Graycap23 said:

In a word...............Prince.

"I'll make you a star" - it's the oldest line in the book.

FunkySideEffects said:

Ours? Prince's? Or their own? I listened to Andy's album on the weekend (Unfresh - it's free on Spotify). As her first album I gotta say its pretty good and u can definitely tell she wrote the lyrics herself as they're very raw & guileless. So when Prince mentioned at the HOB after show that she presented him with her song People Pleaser he said he liked it but it needs a bit of funk [enter full NPG band]. So this got me thinking: We can't blame Andy for her choice of songs or "lack of talent" - if anything we should point the finger at Prince. Maybe her original version of PPL Pleaser was actually quite good & we may of liked it. The lyrics are nice, fresh & sometimes i can totally relate to them. Too bad now, we'll never hear it cos Prince pissed his purple funk all over it & as some may say: he ruined it. It doesn't suit. She probably hates it too but as a dutiful protege she just smiles & plays along. Andy might have done alright & made it on her own but instead got sucked in by the illustrious promises of a rockstar (i mean who wouldn't??) U could say the same thing happened 4 the others. So who should we really be directing our anger at.

Yes, but you forget a vital part of that story. Remember Prince said that Andy told him, "Prince do whatever you want to do." (As he hopped from one leg to the other, swung his crystal-encrusted cane and made the funk face in grand gesture) So quite frankly, Andy shoulders the lion's share of blame because Prince is doing exactly what she told him to--with the music, her career and her style (the girl looks old with all of those heavy clothes and makeup, not the young, 20-something she is). Of course, she didn't know what she was saying. They never do. All she saw was her name in spotlights.

Now as for Prince, his only fault is that he's a terrible mentor. But this is nothing new. His problem is that he tends to live through his proteges instead of honing in on the best of who they are. He just makes another Prince album with the protege's name on it. That's not developing; it's imposing.

OldFriends4Sale said:

toots said:

I never mentioned anything about the "stardom" ur talking about... and to face the facts Vanitys career never got far any way .. a few appearances here and there...o and maybe a album onthe side but didnt really lift off as what ur trying to tell me...u may look into the band OUTSIDE of Prince but i see the whole picture either way they was tied to Prince .. and if u wanna say Apples "rode" the PR train go for it but Vanity did as well as a matter of fact they ALL did(the ones tied to the movie) .. or did u forget she was originally was cast before Apples( for Apples role) in PR?And TBH her singing SUCKED in The Last Dragon...sounded like her straining to hit the notes but Apples did much better(since he added Lisa to balance it all out on the album and yes even i can hear Lisa's voice in the song TMWY) So don t correct me on my opinion if the topic was for specific proteges it should of stated it...i guess u missed the part of me stating in my original statement... its wasnt P fault..

Wendy & Lisa isnt into the kind of on screen "stardom" ur talking or thinking.. they write scores for film/tv shows and have won awards as well as gone and made a few albums of their own WITHOUT P help and without the former members help( this includes the scores they write for tv shows) Yes maybe the first few albums former members helped on and that isnt including their siblings.. the more recent albums are all them

combative ... forgot 2 put on my battle armour

It's seriously clear the thread is about Prince Protege Projects, not what any of them do after they leave his camp, because

1.) they would no longer be considered his proteges

2.) he could not be responsible for their careers

3.) Wendy & Lisa nor any of his band members would be considered proteges

4.) Proteges Acts = the Time, Vanity 6, Sheila E, the Family, Mazarati, Madhouse (they are called FORMER proteges after they leave the camp)

5.) Gayle Chapman, Andre Cymone, Dr Fink, Brown Mark, etc are Bandmembers not proteges (they are called FORMER bandmates/members after they leave the band)

6.) U don't have to defend Wendy & Lisa 2 me, I have much love & respect for them and what they individual brought to Purple Music, and respect for their careers after

pro·té·gé (prt-zh, prt-zh)

n.

One whose welfare, training, or career is promoted by an influential person.

