novabrkr said: No, you do not really have to say that. I just wanted to make it clear that I consider "Rock'n'Roll Love Affair" to be somewhat reminiscent of some of the work Prince did in the early-90s, but I am aware that many people would not hear it that way. Probably not the answer you were looking for, but that's what you get for ending a sentence with a question mark.

*

My question was rhetorical, making a point, so I wasn’t looking for a particular response. Not that I didn’t think that you wouldn’t have a response, but with a rhetorical question I was making a statement, a point, not asking a question, per se. With my rhetorical question I was stating that by opening your statement with “Since we’re stating opinion,” you could be seen as minimizing my statements as being invalid or less “valid” as yours or anyone else’s.

*

novabrkr said: Opinions aren't really valid or invalid. You probably mean "valuable".

*

Actually, opinions can be “valid,” because they can be “effective,” “justifiable,” or “logical,” meaning that, while one may not have or may not present empirical data, the opinion, itself, can be “sound” or “sensible.” Professionals, such as doctors and judges, have medical and judicial opinions—dissenting opinions—that are considered “valid” all the time. So, yes, I meant “valid” as in what makes your opinion more justifiable, sound, or sensible than mine?

*

novabrkr said: I've commented on this site before that I don't take seriously comments that describe a body of work from a long period of time in unreasonably negative terms (such as simply deeming it all "garbage" or "shit"). To me this implies strongly that the person making such comments has a personal need to divide Prince's work into "good" and "bad" by some arbitrary criteria and isn't willing to judge each piece individually. Given that your view on Prince's outtake material isn't what most fans share that probably applies to you. To put it in friendlier terms: you don't need to slag off one part of Prince's musical legacy in order to defend another part of it. That's completely unnecessary. Not everyone on this site thinks the output from the past 12 years is bad. I think it's mostly good or at least as good as most of the outtakes from the 80s period (if not as good as the album stuff from the 80s).

*

It seems that you are being as overly general, sweeping, and stereotypical as you are accusing me of being by accusing me of something that I have never done. Like I said, I have spent thirty-four years listening to Prince’s work as closely as anyone. Thus, I have heard hundreds of individual unreleased studio bootlegs several times, and the vast majority of the bootlegs don’t move me. Thus, I am not “slagging off one part of Prince’s musical legacy in order to defend another part of it.” I don’t like the vast majority of the unreleased studio bootlegs, including those from 1978 to 1989. And, I am just as surprised by people who say that these works made them become a Prince fan or holds their attention now as many of those people are surprised by people like me who love his post 1999 work as equally as I love his eighties work. I’m not “dividing his work into ‘good’ and ‘bad’ by some arbitrary criteria”. Quite frankly, I rarely even think about the unreleased studio bootlegs until someone on this site raves about one, and if I remember it and don’t like it I just shrug my shoulders and say to myself “I can hear why it was unreleased.” And unlike the others who are constantly posting their hatred for Prince’s post1999 work, this is the first time since I joined this site in 2004 that I have revealed that I don’t like the unreleased studio bootlegs so you can’t compare me to the “people who have a personal need to divide Prince’s work into ‘good’ and ‘bad’”. So, allow me to repeat what I said. I think that much of what Prince has created after 1999 is much more well-crafted than the unreleased studio bootlegs, including those from 1978 to 1989. However, I love Prince’s released work from the eighties, so how am I “slagging off one part of Prince’s musical legacy”? The answer is: I’m not. I love everything from For You to Batman, so what part of Prince’s musical legacy am I “dividing into ‘good’ and ‘bad’” or “slagging off” when I’m clearly showing my love for the vast majority of work that Prince decided to release to the public during that period? I love the songs that Prince released for sale during the eighties so how am I “slagging off” that part of his legacy? Again, the answer is: I’m not.

thedance said:

I really dislike the song,

it's NOT that kind of Prince songs I like..

it reminds me of a weak version of "Cream" or another "country-light" song: "The One U Wanna C".

Not funky at all,

IF Prince is trying to do a "pop song" with "R & R L A" -- then where's the melody..

Possibly you are responding to someone else, but in my post I never said that Prince was trying to create a "pop song." I said that musically it is damn near everything that is American music, except jazz (because it has elements of rock, soul, country, and funk), which is one of the things that I love about Prince--his ability to blend styles seamlessly. Additionally, I don't have a particular "kind" of Prince song I like because I love his ability to do so many things well, which is what he does in "RocknRoll Love Affair," and the attitude or sensibility of the song is funky in that the bass or bottom keeps the groove in the pocket while his vocal delivery and the guitar expand the texture of the song with the keyboards/organ keeping it all glued, also giving it a dash of gospel feel during the slight changes. There is a lot happening in this song, and I love it when Prince does this, especially when he creates a musical soup that so amalgamates the various sounds that it can only be called Prince's sound.

Upon first listen i was a little baffled as with a lot of music. The Kimmel performance I DVR'd as I had to get up for work early & couldn't let Prince jeopardize that, unless he was coiming to perform close to my area!

Since then I have played both the studio & live versions of this song at least 7 times a day & I must say, DAMN THIS IS GREAT!!!

