid's wishes to sing on her own album (I love the album as it is so I won't complain).

- Ask for a tracklist change on Carmen On Top (the album remained as disastrous after the changes were made as before, though ).

And that's IT. Except for that they just let him make every decision and do what he wanted: spoiling money on motion pictures no one wanted to see, releasing side-projects no one cared about, chosing each of his singles (sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worse), singing scandalous lyrics, chosing albums content and cover art, touring Europe only on some tours, etc. They just SO MUCH left him alone all along the process!!!

So you can say Prince was his own shit-filter and he ain't no more if you think he ain't, but WB had nothing to do with his creative process between 78 and 92.

I agree totally Steak, WB gave Prince more freedom that few artists -- certainly up & coming artists ever enjoyed.

The so-called "Sh*t Filter" was actually the music industry and technology that restricted an unlimited flow of music. Vinyl singles contained only 2 songs (usually resteicted to under 5 minutes), and single albums were about 45 minutes. In general artists released 1 album a year. No iTunes or web distribution and everyone bowed at the alter of Pop radio for mass marketing of songs.

We finally (with internet distribution) got the unrestricted stream of music that we've been begging for since the 70s, but things didn't turn out as planned

You don't agree with Steak, you agree with me

I don't think artists release more music than they did in the 80's. Actually back then an album every 2/3 years was the norm, not one every year. In the 60's and 70's it wasn't unusual for an artist to release 2 or even 3 albums every year, then for some reasons I never knew, the pace slowed down considerably in the 80's and has remained as such ever since. One album every 2/3 years is still the norm nowadays.

I think he could become a viable producer for other artists for the FIRST TIME in his life if he really concentrated on it (as he's about to hit the "retirement age" in a few years).

Having said that, I think his strength as a producer would be the more 1970s inspired soul / funk type of stuff than his own 1980s stuff.

I could see him doing something like that, along with curating music festivals etc.

As a producer, everything he produced ends up sounding like a Prince song with someone else singing. As we know lately, new Prince songs don't really "cut" it.

As another poster mentioned, he can't even write well or produce well for himself at the moment.

Should he work with Lil Wayne, Jay Z, Kanye, etc? Absolutely not. As history will point out, Prince and "rap" don't really mesh that well. Now, having said that, I do feel that if Prince opened up his songs for sampling, the market would blow up with Prince samples the same way they did with Parliament/George Clinton and also with Stevie Wonder.

I think he'd do well working with Bruno Mars, Rihanna, etc . . . more of the "pop" genre. Not producing though, just collaborations. He can sing the hell out of someone else's songs these days, he just can't write them himself.

Se7en said:

I think he'd do well working with Bruno Mars, Rihanna, etc . . . more of the "pop" genre. Not producing though, just collaborations. He can sing the hell out of someone else's songs these days, he just can't write them himself.

Hey Se7en,

I must disagree that Prince can't write well or can't write pop songs. IMO he is more than capable at doing both. I'm sure he'd prefer his music be widely embraced by fans and critics alike, but as long as I've been listening to him, the sum of popularity and financial success were never his sole incentive for writing music (though, probably a major incentive. Can't blame any artist for wanting to have food, roof overhead and maybe some nice stuff). If it were all about staying on top of the game, sure, Prince could go and write for artists like Rihanna and Bruno Mars, etc. I'm certain they would jump at the chance to work with him.

But like any artist, Prince also seems driven by the great satisfaction and fulfillment he finds in honoring his own inspiration. One of my all-time favorite quotes from P. (I may be paraphrasing here): "I don't give people what they want; I give them what they need." (That quote makes me laugh every time I say it.) So I maintain very high respect for Prince for all that he has accomplished according to his own definition of success, and on his own terms.

Exactly!

Prince has already been at the top with the "Purple Rain" project & doesn't care to go back.Even then he said he knew the audience at those shows we're just Purple Rain bandwagon fans. He deliberately put out ATWIOD to get rid of them.He basically could do whatever he wanted after that & still does..

These so called fans on here don't really know Prince. He can still slay any artist . Its just when he choses to is the question. When he does again all these peeps will have egg on their face.

When has Prince ever been a "viable" producer for other artists?

steakfinger said:

whodknee said:

Then he wouldn't be the producer. Many of you don't understand the creative process. No other type of artist is ridiculed for not collaborating or asked to forfeit the right to retain their own vision. Do we expect novelists, painters, or film directors for instance to stop creating on their own when they no longer live up to their own reputations? If you don't like the work you just don't buy it.

Actually, all these people you mentioned above with the exception of painters have editors, movie studios, financial backers and others to answer to. Published writers' works are almost always altered by an editor.

Prince needs a shit filter. Warners kept him from going off the rails in the old days.

You're right. Painters have financial backers to answer to as well. That is the unfortunate business end of things you're talking about. Outside editors are not necessary to creating great works of art. Companies use them to protect their investments so that the product can appeal to the widest audience possible.

Warners might've been good for Prince in terms of marketing and such but that's different than having an editor.

TonyVanDam said:

When has Prince ever been a "viable" producer for other artists?

Yes, definetely, am sure about that!