Prince band promoted him, Prince promoted his proteges

Not combative ty stating a fact and bringing to your attention the thread topic....and my original statement was this in reply #11 and i quote this:

Your all are forgetting Wendy n Lisa... they are the ones who pushed themselves to do what they r doing today and their fans....it isnt princes fault for the other proteges failures with them not having a good career....its a mixture....if they dont have the drive to move forward without his help..then it noone fault but their own

IstenSzek said:

ROLLING STONE (1985)

BY NEAL KARLEN

What about the other bands? Apollonia, Vanity, Mazarati, the Family? What are you trying to express through them?

A lot has to do with them. They come to me with an idea, and I try to bring that forth. I don't give them anything. I don't say, "Okay, you're going to do this, and you're going to do that." I mean, it was Morris' idea to be as sick as he was. That was his personality. We both like Don King and get a lot of stuff off him.

Why?

Because he's outrageous and thinks everything's so exciting --even when it isn't.

People think you control those bands, that it's similar to Rick James, relationship with the Mary Jane Girls. A lot of people think he's turning all the knobs.

I don't know their situation. But you look at Sheila E. performing, and you can just tell she's holding her own. The same goes for the Family. You and I were playing Ping-Pong, and they were doing just fine.

U took things way out of context, very combative

Luv4U and I are cool, so for me to even deal with her the way u say I did, doesn't make sense, again the gentleman responded as he knew I was just asking questions because as I said I was not familiar with Tamar

Thanks 4 showing yourself though: Lisa is a band member, not a protege, Lisa with Prince helped create the music for the proteges, not the other way around

I don't know, maybe u can ask Jamie Starr

toots said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Not combative ty stating a fact and bringing to your attention the thread topic....and my original statement was this in reply #11 and i quote this:

Your all are forgetting Wendy n Lisa... they are the ones who pushed themselves to do what they r doing today and their fans....it isnt princes fault for the other proteges failures with them not having a good career....its a mixture....if they dont have the drive to move forward without his help..then it noone fault but their own

The thread title is clear WHO's fault is it the proteges or P fault? my reply was that stated above in which u went and blew it out of context when others are saying what they felt in their mind as well and reason to get hostile and define the term protege to me Lisa was trained in HIS style of music as well as well as the former members of his bands rather as of late or former.You was the one who brought Vanity and Apples up not me ... sorry but i stand by my original statement.

[Edited 10/3/12 23:32pm]

[Edited 10/4/12 5:30am]

Prince's Hot Rock

The secret life of America's sexiest one-man band

By DEBBIE MILLER

Rolling Stone 394

What Time Is It?

Joni Mitchell songs blare out of the PA between the sets of Prince's road show, at his request. Vanity 6, three women in lacy camisoles, open the concert. "I love lingerie," explains Vanity, the leader of the group. "I used to sneak into my mother's closet and try to wear her lingerie to school." She picked her nickname because "a girl's best friend is her pride," she says. Like her cohorts, Brenda and Susan, Vanity gave a demo tape of her songs to Prince a year ago. "He said there were a couple other girls whose minds seemed to run alongside mine," she says. Prince then arranged to bring Vanity, a twenty-two-year-old former model from Toronto, to Minneapolis to meet the other two, flying Brenda in from Boston. Soon, the three were writing songs like "Drive Me Wild" and "Nasty Girls" in which Vanity coos, "I can't control it/I need seven inches or more."

It all seems a figment of Prince's imagination, a living fantasy. "Prince and I happen to think alike," says Vanity.

On their record, Vanity 6 is backed by the Time; onstage, they're followed by the Time (who, in turn, are followed by Prince). At one point in the Time's set, frontman Morris Day, a terrific dancer, calls out his valet. The valet -- who often follows Morris' own dance steps like a shadow -- brings out a table, sets it with a white cloth and a vase of flowers, and uncorks a bottle of champagne. Morris, meanwhile, in his trademark two-tone Stacy Adams shoes, waltzes with a girl chosen from the audience. This sort of classy deportment was the starting point for the Time, as organized by Morris. "The image was cool. That's the key word," he says. "That's what we built the Time around. Cool is an attitude, a self-respect thing."

Morris didn't exactly put the group together -- all but guitarist Jesse Johnson had been playing around Minneapolis in a band called Flyte Tyme (known familiarly as the Tyme even then). But it is Morris who has led the band to the point where it now often steals the show from the scantily clad Vanity 6 and even from Prince. Morris, the former drummer, has stayed closer to traditional R&B but, by injecting his good humor, has developed one of the best live acts in the country.