I kinda get a country blues type of feel to it also, and it somehow reminds me of Springsteen's "Glory Days".

Giovanni777 said:

I've been posting regularly on this site about how strong Prince's material has been in the 21st Century, and I even stated that the 'Lotusflow3r' album easily stands next to (and in many ways crushes) any album he's ever released.

This mostly falls upon deaf ears and blind eyes though, because the majority of folks on this site will simply refuse to listen with a fresh, current perspective, and instead, feel that they must compare present and past. They are so attached to the past, that they can't hear the brilliance going on today.

Yes, it's obviouslya conspiracy, which also involves the general public (which also does not seems to care one bit about Prince's output of the past decade and a half) and Prince himself, who can't be arsed to promote an album by touring it and playing songs from it. Hell, he thinks his own output is so shitty he can't even be arsed to release it and often just gives it away for free with tickets or newspapers.

But why take into account those facts, when you can simply accuse everyone else of being stuck int he past, an opinion not based on anything except your own prejudices.

BartVanHemelen said:

Giovanni777 said:

I've been posting regularly on this site about how strong Prince's material has been in the 21st Century, and I even stated that the 'Lotusflow3r' album easily stands next to (and in many ways crushes) any album he's ever released.

This mostly falls upon deaf ears and blind eyes though, because the majority of folks on this site will simply refuse to listen with a fresh, current perspective, and instead, feel that they must compare present and past. They are so attached to the past, that they can't hear the brilliance going on today.

Yes, it's obviouslya conspiracy, which also involves the general public (which also does not seems to care one bit about Prince's output of the past decade and a half) and Prince himself, who can't be arsed to promote an album by touring it and playing songs from it. Hell, he thinks his own output is so shitty he can't even be arsed to release it and often just gives it away for free with tickets or newspapers.

But why take into account those facts, when you can simply accuse everyone else of being stuck int he past, an opinion not based on anything except your own prejudices.

Nobody has said anything 'bout no damn “conspiracy” so stop trying to create a stick figure/straw hut argument that you can defeat or knock down with "your own prejudices." I love how you omit the facts that Prince was paid upfront for releasing an album in newspapers and that the price for the cd was billed into the ticket as well as that it was a great marketing strategy. But, you're so hell bent on making the rest of us hate Prince’s current output as much as you do that you don't allow the facts to get in the way of your need to trash Prince's work over the past (whatever number you need) years.

*

Secondly, I could give a flying fuck about the general public. Have you heard what passes for a hit song over the past twelve to twenty years? And you are basing and comparing Prince's creativity and talent to that bullshit? Man, please. Take your bitter, weak ass argument and sell it to somebody whose ears are filled with the nostalgia of the past.

*

And, finally, you do realize that getting as angry over an album or any work of art that you don't like signifies that something is wrong with you. Of this entire debate, I am constantly amazed by how many people act like it is the end of the world that an artist no longer moves them. Really!?! It is only natural that some of us don’t like Prince’s output over the past twelve to twenty years and some of us do. That’s life, playa. But, when people like you spend almost every day on this site trying to convince us to be as disappointed and bitter as you, that’s…just damn spooky, and I don’t mean Spooky Electric. Dude, go masturbate on your hate somewhere else 'cause I'm loving "RocknRoall Love Affair" too much to be bothered by someone whose entire existence seems to be to make sure that everyone is as disappointed and as bitter as you are. One da one...I'm out.

BartVanHemelen said:

Yes, it's obviouslya conspiracy, which also involves the general public (which also does not seems to care one bit about Prince's output of the past decade and a half) and Prince himself, who can't be arsed to promote an album by touring it and playing songs from it. Hell, he thinks his own output is so shitty he can't even be arsed to release it and often just gives it away for free with tickets or newspapers.

But why take into account those facts, when you can simply accuse everyone else of being stuck int he past, an opinion not based on anything except your own prejudices.

Prince knows the general public don't care. That's exactly why he 'gave away' CD's in a newspaper. He got paid more upfront for releasing Planet Earth through the paper than he would ever have got for releasing it in stores in the UK.

1725topp said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Yes, it's obviouslya conspiracy, which also involves the general public (which also does not seems to care one bit about Prince's output of the past decade and a half) and Prince himself, who can't be arsed to promote an album by touring it and playing songs from it. Hell, he thinks his own output is so shitty he can't even be arsed to release it and often just gives it away for free with tickets or newspapers.

But why take into account those facts, when you can simply accuse everyone else of being stuck int he past, an opinion not based on anything except your own prejudices.

Nobody has said anything 'bout no damn “conspiracy” so stop trying to create a stick figure/straw hut argument that you can defeat or knock down with "your own prejudices." I love how you omit the facts that Prince was paid upfront for releasing an album in newspapers and that the price for the cd was billed into the ticket as well as that it was a great marketing strategy. But, you're so hell bent on making the rest of us hate Prince’s current output as much as you do that you don't allow the facts to get in the way of your need to trash Prince's work over the past (whatever number you need) years.

*

Secondly, I could give a flying fuck about the general public. Have you heard what passes for a hit song over the past twelve to twenty years? And you are basing and comparing Prince's creativity and talent to that bullshit? Man, please. Take your bitter, weak ass argument and sell it to somebody whose ears are filled with the nostalgia of the past.

