1725topp said:

Most of us like Purple Rain merely because it has Prince and his associates in it. Some of us, myself included, think that for a pop film (a film aimed at making money while being a vehicle/promo for Prince's music career) does an okay to good job of presenting some dimensional characters that engage interesting issues of why one makes art, what is friendship, how does one define love, and how one evaluates oneself. I'm not saying that any of these issues are explored deeply, but they are explored to varying degrees. At the core of the movie is the notion of The Kid as a flawed hero, which works because most people see themselves as flawed. It also helps that Morris Day is presented as a humorous and dimensional character, creating a great foil for the more serious/brooding Prince. Finally, the acting of Clarence Williams III gives the film its intensity, allowing the weaker acting of Prince and Day to thrive, if only for the fact that we need relief from Williams' intensity. (By the way, as a teenager, the first time I realized that my "mother" was also a "woman" was when she couldn't understand why anybody would want to see Prince in a movie but became quite interested in Purple Rain when she realized that Clarence Williams III was in it also. At that moment, I saw her morph from a displeased parent into a somewhat "turned on" woman, which still grosses me out to this day. I still have not been able to get that growl in her voice from my head, when she said, "You mean Linc from Mod Squad, oh my", but I digress.) So, ultimately, The Kid is the protagonist (hero) because the story centers on his emotional enlightenment or redemption. He's a self-centered brat at the beginning of the film, and he is a not so self-centered brat at the end of the film because he doesn't want to end like his father, who must shoot himself in the head to realize that he's gone too far. Mix all that with some nice tunes and nice breasts at a lake, and you got yourself an Eighties hit!

That's how I always looked at the film. Prince was turning into his father and he didn't wanna turn into that. That's why he changed somewhat at the end of the film.

leonche64 said:

I have always loved the movie. Lost count of how many times I have seen it over the years. This past weekend, my band played an outdoor festival in southern China. The day of sound check there was a rain delay so we are hanging out in the service tent/green room with a bunch of other bands. I put on the movie Purple Rain to pass the time and folks started gathering. We get called to the stage about 30 minutes into the movie for sound check, when we get back the movie is over.

I asked how was it and got some interesting responses from people who had never seen the movie before, and in many cases, were not aware of Prince. Namely, a Japanese girl guitar player who asked, "Why is The Kid the hero? Why not Morris? " It got me to thinking. The Kid is abusive to his girlfriend, is a bad employee by not showing up to meetings and leaving work early, refuses to help his friend form a band, does not treat his own band very well, and uses evil to make a monkey puppet talk. And he is generally sullen throughout the movie.

Meanwhile, Morris treats the ladies proper, shows up to work on time, helps his friends get into the business, has a great relationship with his band, and uses no evil magic. He is in good spirits and is a barrel of laughs throughout the movie.

Try watching the movie again with that in mind. I guess I always viewed The Kid as the hero because I knew Prince was the star going into it. If you go into it without a "colonized mind," the movie may have a different skew to it.

Thoughts anyone?

To this day I still don´t get that scene with the puppet. I mean, is Prince supposed to be a ventriloquist in that scene? Is it meant as some sort of dialogue with his inner twin? The whole movie is more or less realistic ( okay, a girl jumping into a lake in cold ass Minnesota and then putting on her leather clothes again after a few minutes while still being soak and wet is not very realistic but still....)...anyway, the movie is more or less realistic and then you have this scene where a puppet speaks to Prince?

What was that all about? And why do you interpret is a some sort of evil, magic thing?

By the way, you know sometimes evil is good.

KoolEaze said:

By the way, you know sometimes evil is good.

And if you get some evil ass...lawd ham'mercy!!!

