the interesting thing I find, and therefore can't count Erotic City and songs before the Dream Factory/Crystal Ball/SOTT sessions, is that 'Camille' came about due to Susan Rogers screwing up and recording Prince's vocals at the wrong speed on 'If I was your Girlfriend'....

songs after that could theoretically be attributed to Camille IMHO...although only Prince knows if that theory can also be used on songs like PFUNK.....'The Grand Progression' is mentioned on that cut and that was originally in the Graffiti Bridge concept which of course had the Camille character....

but yeah I side with the 'Camille' album tracks as Camille's...anything else is speculation

I wish Susan Rogers was still around, 'Forever in my Life' was also a 'happy accident' in that the background vocals were layered/timed wrongly, but Prince liked it so kept it....

the SOTT period sessions were probably his most prolific time in the studio that we know of. - he had just fired The Revolution so had a point to prove...

the last 20 years or so of Prince's studio sessions is pretty much a mystery - not much has leaked since the early 90's so with that in mind I am sure Prince was well aware of the consequences of the Black Album being canned...and of course Lovesexy to Graffiti Bridge was the result....

jimino1 said:

the interesting thing I find, and therefore can't count Erotic City and songs before the Dream Factory/Crystal Ball/SOTT sessions, is that 'Camille' came about due to Susan Rogers screwing up and recording Prince's vocals at the wrong speed on 'If I was your Girlfriend'....

songs after that could theoretically be attributed to Camille IMHO...although only Prince knows if that theory can also be used on songs like PFUNK.....'The Grand Progression' is mentioned on that cut and that was originally in the Graffiti Bridge concept which of course had the Camille character....

but yeah I side with the 'Camille' album tracks as Camille's...anything else is speculation

I wish Susan Rogers was still around, 'Forever in my Life' was also a 'happy accident' in that the background vocals were layered/timed wrongly, but Prince liked it so kept it....

the SOTT period sessions were probably his most prolific time in the studio that we know of. - he had just fired The Revolution so had a point to prove...

the last 20 years or so of Prince's studio sessions is pretty much a mystery - not much has leaked since the early 90's so with that in mind I am sure Prince was well aware of the consequences of the Black Album being canned...and of course Lovesexy to Graffiti Bridge was the result....

actually his most prolific time was with the Revolution via 1985/86 his largest catalogue of music released and created(unreleased) remember that the SOTT music was the Dream Factory album, Prince didnt create that album with the SOTT band

We had a discussion on the 1986 period of music, google it if u can, lots of good info

the SOTT period of 1987 had not actual outtakes

from the 1986 sessions were the over 30+ songs from the Dream Factory project, many of the Camille tracks were created during this period (the Camille album was started early 1986) including Rock Hard in a Funky Place, more than 1/2 of Prince Graffiti Bridge music was outtakes from either the DFactory or 1986 , the song Eye No from Lovesexy is a Dream Factory outtake Ball, Joy in Repetition a 1986 outtake

there was also the 20+ songs from the Flesh sessions, U Gotta Shake Something & Its Gonna Be a Beautiful Night are attached to those sessions

as well as the many other outtakes that we dont know what particular album or project they were considered for: Go, Splash, Wonderfull Ass, Cosmic Day, Adonis & Bathsheba, Make Yo Momma Happy Others Here With Us, etc

the Parade outtakes, the Family music + Feline, Miss Understood, Mia Bocca, Mazarati + Jerk Out, Sheila E music

Parade/Dream Factory 1986 was Prince most prolific period

jimino1 said:

'Camille' came about due to Susan Rogers screwing up and recording Prince's vocals at the wrong speed on 'If I was your Girlfriend'....

I wish Susan Rogers was still around, 'Forever in my Life' was also a 'happy accident' in that the background vocals were layered/timed wrongly, but Prince liked it so kept it....

I've ssaid this before and I'll say it again here. Susan Rogers seemed to fuck up a LOT for a professional.

If these are the 'happy accidents', I'd like to know the other mistakes she made over the years. Nevertheless, the results were great helped take Prince's music in a direction even he wasn't expecting.