*

And, finally, you do realize that getting as angry over an album or any work of art that you don't like signifies that something is wrong with you. Of this entire debate, I am constantly amazed by how many people act like it is the end of the world that an artist no longer moves them. Really!?! It is only natural that some of us don’t like Prince’s output over the past twelve to twenty years and some of us do. That’s life, playa. But, when people like you spend almost every day on this site trying to convince us to be as disappointed and bitter as you, that’s…just damn spooky, and I don’t mean Spooky Electric. Dude, go masturbate on your hate somewhere else 'cause I'm loving "RocknRoall Love Affair" too much to be bothered by someone whose entire existence seems to be to make sure that everyone is as disappointed and as bitter as you are. One da one...I'm out.

1725topp said:

I love how you omit the facts that Prince was paid upfront for releasing an album in newspapers

That has ZILCH to do with the quality. Those same newspapers also pay other artists to include their CD.

and that the price for the cd was billed into the ticket as well as that it was a great marketing strategy.

Zilch relevance.

Secondly, I could give a flying fuck about the general public.

How come records that are "just as good or even better" as those he released in the 1980s do not sell? What great conspiracy is stopping all these people from buying his records (other than Prince not being arsed to release them)?

And, finally, you do realize that getting as angry over an album or any work of art that you don't like signifies that something is wrong with you.

I'm not the one who is angry. I'm just pointing out some facts: that PRINCE HIMSELF obviously does not think his recent out put is any good, considering he can't even be arsed to release them. YOU are the one who is angry about me pointing this out.

Of this entire debate, I am constantly amazed by how many people act like it is the end of the world that an artist no longer moves them.

I never said anything about me. I simply pointed out the fact that PRINCE HIMSELF cannot be arsed to release or promote his recent output. It is YOU LOT who get pissed when others do not agree that his recorded output is any good, and especially not when it is pointed out that PRINCE HIMSELF is disagreeing with you by failing to release and promote his recent music.

TheEnglishGent said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Yes, it's obviouslya conspiracy, which also involves the general public (which also does not seems to care one bit about Prince's output of the past decade and a half) and Prince himself, who can't be arsed to promote an album by touring it and playing songs from it. Hell, he thinks his own output is so shitty he can't even be arsed to release it and often just gives it away for free with tickets or newspapers.

But why take into account those facts, when you can simply accuse everyone else of being stuck int he past, an opinion not based on anything except your own prejudices.

Prince knows the general public don't care. That's exactly why he 'gave away' CD's in a newspaper. He got paid more upfront for releasing Planet Earth through the paper than he would ever have got for releasing it in stores in the UK.

None of what you said is relevant. None of what you said answers this question: if Prince's recent output is so great, how come he cannot be arsed to promote it by playing it live?

BartVanHemelem said: How come records that are "just as good or even better" as those he released in the 1980s do not sell? What great conspiracy is stopping all these people from buying his records (other than Prince not being arsed to release them)?

*

You can’t be this obtuse. Can you name and provide proof of five artists whose record sales are or were the same amount thirty years after their first record? The only artists, as far as I know, whose record sales are the same or more thirty years after they started are dead artists, and the people purchasing those records are purchasing old music not new music as in the case of Jimi Hendrix, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, etc. Thus, in the case of Prince and his record sales, the same people purchasing records today are not the same people purchasing records yesterday, or ten years ago, or twenty years ago. The fact that someone would think that Prince would continue to have platinum and even gold selling records thirty years after he began is unrealistic and borderline foolish if not naïve. Thus, his sales have nothing to do with the quality of his work. (Don’t’ forget that Dirty Mind, which most people on this site consider the essential Prince record, didn’t sell platinum until after the mega success of Purple Rain. So was Dirty Mind a shitty record because it didn’t have platinum sales?) I happen to agree with Wynton Marsalis who states that “the music business is the only business in which the better you get at your craft or skill the more difficult it is to be profitable”. Therefore, his sales have nothing to do with the quality of his work, unless you are willing to say that every top selling record is a masterpiece? In that case, should I put the Spice Girls and Milli Vanilli in the same class and league with Prince because they also have top-selling records? What about Lady Gaga, Justin Timberlake, and Two Chains? Are they all the same level of artist as Prince because today’s generation purchases their records? So, again, neither I nor Giovanni777 ever used the word “conspiracy” so stop trying to create a straw man/stick figure argument that you can knock down. It ain’t gon’ work with me playa.

*

BartVanHemelem said: I'm not the one who is angry. I'm just pointing out some facts: that PRINCE HIMSELF obviously does not think his recent out put is any good, considering he can't even be arsed to release them. YOU are the one who is angry about me pointing this out.