Eddie Murphy is still the king!!! After Richard Pryor and George Carlon of course.

you need to see the anthony hopkins movie to understand what the puppet is about

[img:$uid]http://www.hopkinsfan.net/ah/files/Magic3_800X600.jpg[/img:$uid]

it's got nothing to do with the emo perv guy

Very good responses Orgers. (For the most part). Keep in mind that the people I watched the movie with had zero back-story in way of the actor's playing the characters, so everything was from the point of view of the movie. No Morris Day, no Prince, no Patricia Kotero. Just Morris, The Kid, and Appolonia.

1725topp said:

So, ultimately, The Kid is the protagonist (hero) because the story centers on his emotional enlightenment or redemption. He's a self-centered brat at the beginning of the film, and he is a not so self-centered brat at the end of the film because he doesn't want to end like his father, who must shoot himself in the head to realize that he's gone too far.

^^^I think that sums it up nicely. We with the prior knowledge of Prince wanted his character to succeed. However, it seems that the J-girls, that had no pre-existing bias, did not forgive the character by the end of the movie.

DecaturStone said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

that movie moves so fast, you could easily have longer/more scenes

Prince's character was the dark brooding musician we've always known, I don't know if he

was happier in that movie, how we would have received him.

He was known for the mystery, the quiet, the dark humor

Actually his character was pretty cool and happier until he had to go home, and it wasn't until the slap scene that he became angrier

Those home scene though were intense,

True this movie really had NO good guy. A very real movie unlike Graffiti Bridge which was TOO surreal.

I wish there really was a hope to get an unedited version. With the fight scene with Jellybean and all the scenes in the trailer that aren't in the movie

I know, some of those deleted scenes would be cool

I especially would have loved Jill Jones Wednesday scene and the extended almost incestuous gemini scene with the Kids mother

Graffiti Bridge just had no realistic passion at all to me

1725topp said:

Most of us like Purple Rain merely because it has Prince and his associates in it. Some of us, myself included, think that for a pop film (a film aimed at making money while being a vehicle/promo for Prince's music career) does an okay to good job of presenting some dimensional characters that engage interesting issues of why one makes art, what is friendship, how does one define love, and how one evaluates oneself. I'm not saying that any of these issues are explored deeply, but they are explored to varying degrees. At the core of the movie is the notion of The Kid as a flawed hero, which works because most people see themselves as flawed. It also helps that Morris Day is presented as a humorous and dimensional character, creating a great foil for the more serious/brooding Prince. Finally, the acting of Clarence Williams III gives the film its intensity, allowing the weaker acting of Prince and Day to thrive, if only for the fact that we need relief from Williams' intensity. (By the way, as a teenager, the first time I realized that my "mother" was also a "woman" was when she couldn't understand why anybody would want to see Prince in a movie but became quite interested in Purple Rain when she realized that Clarence Williams III was in it also. At that moment, I saw her morph from a displeased parent into a somewhat "turned on" woman, which still grosses me out to this day. I still have not been able to get that growl in her voice from my head, when she said, "You mean Linc from Mod Squad, oh my", but I digress.) So, ultimately, The Kid is the protagonist (hero) because the story centers on his emotional enlightenment or redemption. He's a self-centered brat at the beginning of the film, and he is a not so self-centered brat at the end of the film because he doesn't want to end like his father, who must shoot himself in the head to realize that he's gone too far. Mix all that with some nice tunes and nice breasts at a lake, and you got yourself an Eighties hit!

weird that the Kids father almost dying changed everyone from Morris (and Jerome) the Kid, Apollonia, Billy Sparks, the Revolution & Sheila E lol

the shadow of death has that kind of effect

OldFriends4Sale said:

1725topp said:

Most of us like Purple Rain merely because it has Prince and his associates in it. Some of us, myself included, think that for a pop film (a film aimed at making money while being a vehicle/promo for Prince's music career) does an okay to good job of presenting some dimensional characters that engage interesting issues of why one makes art, what is friendship, how does one define love, and how one evaluates oneself. I'm not saying that any of these issues are explored deeply, but they are explored to varying degrees. At the core of the movie is the notion of The Kid as a flawed hero, which works because most people see themselves as flawed. It also helps that Morris Day is presented as a humorous and dimensional character, creating a great foil for the more serious/brooding Prince. Finally, the acting of Clarence Williams III gives the film its intensity, allowing the weaker acting of Prince and Day to thrive, if only for the fact that we need relief from Williams' intensity. (By the way, as a teenager, the first time I realized that my "mother" was also a "woman" was when she couldn't understand why anybody would want to see Prince in a movie but became quite interested in Purple Rain when she realized that Clarence Williams III was in it also. At that moment, I saw her morph from a displeased parent into a somewhat "turned on" woman, which still grosses me out to this day. I still have not been able to get that growl in her voice from my head, when she said, "You mean Linc from Mod Squad, oh my", but I digress.) So, ultimately, The Kid is the protagonist (hero) because the story centers on his emotional enlightenment or redemption. He's a self-centered brat at the beginning of the film, and he is a not so self-centered brat at the end of the film because he doesn't want to end like his father, who must shoot himself in the head to realize that he's gone too far. Mix all that with some nice tunes and nice breasts at a lake, and you got yourself an Eighties hit!

weird that the Kids father almost dying changed everyone from Morris (and Jerome) the Kid, Apollonia, Billy Sparks, the Revolution & Sheila E lol

the shadow of death has that kind of effect

No doubt--even the worst of enemies can feel sympathy for an adversary's loss of a loved one, especially from a violent and sudden death, such as a car accident, homicide, and suicide. Of course the film, as an economically driven work of art, is reaching--possibly overreaching--for the high point of drama or the dramatic with the suicide attempt, but the film is well-structured enough that we see The Kid as a troubled young man from a troubled home, making his father's attempted suicide believable, if not self-fulfilling. After one of his many violent altercations with his wife, he does say, “I would die for you,” and there are two or three great references of how The Kid's "old man" has sabotaged his career in the same manner that it is presumed that The Kid is now sabotaging his own career. So, from a narrative structure, the suicide, for the viewers and the other characters (Morris, Jerome, Billy, Apollonia, and the Revolution), is not a surprise but still tragic, causing both empathy from them as well as self-reflection. Morris' moment after the "How's the family" remark is a great narrative/dramatic moment because the viewers see him as a self-reflective character with heart, which gives the story heart, making the viewers more empathetic to the story, which, of course, makes them more empathetic to The Kid.

*

What I find really interesting is how my step-son, who's thirty, and his friends are all the stereotypical thugged out black males (though I remind him that with a 401K from UPS he ain't that 'thugged out") raised mostly on hip hop relate to and really like Purple Rain. I don't want to overly psycho-analyze their reason for liking it, but I wonder how much of it has to do with the tension between The Kid and his father as most of them did not have a male figure in their homes. I'm sure Morris Day is a character that fits well within the hip hop aesthetic. But, given my experience of when hip hop was knocking Prince off radio and the charts, I never thought that the second or third wave of the hip hop generation would enjoy or identify with The Kid, but that may say more about my own disconnect with all things hip hop.

*

As for the Asian ladies perception of The Kid and Morris, I would agree with Leonche64 that their seeming lack of cultural familiarity of Prince meant that they did not initially engage the film hoping for Prince’s character “to win.” By 1984, most of the people who saw the film were Prince fans or understood that Prince was the assumed star/protagonist of the film. For the Asian ladies, with all things being equal, Morris just seems like a more empathetic character though I’m not sure why since he seems as sexist, if not more, as Prince. And I would wonder how much of their perception is related to Morris being more masculine, which I thought would make Morris a more empathetic or relatable character to the hip hop generation as well, but, again, just goes to show what I know.

Militant said:

http://prince.org/msg/7/387347

leonche64 said:

player who asked, "Why is The Kid the hero? Why not Morris? " It got me to thinking. f you go into it without a "colonized mind," the movie may have a different skew to it.

Thoughts anyone?

