Without exactly knowing why: It's his taste lacking in the end. He has all the talent but chooses to create formulaic pop music on auto pilot.

johnny2000 said:

The fact that Wendy & Lisa have gone on to be a great production team indicates to me that their role as a ‘Producer’ in the glory years was probably larger than it was ever noted on the record sleeves. That’s not to say that he couldn’t still do it alone on certain tracks, but songs like ‘Around The World In A Day’ have so many different musical colours that he has never revisited since, which (to me) indicates that it was a real team effort at the time on certain songs.

...but, you have to have a good team of course, not just 'yes' men and women.

You do know that ATWIAD is really not a Prince song, right? http://princevault.com/in...d_In_A_Day

Optimus2 said:

I know the majority of u will disagree but weve had enuuf of classic tunes from 2000 -2012 IMO....

Chocolate Box

Illusion,Coma,Pimp & Circumstance

Cinammon Girl

Call My Name

Musicology

1+1+1 = 3

Dance 4 Me

Fury

Beautiful Strange

Love

Chelsea Rodgers

The Word

3121

Song Of The Heart

Conolized Mind

Dear Mr Man

Old Skool Company

Avalanche

U Make My Sunshine

When Will We B Paid

A Million Days

Future Soul Song

Everywere

I think teh problem is the albums themselves...if he did 1 every few years.....then uve got sum great albusm right there ^

They're such classic tunes that I can't even recall how some of them go. One of them is a frikking cover. 1+1+1=3 is a rehash of Erotic City, so he could please his concert-going fans with something that sounds like Erotic City but will not upset the elders at his church.Etcetera.

The simple fact that you started out with "Chocolate Box", something that would at best have been a B-Side for The Time (I'm being enormously generous here), speaks volumes.

alphachannel said:

I was reading the avalanche of posts about the new song R ‘n R Affair; one comment that stood out talks about Prince being a sponge. I agree totally and do not at all intend this to be an insult.

We have seen how over the years Prince has been able to assimilate what's around him -- whether it be musicians in his band, artists who came before him, the “underground" scene, or pop culture in general – and re-purpose them into something unique if not brilliant. However, as the post suggested, lately he seemingly isn’t surrounded by anyone or anything that is an inspiration or challenge. No disrespect intended for his current band mates (who I imagine are very talented individuals who can reproduce practically anything from the Prince catalog), but unfortunately, they do not seem to bring anything to the table (and possibly are not allowed to)…

Sure Prince has always been in charge, but the influence Andre, Dez, Fink, Wendy & Lisa, Sheila, Levi, Sonny T & Michael B and so many others had on Prince from 1976 through the late ‘90s is undeniable. If the only inspiration is his own back catalog then maybe all we can realistically expect is lesser interpretations of the music we already know – I certainly hope I am wrong…

Your last point is totally valid. I'm not sure prince lives in a vacuum, just listening to his stuff (though i've heard him say that in the past) But yeah overtime a copy of a copy gets inferior.

I don't know what it is. I never commented on RnR affair, it's just there. MOR and tepid like a weak cuppa tea.

prince need competition 2 fuel him who is around?? michael is dead whitney is dead madonna puts out shit music nothing around him worth the challenge these days

rdhull said:

It's all brain chemistry. If you are in your formative years, the music, movies, fashion etc all are endearing to you. Once you age a few decades, these new things do not have the same effects on you as the earlier ones have. All n all (EWF), the zeitgeist of your youth is always going to seem the best and everything that comes after will be mediocre.

However I will say that Dont Stop sucks compared to Start Me Up, and even that sucks compared to Brown Suga. Incense n Candles sucks compared to The Beautiful Ones.

But to a new generation these songs are the bomb diggidy. How else to explain the rise of Lil Payne, Perry, and them?

I couldn't have said it any better, you just nailed my thoughts.

Another perfect example to picture this would lay on the bootleg department. Go figure you'd have access to tracks such as "Our Destiny" or "Lust U Always" even in mediocre quality back in the mid 80's ... you'd be over the moon and wear out your copy, I bet. At least I'm pretty sure I would. Move forward, you are 25 years older and suddenly one fine day you can download these and more tracks in a question of seconds for free. Play them with anticipation in your room just to feel embarrassment. LOL

Why we may find the newer songs mediocre?