*

Playa, trust me; I’m not angry. I’m laughing at yo’ ass for allowing your bitterness to make you a caricature of what you once were. In the past you had some insightful things to say, but lately it’s only bitterness and hate. Besides, I can’t be angry with you because you haven’t pointed anything out or proven anything. This notion of Prince not releasing and promoting his work is flawed, false, and a lie because I have three hours’ worth of television appearances on DVD that prove you wrong. Maybe Prince hasn’t released and promoted records in the manner that you think he should release them, but he has a history of doing everything his own way. Hell, when I was a teenager during the eighties, I wanted Prince to appear personally on Soul Train and Video Soul. My displeasure of him not appearing on Soul Train and Video Soul does not mean that he did not release and promote his work. And even with mainstream programs, from 1985 to 1995, Prince could have appeared on the Grammys, American Music Awards, MTV Awards, and most other popular programs to promote his music every year, but he regularly declined them all. So, Prince doing sparse promotion is nothing new. Secondly, Prince seems to come from that school of thought that he should be paid upfront for his work. While I may think that school of though is outdated and just will not work in this new age, I can’t be angry or assume that he doesn’t think his new music is good just because he doesn’t agree with the new way of releasing and promoting music. Based on your logic, Prince should also be on or have a mix tape circulating in da hood. So, your premise is flawed, if not completely wrong. Again, I don’t necessarily disagree with you that Prince should use iTunes, YouTube, and any other new and conventional manner to get his work to his fans. Hell, I don’t like scavenger hunts for art, but I at least understand and give him the benefit of the doubt that he has a right to release his art in the manner that best works for his personal convictions and issues. And once it becomes too difficult for me to obtain it, then so be it. That’s life, but just because I don’t like the manner in which he releases and promotes his music doesn’t prove that he does not think that his work over the past twelve to twenty years is not of quality.

*

BartVanHemelem said: I never said anything about me. I simply pointed out the fact that PRINCE HIMSELF cannot be arsed to release or promote his recent output. It is YOU LOT who get pissed when others do not agree that his recorded output is any good, and especially not when it is pointed out that PRINCE HIMSELF is disagreeing with you by failing to release and promote his recent music.

*

Again, I have three hours’ worth of live footage on DVD to prove you wrong. Since 2004, Prince has appeared on the major television shows preforming songs from all but one of his album releases, 20Ten, so that seems to disprove your theory. Now, could Prince do more? I’m sure he could, but, returning to my first response of this post, most of the venues to promote music are focused toward an age group that is not interested in Prince, his music, or his era. In fact, I often think it is beneath him to appear on shows like American Idol and The View even though I love Whoopi Goldberg and Sherri Shepherd. Finally, I’ve had the debate about why Prince doesn’t play newer work during his recent tours too many times to rehash, but I’ll just say that Prince has seemingly decided that since his so-called hardcore fans spend every waking moment bitching and moaning about his new output then it makes financial sense to tour with the hits and cater to the casual fan, most of whom don’t even know that he has made a record after 1989. And while I’m tired of the hits and covers, I ain’t mad at him for packing the house. I’m not saying that hardcore fans should say they like something when they don’t, but from a financial standpoint he’d be stupid not to play what the people want to hear. As he said as early as 1990, “Nobody wants to pay a lot of money to hear songs they don’t know.” But, he has released and promoted his new music. He may not have done it to the level that you or I desire, but he’s promoted it on the biggest television venues available, reaching millions of people at one time. Most artists would kill for that type of exposure and promotion. And when one gets to a certain level of success and age, then one has the right to release and promote one’s work how one so desires, especially if one is willing to live with the results. For the past twelve years, I have been able to learn about new Prince music, gain access to it, and enjoy it. What the hell else do you want, for him to perform his new songs on your front lawn? Playa, please.

BartVanHemelen said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Prince knows the general public don't care. That's exactly why he 'gave away' CD's in a newspaper. He got paid more upfront for releasing Planet Earth through the paper than he would ever have got for releasing it in stores in the UK.

None of what you said is relevant. None of what you said answers this question: if Prince's recent output is so great, how come he cannot be arsed to promote it by playing it live?

Because that only seems to matter to you.

The score so far:

1725ttop: 90 points

Bart: zilch, zero, nada, goose-egg, 0

once u reach super stardom ... if ur music doesn't sell its because your music sucks

prince could drop a great album anytime and not only would it sell .. but every popular musician on the planet would be talking it up promoting it for prince .. from questlove to chris rock to p diddy to oprah .. everyone would hype it

lF IT DIDN'T SUCK

TrevorAyer said:

once u reach super stardom ... if ur music doesn't sell its because your music sucks

prince could drop a great album anytime and not only would it sell .. but every popular musician on the planet would be talking it up promoting it for prince .. from questlove to chris rock to p diddy to oprah .. everyone would hype it

lF IT DIDN'T SUCK

That is the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life and if you as a musician believe that or follow that thinking then you will NEVER make it in this business and you frankly dont have a clue.

You are totally ignoring factors such as changes in the industry, who drives sales now, marketing channels, etc.

If that is the case then you must shit all the great bands/musicians from the 70's and 80's who are no longer selling like they used to (EWF, Hall and Oats, Tina Marie latest stuff, etc). Now some songs do suck but some is actually pretty good.

If you think his music sucks then fine/cool, but to say if a cd from a "superstar" doesn't "sell" means the music suck is silly.

Prince just has his um..."unique" (haha) way of doing things when it comes to his new music.