True, but Morris threw the lady in the dumpster, calls them bitches, and made a joke about Prince's daddy's self-inflicted gunshot wound.

The real hero: Bobby Z. His one line says more about the early 80s Minneapolis music scene than any of the other actors in the flick. "We're still a group, right?" Those few words sum up the battle of the bands, the loyalty towards your bandmates that Prince should have, that Morris obviously does. Z's also saying, remember, it's all about the music and performing, get your act together, we're doing something as a group that's bigger than any of us as individuals. That bigger thing is not just "making it, but also putting Minneapolis on the musical map. That process involves starting other popular groups like Apollonia 6 and the Time. So squash your problems with them, and get jammin'. We don't want MPLS to be known for Tony M.

Just my $0.02

Chas

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

weird that the Kids father almost dying changed everyone from Morris (and Jerome) the Kid, Apollonia, Billy Sparks, the Revolution & Sheila E lol

the shadow of death has that kind of effect

No doubt--even the worst of enemies can feel sympathy for an adversary's loss of a loved one, especially from a violent and sudden death, such as a car accident, homicide, and suicide. Of course the film, as an economically driven work of art, is reaching--possibly overreaching--for the high point of drama or the dramatic with the suicide attempt, but the film is well-structured enough that we see The Kid as a troubled young man from a troubled home, making his father's attempted suicide believable, if not self-fulfilling. After one of his many violent altercations with his wife, he does say, “I would die for you,” and there are two or three great references of how The Kid's "old man" has sabotaged his career in the same manner that it is presumed that The Kid is now sabotaging his own career. So, from a narrative structure, the suicide, for the viewers and the other characters (Morris, Jerome, Billy, Apollonia, and the Revolution), is not a surprise but still tragic, causing both empathy from them as well as self-reflection. Morris' moment after the "How's the family" remark is a great narrative/dramatic moment because the viewers see him as a self-reflective character with heart, which gives the story heart, making the viewers more empathetic to the story, which, of course, makes them more empathetic to The Kid.

*

What I find really interesting is how my step-son, who's thirty, and his friends are all the stereotypical thugged out black males (though I remind him that with a 401K from UPS he ain't that 'thugged out") raised mostly on hip hop relate to and really like Purple Rain. I don't want to overly psycho-analyze their reason for liking it, but I wonder how much of it has to do with the tension between The Kid and his father as most of them did not have a male figure in their homes. I'm sure Morris Day is a character that fits well within the hip hop aesthetic. But, given my experience of when hip hop was knocking Prince off radio and the charts, I never thought that the second or third wave of the hip hop generation would enjoy or identify with The Kid, but that may say more about my own disconnect with all things hip hop.

*

As for the Asian ladies perception of The Kid and Morris, I would agree with Leonche64 that their seeming lack of cultural familiarity of Prince meant that they did not initially engage the film hoping for Prince’s character “to win.” By 1984, most of the people who saw the film were Prince fans or understood that Prince was the assumed star/protagonist of the film. For the Asian ladies, with all things being equal, Morris just seems like a more empathetic character though I’m not sure why since he seems as sexist, if not more, as Prince. And I would wonder how much of their perception is related to Morris being more masculine, which I thought would make Morris a more empathetic or relatable character to the hip hop generation as well, but, again, just goes to show what I know.

Well, after acts like Parliament and James Brown, Prince did have a major influence on most of the urban music scene. And most talented hip hop producers know that Prince is THE SHIT when it comes to innovative drum programming and synths. Songs like When Doves Cry, Erotic City and many of the Jamie Starr and Camille songs had a heavy hip hop feel to it. The Time is alot more hip hop to me than hip hop usually is, and I'm as hip hop dude.

Chas said:

leonche64 said:

player who asked, "Why is The Kid the hero? Why not Morris? " It got me to thinking. f you go into it without a "colonized mind," the movie may have a different skew to it.

Thoughts anyone?

True, but Morris threw the lady in the dumpster, calls them bitches, and made a joke about Prince's daddy's self-inflicted gunshot wound.

