serpan99 said:

Why no RnR Affair at the Welcome 2 Chicago concerts?

Now this a a very good question....ok, many here didn`t like the song, while some like it....

but Prince actually must like his song, thats why he released it...so why not play one new song

during his concerts....he did it before... this is so typical Prince....

mattmcbr said:

I mean...if someone (anyone) besides Prince had released "Emancipation" in 1995

1996

mattmcbr said:

they would've been on every other issue of Rolling Stone, won multiple awards, and granted early entry into the RNR HOF.

Nonsense.

First of all, no Prince album has received as much promotion as Emancipation. Prince talked to DOZENS of magazines and papers, did more interviews in two days than in all previous years combined. And yet NO ONE bought it. Years later distributors were still trying to unload boxes of that album for $1 a piece and still NO ONE bought it.

And with good reason. Because Emancipation is nothing but Prince mimicing the likes of R Kelly. And why the hell would I want to buy a bad copy of an R Kelly album, when I don't care about that pedophile's music in the first place?

Of course there's more. There's also the tragic death of his child, and the way he did not deal with that. Which was extra painful because it was obvious that Emancipation's release was timed to coincide with his birth. Which also meant that Prince more or less stopped promoting it shortly after the release, failed to play songs from the album in concert,...

It didn't help that EMI collapsed a couple of months after the release (although by that time the album was already gone and forgotten in Prince's mind).

It didn't help that Prince compared himself to slaves, failing to see that his multi-million dollar contract was nothing like slavery.

It didn't help that Prince started of 1996 by showing a ridiculous mini-movie on VH1 in which (yet again) an obsessive fan breaks into Paisley Park. (Prince has been dissing his fans long before he actually started attacking them. Then again, there are so many stories of fan club presidents meeting Prince and resigning in disgust afterwards.)

It didn't help that the first single was a frikkign cover song. "Hey, it's the album I was born to make. There's 36 tracks on it, and the first single is... a song I did not write." Seriously? Of course it was a saccharine ballad, obviously chosen because Prince hoped to ape the success of TMBGITW (something he did again with Rave, that time with a painfully bad rehash of TMBGITW).

It didn't help that the dozens of interviews Prince did were interchangable, because Prince didn't bother answering actual questions but instead babbled about his studies of Egyptian mythology.

It didn't help that Kirk Johnson was all over the record and even co-produced it.

It didn't help that it consists of three interminable records. Half a dozen cover versions, and a sample of his mindbogglingly awful Kamasutra project. How about trimming the fat from those songs instead of stretching them out to 5 minutes and more because you just have to fill three discs with exactly 12 songs and 60 minutes? How about coming up with a strong selection that fits on one disc, and using the rest as B-Sides, EPs, etcetera? (Please note: I do not think that this could have saved Emancipation. It is a thoroughly rubbish record with maybe a handful of okay tracks. But it could have made the record marketable. At 3 CDs Emancipation is a chore, not a listening experience.) This album displayed that Prince needs an editor.

(Of course, three years later he made the same mistake again: shopped a short pop/rock album to major labels, teamed up with Clive Davis -- and then decided to expand the album into an overlong attempt at repeating Santana's hit album, ending up with 18 tracks. And when that was released he immediately announced that his fans would soon be able to buy an "expanded" version of the album with longer versions of the same tracks etc.)

mattmcbr said:

TRC could have been a masterpiece if the "voice" had been left out. The music on that album is truly stunning.

IMHO it's a tedious jazz-rock-funk melange. A pretentious clusterfuck.

mattmcbr said:

I don't believe his impact will truly be felt or appreciated until after he's gone...and that's a shame.

His impact is not that big. Sly Stone is an innovator who changed music. Prince? Magnificent artist who did wonderful things in the 1980s and then wasted his talent on mediocre tripe. Too busy surrounding him with yes men to actually follow through on his gift.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

How come every time someone says anything negative/gives constructive crticism (Bart's post is 100% true btw) about Prince you respond with

BartVanHemelen said:

mattmcbr said:

I mean...if someone (anyone) besides Prince had released "Emancipation" in 1995

1996

IMHO it's a tedious jazz-rock-funk melange. A pretentious clusterfuck.

mattmcbr said:

I don't believe his impact will truly be felt or appreciated until after he's gone...and that's a shame.

