alphachannel said:

I was reading the avalanche of posts about the new song R ‘n R Affair; one comment that stood out talks about Prince being a sponge. I agree totally and do not at all intend this to be an insult.

We have seen how over the years Prince has been able to assimilate what's around him -- whether it be musicians in his band, artists who came before him, the “underground" scene, or pop culture in general – and re-purpose them into something unique if not brilliant. However, as the post suggested, lately he seemingly isn’t surrounded by anyone or anything that is an inspiration or challenge. No disrespect intended for his current band mates (who I imagine are very talented individuals who can reproduce practically anything from the Prince catalog), but unfortunately, they do not seem to bring anything to the table (and possibly are not allowed to)…

Sure Prince has always been in charge, but the influence Andre, Dez, Fink, Wendy & Lisa, Sheila, Levi, Sonny T & Michael B and so many others had on Prince from 1976 through the late ‘90s is undeniable. If the only inspiration is his own back catalog then maybe all we can realistically expect is lesser interpretations of the music we already know – I certainly hope I am wrong…

I agree with this.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

I found it laughable that you think Wendy and Lisa are some kind of Prince clones. If you do your research it appears that they influenced Prince just as much if not more than the other way around, most of the main biographies of him testify to this.

Many of his greatest songs included Wendy and Lisa arrangements and compositions. Do you want me to spell them out?

Yes, please do!

^

Power Fantastic

Around The World In A Day (in particular from Lisa's brother)

Wonderful Ass

Most of what Prince did for Dream Factory that he didn't move to SOTT....(because it would have needed their consent)..ex. Witness for the Prosecution, A Place in Heaven

Our Destiny

Go

Pop Life

Splash

Most of 'Parade'

These are just a few I can think of off the top of my head but there are many more that have Wendy and Lisa's arrangements in them.

[Edited 9/30/12 14:21pm]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^

Power Fantastic

Around The World In A Day (in particular from Lisa's brother)

Wonderful Ass

Most of what Prince did for Dream Factory that he didn't move to SOTT....(because it would have needed their consent)..ex. Witness for the Prosecution, A Place in Heaven

Our Destiny

Go

Pop Life

Splash

Most of 'Parade'

These are just a few I can think of off the top of my head but there are many more that have Wendy and Lisa's arrangements in them.

[Edited 9/30/12 14:21pm]

But what specifically did they add? I'm especially curious about their contribution to the Parade album.

^ You are joking right

They added loads to those songs.

As to Parade, they were most heavily involved with Mountains but also 'Christopher Tracy's Parade' was originally called Little Girl Wendy's Parade

Check princevault.com for details, it's got lots of details on who did what on many of his songs.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ You are joking right

They added loads to those songs.

As to Parade, they were most heavily involved with Mountains but also 'Christopher Tracy's Parade' was originally called Little Girl Wendy's Parade

Check princevault.com for details, it's got lots of details on who did what on many of his songs.

So I keep hearing. But what exactlly? Is it mostly speculation?

No, check out the website it'll tell u. As you discover more of his music you get to 'hear' when it's Wendy and Lisa's work, particularly after you have heard more of their work in their subsequent solo albums. Prince knew they had talent and used it successfully in much of his mid 80s work.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

No, check out the website it'll tell u. As you discover more of his music you get to 'hear' when it's Wendy and Lisa's work, particularly after you have heard more of their work in their subsequent solo albums. Prince knew they had talent and used it successfully in much of his mid 80s work.

So you don't know the spesifics? Yor simply trust what you "hear"?

^ Well I wasn't there on the day of recording lol, but I do know they were closely involved, listen closely my friend. Just as you recognise if a song is by Mozart or Beethoven, you can recognise when a song has Wendy and Lisa's input... Anyway, if you haven't got their albums I'd recommend them!!!

[Edited 9/30/12 14:59pm]

BartVanHemelen said:

johnny2000 said:

The fact that Wendy & Lisa have gone on to be a great production team indicates to me that their role as a ‘Producer’ in the glory years was probably larger than it was ever noted on the record sleeves. That’s not to say that he couldn’t still do it alone on certain tracks, but songs like ‘Around The World In A Day’ have so many different musical colours that he has never revisited since, which (to me) indicates that it was a real team effort at the time on certain songs.