Prince, says Morris, helped the band get its Warner Bros. contract in 1981. Asked why the Time shares the same teenage-sex themes as Prince, Morris says, "Sex is present in everybody's life. I don't think anybody owns the rights to that." Asked if Prince influenced their sound, Morris says what Vanity says: "We believe in the same things."

Asked about Jamie Starr, an icy tension descends. Although Morris Day and one Jamie Starr are credited as producers on the Time's first record, there is reason to believe that the record was, in fact, produced by Prince. One source very close to the situation says that not only is all the material written by Prince (mysteriously, there are no writing credits on the LP), but that the instruments are played by Prince and the voice is Prince's doubled with Morris Day's. This insider claims that the record -- a more commercial, more straightforward R&B album -- is a project Prince offered Warner Bros. because his own bolder stuff wasn't selling impressively. So, goes this theory, Prince set the Time in motion -- and created a pseudonym, Jamie Starr, for his new project.

Prince did tell a reporter in an early interview with the Minnesota Daily, when he was just seventeen, that someday he would make jazz recordings under an alias. (In that same interview, Prince claimed not to be averse to choreography, but he drew the line at spins -- "I get nauseated.") So the idea of working with a fictitious name had occurred to him at the beginning of his career.

And although Morris says that he and the band wrote the songs on their first LP, The Time, a call to the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP), with whom the songs are registered, casts some doubt. The composer of the hits "Get It Up" and "Cool" is Prince Rogers Nelson (with Dez Dickerson on "Cool"), says an ASCAP spokesman. Prince's manager says that the fact that Prince's name is registered for the Time's record is "a filing mistake."

"Let me clear up a few rumors while I have the chance," Prince told the Los Angeles Times. "One, my real name is Prince. Two, I'm not gay. And three, I'm not Jamie Starr."

"Jamie Starr is an engineer, the coproducer of our record. Of course he's real," says Morris Day, whose band now outplays whoever it was on the first Time record.

But if there is a Jamie Starr, why can't he be reached? Manager Steve Fargnoli says it's because he's "in and out of Minneapolis," because he's "a reclusive maniac" like Prince) and because "it could be months before I see him." Can he be reached by phone? "No." Well, you wouldn't need to call him over to Prince's home studio if he's already there. "Prince is Jamie Starr" says former Warner Bros. artist and fellow Minneapolitan Sue Ann (Carwell), who has been a friend of Prince's for years -- ever since he wrote and produced her first demo tape. Others who are close to Prince also say that he is Jamie Starr, but they refuse to be quoted in print. But, says one, "everybody knows who's the main man behind everything."

peri1025 said:

yea i noticed that too...in one of the pics the caption is "i've fallen and i can't get up...fallen in love that is" I know it's just to keep tongues wagging but I'm starting to think it's not as big of a priority for her because she's just enjoying being in that state right now...

IstenSzek said:

so does anyone know if this album is still being released?

she's posting pictures to her fb account again. yet not a word on her album

in response to the pictures people keep asking "when is the album out?"

she doesn't answer, yet she does post more pictures

I hope it does happen (I'm always hopeful and new Prince project/album works)

How is Superconductor going to be released?

She really needs to get her own band, and just like the Proteges of the 1980's she needs to be linked to Prince visually, she needs to open for him, cool to do a few songs with him, she needs to put on a few ruffled shirts(signature Prince look)

I think this is one that he has a lot on, and it hasn't been like that for a while

OldFriends4Sale said:

U took things way out of context, very combative

Luv4U and I are cool, so for me to even deal with her the way u say I did, doesn't make sense, again the gentleman responded as he knew I was just asking questions because as I said I was not familiar with Tamar

Thanks 4 showing yourself though: Lisa is a band member, not a protege, Lisa with Prince helped create the music for the proteges, not the other way around

I don't know, maybe u can ask Jamie Starr

toots said:

[Edited 10/4/12 5:30am]

very combative excuse me but i see u baiting and hijacking a thread and a possible flaming which the topic clearly states at top When a protege fails WHOS fault is it? Not what u state:

reply # 28 "It's seriously clear the thread is about Prince Protege Projects, not what any of them do after they leave his camp, because"

showing myself for what??? the one showing urself is U. Im sticking to the topic shown above and gave my opinon freely of what the original poster asked u want a honest answer ill give it but i sure the hell wont lie about my opinion and that is what the OP wanted OPINIONS. Needless to say when i wanted to have a word with u u block me already so tha t orgnote is out of th e question

[Edited 10/4/12 8:17am]

LOL @ toots, ok toots

[Edited 10/4/12 11:07am]

Denice's insatiable desire for fame led her to the Purple One in 1982.