She's still wrong about Adonis & Bathsheba though!

erik319 said:

jimino1 said:

'Camille' came about due to Susan Rogers screwing up and recording Prince's vocals at the wrong speed on 'If I was your Girlfriend'....

I wish Susan Rogers was still around, 'Forever in my Life' was also a 'happy accident' in that the background vocals were layered/timed wrongly, but Prince liked it so kept it....

I've ssaid this before and I'll say it again here. Susan Rogers seemed to fuck up a LOT for a professional.

If these are the 'happy accidents', I'd like to know the other mistakes she made over the years. Nevertheless, the results were great helped take Prince's music in a direction even he wasn't expecting.

She's still wrong about Adonis & Bathsheba though!

lol I don't know of any other 'fuck up's' by Susan

She obviously was good, because Prince begged her to stay with him with talks of love

and she was his main engineer from his hottest time period

erik319 said:

Which would add more fuel to the belief that the Black Album was intentionally leaked by Prince.

Sigh... It's 2012. Every minute detail about TBA has been discussed ad nauseam. And yet people like you continue to spout rubbish like the above.

Read http://prince.org/wiki/The_Black_Album before you continue promoting long debunked nonsense.

.

[Edited 11/23/12 11:24am]

[Edited 11/23/12 11:25am]

jimino1 said:

the interesting thing I find, and therefore can't count Erotic City and songs before the Dream Factory/Crystal Ball/SOTT sessions, is that 'Camille' came about due to Susan Rogers screwing up and recording Prince's vocals at the wrong speed on 'If I was your Girlfriend'....

Bzzzt WRONG. Rogers talked about the DISTORTION on his voice.

erik319 said:

jimino1 said:

'Camille' came about due to Susan Rogers screwing up and recording Prince's vocals at the wrong speed on 'If I was your Girlfriend'....

I wish Susan Rogers was still around, 'Forever in my Life' was also a 'happy accident' in that the background vocals were layered/timed wrongly, but Prince liked it so kept it....

I've ssaid this before and I'll say it again here. Susan Rogers seemed to fuck up a LOT for a professional.

Oh please. The woman is an industry legend and deserves nothing than praise for putting up with Prince's nonsense for years while helping him create the body of work that will forever be his legacy. Her "fuck-ups" were caused by grueling work schedules and having to operate a half-finished recording studio. Lemme see you work for days on end in a half-finished recording studio in a basement and then count the mistakes.

Go listen to Kirky J's plastic production if you want to hear a continuous stream of fuck-ups. (And Prince released albums of that shit.)

BartVanHemelen said:

erik319 said:

I've ssaid this before and I'll say it again here. Susan Rogers seemed to fuck up a LOT for a professional.

Oh please. The woman is an industry legend and deserves nothing than praise for putting up with Prince's nonsense for years while helping him create the body of work that will forever be his legacy. Her "fuck-ups" were caused by grueling work schedules and having to operate a half-finished recording studio. Lemme see you work for days on end in a half-finished recording studio in a basement and then count the mistakes.

Go listen to Kirky J's plastic production if you want to hear a continuous stream of fuck-ups. (And Prince released albums of that shit.)

yes, give up the ...

BartVanHemelen said:

erik319 said:

I've ssaid this before and I'll say it again here. Susan Rogers seemed to fuck up a LOT for a professional.

Oh please. The woman is an industry legend and deserves nothing than praise for putting up with Prince's nonsense for years while helping him create the body of work that will forever be his legacy. Her "fuck-ups" were caused by grueling work schedules and having to operate a half-finished recording studio. Lemme see you work for days on end in a half-finished recording studio in a basement and then count the mistakes.

Go listen to Kirky J's plastic production if you want to hear a continuous stream of fuck-ups. (And Prince released albums of that shit.)

jimino1 said:

the interesting thing I find, and therefore can't count Erotic City and songs before the Dream Factory/Crystal Ball/SOTT sessions, is that 'Camille' came about due to Susan Rogers screwing up and recording Prince's vocals at the wrong speed on 'If I was your Girlfriend'....

How can you unintentionally "record vocals at the wrong speed"?