...but, you have to have a good team of course, not just 'yes' men and women.

You do know that ATWIAD is really not a Prince song, right? http://princevault.com/in...d_In_A_Day

Yes, I knew it was pretty much not written by Prince, but what's interesting to me though is that when I bought the album in 1985 I would have guessed it was 95% written by Prince. It's disappointing to learn that songs like 'Mountains' are not really his compositions.

Great conversation everyone!

I think I raised the ire of several posters with my negative critique of the current music landscape. My school days are decades behind me so admittedly I'm not as in touch with the present alternative and underground scenes (though I have heard some cool stuff when I've stumbled upon it).

Absolutely there's been crap music that got undeserved attention in every decade across all genres, but my criticism against the current mainstream stuff is simply that there's a dearth of originality. As a kid of the 70s & 80s we had plenty of vapid garbage pumping out of the radio but there was a wider variety of styles and artists -- good, bad and mediocre. Seemingly too much of the mainstream is homogeneous and/or derivative; all this to say it doesn't SEEM like there's much out there that would inspire or provoke artists to produce something new and exciting. And as always I could be just a wrong-headed curmudgeon who "won't let go of the past."

Something else... I was reading a book on Stevie Wonder that detailed some of the unsung people behind the scenes and how they helped him create the sounds, structure and color for his songs over the 1972-1976 period, arguably his heyday. Makes you wonder if people like Susan Rogers and others we've never heard of had more an influence on Prince in the Warner days than we know. Not a slam against the later music, just a thought...

Oh, and sorry Bart I didn't namecheck you on your comment -- totally spot on point

[Edited 10/4/12 12:41pm]

[Edited 10/4/12 12:43pm]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ You are joking right

They added loads to those songs.

As to Parade, they were most heavily involved with Mountains but also 'Christopher Tracy's Parade' was originally called Little Girl Wendy's Parade

Check princevault.com for details, it's got lots of details on who did what on many of his songs.

And more. The group’s latest album, Parade: Music from 'Under the Cherry Moon,’ contains two songs — “Sometimes It Snows in April” and “Mountains” — co-written by Lisa and Wendy. They have also begun writing songs for Prince’s third movie. They’re not sure what it’s about, but Prince has let it be known he’ll shape his film to suit their songs.

by Neal Karlen
Rolling Stone, April 24, 1986

^ OldFriends!

I just saw the main bit of the text without the date, thought 'Wendy and Lisa are writing a score for Prince's next movie!!!' Got excited for a second there before I saw 1986 lol

MOJO: It's alright to copy yourself.

PRINCE: You think you hit on something, right! You try to do it again...ya know? (both laugh) I try not to do that too much. If I do, then it's usually someone around, Wendy or Lisa, who says, "Hey, man, I've heard that. Put it away." And it goes away. And we don't hear from that song for a while. Mojo, guess what? We're all going to see Purple Rain tonight.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ OldFriends!

I just saw the main bit of the text without the date, thought 'Wendy and Lisa are writing a score for Prince's next movie!!!' Got excited for a second there before I saw 1986 lol

LOL

I wonder was this the movie Prince refered to as following Under the Cherry Moon in one those 1985 interviews

"I'm going to make a film about it -- not the next one, but the one after that. I've wanted to make it for three years now..." Prince 1985

^ It's possible he did have a plan but shelved it when he split with the Revolution and then made SOTT instead. It could even have been moulded into what later came out as Graffiti Bridge...

Even as late as 2006 he was saying he was planning to make a film explaining his life....