She had been modelling in Canada in 1977 and then travelled to New York, before meeting up with the sex-charged star at an Oscars Party in Los Angeles.

He was besotted by her exotic beauty: "We began dating and soon I started travelling with him on tour. I moved to Minneapolis to live with him and he told me he was going to make me a star," says Denice.

Prince re-named her Vanity, created her group Vanity 6 and soon began showcasing her singing talents as a raunchy opening act for his band.

Lurid accounts of their lifestyle guaranteed she was soon plastered over magazines, including a nude shoot for the magazine Playboy.

"He came up with the lingerie and promiscuous image. I went along with it because I loved him," she says.

Prince

What about the other bands? ... Vanity, ...? What are you trying to express through them?

A lot has to do with them. They come to me with an idea, and I try to bring that forth. I don't give them anything. I don't say, "Okay, you're going to do this, and you're going to do that."

Vanity

"He came up with the lingerie and promiscuous image. I went along with it because I loved him," she says.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince

What about the other bands? ... Vanity, ...? What are you trying to express through them?

A lot has to do with them. They come to me with an idea, and I try to bring that forth. I don't give them anything. I don't say, "Okay, you're going to do this, and you're going to do that."

Vanity

"He came up with the lingerie and promiscuous image. I went along with it because I loved him," she says.

OldFriends4Sale said:

LOL @ toots, ok toots

[Edited 10/4/12 11:07am]

this shows ur true mod skills and UNprofessionalism right there when u downgrade a poster

And i have u blocked(long ago) yet u bypassed it anyway to send a orgnote to insult my mentality???

[Edited 10/4/12 19:16pm]

IstenSzek said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince

What about the other bands? ... Vanity, ...? What are you trying to express through them?

A lot has to do with them. They come to me with an idea, and I try to bring that forth. I don't give them anything. I don't say, "Okay, you're going to do this, and you're going to do that."

Vanity

"He came up with the lingerie and promiscuous image. I went along with it because I loved him," she says.

Prince the Puppet Master

I dont know why even in 1985 that Prince tried to keep up the Jamie Starr Charade, it was cool but overall we knew that the proteges were Princes vision.

Back then I didnt know the full effect, glad I didnt, but by the time Madhouse came out it was clear it was Prince mostly

Actually if he openly acknowledged his presence more the bands might have been more recognized

peri1025 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince

What about the other bands? ... Vanity, ...? What are you trying to express through them?

A lot has to do with them. They come to me with an idea, and I try to bring that forth. I don't give them anything. I don't say, "Okay, you're going to do this, and you're going to do that."

Vanity

"He came up with the lingerie and promiscuous image. I went along with it because I loved him," she says.

alot of contradictions,huh?

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince

What about the other bands? ... Vanity, ...? What are you trying to express through them?

A lot has to do with them. They come to me with an idea, and I try to bring that forth. I don't give them anything. I don't say, "Okay, you're going to do this, and you're going to do that."

Vanity

"He came up with the lingerie and promiscuous image. I went along with it because I loved him," she says.

alot of contradictions,huh?

just tell the truth, cause if it doesn't make sense it's probably not true

PRINCE TALKS

BY NEAL KARLEN 1990

The most often-told tale involves Prince firing the then-unknown Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis from the Time in 1982. Jam and Lewis, all parties now agree, left a Time tour on a day off to produce their first record for the SOS Band. A freak snowstorm in Atlanta grounded them for an extra day, and the two missed a gig. When Jam and Lewis returned, they were summarily fired. Jobless, the two missed Purple Rain, so they set up as producers and went scrounging for clients. In the years since, they've produced everyone from Janet Jackson to Herb Alpert, becoming the other superpower on the Minneapolis music scene.