Well, they REALLY ARE.

And some of us really have AN EAR.

BartVanHemelen said:

Back in the 1980s Prince was influenced by what he heard via all kinds of channels, and to a large degree his band members. Listen to Prince's output of the past decade and a half and you hear a man who hasn't listened to anything except himself and whatever pop crap filters through.

(oh wow, I'm about to reply to Bart's comment without disagreeing...)

I would add: and way to much of Sly & The Family Stone's Greatest Hits. I love Sly, but I'm way past tired of Prince covering his hits. He should drop it, or, at least cover some of Sly's classics that are not on the Greatest Hits package.

FunkySideEffects said:

It's because Prince's fans are musically advanced than others ie we have horns, guitar, funk, falsetto, soul plus Prince's poetic lyrics etc etc. Therefore we don't want the mediocre stuff that today's artists deliver. Thanks 2 Prince We know good music & that's what we want. [Edited 9/29/12 1:58am]

BartVanHemelen said:

alphachannel said:

Perhaps we can blame both a lack of influence from the band mates he's choosing and the currently barren musical landscape.

But this is nonsense. There's plenty of challenging music, go look up tUnE-yArDs, The Weeknd, Frank Ocean, Santigold, Cat Power, Friends, Grizzly Bear, Clock Opera, The xx, Jack White, Neon Indian, Bat For Lashes, Alt-J, Regina Spektor, El-P, Ladyhawke, M83, Major Lazer, Arcade Fire, LCD Soundsystem, Hot Chip, James Blake, PJ Harvey, Sam Sparro, Beach House, Nicolas Jaar, Poliça, Sigur Ros,... And that's just some of the things I've recently been listening to.

Back in the 1980s Prince was influenced by what he heard via all kinds of channels, and to a large degree his band members. Listen to Prince's output of the past decade and a half and you hear a man who hasn't listened to anything except himself and whatever pop crap filters through.

There is some truth to this. However, I am willing to bet that if Prince were to put out the material that some of these folks did, Bart would still bitch about it.

Prince put it this way "My only competition is?well, me in the past "

in other words: he has so many great songs that have become a part of who we are or that are connected to something or that we know so well we really do not even need to play them to experience them... that any new song has so much to compete with that we may not give them the chance to even get in our heads.

it is like if you are rich and find a $100 bill that is all good and stuff but it doesn't mean what it used to mean.

the sentimental attachment to older songs help keep them on the tops of our lists and rankings.

the novelty of some old outtake that we hear now for the first time helps push that song such that we give it more of a chance.

Good post OnlyNUSA. True. Sentiment, brain conditioning, not being able to let go of the past all interfere with enjoying the now. And Skywalker, yes I agree that Bart wouldn't be happy with anything. Bart is lucky. He must have reached all his dreams coz he spends all his time criticizing others.

Prince said recently in a interview that 'things were all good now with the people he hangs out with. He said also that, 'in the past, things had been chaotic and it had affected him.'

I'd rather have a healthy Prince enjoying good company than anything else.I think Prince is enjoying himself by producing others. After years and years of hard work, he's also allowed to 'spijbelen' now and then I suppose

cbarnes3121 said:

prince need competition 2 fuel him who is around?? michael is dead whitney is dead madonna puts out shit music nothing around him worth the challenge these days

But i dont think the competion is in the place of music. Because you can only compare people making similar music. Cant compare the biggest country artist with the biggest rapper

Madonna though is still selling in ways Prince hasnt in a long time, so it cant be shit m

thr challenge though that she MJ and others gave was in showmanship and entertainment and M still puts on show worth the money plus her selling of merchandise DVDs concerts etc she could challenge PRINCE in a big way as far as fandom is concerned

OnlyNDaUsa said:

in other words: he has so many great songs that have become a part of who we are or that are connected to something or that we know so well we really do not even need to play them to experience them... that any new song has so much to compete with that we may not give them the chance to even get in our heads.

it is like if you are rich and find a $100 bill that is all good and stuff but it doesn't mean what it used to mean.

the sentimental attachment to older songs help keep them on the tops of our lists and rankings.

the novelty of some old outtake that we hear now for the first time helps push that song such that we give it more of a chance.

Holy crap! We actually agree on something... Sentiment is a key factor that's overlooked.