His impact is not that big. Sly Stone is an innovator who changed music. Prince? Magnificent artist who did wonderful things in the 1980s and then wasted his talent on mediocre tripe. Too busy surrounding him with yes men to actually follow through on his gift.

Okay so BartVanhemelen, I found your views to be just as profound as mattmcbr. but isn't that contradicting? yup! but hey, you made some valid points and some cynical ones as well. Your comments about Emancipation, although true, you must keep in mind that you cherry picked mattmcbr's statement. He admitted that what he said was an exaggeration later in his paragraph. His point was mainly that alot of albums Prince has put out would have been commercially successful at a much higher rate if someone else had done it. And that I beleive to be true. You can even see it in much of his earlier work in the late 70s and all through the 80s. Since no artist has done a cover of a Prince album (haha) the only examples i can give are songs like "I feel for you." the track only charted in France when Prince released it...Chaka Khan got ahold of it, and BOOM its not only her highest and most successful charting song for her personally, but it charts #1 in the UK for 18 weeks and #1 in Canada for 10 weeks #3 in the US for 25 Weeks and its a top 10 hit in Sweden, Switzerland, and Belium. Nothing Compares 2 U was/is the fourteenth best charting song of all time internationally. (If you want my sources I can send them to you so you dont think i'm making shit up) Anyways if songs like those can reach that high commercially then think about albums as a whole. And this is by no means an insult to Prince, it's just another feather in his hat that he can write some truly great material.

Moving on to TRC I must completely disagree with you here.. TRC was an unbelievable jazz album and an album that showed us that he [Prince] still had more tricks in his bag of tricks. BUT THE F'cking VOICE RUINED THE ALBUM! RUINED IT! TRC=IMHO the biggest dissapointment because it was sooooo goood but sooooo BAD! it was just a huge kick in the kids playpen! Anyways in the end I respectfully disagree with your comment and almost feel like your just playing devils advocate with that one.

Lastly, You said "his impact is not that big" and then mentioned Sly stone in the same statement. you didn't mention the beatles or Elvis you said Sly which leads me to believe that you think his impact is not that big with musicians and the music world but i'm pretty sure mattmcbr was talking about his impact on the masses and if you think Sly (as much as I respect him) has or will have more of an impact on the masses then Prince please send me whatever you are smoking Also you said his impact IS (present tense) not that big, but mattcmbr was saying exactly that also, which is why he said "I don't believe his impact will truly be felt or appreciated until after he's gone...and that's a shame." Anyways thanks for your post I agree with alot of it especially your sum up of emancipation! beautifully done!

dont like it

http://www.drfunkenberry....m=facebook

going back to my skrillex now

After living with it for awhile, I have to say I think it would be 100% better if it wasn't trying to be 80s pop. The 80s synth pop vibe is all wrong. I think it would benefit greatly with a live band sound and real drums. The synths gotta go. If the vocals are gritty, I think the production needs to be a little more gritty too and not 80s cheese. Because as a song, I think it's really good.

SchlomoThaHomo said:

After living with it for awhile, I have to say I think it would be 100% better if it wasn't trying to be 80s pop. The 80s synth pop vibe is all wrong. I think it would benefit greatly with a live band sound and real drums. The synths gotta go. If the vocals are gritty, I think the production needs to be a little more gritty too and not 80s cheese. Because as a song, I think it's really good.

TheEmperorofFunk said:

His point was mainly that alot of albums Prince has put out would have been commercially successful at a much higher rate if someone else had done it. And that I beleive to be true. You can even see it in much of his earlier work in the late 70s and all through the 80s. Since no artist has done a cover of a Prince album (haha) the only examples i can give are songs like "I feel for you." the track only charted in France when Prince released it...Chaka Khan got ahold of it, and BOOM its not only her highest and most successful charting song for her personally, but it charts #1 in the UK for 18 weeks and #1 in Canada for 10 weeks #3 in the US for 25 Weeks and its a top 10 hit in Sweden, Switzerland, and Belium.