"I'm playing the bad guy," says Prince, "but I didn't fire Jimmy and Terry. Morris asked me what I would do in his situation. Remember, it was his band."

The Time, Prince says, is proof of the good that can come from a group dissolving and eventually coming back together. "They broke up because they'd run out of ideas," he says. "They went off and did their own thing, and now they're terrifying."

[Edited 10/5/12 6:03am]

Ugh okay.

Prince, because 1) He Knooooows they lack talent. 2) No matter how you pray the cake to rise, if you forgot the baking powder, kiss that s*** goodbye! To me, most of them are pretty decorated muffins, looks great on the outside but once you take a bite, you put it down and slowly walk away. 3) I really don't think their well promoted.

Protege, because 1) they knoooooow they lack talent. 2) A pretty face will only get you so far. After all, when your song comes on the ipod in the ride, we hear your voice NOT your face. Do you really want us to get into a car accident? and 3) Bish PLEASE! Your voice/talent is your BEST promotional tool. You can't even promote yourself correctly ! Blame yourself for beleiving that someone else could actually make you a star when your light is... pretty dim.

toots said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

oh, I was never into Tamar and that scene, Tamar outside of Prince

Did Prince form a band around her, or create her image, or was she an 'already existing act' that Prince pulled her to sing in his band? I don't know the mechanics of their relationship

If u wasnt into Tamar then why are u trying ur best to discourage her opinion and her view on that particular subject? Seriously...if u dont know the mechanics of the relationship or took the time to understand maybe luv knows more about it then what u think and that is why she stated her opinion... P "created her image" regardless if he pulled her to sing with his band or not, face it she is here to stay and if she can/cant pull off the act with/without P then fine only time will tell if and when things will happen.

No one is discouraging my opinion or my view. I just threw her name in coz Tamar's name was not on the list.

toots said:

I blame the protege. The minute you choose to become a yes person you are bound for failure. If Prince produces a song for you or add elements to your song and you don't like it, you simply say no.

I do understand, however, the protege's perspective, especially when one is young, that they look at this as an opportunity to travel, share the world stage and get an album out, but they must have a plan B should/when this collaboration does not work out.

FunkySideEffects said:

toots said:

I never mentioned anything about the "stardom" ur talking about... and to face the facts Vanitys career never got far any way .. a few appearances here and there...o and maybe a album onthe side but didnt really lift off as what ur trying to tell me...u may look into the band OUTSIDE of Prince but i see the whole picture either way they was tied to Prince .. and if u wanna say Apples "rode" the PR train go for it but Vanity did as well as a matter of fact they ALL did(the ones tied to the movie) .. or did u forget she was originally was cast before Apples( for Apples role) in PR?And TBH her singing SUCKED in The Last Dragon...sounded like her straining to hit the notes but Apples did much better(since he added Lisa to balance it all out on the album and yes even i can hear Lisa's voice in the song TMWY) So don t correct me on my opinion if the topic was for specific proteges it should of stated it...i guess u missed the part of me stating in my original statement... its wasnt P fault..

Wendy & Lisa isnt into the kind of on screen "stardom" ur talking or thinking.. they write scores for film/tv shows and have won awards as well as gone and made a few albums of their own WITHOUT P help and without the former members help( this includes the scores they write for tv shows) Yes maybe the first few albums former members helped on and that isnt including their siblings.. the more recent albums are all them

[Edited 10/3/12 7:27am]

I really only was focusing on protoge's under Prince's "care". I didn't think Wendy & Lisa were his protoge's - they were band mates. I really actually don't think any of Prince's protoge's have had successful careers with & without Prince. The way he's handling Andy's new career right now is a good example. I know it's only just begun so I can't comment much but u have 2 admit its gotten off to a rocky start. And once the album has dropped I STILL don't think it will do very well. Just my opinion. But is that cos Prince could have done better? Or just the state his fans are in right now (or lack thereof). In no way was I referring to his band mates or the protoge's after they've flown from the Prince camp (because they aren't protoge's anymore). I was talking about that moment when he presents them to the world.