[Edited 11/4/12 18:31pm]

TrevorAyer said:

once u reach super stardom ... if ur music doesn't sell its because your music sucks

prince could drop a great album anytime and not only would it sell .. but every popular musician on the planet would be talking it up promoting it for prince .. from questlove to chris rock to p diddy to oprah .. everyone would hype it

lF IT DIDN'T SUCK

So every superstar, from Stevie Wonder, to James Brown, to Jimi Hendrix, to Elvis Presley, to Parliament/Funkadelic didn't have decreasing sales twenty years after their first record? Do you see how foolish you sound? Are you just going to ignore reality and truth because you are so blinded by your disappointment and disillusion with Prince. You tend to be actually spookier than Bart. I'm sorry to inform you, but very little of Stevie Wonder's released music sucks, and I can say the same about Jimi Hendrix or Parliament/Funkadelic, but times change, and the general public's tastes change. That's life. But, again, if you can provide five artists whose record sales where the same thirty years after their first record, then I'll concede. But, if you can't provide this evidence, then your point sucks. I mean it really sucks. It sucks a big, long, hard, thick fallacy on which you should be choking and gagging, unless you like sucking, and based on most of what you spew on this cite, you seem to like sucking ‘cause your points suck.

wonder505 said:

TrevorAyer said:

once u reach super stardom ... if ur music doesn't sell its because your music sucks

prince could drop a great album anytime and not only would it sell .. but every popular musician on the planet would be talking it up promoting it for prince .. from questlove to chris rock to p diddy to oprah .. everyone would hype it

lF IT DIDN'T SUCK

That is the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life and if you as a musician believe that or follow that thinking then you will NEVER make it in this business and you frankly dont have a clue.

You are totally ignoring factors such as changes in the industry, who drives sales now, marketing channels, etc.

If that is the case then you must shit all the great bands/musicians from the 70's and 80's who are no longer selling like they used to (EWF, Hall and Oats, Tina Marie latest stuff, etc). Now some songs do suck but some is actually pretty good.

If you think his music sucks then fine/cool, but to say if a cd from a "superstar" doesn't "sell" means the music suck is silly.

Prince just has his um..."unique" (haha) way of doing things when it comes to his new music.

[Edited 11/4/12 18:31pm]

Amen!

hendrix is great .. funkadelic have some great stuff and some crapola .. same with stevie .. take dark side of the moon .. great record and it keeps on selling .. division bell .. suckola .. when hendrix estates releases a new jam .. such as the winterland disc i have been digging .. guess what .. hendrix fans are happy .. out takes packaged as outtakes .. produced an amount that people will buy and be happy with it .. beatles number ones and beatles anthology both deserved respect .. lennon clapton harrison all did respectable late efforts .. that sold well .. and other redundant drivel that didn't .. of course dylans time out of mind was respectable and sold well after years of not so much .. i dont know much mj but sounds like invincible sunk pretty quick and with good reason .. since even the fans dont seem to think that record is great .. when prince finally puts out something good it will sell and be respected

TrevorAyer said:

hendrix is great .. funkadelic have some great stuff and some crapola .. same with stevie .. take dark side of the moon .. great record and it keeps on selling .. division bell .. suckola .. when hendrix estates releases a new jam .. such as the winterland disc i have been digging .. guess what .. hendrix fans are happy .. out takes packaged as outtakes .. produced an amount that people will buy and be happy with it .. beatles number ones and beatles anthology both deserved respect .. lennon clapton harrison all did respectable late efforts .. that sold well .. and other redundant drivel that didn't .. of course dylans time out of mind was respectable and sold well after years of not so much .. i dont know much mj but sounds like invincible sunk pretty quick and with good reason .. since even the fans dont seem to think that record is great .. when prince finally puts out something good it will sell and be respected

Dude, you're talking in circles. All the Hendrix and Beatles stuff is old music, so you are making our point for us. 3121 debuted at number 1 twenty-eight years after his first record. And this is significant because that success refuted the naysayers who complained that Musicology was only in the charts because of being combined with ticket sales. However, for Musicology Prince was nominated for five Grammy’s and won two. How’s that for being irrelevant? And on the strength of Musicology, Rolling Stone’s readers voted Prince Best Male Performer. Does that make him relevant enough for you? Lotusflow3r/MPLS, just three years ago, peaked at number 2 on the US Billboard 200 and number 1 on US R&B Albums and US Top Independent Albums thirty-one years after his first record. So twenty-five to thirty-one years after his first record release, Prince was still at the top of the charts, winning awards, and having monster tours. While Clapton may have done this, Lennon and Harrison certainly did not. And if I remember correctly, Clapton returned to the charts with acoustic performances of old music so, again, you're proving my point. Beatles' and Hendrix's fans are happy with old music not with new music. So you still have not presented five artists who have the same amount of sales with new music thirty-one years after the release of their first record.