OldFriends4Sale said:

cbarnes3121 said:

prince need competition 2 fuel him who is around?? michael is dead whitney is dead madonna puts out shit music nothing around him worth the challenge these days

But i dont think the competion is in the place of music. Because you can only compare people making similar music. Cant compare the biggest country artist with the biggest rapper

Madonna though is still selling in ways Prince hasnt in a long time, so it cant be shit m

thr challenge though that she MJ and others gave was in showmanship and entertainment and M still puts on show worth the money plus her selling of merchandise DVDs concerts etc she could challenge PRINCE in a big way as far as fandom is concerned

yea madonna is more of a sell out a slave 2 t he system she is not a real artist prince is a musican first so in that regards i would say he has no competition

cbarnes3121 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

But i dont think the competion is in the place of music. Because you can only compare people making similar music. Cant compare the biggest country artist with the biggest rapper

Madonna though is still selling in ways Prince hasnt in a long time, so it cant be shit m

thr challenge though that she MJ and others gave was in showmanship and entertainment and M still puts on show worth the money plus her selling of merchandise DVDs concerts etc she could challenge PRINCE in a big way as far as fandom is concerned

yea madonna is more of a sell out a slave 2 t he system she is not a real artist prince is a musican first so in that regards i would say he has no competition

yeah no other real artists out their nobody who is a musician first

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^

Power Fantastic

Around The World In A Day (in particular from Lisa's brother)

Wonderful Ass

Most of what Prince did for Dream Factory that he didn't move to SOTT....(because it would have needed their consent)..ex. Witness for the Prosecution, A Place in Heaven

Our Destiny

Go

Pop Life

Splash

Most of 'Parade'

These are just a few I can think of off the top of my head but there are many more that have Wendy and Lisa's arrangements in them.

[Edited 9/30/12 14:21pm]

I thought Wendy and Lisa contributed to the Planet Earth album. Many of those songs have the "wendy and lisa" vibe/sound to them. Any idea on the real story (how much they added/playe/etc) with this?

^ You are right. However as far as I'm aware, their vocal input was limited to Resolution and maybe The Lion Of Judah (excellent and underrated song IMO).

Their voices are way too low in the mix IMO, you'd hardly know they worked on it!

According to Princevault:

• Wendy Melvoin - acoustic guitar on The One U Wanna C and Resolution, mandolin on All The Midnights In The World
• Lisa Coleman - additional keyboards on The One U Wanna C and Resolution

[Edited 10/5/12 8:17am]

skywalker said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^

Power Fantastic

Around The World In A Day (in particular from Lisa's brother)

Wonderful Ass

Most of what Prince did for Dream Factory that he didn't move to SOTT....(because it would have needed their consent)..ex. Witness for the Prosecution, A Place in Heaven

Our Destiny

Go

Pop Life

Splash

Most of 'Parade'

These are just a few I can think of off the top of my head but there are many more that have Wendy and Lisa's arrangements in them.

[Edited 9/30/12 14:21pm]

I thought Wendy and Lisa contributed to the Planet Earth album. Many of those songs have the "wendy and lisa" vibe/sound to them. Any idea on the real story (how much they added/playe/etc) with this?

yes they did, for some reason it seems the contributions on the album were not put in place

I believe it was on the org where someone post a full credit of the albums work

Prince's 2007 album Planet Earth features appearances by Wendy & Lisa on the songs "The One U Wanna C" and "Lion of Judah." Melvoin accompanied Prince at the 07.07.07 Target Center concert & the 1st Avenue aftershow, in Minneapolis

http://www.naplyrics.com/...index.html

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^

Power Fantastic

Around The World In A Day (in particular from Lisa's brother)

Wonderful Ass

Most of what Prince did for Dream Factory that he didn't move to SOTT....(because it would have needed their consent)..ex. Witness for the Prosecution, A Place in Heaven

Our Destiny

Go

Pop Life

Splash

Most of 'Parade'

These are just a few I can think of off the top of my head but there are many more that have Wendy and Lisa's arrangements in them.

[Edited 9/30/12 14:21pm]

Manic Mondy

17 Days

America

the Dance Electric

Computer Blue

A Million Miles (I Love U)

to add to the list

http://www.jaynedoll.pwp....dlisa.html

OldFriends4Sale said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^

Power Fantastic

Around The World In A Day (in particular from Lisa's brother)

Wonderful Ass

Most of what Prince did for Dream Factory that he didn't move to SOTT....(because it would have needed their consent)..ex. Witness for the Prosecution, A Place in Heaven

Our Destiny

Go

Pop Life

Splash

Most of 'Parade'

These are just a few I can think of off the top of my head but there are many more that have Wendy and Lisa's arrangements in them.