I think Prince would have done better if he was able to. I remember a few fans saying something happened with him and Bria and this is the reason they didn't promote Elixer. Prince didn't seem interested in the Elixer project after he released it with Lotusflower. He quickly made Andy Allo his next investment (protege). The way he began promoting Andy from the beginning was ridiculous. Prince tried to turn her image into something she is not. Andy doesn't fit in well with Prince or the NPG and after touring with him it looks like she turned into a narcissistic and inconsiderate person. If she wants to 'act' like she's too good to reply to her fans I think it will be her own fault, and it's Prince fault too.

MJMia said:

FunkySideEffects said:

toots said: I really only was focusing on protoge's under Prince's "care". I didn't think Wendy & Lisa were his protoge's - they were band mates. I really actually don't think any of Prince's protoge's have had successful careers with & without Prince. The way he's handling Andy's new career right now is a good example. I know it's only just begun so I can't comment much but u have 2 admit its gotten off to a rocky start. And once the album has dropped I STILL don't think it will do very well. Just my opinion. But is that cos Prince could have done better? Or just the state his fans are in right now (or lack thereof). In no way was I referring to his band mates or the protoge's after they've flown from the Prince camp (because they aren't protoge's anymore). I was talking about that moment when he presents them to the world.

I think Prince would have done better if he was able to. I remember a few fans saying something happened with him and Bria and this is the reason they didn't promote Elixer. Prince didn't seem interested in the Elixer project after he released it with Lotusflower. He quickly made Andy Allo his next investment (protege). The way he began promoting Andy from the beginning was ridiculous. Prince tried to turn her image into something she is not. Andy doesn't fit in well with Prince or the NPG and after touring with him it looks like she turned into a narcissistic and inconsiderate person. If she wants to 'act' like she's too good to reply to her fans I think it will be her own fault, and it's Prince fault too.

Prince would do better if he had someone that was honest with him too.

wonder505 said:

I blame the protege. The minute you choose to become a yes person you are bound for failure. If Prince produces a song for you or add elements to your song and you don't like it, you simply say no.

I do understand, however, the protege's perspective, especially when one is young, that they look at this as an opportunity to travel, share the world stage and get an album out, but they must have a plan B should/when this collaboration does not work out.

true

Prince dealings with the proteges after the 1980s is much different from prior

the 1980 proteges had a good start and many were known during those years ie the Time Vanity 6 Sheila E they also werent 'young' like the post 1980s group, most were his peers and his age group

famous said:

Ugh okay.

Prince, because 1) He Knooooows they lack talent. 2) No matter how you pray the cake to rise, if you forgot the baking powder, kiss that s*** goodbye! To me, most of them are pretty decorated muffins, looks great on the outside but once you take a bite, you put it down and slowly walk away. 3) I really don't think their well promoted.

Protege, because 1) they knoooooow they lack talent. 2) A pretty face will only get you so far. After all, when your song comes on the ipod in the ride, we hear your voice NOT your face. Do you really want us to get into a car accident? and 3) Bish PLEASE! Your voice/talent is your BEST promotional tool. You can't even promote yourself correctly ! Blame yourself for beleiving that someone else could actually make you a star when your light is... pretty dim.

Here's the most reasonable, common-sense answer! It's both their faults!

I like the parallelism in your answer too - 1) lack of talent 2) looks only get you so far 3) promotion - BOTH need to take responsibility for each element 1, 2, and 3 for their failure.

Thank you, famous.

I'd just add that I think Prince takes proteges who cannot make it on their own because it's an ego-trip for him to "make something out of nothing" or to be able to control everything, and people who cannot make it on their own seek out or welcome being his protege because, well, they can't make it on their own! So it's a self-perpetuating cycle that many of his proteges fail - they lack that most important quality, undeniable talent.

artist76 said:

famous said:

Ugh okay.

Prince, because 1) He Knooooows they lack talent. 2) No matter how you pray the cake to rise, if you forgot the baking powder, kiss that s*** goodbye! To me, most of them are pretty decorated muffins, looks great on the outside but once you take a bite, you put it down and slowly walk away. 3) I really don't think their well promoted.