But for me it's a little different. Prince has lots of recent songs that I totally love and by the same token there are plenty of songs from the so called glory years that I think are mediocre so I never fell into that category of people who make threads every other day grieving over his supposed decline. My like and dislike ratio has remained constant throughout his career.

babynoz said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

in other words: he has so many great songs that have become a part of who we are or that are connected to something or that we know so well we really do not even need to play them to experience them... that any new song has so much to compete with that we may not give them the chance to even get in our heads.

it is like if you are rich and find a $100 bill that is all good and stuff but it doesn't mean what it used to mean.

the sentimental attachment to older songs help keep them on the tops of our lists and rankings.

the novelty of some old outtake that we hear now for the first time helps push that song such that we give it more of a chance.

Holy crap! We actually agree on something... Sentiment is a key factor that's overlooked.

But for me it's a little different. Prince has lots of recent songs that I totally love and by the same token there are plenty of songs from the so called glory years that I think are mediocre so I never fell into that category of people who make threads every other day grieving over his supposed decline. My like and dislike ratio has remained constant throughout his career.

oh we agree much more than we disagree it is just the few things we disagree on tend to be what we remember. I for one never let political differences effect how I interact with anyone. Like heath-care: I want it to be much more affordable, I just paid $93 for ear drops that I KNOW were sold 30 years ago. same formula. But they know they can get 100 for them because it is so painful and with out them you can lose your hearing.

but yeah his new music is good and all but at my age I am harder to impress and I am not dealing with all the emotional mess I was when say 1999 came out! I am sure there many newer songs better than FREE but to me, because, I was suffering from a serious broken heart at the time it came out it means more to me than any song on his last several albums. (same goes for "the belle of st mark")

OnlyNDaUsa said:

babynoz said:

Holy crap! We actually agree on something... Sentiment is a key factor that's overlooked.

But for me it's a little different. Prince has lots of recent songs that I totally love and by the same token there are plenty of songs from the so called glory years that I think are mediocre so I never fell into that category of people who make threads every other day grieving over his supposed decline. My like and dislike ratio has remained constant throughout his career.

oh we agree much more than we disagree it is just the few things we disagree on tend to be what we remember. I for one never let political differences effect how I interact with anyone. Like heath-care: I want it to be much more affordable, I just paid $93 for ear drops that I KNOW were sold 30 years ago. same formula. But they know they can get 100 for them because it is so painful and with out them you can lose your hearing.

but yeah his new music is good and all but at my age I am harder to impress and I am not dealing with all the emotional mess I was when say 1999 came out! I am sure there many newer songs better than FREE but to me, because, I was suffering from a serious broken heart at the time it came out it means more to me than any song on his last several albums. (same goes for "the belle of st mark")

Well I can't propose 'cuz I'm too old for ya!

Seriously though, you have a very valid point. None of us is the same hormone driven, dewey eyed, kid who once viewed the world with awe and wonder and were open to connecting emotionally much moreso than we are now.

I guess I'm still intrigued with Prince because I've always been way more interested what's in Prince's mind and how he chooses to express it than I am in what others think his experience/expression should be. I don't agree with absolutely every little thing he says and does but more often than not, I still get where he's coming from and what he's trying to say even when he say it sideways.

When Prince changes direction I'm usually ready for a change myself so I don't have kittens or tear my hair out when it happens. With few exceptions, his versatility is fun to me and roaming through his mind is like a big adventure.

fuuny, when SOTT came out I was a bit MEH on it at first...

OnlyNDaUsa said:

fuuny, when SOTT came out I was a bit MEH on it at first...

Other than the title track I was too...and I still don't think much of Lovesexy even though it's blasphemy to say so around here.

Even from the beginning I loved the Prince album way more than For You.

I loved Controversy...Dirty Mind, not so much.

It's always been like that for me.

BartVanHemelen said:

Optimus2 said:

I know the majority of u will disagree but weve had enuuf of classic tunes from 2000 -2012 IMO....