Chaka's version is a superior slice of infectious pop music, infused with electro and hip-hop. Back then it sounded like it had been beamed back from the future. Prince's original? Not that good, actually.

Nothing Compares 2 U was/is the fourteenth best charting song of all time internationally.

And nobody gave a damn about that song until Sinead had covered it. How many people knew about The Family, a band that had disbanded by the time their album was released? Moreover, Prince's own version of the song is schmaltzy Vegas crap. (Although I recall him doing a wonderful piano version on the Nude tour, back when Sinead's cover had become a hit.) The reality is that even today to me The Family means "High Fashion" and "Mutiny" and "Screams Of Passion" and "Desire" and even "River Runs Dry" before "Nothing Compares 2 U".

And just claiming the success of Sinead's version on the strength of the song won't do: just as much credit needs to be given to her performance, the production, and certainly the video.

Moving on to TRC I must completely disagree with you here.. TRC was an unbelievable jazz album and an album that showed us that he [Prince] still had more tricks in his bag of tricks. BUT THE F'cking VOICE RUINED THE ALBUM! RUINED IT! TRC=IMHO the biggest dissapointment because it was sooooo goood but sooooo BAD! it was just a huge kick in the kids playpen! Anyways in the end I respectfully disagree with your comment and almost feel like your just playing devils advocate with that one.

Nope, I don't care for TRC. Overrated pretentious "look at me mom I'm doing JAZZ like papa!" rubbish. Part of his "I'm a REAL musician" phase where he suddenly decided that computers were evil, ignoring that some of his best music involved intricate drum computer patterns and layers of keyboards.

Lastly, You said "his impact is not that big" and then mentioned Sly stone in the same statement. you didn't mention the beatles or Elvis you said Sly which leads me to believe that you think his impact is not that big with musicians and the music world but i'm pretty sure mattmcbr was talking about his impact on the masses and if you think Sly (as much as I respect him) has or will have more of an impact on the masses then Prince please send me whatever you are smoking

Fine, then take James Brown or Jimi Hendrix. Or George Clinton. Plenty of people were making Prince-like music before Prince came along *cough* Rick James *cough*, and that's simply because they'd been listening to the same music Prince had. I seriously think that Prince's music is not revolutionary; he is not an innovator.

And I'm sorry, but he is nowhere near Beatles or Elvis. Those guys sold (and still sell) truckloads of records; Prince not so much. Post-Purple Rain, his only album that sold 5+ million was D&P, which was arguably a record designed to generate hits. And then he still needed to tour it all over the world for nearly a year. (Which is why him signing the infamous $100 million contract just does not make sense, and can only be explained as him utterly ignoring the advice of his close associates and going on a massive ego trip.)

Also you said his impact IS (present tense) not that big, but mattcmbr was saying exactly that also, which is why he said "I don't believe his impact will truly be felt or appreciated until after he's gone...and that's a shame."

I'm sorry, but if his influence isn't clear two decades after his heyday, when will it be? He is an enormously talented man, but what did he change in music? Prince produced some bafflingly original pop records in the 1980s, but it's not like he did not have any competition.

It is off topic, Bart.

But kind of everybody names Prince as an influence....and not Sly...sorry....of course are sly and the family stone innovators like james Brown...but Prince is too....

Just some people who name as an influence....Frank Ocean, a great new artist, Beyonce, Alicia keys, Britney, Mary J Blige, Justin Timberlake, Muse just covered 2 days ago Sign O the times, David Guetta, solveig, Lady Gaga, David Grohl from Nirvana, Goyte, Timberland, Lenny Kravitz, Pharell, Outkast, Questlove, Tupac, p.diddy, Maxwell, beck, Taio cruz, D´Angelo...i could go on and on....so his influence is huge...

Brian May about Prince:

Wow! love this in ur signature....

Brian May about Prince:

linus4000 said:

It is off topic, Bart.