*

Now that your first point has been crushed, don't try to turn this into an issue about new packaging of old music 'cause that just proves my point. Additionally, I don't give a damn about repackaging of old Prince music. I could give a damn about new digitized mixes and box sets of old music. I was there when it was happening. I have it all. I don't need someone to sell me what I already have. (That may be cool for younger fans, but it doesn’t prove your point.) A new fancy package doesn't make it new music or a new experience. The bottom line is that your flawed argument has been exposed for what it is. Prince has released good to great music over the past twelve to twenty years and record sales are no indication of a work's quality. Because if record sales are an indicator of quality, then Musicology, 3121, and Lotusflow3r/MPLS seem to be equal to a few of Prince's eighties albums based on chart position and awards alone. Damn, did I just slam dunk in yo' face?!? But, you keep talking in circles to convince yourself. Have fun chasing your own tail. I'm just gon' laugh at yo' ass from a distance.

score update

TrevorAyer: -10, negatvie ten

at least TrevorAyer is right in 1 thing: the latest Prince music sucks.

imo, it's not worthy for Prince to release "R&R LA",

that pseudo "music" sucks, big time.

The song don't have a melody, no energy, no nerve like his music did have looong time ago.

1725topp said:

TrevorAyer said:

hendrix is great .. funkadelic have some great stuff and some crapola .. same with stevie .. take dark side of the moon .. great record and it keeps on selling .. division bell .. suckola .. when hendrix estates releases a new jam .. such as the winterland disc i have been digging .. guess what .. hendrix fans are happy .. out takes packaged as outtakes .. produced an amount that people will buy and be happy with it .. beatles number ones and beatles anthology both deserved respect .. lennon clapton harrison all did respectable late efforts .. that sold well .. and other redundant drivel that didn't .. of course dylans time out of mind was respectable and sold well after years of not so much .. i dont know much mj but sounds like invincible sunk pretty quick and with good reason .. since even the fans dont seem to think that record is great .. when prince finally puts out something good it will sell and be respected

Dude, you're talking in circles. All the Hendrix and Beatles stuff is old music, so you are making our point for us. 3121 debuted at number 1 twenty-eight years after his first record. And this is significant because that success refuted the naysayers who complained that Musicology was only in the charts because of being combined with ticket sales. However, for Musicology Prince was nominated for five Grammy’s and won two. How’s that for being irrelevant? And on the strength of Musicology, Rolling Stone’s readers voted Prince Best Male Performer. Does that make him relevant enough for you? Lotusflow3r/MPLS, just three years ago, peaked at number 2 on the US Billboard 200 and number 1 on US R&B Albums and US Top Independent Albums thirty-one years after his first record. So twenty-five to thirty-one years after his first record release, Prince was still at the top of the charts, winning awards, and having monster tours. While Clapton may have done this, Lennon and Harrison certainly did not. And if I remember correctly, Clapton returned to the charts with acoustic performances of old music so, again, you're proving my point. Beatles' and Hendrix's fans are happy with old music not with new music. So you still have not presented five artists who have the same amount of sales with new music thirty-one years after the release of their first record.

*

Now that your first point has been crushed, don't try to turn this into an issue about new packaging of old music 'cause that just proves my point. Additionally, I don't give a damn about repackaging of old Prince music. I could give a damn about new digitized mixes and box sets of old music. I was there when it was happening. I have it all. I don't need someone to sell me what I already have. (That may be cool for younger fans, but it doesn’t prove your point.) A new fancy package doesn't make it new music or a new experience. The bottom line is that your flawed argument has been exposed for what it is. Prince has released good to great music over the past twelve to twenty years and record sales are no indication of a work's quality. Because if record sales are an indicator of quality, then Musicology, 3121, and Lotusflow3r/MPLS seem to be equal to a few of Prince's eighties albums based on chart position and awards alone. Damn, did I just slam dunk in yo' face?!? But, you keep talking in circles to convince yourself. Have fun chasing your own tail. I'm just gon' laugh at yo' ass from a distance.

O M GEE!!!!!!!!!! This has 2 b the best comeback in ORG history!!! Bravo

^

Prince used to sell in millions...

makes me curious, cause those albums did not sell a lot:

now I wanna see the sales statistics for the 3 Prince releases:

Musicology,

3121,

Lotus/ Mpls

Let me guess 200,000 to maximum sales of 500,000 copies?

and that ain't much..

I found this... but without any source:

Year - Album - Worldwide estimated sales = USA estimated sales + International (outside US) estimated sales

The 70's + 80's

1978 For You 930,000 = 550,000 + 380,000
1979 Prince 1,950,000 = 1,500,000 + 450,000
1980 Dirty Mind 2,015,000 = 1,085,000 + 930,000
1981 Controversy 2,650,000 = 1,550,000 + 1,100,000
1982 1999 6,075,000 = 4,320,000 + 1,755,000
1984 Purple Rain 19,880,000 = 14,480,000 + 5,400,000
1985 Around The World In A Day 4,585,000 = 2,845,000 + 1,740,000
1986 Parade 4,155,000 = 2,105,000 + 2,050,000
1987 Sign Of The Times 4,025,000 = 1,840,000 + 2,185,000
1988 Lovesexy 2,825,000 = 960,000 + 1,865,000
1989 Batman (Soundtrack) 4,790,000 = 2,500,000 + 2,290,000

Total 70's + 80's estimated worldwide all-time sales:
53,880,000 = 33,735,000 + 20,145,000