Chocolate Box

Illusion,Coma,Pimp & Circumstance

Cinammon Girl

Call My Name

Musicology

1+1+1 = 3

Dance 4 Me

Fury

Beautiful Strange

Love

Chelsea Rodgers

The Word

3121

Song Of The Heart

Conolized Mind

Dear Mr Man

Old Skool Company

Avalanche

U Make My Sunshine

When Will We B Paid

A Million Days

Future Soul Song

Everywere

I think teh problem is the albums themselves...if he did 1 every few years.....then uve got sum great albusm right there ^

They're such classic tunes that I can't even recall how some of them go. One of them is a frikking cover. 1+1+1=3 is a rehash of Erotic City, so he could please his concert-going fans with something that sounds like Erotic City but will not upset the elders at his church.Etcetera.

The simple fact that you started out with "Chocolate Box", something that would at best have been a B-Side for The Time (I'm being enormously generous here), speaks volumes.

....blah blah blah blah blah blah.......im so sorry we dnt have the same taste...problem with this place....every1 thinks theyve gt sum higher calling with there own tastes in P's music....WELL PEOPLE ARE FUCKING DIFFRENT!!!!....didnt ask 4 a fucking lecture cuz I like songs u dont!!.....thats my choice I like those songs as I stated.....but there is nothing I can do!!...sorry!!!....ffs

^So why call them "classic" tunes in the first place, if only a very small group of Prince fans would agee with you. You can say you like them or whatever but to claim that they are classic is a totally different story.

BTW the only track of your list I consider really worth listening is "Everywhere" and maybe "Beautiful strange" in a live setting.

Optimus2 said:

I know the majority of u will disagree but weve had enuuf of classic tunes from 2000 -2012 IMO....

Chocolate Box

Illusion,Coma,Pimp & Circumstance

Cinammon Girl

Call My Name

Musicology

1+1+1 = 3

Dance 4 Me

Fury

Beautiful Strange

Love

Chelsea Rodgers

The Word

3121

Song Of The Heart

Conolized Mind

Dear Mr Man

Old Skool Company

Avalanche

U Make My Sunshine

When Will We B Paid

A Million Days

Future Soul Song

Everywere

I think teh problem is the albums themselves...if he did 1 every few years.....then uve got sum great albusm right there ^

Not saying they are good, but I dont think any of those can be considered 'classics' because of time period

prince isn't alone in this.

everyone's creative output seems to diminish as they age. Not always quantity, but almost always quality.

i don't know why, but i'm ready to consider it natural. It seems that the more you do something, the better you get. Except in the arts, and except when it comes to quality and innovation.

Maybe it is isolation, but bands that stay together lose the thread as well. Maybe it's that you got fat, or that you stopped caring, or somehow forgot how.

whatever it is, it might as well be expected. To make a list of artists that got better - or even just kept challenging themselves - as they got older is doable, but i don't think it's going to be a very long list.

[Edited 9/30/12 8:52am]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

The problem with this though is that he is absorbing things that aren't worth absorbing, such as Autotune and many idiotic singers esp. rappers that are about.

They all want to be him and try and copy him (Rihanna/Timberlake), so I don't know why he doesn't be HIMSELF rather than try and imitate them...it's fine when he's imitating cool talented artists like from the 60s and 70s but not half the shit that passes as 'music' today....

The only person I want him to be influenced by are himself or classical musicians such as his early proteges such as Wendy and Lisa who actually influenced him and NOT the other way around....you only have to listen to the excellent 'Wendy and Lisa' debut album to hear what amazing things those girls are capable of..

[Edited 9/28/12 11:18am]

"They all want to be him...." Someone is living an alternate universe where Prince is still relevant. Hardly anyone under 18 has even heard of him (he's the old guy who covered the Foo Fighter's Best of You at the Super Bowl). No one wants to be as irrelevant as he is.

No one.

"esp. rappers that are about."

Within a year of Prince's satirical rap song "Dead On It," it was no longer in vogue to dis rappers as "not real musicians" because most of us understood that criticizing their singing rather than praising their rapping was as stupid as criticizing Elton John's piano playing by saying he was a lousy guitarist. It's not the same thing, and rap has proven its staying power, and has developed into a musical genre despite Prince's best efforts to embarrass himself by attempting to display a rare musical talent he clearly does not possess.