[Edited 9/30/12 14:21pm]

Manic Mondy

17 Days

America

the Dance Electric

Computer Blue

A Million Miles (I Love U)

to add to the list

http://www.jaynedoll.pwp....dlisa.html

I checked out the link above, and the site seems to indicate that W&L did mostly backing vocals.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Manic Mondy

17 Days

America

the Dance Electric

Computer Blue

A Million Miles (I Love U)

to add to the list

http://www.jaynedoll.pwp....dlisa.html

I checked out the link above, and the site seems to indicate that W&L did mostly backing vocals.

well they did back vocals on most of Princes song

Lisa did back vocals on all of Prince albums from Dirty Mind - SOTT including on protege music so did Jill

They both contributed a lot of string work, Wendy played guitar on some of the Family

Most of the ones above under my name they are cowriters, Power Fantastic Mountains specifically are Lisa Coleman compositions, PF Mountains America Computer Blue the whole revolution performed on incl Lets Go Crazy PR IWD4U Baby Im a Star

Most of the Dream Factory work the majority of the band worked on

Prince had W & Lisa especially on instruments most of the time he had them in the studio

Even Prince in a 1990 interview said he never gave full credit for who performed on what

Lisa said a lot of the protege music was Prince Morris & her working on the stuff for the Time & Vanity 6

the list goes on

thats just a particular site

paulludvig said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

No, check out the website it'll tell u. As you discover more of his music you get to 'hear' when it's Wendy and Lisa's work, particularly after you have heard more of their work in their subsequent solo albums. Prince knew they had talent and used it successfully in much of his mid 80s work.

So you don't know the spesifics? Yor simply trust what you "hear"?

People think that you're a dictator in the studio, that you want to control everything. In L.A., however, I saw Wendy and Lisa mixing singles while you were in Paris. How do you feel about your reputation?

Someone in Minneapolis recently told us that several months ago they were in a studio there when David Rifkin, your sound engineer, walked in. They asked him what he thought of the new Prince album, Around The World In A Day. He said, "It's great, but wait 'til you hear the new album." Apparently, he meant you're already working on a new LP, and that this one would be a strong return to your funk roots. Is this true? Can you elaborate? What will it be called? When will it be due out, and what's the music like?

Don't you like surprises? Guess not. Ah, it is true I record very fast. It goes even quicker now that the girls help me -- the girls, meaning Wendy and Lisa. I don't really think I left my funk roots anywhere along the line. Around The World In A Day is a funky album. Live it's even funkier.

Also everyone from Susan Rogers, Alan Leeds, Eric Leeds, Dr Fink & Bobby Z have talked about Prince's working relationship with them

maybe because Prince finds them mediocre too? Maybe those times are just over, and it is what it is

'What's missing from pop music is danger,' Prince proclaimed in November 1982. 'There's no excitement and mystery - people sneaking out and going to these forbidden concerts by Elvis Presley or Jimi Hendrix.'

Danger is an overly mythologised quality in pop, but at the dawn of that decade Prince embodied something so thrilling and so category-smashing that within five years he'd all but turned pop on its head. Of the four stars who bossed the Eighties - Michael Jackson, Madonna, Bruce Springsteen, Prince - the 5'2" prodigy from Minneapolis was the only true maverick in the pack.

alphachannel said:

I was reading the avalanche of posts about the new song R ‘n R Affair; one comment that stood out talks about Prince being a sponge. I agree totally and do not at all intend this to be an insult.

We have seen how over the years Prince has been able to assimilate what's around him -- whether it be musicians in his band, artists who came before him, the “underground" scene, or pop culture in general – and re-purpose them into something unique if not brilliant. However, as the post suggested, lately he seemingly isn’t surrounded by anyone or anything that is an inspiration or challenge. No disrespect intended for his current band mates (who I imagine are very talented individuals who can reproduce practically anything from the Prince catalog), but unfortunately, they do not seem to bring anything to the table (and possibly are not allowed to)…