The 90's

1990 Graffiti Bridge 2,305,000 = 980,000 + 1,325,000
1991 Diamonds & Pearls 6,450,000 = 2,780,000 + 3,670,000
1992 Symbol 2,700,000 = 1,100,000 + 1,600,000
1993 The Hits/The B-Sides 1,000,000 = 650,000 + 350,000
1993 The Hits 1 2,750,000 = 2,000,000 + 750,000
1993 The Hits 2 2,250,000 = 1,750,000 + 500,000
1994 Come 1,000,000 = 500,000 + 500,000
1994 The Black Album 575,000 = 275,000 + 300,000
1995 The Gold Experience 900,000 = 550,000 + 350,000
1996 Chaos & Disorder 350,000 = 150,000 + 200,000
1996 Emancipation 1,200,000 = 700,000 + 500,000
1998 Crystal Ball 275,000 = 125,000 + 150,000
1998 Newpower Soul 425,000 = 225,000 + 200,000
1999 The Vault 250,000 = 125,000 + 125,000
1999 Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic 750,000 = 500,000 + 250,000

Total 90's estimated worldwide all-time sales:
23,180,000 = 12,410,000 + 10,770,000

The 00's

2001 The Very Best Of Prince 2,000,000 = 1,300,000 + 700,000
2001 The Rainbow Children 300,000 = 175,000 + 125,000
2004 Musicology 1,500,000 = 1,000,000 + 500,000 (concert sales NOT included)

(add 3121, Planet Earth, Lotus, MPLSound, let's say 1,5 / 2 millions)

Total 00's estimated worldwide all-time sales:
3,800,000 = 2,475,000 + 1,325,000

Total (Estimated) Career All-Time Album Sales Worldwide:

80,860,000 = 48,620,000 + 32,240,000

thedance said:

at least TrevorAyer is right in 1 thing: the latest Prince music sucks.

imo, it's not worthy for Prince to release "R&R LA",

that pseudo "music" sucks, big time.

The song don't have a melody, no energy, no nerve like his music did have looong time ago.

I guess if you say a song doesn't have a melody and just ignore it then that makes it not have one even though I clearly hear the melody from the opening note. And I'm sure that the same applies to the energy of the song though I hear the passion and urgency articulated with the vocal delivery and lyrics of the chorus. As far as nerve, I guess it doesn't take much nerve to continue to amalgamate sounds like no one else does. But, I can only wonder if having no nerve means that he has matured and has no need to use profanity and discuss fucking all the time. Of course I don't know what you mean by nerve and didn't know it took nerve to create well-crafted music.

*

However, since I so thoroughly disagree with your assessment of "RocknRoll Love Affair" I would love for you to list ten non-Prince songs that have been released over the past ten years that have melody, energy, and nerve. I would just like an example of what it is that I'm missing from loving Prince's output over the past twelve to twenty years. Since I clearly think that "RocknRoll Love Affair" has melody and energy, could you give me an example of songs that have been released over the past ten years that do have melody and energy? Since you and I are clearly looking at the same song that I think is wonderful and you think sucks, I would like to know what songs released over the past ten years don't suck. I’m just trying to get some insight or understanding for your aesthetic standards for songs that don’t suck. You may actually list some songs that I like so it's not about me saying your aesthetics are wrong because they are your aesthetics. I'm just interested in knowing what songs don't suck since you think so much of Prince's latest output does suck.

^ You are good in defending Prince, his latest work..

Unfortunately you can't convince me:

Most of his music post The Gold Experience is rather weak.

True there's some really great songs here and there,

but those albums post Warner 1996 to 2010, most of them are at best very "average".

thedance said:

^

Prince used to sell in millions...

makes me curious, cause those albums did not sell a lot:

now I wanna see the sales statistics for the 3 Prince releases:

Musicology,

3121,

Lotus/ Mpls

Let me guess 200,000 to maximum sales of 500,000 copies?

and that ain't much..

Your last two posts about sales don't mean anything because my point has continued to be that it is only natural for any artist not to sell as well as one did during their early apex, especially thirty years after one's first record. It was Bart and TrevorAyer who were using record sales as a way to judge the quality of one's music, not me. I only used Musicology, 3121, and Lotusflow3r/MPLS to show that Prince was still producing music that won Awards, was critically acclaimed, and topped the charts. Don't try to make their argument my argument. It won't work playa. Now, I repeat, if you can't find five other artists who sold millions at the beginning of their career and thirty years later, you, along with Bart and TrevorAyer, haven't proven that record sales indicate that Prince has stopped making quality music. So, are you willing to say that Lady Gaga, Justin Timberlake, and Two Chains are in the same league with Prince because of sales? Come on man, stop trying to play games with my words. My position of Prince's output over the past twelve to twenty years was not based on sales. I was just using the success of those three records to disprove their argument. (Of course you do know that the industry as a whole no longer generates the same level of sales as during the eighties so even that would be a flawed argument.) But, you can't deny, using Bart and TrevorAyer's argument, that Musicology, 3121, and Lotusflow3r/MPLS were chart topers, with one gaining Grammys. As I said in all my posts, I don't care about sales; I was just disproving their argument, which I did, and until you or them can produce five artists whose sales are the same thirty years after their first record, then you can’t prove that record sales indicate Prince’s quality has decreased. And, finally, even your own research is flawed because Dirty Mind didn’t sell two million copies in 1980 and was only a platinum selling album after the success of Purple Rain. So, based on the logic of you three, Dirty Mind is a shitty album. Next time you engage in research, learn how to read and present the numbers properly unless you want to keep proving my point with your research.

thedance said:

^ You are good in defending Prince, his latest work..