Wildboy said:

Camille is the original fancy lesbian

Don't forget Feel U Up. Song is a masterpiece with a lot of double meanings. Don't think it gets it's due on the org

true ... especially the long stroke...

Dave1992 said:

jimino1 said:

the interesting thing I find, and therefore can't count Erotic City and songs before the Dream Factory/Crystal Ball/SOTT sessions, is that 'Camille' came about due to Susan Rogers screwing up and recording Prince's vocals at the wrong speed on 'If I was your Girlfriend'....

How can you unintentionally "record vocals at the wrong speed"?

whatever LOL - I wasn't there and only going by memory from stories I've read... bzzzt...so shoot me... Bart finally schooled me - it was a problem with distortion seemingly...there you go LOL!!

the '85 - '86 timeframe - which is pretty much when Prince did the dream factory/crystal ball/the flesh/SOTT sessions - it's hard to know which belongs to what because the concept changed from when he had the revolution backing him in the beginning to when he finally released SOTT as a solo album...Camille was in there somewhere in the middle - although how early on who actually knows other than Prince and maybe the engineers...

all I know it is indeed a crime Adonis and Bathsheba still hasn't been released officially - Susan must have had a really bad day to not recognise the beauty in that song - mind you she must have heard a lot of incredible stuff....wally?

[Edited 11/26/12 2:23am]

jimino1 said:

all I know it is indeed a crime Adonis and Bathsheba still hasn't been released officially - Susan must have had a really bad day to not recognise the beauty in that song

Honestly that was a real let down of a song, Susan Rogers was right.That song is dee are eye pee pee why.

Prince got it right on Adore, but you don't really need a million copies of the theme whichever came first. Scandalous, Insantiable and the stuff he did in this theme post TRC were all derivative.

BartVanHemelen said:

erik319 said:

Which would add more fuel to the belief that the Black Album was intentionally leaked by Prince.

Sigh... It's 2012. Every minute detail about TBA has been discussed ad nauseam. And yet people like you continue to spout rubbish like the above.

Read http://prince.org/wiki/The_Black_Album before you continue promoting long debunked nonsense.

.

[Edited 11/23/12 11:24am]

[Edited 11/23/12 11:25am]

He didn't leak it, but he did give away a lot of copies, before he decided to shelve it

jimino1 said:

Dave1992 said:

How can you unintentionally "record vocals at the wrong speed"?

whatever LOL - I wasn't there and only going by memory from stories I've read... bzzzt...so shoot me... Bart finally schooled me - it was a problem with distortion seemingly...there you go LOL!!

the '85 - '86 timeframe - which is pretty much when Prince did the dream factory/crystal ball/the flesh/SOTT sessions - it's hard to know which belongs to what because the concept changed from when he had the revolution backing him in the beginning to when he finally released SOTT as a solo album...Camille was in there somewhere in the middle - although how early on who actually knows other than Prince and maybe the engineers...

all I know it is indeed a crime Adonis and Bathsheba still hasn't been released officially - Susan must have had a really bad day to not recognise the beauty in that song - mind you she must have heard a lot of incredible stuff....wally?

[Edited 11/26/12 2:23am]

Actually, I don't think it was that rare that people ended up recording instrumental and vocal parts at the "wrong speed" when tape machines were widely used. They have a simple speed control dial on them and sometimes people just left it on the wrong position accidentally (pfft, I've done that plenty of times). For example, sometimes they'd slow down the playing speed for guitar solos and then speed it all up again. Searching for editing points was done by manipulating the playback speed, and so on. Some units did not even have the "zero" position marked very clearly on them. Whereas a small change pitch / speed might not be that noticeable with synths and drum machines, it's certainly more noticeable with vocals.

Not a comment on how the "Camille" voice came about. Just a comment on the "wrong speed" thing.