Sure Prince has always been in charge, but the influence Andre, Dez, Fink, Wendy & Lisa, Sheila, Levi, Sonny T & Michael B and so many others had on Prince from 1976 through the late ‘90s is undeniable. If the only inspiration is his own back catalog then maybe all we can realistically expect is lesser interpretations of the music we already know – I certainly hope I am wrong…

you can go into all kinds of theories but my belief is that people in general are fickle and that just as relationships go through stages so do pop stars. you have the early stages where everythings is cool, then we get into further stages that test the relationship and I'd say most relationships end with negative feelings by both parties, demonizing the other. Same with any pop star, they are new and fresh, they get caught up themselves in the whirlwind, change, lose touch, their fans also take them for granted and criticize every move they make like they own them, the star is usually out of touch with that sentiment because they surround themselves with yes men. Fans may take brief interests which create "comebacks" but usually in the end, most pop stars end up being social jokes. Elvis, as fondly as many remember him was a joke at the time of his death. They build you up to tear you down.

petes2 said:

alphachannel said:

I was reading the avalanche of posts about the new song R ‘n R Affair; one comment that stood out talks about Prince being a sponge. I agree totally and do not at all intend this to be an insult.

We have seen how over the years Prince has been able to assimilate what's around him -- whether it be musicians in his band, artists who came before him, the “underground" scene, or pop culture in general – and re-purpose them into something unique if not brilliant. However, as the post suggested, lately he seemingly isn’t surrounded by anyone or anything that is an inspiration or challenge. No disrespect intended for his current band mates (who I imagine are very talented individuals who can reproduce practically anything from the Prince catalog), but unfortunately, they do not seem to bring anything to the table (and possibly are not allowed to)…

Sure Prince has always been in charge, but the influence Andre, Dez, Fink, Wendy & Lisa, Sheila, Levi, Sonny T & Michael B and so many others had on Prince from 1976 through the late ‘90s is undeniable. If the only inspiration is his own back catalog then maybe all we can realistically expect is lesser interpretations of the music we already know – I certainly hope I am wrong…

you can go into all kinds of theories but my belief is that people in general are fickle and that just as relationships go through stages so do pop stars. you have the early stages where everythings is cool, then we get into further stages that test the relationship and I'd say most relationships end with negative feelings by both parties, demonizing the other. Same with any pop star, they are new and fresh, they get caught up themselves in the whirlwind, change, lose touch, their fans also take them for granted and criticize every move they make like they own them, the star is usually out of touch with that sentiment because they surround themselves with yes men. Fans may take brief interests which create "comebacks" but usually in the end, most pop stars end up being social jokes. Elvis, as fondly as many remember him was a joke at the time of his death. They build you up to tear you down.

I think what both of you are saying is true,

I mean before Prince got into the 1990s good a lot of his music career was a personal battle with WB, which would seriously affect his music and focus, also get the wrong people in your camp and some not so good stuff gets absorbed

Everything Prince does isn't good

And yes Prince's ego and talent made his head big by 1990 Prince was in a totally different mental state than 1986 or 1984

bad career moves like not tour the states for SOTT, I think that was a cricial mistake 4 his career as far as the US was concerned

Like I said U both have very honest and valid, I'd say factual points

Another reason why we may find his music mediocre is that we are no longer the audience we were. Most of his fans have been there either since the 80s or the 90s, and we as well have evolved and learned for the past 20-30 years to listen and appreciate a vast variety of music asside from Prince's.

Maybe our taste palet has evolved to such an extend that it takes a lot more for us to still be surprised by something he does.

We like a lot of his older music because we associate it with those thrilling days when his sound was new and special and we were easily surprised with his search for new ideas. But as the ideas ran thinner and our taste expanded, the gap just became wider and wider.

zobilamouche said:

Another reason why we may find his music mediocre is that we are no longer the audience we were. Most of his fans have been there either since the 80s or the 90s, and we as well have evolved and learned for the past 20-30 years to listen and appreciate a vast variety of music asside from Prince's.

Maybe our taste palet has evolved to such an extend that it takes a lot more for us to still be surprised by something he does.

We like a lot of his older music because we associate it with those thrilling days when his sound was new and special and we were easily surprised with his search for new ideas. But as the ideas ran thinner and our taste expanded, the gap just became wider and wider.

Another good point.