Protege, because 1) they knoooooow they lack talent. 2) A pretty face will only get you so far. After all, when your song comes on the ipod in the ride, we hear your voice NOT your face. Do you really want us to get into a car accident? and 3) Bish PLEASE! Your voice/talent is your BEST promotional tool. You can't even promote yourself correctly ! Blame yourself for beleiving that someone else could actually make you a star when your light is... pretty dim.

Here's the most reasonable, common-sense answer! It's both their faults!

I like the parallelism in your answer too - 1) lack of talent 2) looks only get you so far 3) promotion - BOTH need to take responsibility for each element 1, 2, and 3 for their failure.

Thank you, famous.

I'd just add that I think Prince takes proteges who cannot make it on their own because it's an ego-trip for him to "make something out of nothing" or to be able to control everything, and people who cannot make it on their own seek out or welcome being his protege because, well, they can't make it on their own! So it's a self-perpetuating cycle that many of his proteges fail - they lack that most important quality, undeniable talent.

Is this about Andy or all proteges in general?

Even with Andy, obviously she was doing something, to be noticed. She's new and young, so she won't be as talented as some seasoned people.

I think what can make it fail is Prince trying to convince someone, in this case Andy, to be something she isn't. If he just takes her as is and works with that it can be successful. She should not be backed by the NPG at all. She should have her own band of people that she knows and works with and not try to make her Princess & the NPG

Most of the 1980's proteges that were interested in making it, did as far as they could under princes wing, but Prince did have total control on the projects which was a set up for them eventually ending. It's clear the Time Vanity 6 Sheila E the Family & Mazarati had what it took to front the bands they had the image he wanted them to put forth. That was a different time in Prince history though. There was a connection to a vision.

I don't know what or how the Bria Andy or even Tamar were supposed to connect with what Prince's albums were doing outside of just singing.

The protege and Prince are at fault. The protege and Prince are naive about how his brain works. He has a history of losing interest...even in his own work at times...I would be star struck too if Prince wanted to be involved with my music but he has been quite predictable in this area of his career. I am more interested in Liv Warfield...his background singer...who has her own thing going on.

The Time becomes a threat

On 11 November 1982, The Time left to tour with Prince as support on the 1999 tour. Dubbed the "Triple Threat tour," the tour also featured Vanity 6. The Time also functioned as Vanity 6's backing group, playing behind a stage curtain. Jerome Benton was added to The Time line-up as a dancer and Morris' valet on stage.

If Vanity 6's short opening set seemed somewhat silly, The Time's tight dance grooves, high-spirited stage moves and routines made them an exciting live band and they were usually very well received.

On a day off from the tour, in December 1982, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis went to Atlanta for a session with the SOS Band. They had been writing and producing material for other groups, including Klymaxx and the SOS Band. However, when they were going to fly back, they were snowed in at the airport and failed to make it back to a concert in San Antonio.

For the show, Jerome Benton, who appeared as Morris Day's valet in The Time's act, strapped on a bass guitar and pretended to play the instrument while Prince stood in the shadows playing Terry Lewis' bass lines. Jill Jones stood in for Jimmy Jam.

Jimmy and Terry fulfilled their 1999 tour commitments, but things between them and Prince were never the same, and they were fired from The Time after the tour. Jimmy doesn't attribute it only to their non-attendance, "Prince didn't want to break the group up, but the snowstorm provided the excuse he needed to fire us two. He thought we were off seeing some girls. Then he saw our picture in Billboard or something with the SOS Band, and all that changed. Seems like it was OK to be off seeing girls, but not OK to be furthering your own career."

The 1999 tour continued after a one-month break in January of 1983. On the 1983 tour, The Time were sometimes demoted from the bill. No official reasons were given for their occasional exclusion, but it's quite likely that Prince didn't want to risk being upstaged in some of the major cities. For example, at the shows in Los Angeles and New York in March 1983, the bill was just Vanity 6 and Prince.

Without a doubt, The Time's unpretentious music and light-hearted show contrasted with Prince's more ambitious and elabo rate theatrics. Morris Day thinks The Time were becoming a threat to Prince, adding that The Time's success caught many by surprise, "I think the whole thing was never expected to be anything more than an opening act. There used to be some arguments before going onstage about things that I would do that were conflicting with the things that Prince would do. I was told not to do certain things, certain dances."