The real hero: Bobby Z. His one line says more about the early 80s Minneapolis music scene than any of the other actors in the flick. "We're still a group, right?" Those few words sum up the battle of the bands, the loyalty towards your bandmates that Prince should have, that Morris obviously does. Z's also saying, remember, it's all about the music and performing, get your act together, we're doing something as a group that's bigger than any of us as individuals. That bigger thing is not just "making it, but also putting Minneapolis on the musical map. That process involves starting other popular groups like Apollonia 6 and the Time. So squash your problems with them, and get jammin'. We don't want MPLS to be known for Tony M.

Just my $0.02

Chas

I almost agree with you becasue I think the hero is Brownmark for containing and self control by not yelling out "Can I get one fuckin line in this bitch movie!?"

rdhull said:

Chas said:

True, but Morris threw the lady in the dumpster, calls them bitches, and made a joke about Prince's daddy's self-inflicted gunshot wound.

The real hero: Bobby Z. His one line says more about the early 80s Minneapolis music scene than any of the other actors in the flick. "We're still a group, right?" Those few words sum up the battle of the bands, the loyalty towards your bandmates that Prince should have, that Morris obviously does. Z's also saying, remember, it's all about the music and performing, get your act together, we're doing something as a group that's bigger than any of us as individuals. That bigger thing is not just "making it, but also putting Minneapolis on the musical map. That process involves starting other popular groups like Apollonia 6 and the Time. So squash your problems with them, and get jammin'. We don't want MPLS to be known for Tony M.

Just my $0.02

Chas

I almost agree with you becasue I think the hero is Brownmark for containing and self control by not yelling out "Can I get one fuckin line in this bitch movie!?"

leonche64 said:

The Kid [...] uses evil to make a monkey puppet talk.

Meanwhile, Morris treats the ladies proper, [...] and uses no evil magic.

imago said:

Like all of Prince's movies, Purple Rain is about love.

By love of course, I mean vaginas.

Essentially, you have to look at it from a high-brow concept sort of way.

In Purple Rain, love conquers all. You can beat your women, bu through the power of music, they will forgive you. But before you can snag her, you have to overpower her with your dark horse bisexual French Colonial figure skater aura.

And if you look at it as metaphor of love representing vaginas, you'll see that the women in the movie express pure love for their men. In essence, the women are surragates for the vagina itself. And since the men beat the vaginas, one can see that this is symbolic of a good hard pounding that leaves the vagina both bewildered and utterly satisfied.

What Prince is telling the world is that if you beat your vagina hard enough, it will certainly guide you to the Purple Rain.

By Purple Rain, I mean Larry Graham's bigass moustache.

It's very obvious if you pay attention.

I feel it's clear that The Kid is the "hero" in the movie, whether you're familiar with Prince or not. Morris' motivations are sex and money. His interest in Apollonia went no further than how she could help him attain these goals. However, The Kid loved her and was actually concerned with artistic expression and integrity. He just had to overcome his issues with trust and control before he could get what he desired.

xpertluva said:

I feel it's clear that The Kid is the "hero" in the movie, whether you're familiar with Prince or not. Morris' motivations are sex and money. His interest in Apollonia went no further than how she could help him attain these goals. However, The Kid loved her and was actually concerned with artistic expression and integrity. He just had to overcome his issues with trust and control before he could get what he desired.

Good points; although, you sounds like you're talking about Prince...not The Kid.

Hell, anybody with those issues for that matter.

Back to the movie. I don't see him (The Kid) as a hero. Unless you're saying that because he was the principle male in the movie...then, yeah, The Kid was the hero. And, I don't feel that his "position or take" on Apollonia had anything to do with artistic expression and integrity. He was that way towards her because of what he seen in his parents interactions. And, apparently, he wasn't the only one to witness the ill effects of his parents "musical partnership". Just go back to the conversation between Morris and Billy...paraphrasing: Boy, did he mess up his career...ruined his wife's too...