"talented artists olike from the 60s and 70s"

Being EXTREMELY familiar with the (mostly) crap music of the 50s, 60s and 70s, I'm always amused when I hear this nonsense spouted by the ignorati. There is terrible music from good-looking non-musicians that is popular today. Just like in 1955, 1965, and 1975 (check the charts). There is great popular music now (including stuff that you think isn't music, but only because of the kind of muscal prejudice that Prince himself faced in the early 80s from people like you) just as there was back then. Chuck Berry is a legend. He helped create rock and roll. He also got arrested for putting a camera in the ladies restroom in a club he owned (a convicted pervert!). But his worst offense? "My Ding-A-Ling," which went to #1 in the early 1970s. Batdance went to #1 in 1989. It is a terrible mess, and is never included on compilations for obvious reasons. What did people who were your age then say about those songs (and Berry and Prince) then? The mistake is too assume everything from your youth was great and that the very worst of today is representative of everything from today. And it's been made throughout history (read about what the public thought of Beethoven's "dissonant" symphonies - older people tend to hate the musically-new and dismiss it).

Wendy and Lisa are not and never were classical musicians, even if Lisa had been very briefly "classically trained" as a pianist. And that's a good thing since that skill set adds little in the pop world (and vice versa). No one on Earth, let alone Lisa herself, considers her anything more than a competent pianist and a competent composer of what is often derisively called "film music."

And listen to Wendy sing lead some time in one of the ultra-rare live videos of them. The woman who took my order last night at McDonalds had a more commanding presense - and more charisma - in front of her mic than Wendy ever has.

Some of the best musicians in the world are classically trained. Some of the best in *history* had no such training (Jimi Hendrix). I loved Wendy & Lisa's first heavily-influenced-by-Prince album, and still do. Their second CD (Crap at the Bottom) was so bad it became the only one I have ever returned for a refund. And all of their subsequent attempts were miserable failures. I do wish they had been around Prince for a few more years because it is undeniable that their collaboration coincided with his peak and that peak is something he hasn't even approached since 1996. But their great contribution to Western music since 1987 has been scoring episodes of TV's Heroes. Prince has made very few studio recordings of any note in 15 years, but he hasn't descended so far that he needs to consult with the likes of Wendy and Lisa.

The more I learn about music composition and the history of music, the more I realize how little His fans know about either. That's a shame because it lends creedence to the charge that His fans call him a genius without having any ability to explain in musical terms what they mean by that.

[Edited 9/30/12 12:05pm]

^"Crap at the bottom"!? Nonsense, this one's really good, as is "Girl Bros"!

[Edited 9/30/12 12:13pm]

LaceyB said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

The problem with this though is that he is absorbing things that aren't worth absorbing, such as Autotune and many idiotic singers esp. rappers that are about.

They all want to be him and try and copy him (Rihanna/Timberlake), so I don't know why he doesn't be HIMSELF rather than try and imitate them...it's fine when he's imitating cool talented artists like from the 60s and 70s but not half the shit that passes as 'music' today....

The only person I want him to be influenced by are himself or classical musicians such as his early proteges such as Wendy and Lisa who actually influenced him and NOT the other way around....you only have to listen to the excellent 'Wendy and Lisa' debut album to hear what amazing things those girls are capable of..

[Edited 9/28/12 11:18am]

"They all want to be him...." Someone is living an alternate universe where Prince is still relevant. Hardly anyone under 18 has even heard of him (he's the old guy who covered the Foo Fighter's Best of You at the Super Bowl). No one wants to be as irrelevant as he is.

No one.

INCORRECT - You just don't see or recognise his influences. Look at Rihanna, half of her look and sound is trying to imitate Prince, she's even had the Typhoon hairstyle. Her song 'Sexuality' is a total rip off of Controversy. If you haven't heard it, YouTube it. Half of the wannabees on X-Factor are doing Prince songs.

"esp. rappers that are about."

Within a year of Prince's satirical rap song "Dead On It," it was no longer in vogue to dis rappers as "not real musicians" because most of us understood that criticizing their singing rather than praising their rapping was as stupid as criticizing Elton John's piano playing by saying he was a lousy guitarist. It's not the same thing, and rap has proven its staying power, and has developed into a musical genre despite Prince's best efforts to embarrass himself by attempting to display a rare musical talent he clearly does not possess.

Come on...Tiny Tempah, Jay Z, Tinchy Stryder....90% of what is called rapping and R and B is anything but, they are a bloody tone deaf nightmare. Dead On It is one of my fav Prince songs, and proves he is a competent rapper himself.