Unfortunately you can't convince me:

Most of his music post The Gold Experience is rather weak.

True there's some really great songs here and there,

but those albums post Warner 1996 to 2010, most of them are at best very "average".

We'll have to agree to disagree. I love his work now as much as I loved it during the eighties. I'm not saying your are wrong for not liking his latest output, but I love "RocknRoll Love Affair" and can't wait for his next album because I also loved Musicology and Lotusflow3r/MPLS and liked 20Ten a great deal.

3121 sucks !!! slam dunk!!! double fantasy .. john lennon grammy .. a thousand times better than 3121 even with yoko all over it .. slam dunk!! .. don't forget the grateful dead .. in the dark .. thousand times better than 3121 .. slam dunk!!! .. 12752topp u are the king of acting like u know what you are talking about when u don't ... good music will be recognized by a performers fans as good music .. 95 percent of prince fans think his post 90's work leaves a LOT to be desired .. (do u even read the org?) this is proven by how many fans have dropped off and how many hardcore fans can't stand his new music, even tho they buy it ... it's called having even a minor amount of good taste .. you know the average music fan would get turned off by most of prince modern music .. but when a prince obsessive can't dig it either u know some serious purple poo is going on .. that is some serious fan love when u make stupid excuses like .. he's old so its ok if his music is bad ... even prince knows his music is bad .. but hey maybe u are right .. maybe prince rehash of the golden girls theme, that desparately tries to be a tom petty song (tom petty still going strong by the way) with take me with you blatent stabs (might as well be sampled) is a true work of genius and will finally hit number one in ... yemen .. prince got it wrong .. he is more than willing but is simply not able anymore .. i am very happy for u and rdhull .. that u have this new prince diarhea as a soundtrack to your love for each others horrible taste in music .. carry on

TrevorAyer said:

3121 sucks !!! slam dunk!!! double fantasy .. john lennon grammy .. a thousand times better than 3121 even with yoko all over it .. slam dunk!! .. don't forget the grateful dead .. in the dark .. thousand times better than 3121 .. slam dunk!!! .. 12752topp u are the king of acting like u know what you are talking about when u don't ... good music will be recognized by a performers fans as good music .. 95 percent of prince fans think his post 90's work leaves a LOT to be desired .. (do u even read the org?) this is proven by how many fans have dropped off and how many hardcore fans can't stand his new music, even tho they buy it ... it's called having even a minor amount of good taste .. you know the average music fan would get turned off by most of prince modern music .. but when a prince obsessive can't dig it either u know some serious purple poo is going on .. that is some serious fan love when u make stupid excuses like .. he's old so its ok if his music is bad ... even prince knows his music is bad .. but hey maybe u are right .. maybe prince rehash of the golden girls theme, that desparately tries to be a tom petty song (tom petty still going strong by the way) with take me with you blatent stabs (might as well be sampled) is a true work of genius and will finally hit number one in ... yemen .. prince got it wrong .. he is more than willing but is simply not able anymore .. i am very happy for u and rdhull .. that u have this new prince diarhea as a soundtrack to your love for each others horrible taste in music .. carry on

Dude, by reaching at straws you are making yourself look bad. I’m amazed that you just ignore the facts. John Lennon’s Double Fantasy was considered a flop by most of his fans and critics and did not start selling well until after he was shot. Look at the numbers. The first three weeks of its release it barely sold units. After his murder, it sold tons. Coincidence?—I think not. Thus, based on the original reception by his fans and music critics, I can only surmise that his Grammy for 1981 Album of the Year was more of a lifetime achievement award. So, I just blocked your attempted slam dunk in yo’ face. And as we say in da hood, “Get that weak ass shit outta here!”

As for the Grateful Dead’s In the Dark, I’ll give you that one, but one is an anomaly not a trend and certainly not enough to prove that decreasing sales indicate that Prince’s latest work has lessened in quality. So, your point about the Grateful Dead’s In the Dark is the equivalent of someone making two points at the end of a game when his team is losing by twenty points. And what’s more pathetic is you celebrating your two points with a victory dance even though you are getting blown out. We have a name for playas like you; it’s called loser because you are happy to get some meaningless stats even though that ass got spanked by twenty. Have your victory dance over your two points, but you still have four more artists needed to prove that artists regularly sell the same amount of units thirty years after their first record. You mentioned Tom Petty, but without numbers and awards thirty years after his first record he doesn’t prove anything for you.

Finally, your point that so many people no longer liking Prince’s work proving that it is of low quality is flawed. I purchased Dirty Mind in 1980. Only a handful of people on this cite can say that. That fact that only a handful of people on the planet can say that does not make the record of low quality, end of discussion. But, again, keep chasing your tail.