One of the previous orgers had said that he was basically becoming his father and as the movie played out that was definitely the case. I mean, The Kid actions with Apollonia (in some scenes) practically mirrored that of his father's. Especially in the basement scene when he "pimp-smacks" Apollonia for joining Morris's group.

Anyway, like I said before, the movie can go as "deep" as you want it.

mimi02 said:

xpertluva said:

I feel it's clear that The Kid is the "hero" in the movie, whether you're familiar with Prince or not. Morris' motivations are sex and money. His interest in Apollonia went no further than how she could help him attain these goals. However, The Kid loved her and was actually concerned with artistic expression and integrity. He just had to overcome his issues with trust and control before he could get what he desired.

Good points; although, you sounds like you're talking about Prince...not The Kid.

Hell, anybody with those issues for that matter.

Back to the movie. I don't see him (The Kid) as a hero. Unless you're saying that because he was the principle male in the movie...then, yeah, The Kid was the hero. And, I don't feel that his "position or take" on Apollonia had anything to do with artistic expression and integrity. He was that way towards her because of what he seen in his parents interactions. And, apparently, he wasn't the only one to witness the ill effects of his parents "musical partnership". Just go back to the conversation between Morris and Billy...paraphrasing: Boy, did he mess up his career...ruined his wife's too...

One of the previous orgers had said that he was basically becoming his father and as the movie played out that was definitely the case. I mean, The Kid actions with Apollonia (in some scenes) practically mirrored that of his father's. Especially in the basement scene when he "pimp-smacks" Apollonia for joining Morris's group.

Anyway, like I said before, the movie can go as "deep" as you want it.

right

im assuming the Fathers jealousy of his wife, prbably had something 2 do with the demise of her career ...him probably wanting her as only a house wife as well

the Kid said something to Apollonia about not wanting her in his life this way and why he refused to help her', he didn't want her a part of that scene

Vanessa Williams 1st husband wanted her to stop her career and be a house wife as a result of his insecurities too

Replica said:

1725topp said:

What I find really interesting is how my step-son, who's thirty, and his friends are all the stereotypical thugged out black males (though I remind him that with a 401K from UPS he ain't that 'thugged out") raised mostly on hip hop relate to and really like Purple Rain. I don't want to overly psycho-analyze their reason for liking it, but I wonder how much of it has to do with the tension between The Kid and his father as most of them did not have a male figure in their homes. I'm sure Morris Day is a character that fits well within the hip hop aesthetic. But, given my experience of when hip hop was knocking Prince off radio and the charts, I never thought that the second or third wave of the hip hop generation would enjoy or identify with The Kid, but that may say more about my own disconnect with all things hip hop.

*

And I would wonder how much of their perception is related to Morris being more masculine, which I thought would make Morris a more empathetic or relatable character to the hip hop generation as well, but, again, just goes to show what I know.

Well, after acts like Parliament and James Brown, Prince did have a major influence on most of the urban music scene. And most talented hip hop producers know that Prince is THE SHIT when it comes to innovative drum programming and synths. Songs like When Doves Cry, Erotic City and many of the Jamie Starr and Camille songs had a heavy hip hop feel to it. The Time is alot more hip hop to me than hip hop usually is, and I'm as hip hop dude.

Being one of the least hip hop persons I know, I'll defer to you. I don't personally hear the connection between any of Prince's pre-1989 music and hip hop, but that may just be my own bias against hip hop. I understand the whole big beat and keyboard similarity that has been suggested before, but for whatever reason I'm just oblivious to it. But, I can't refute the fact that Prince gets respect and love from some of the hip hop heads.

mimi02 said:

xpertluva said:

I feel it's clear that The Kid is the "hero" in the movie, whether you're familiar with Prince or not. Morris' motivations are sex and money. His interest in Apollonia went no further than how she could help him attain these goals. However, The Kid loved her and was actually concerned with artistic expression and integrity. He just had to overcome his issues with trust and control before he could get what he desired.