"talented artists olike from the 60s and 70s"

Being EXTREMELY familiar with the (mostly) crap music of the 50s, 60s and 70s, I'm always amused when I hear this nonsense spouted by the ignorati. There is terrible music from good-looking non-musicians that is popular today. Just like in 1955, 1965, and 1975 (check the charts). There is great popular music now (including stuff that you think isn't music, but only because of the kind of muscal prejudice that Prince himself faced in the early 80s from people like you) just as there was back then. Chuck Berry is a legend. He helped create rock and roll. He also got arrested for putting a camera in the ladies restroom in a club he owned (a convicted pervert!). But his worst offense? "My Ding-A-Ling," which went to #1 in the early 1970s. Batdance went to #1 in 1989. It is a terrible mess, and is never included on compilations for obvious reasons. What did people who were your age then say about those songs (and Berry and Prince) then? The mistake is too assume everything from your youth was great and that the very worst of today is representative of everything from today. And it's been made throughout history (read about what the public thought of Beethoven's "dissonant" symphonies - older people tend to hate the musically-new and dismiss it).

YES there's always been shit about, but the greatness of the greats outshone the bad. When you see programmes reminiscing about the mainstream music of the late 90s and early 00's there are hardly any jewels in there, it's sad.

Every era has its strengths, like now the strength is technology, Iphones, Ipads etc not music. In the 80s music was one of the major strengths reflecting massive social change at the time. Sadly a lot of the music that is mainstream now does not deal with these issues.

Wendy and Lisa are not and never were classical musicians,

even if Lisa had been very briefly "classically trained" as a pianist. Semantics my dear, people that are classicaly trained are often adept at 'classical music' and they weren't trained 'briefly'. And that's a good thing since that skill set adds little in the pop world (and vice versa). No one on Earth, let alone Lisa herself, considers her anything more than a competent pianist and a competent composer of what is often derisively called "film music."

And listen to Wendy sing lead some time in one of the ultra-rare live videos of them. The woman who took my order last night at McDonalds had a more commanding presense - and more charisma - in front of her mic than Wendy ever has.

Some of the best musicians in the world are classically trained. Some of the best in *history* had no such training (Jimi Hendrix). I loved Wendy & Lisa's first heavily-influenced-by-Prince album, and still do. Their second CD (Crap at the Bottom) was so bad it became the only one I have ever returned for a refund. And all of their subsequent attempts were miserable failures. I do wish they had been around Prince for a few more years because it is undeniable that their collaboration coincided with his peak and that peak is something he hasn't even approached since 1996. But their great contribution to Western music since 1987 has been scoring episodes of TV's Heroes. Prince has made very few studio recordings of any note in 15 years, but he hasn't descended so far that he needs to consult with the likes of Wendy and Lisa.

I found it laughable that you think Wendy and Lisa are some kind of Prince clones. If you do your research it appears that they influenced Prince just as much if not more than the other way around, most of the main biographies of him testify to this.

Many of his greatest songs included Wendy and Lisa arrangements and compositions. Do you want me to spell them out?

The reason they didn't do as well after Prince commercially is purely to me a lack of public knowledge of them and marketing. It definately was not a lack of talent and ability. I thought Fruit at the Bottom was great as do many other fans. Even their recent releases such as White Flags of Winter Chimneys still kick it....

The more I learn about music composition and the history of music, the more I realize how little His fans know about either. That's a shame because it lends creedence to the charge that His fans call him a genius without having any ability to explain in musical terms what they mean by that.

Credence not 'creedence', if you spell it right it will give what you say some more of it

Disagree, I know what my ears tell me and will not be brainwashed otherwise!

LaceyB said:

Batdance went to #1 in 1989. It is a terrible mess, and is never included on compilations for obvious reasons.

Way to wave your ignorance around like it's going to help your argument.

Batdance isn't included on compilations only because of licensing issues with WB/DC Comics etc, not because your taste is a reflection of the actual world.

skywalker said:

LaceyB said:

Batdance went to #1 in 1989. It is a terrible mess, and is never included on compilations for obvious reasons.

Way to wave your ignorance around like it's going to help your argument.

Batdance isn't included on compilations only because of licensing issues with WB/DC Comics etc, not because your taste is a reflection of the actual world.

Thank You SkyWalker! LOL...