[Edited 11/26/12 6:09am]

novabrkr said:

jimino1 said:

whatever LOL - I wasn't there and only going by memory from stories I've read... bzzzt...so shoot me... Bart finally schooled me - it was a problem with distortion seemingly...there you go LOL!!

the '85 - '86 timeframe - which is pretty much when Prince did the dream factory/crystal ball/the flesh/SOTT sessions - it's hard to know which belongs to what because the concept changed from when he had the revolution backing him in the beginning to when he finally released SOTT as a solo album...Camille was in there somewhere in the middle - although how early on who actually knows other than Prince and maybe the engineers...

all I know it is indeed a crime Adonis and Bathsheba still hasn't been released officially - Susan must have had a really bad day to not recognise the beauty in that song - mind you she must have heard a lot of incredible stuff....wally?

[Edited 11/26/12 2:23am]

Actually, I don't think it was that rare that people ended up recording instrumental and vocal parts at the "wrong speed" when tape machines were widely used. They have a simple speed control dial on them and sometimes people just left it on the wrong position accidentally (pfft, I've done that plenty of times). For example, sometimes they'd slow down the playing speed for guitar solos and then speed it all up again. Searching for editing points was done by manipulating the playback speed, and so on. Some units did not even have the "zero" position marked very clearly on them. Whereas a small change pitch / speed might not be that noticeable with synths and drum machines, it's certainly more noticeable with vocals.

Not a comment on how the "Camille" voice came about. Just a comment on the "wrong speed" thing.

[Edited 11/26/12 6:09am]

Still, you'd usually take exact notes about the speed of a song and make sure the tape runs at the desired speed before pressing "record". Plus, it is very rare that you'd make a finished instrumental mix before recording the vocals on top of that (for obvious mixing reasons etc.) and then, out of a sudden, have the speed of the tape changed for the last vocal track.

(I know you weren't implying anything about IIWYG, but just for the sake of it, -) to make a voice recording change that much in pitch (a couple of semitones) you'd need to vastly change the speed of the tape. A fuck-up like this simply cannot be likely in a professional recording studio...

I would say YES!!!

ALL of those songs just bust in your face!

Shockadelica being one of my favorites!

BartVanHemelen said:

erik319 said:

I've ssaid this before and I'll say it again here. Susan Rogers seemed to fuck up a LOT for a professional.

Oh please. The woman is an industry legend and deserves nothing than praise for putting up with Prince's nonsense for years while helping him create the body of work that will forever be his legacy. Her "fuck-ups" were caused by grueling work schedules and having to operate a half-finished recording studio. Lemme see you work for days on end in a half-finished recording studio in a basement and then count the mistakes.

And while we're talking about her: https://www.facebook.com/...amp;type=1

OldFriends4Sale said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Sigh... It's 2012. Every minute detail about TBA has been discussed ad nauseam. And yet people like you continue to spout rubbish like the above.

Read http://prince.org/wiki/The_Black_Album before you continue promoting long debunked nonsense.

He didn't leak it, but he did give away a lot of copies, before he decided to shelve it

No he didn't. What leaked were promo copies that had been sent out and boxes that didn't get back to the warehouse (because some people realised that there was money to be made).

I repeat: we know just about everything about TBA there is to be known. There is no need to make up shit when all the facts are known.

ROCK

HARD

IN

A

FUNKY

PLACE

BartVanHemelen said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

He didn't leak it, but he did give away a lot of copies, before he decided to shelve it

No he didn't. What leaked were promo copies that had been sent out and boxes that didn't get back to the warehouse (because some people realised that there was money to be made).

I repeat: we know just about everything about TBA there is to be known. There is no need to make up shit when all the facts are known.

people that worked for him were quoted in the Rise & Fall of Prince, that he gave copies away

i still firmly believe that prince never intended to release "the black album" back in 1987...it simply doesnt stand up in quality to his other 80s albums...what happened to it was exactly what he wanted..becoming a famous bootleg album..

Anyone ever pitch shifted the 'camille' tracks to P's regular voice? the results are quite interesting.

blackbob said:

i still firmly believe that prince never intended to release "the black album" back in 1987...it simply doesnt stand up in quality to his other 80s albums...what happened to it was exactly what he wanted..becoming a famous bootleg album..

I kinda thought the same way.

But when I think of the what if's such as videos, the kinds of shows he would probably do, the aftershows, the look, Bsides etc I can see it being a hot period.

I could see Prince doing more smaller venues, obscure spots, a more raw 'darker' show