Good points; although, you sounds like you're talking about Prince...not The Kid.

Hell, anybody with those issues for that matter.

Back to the movie. I don't see him (The Kid) as a hero. Unless you're saying that because he was the principle male in the movie...then, yeah, The Kid was the hero. And, I don't feel that his "position or take" on Apollonia had anything to do with artistic expression and integrity. He was that way towards her because of what he seen in his parents interactions. And, apparently, he wasn't the only one to witness the ill effects of his parents "musical partnership". Just go back to the conversation between Morris and Billy...paraphrasing: Boy, did he mess up his career...ruined his wife's too...

One of the previous orgers had said that he was basically becoming his father and as the movie played out that was definitely the case. I mean, The Kid actions with Apollonia (in some scenes) practically mirrored that of his father's. Especially in the basement scene when he "pimp-smacks" Apollonia for joining Morris's group.

Anyway, like I said before, the movie can go as "deep" as you want it.

I used the word "hero" very loosely, meaning the person who has to get past some obstacle (in this case, The Kid's inner demons) to be victorious.

As far as artistic expression, The Kid was more concerned with using his music to vent and express his world view (as shown in the Computer Blue/Darling Nikki sequence and even the performance of Purple Rain) rather than just having fun and pandering to the crowd like The Time.

I completely agree with everything else you mentioned. The Kid was definitely on the same path as his father, both career wise and in his relationship.

It seems that some are confusing the term "protagonist," which merely means central figure, with the term "hero," which generally has a heightened favorable connotation. A protagonist does not have to be a "heroic" person. Often, the protagonist is usually flawed, struggling with internal as well as external issues. So, in that mode, The Kid is certainly the film's protagonist. Of course, to call him the film's hero would be based on how one defines a hero or heroism. Yet, what is clear is that The Kid does recognize his flaws and attempts to change them, i.e. playing Wendy and Lisa's song, seemingly forgiving his father, and reconciling with Apollonia. These are not heroic qualities, such as saving the town from destruction or saving a child's or spouse's life, but it is heroic in that it takes some amount of emotional and psychological fortitude to objectively analyze oneself and take the steps to make oneself a better person. Hell, if more people on this planet just did that, life would be one hundred times better. (And sadly, I know that I must state that I'm speaking in terms of what The Kid does in the film not what Prince, himself, has done since I know that many on this site can's seem to separate art from life.) Additionally, it is also not unusual for marginal characters, such as Bobby Z, to have meaningful lines or statements. In fact the Greek tragedy is based on this with marginal characters or the chorus serving as vehicles to provide meaningful dialogue that propels the protagonist into action. So, while we all realize that the Purple Rain project was probably more about being a vehicle to promote Prince's music career than it was designed to create great art, the story is well structured and layered in a way that several of the characters become empathetic because they can be symbolic of various lessons.

so... on reflection, Purple Rain is the cinematographic equivalent to

a Bildungsroman

1725topp said:

It seems that some are confusing the term "protagonist," which merely means central figure, with the term "hero," which generally has a heightened favorable connotation. A protagonist does not have to be a "heroic" person. Often, the protagonist is usually flawed, struggling with internal as well as external issues. So, in that mode, The Kid is certainly the film's protagonist. Of course, to call him the film's hero would be based on how one defines a hero or heroism. Yet, what is clear is that The Kid does recognize his flaws and attempts to change them, i.e. playing Wendy and Lisa's song, seemingly forgiving his father, and reconciling with Apollonia. These are not heroic qualities, such as saving the town from destruction or saving a child's or spouse's life, but it is heroic in that it takes some amount of emotional and psychological fortitude to objectively analyze oneself and take the steps to make oneself a better person. Hell, if more people on this planet just did that, life would be one hundred times better. (And sadly, I know that I must state that I'm speaking in terms of what The Kid does in the film not what Prince, himself, has done since I know that many on this site can's seem to separate art from life.) Additionally, it is also not unusual for marginal characters, such as Bobby Z, to have meaningful lines or statements. In fact the Greek tragedy is based on this with marginal characters or the chorus serving as vehicles to provide meaningful dialogue that propels the protagonist into action. So, while we all realize that the Purple Rain project was probably more about being a vehicle to promote Prince's music career than it was designed to create great art, the story is well structured and layered in a way that several of the characters become empathetic because they can be symbolic of various lessons.

maja2405 said:

so... on reflection, Purple Rain is the cinematographic equivalent to

a Bildungsroman

Purple Rain could be considered a popular culture flattening of or less in-depth adaptation of a Bildungsroman. It is not quite a coming of age story, per se, and the story does not begin with The Kid on a journey, searching for meaning. Quite the contrary, The Kid, at the beginning of the narrative, thinks that he is right and that everyone else is wrong. Thus, he is not searching for answers. However, once he is presented with circumstances that force him to evaluate himself, he makes changes. So, I could go with popularized (less complex) Bildungsroman.

xpertluva said:

I feel it's clear that The Kid is the "hero" in the movie, whether you're familiar with Prince or not. Morris' motivations are sex and money. His interest in Apollonia went no further than how she could help him attain these goals. However, The Kid loved her and was actually concerned with artistic expression and integrity. He just had to overcome his issues with trust and control before he could get what he desired.

There is the rub. These girls are musicians, sex and money is a world they understand. They know the game. Getting smacked around on the other hand...

leonche64 said:

xpertluva said:

I feel it's clear that The Kid is the "hero" in the movie, whether you're familiar with Prince or not. Morris' motivations are sex and money. His interest in Apollonia went no further than how she could help him attain these goals. However, The Kid loved her and was actually concerned with artistic expression and integrity. He just had to overcome his issues with trust and control before he could get what he desired.

There is the rub. These girls are musicians, sex and money is a world they understand. They know the game. Getting smacked around on the other hand...

to all that.

It's evident that Apollonia knew what to expect from Morris. Every interaction (well, maybe not in the alley after the groups debut) that they had she was clearly letting Morris know that she knew what he wanted and wasn't interested in being romantically linked with him. Remember Morris approached her with the promise of being a big star and she only accepted his offer because The Kid refused to help her. Also, because of Morris's transparency (he clearly wanted to f@#k her and would probably use him helping her as a tool to get it), she could attempt to set boundaries. She didn't know how to "handle" The Kid, because the only thing that he was clear on was that he wasn't going to help her musically.

OldFriends4Sale said:

DecaturStone said:

True this movie really had NO good guy. A very real movie unlike Graffiti Bridge which was TOO surreal.

I wish there really was a hope to get an unedited version. With the fight scene with Jellybean and all the scenes in the trailer that aren't in the movie

I know, some of those deleted scenes would be cool

I especially would have loved Jill Jones Wednesday scene and the extended almost incestuous gemini scene with the Kids mother

Graffiti Bridge just had no realistic passion at all to me

Like many people on here I would LOVE to see a true UNCUT version of PR, but like many people on here I know that will NEVER happen.

As for GB, it was an awful movie. I'm sorry, but I can not tell a lie

There was nothing redeeming about it, at least UTCM has some fairly watchable scenes. In fact, Tracy's death scene has more watchability (is that a word ) than the entire GB movie. But, the part that irked me more than anything else about GB was that it was sold as a sequel to PR!!! As a sequel it failed tremendously, because it made (imo) what made you smile at the conclusion of PR seem like it never happened. In other words, The Kid NEVER resolved any of his issues.

Ok, back to the topic.

I want to know how Prince discussed the choreography for Computer Blue

The Kid:

"We are going to do a rolling groove shouder shuffle but in the breakdown, Wendy, you will simulate giving me head."

Wendy:

"K"

Dr. Fink was always the hero of PR to me