But kind of everybody names Prince as an influence....and not Sly...sorry....of course are sly and the family stone innovators like james Brown...but Prince is too....

Just some people who name as an influence....Frank Ocean, a great new artist, Beyonce, Alicia keys, Britney, Mary J Blige, Justin Timberlake, Muse just covered 2 days ago Sign O the times, David Guetta, solveig, Lady Gaga, David Grohl from Nirvana, Goyte, Timberland, Lenny Kravitz, Pharell, Outkast, Questlove, Tupac, p.diddy, Maxwell, beck, Taio cruz, D´Angelo...i could go on and on....so his influence is huge...

Brian May about Prince:

It's impossible to find reasons for a lot of what Prince does, but it's all individual, and it's all HIM. Within his incredibly unusual stage persona, he produces, as if out of a hat, choreography, vocal gymnastics, sensuality, dazzling keyboard playing, and world-class guitar-playing - all splashed out with an apparently careless bravura, and much of it treading the dangerous line between the planned and the spontaneous. You could not really ask for better value for money ... the guy is every inch the real thing - a thing of quicksilver and gossamer, and pure rhythm - a free spirit of Rock.

Yes, and linus4000's list is really just SOME of the artist who were influenced by Prince. Really the list can go on and on, I can name more off the top of head. What's amazing is how varied the artists are who cite Prince as an influence/idol, all different genres.

Not feeling it. Then again, I never liked Take Me With U, or Raspberry Beret then, or now.

Prince is still my favorite artist of all time, but once was enough with this song.

I like the song.

it wasn't played live because it's crap, lyrics are fine but overall it is crap. I cannot beleive that people are diggin' it, has he dropped your expectations of him that low? !. It's a track he needs to forget about ASAP and park it with Rich Friends, Hot Summer, etc.

I'm sick of these one-song premieres that don't end up on albums because they just aren't that good. Aside from Xtra Loveable, they're all very middle of the road and average. They may not be the same stylistically but they all feel very similar to one another thanks to the bland and lifeless way Prince produces them.

Somewhere in a thread BartVanHemelen said, "(Emancipation) is a thoroughly rubbish record with maybe a handful of okay tracks."

Mr Bart Van Hemelen, your confidence is misplaced. Emancipation is a record which will outlive us and our grandchildren. It's a record from a musical-cultural icon with enough of an aura of mysticism to be talked about 200 years from now, maybe more. Yes, it didn't sell in the artist's lifetime. Big deal. Van Gogh didn't go for much in his lifetime, critically or commercially.

it wasn't played live because it's crap, lyrics are fine but overall it is crap. I cannot beleive that people are diggin' it, has he dropped your expectations of him that low? !. It's a track he needs to forget about ASAP and park it with Rich Friends, Hot Summer, etc.

Funkyalien said:

Somewhere in a thread BartVanHemelen said, "(Emancipation) is a thoroughly rubbish record with maybe a handful of okay tracks."

Mr Bart Van Hemelen, your confidence is misplaced. Emancipation is a record which will outlive us and our grandchildren. It's a record from a musical-cultural icon with enough of an aura of mysticism to be talked about 200 years from now, maybe more. Yes, it didn't sell in the artist's lifetime. Big deal. Van Gogh didn't go for much in his lifetime, critically or commercially.

Wow, you just compared Emancipation to Van Gogh. There is no coming back from that as a human being.

Gohi said:

Rightly said:

Gohi said:

Wow, you just compared Emancipation to Van Gogh. There is no coming back from that as a human being.

Lol.

The song is nice Give the guy a break

nursev said:

The song is nice Give the guy a break

Nice? It's more bland and inoffensive. That's the last thing I wanna hear from Prince. I'd rather he be mindblowingly awful like Purple & Gold, to be honest. Okay maybe not.

nursev said:

The song is nice Give the guy a break

A break? For how many decades?

I love the song. It makes me happy when I listen to it. The lyrics are positive and it just flows so well. I listen to it A LOT and like it more each time. Oddly, I didn't come to the Org first to see what others thought of it, kind of like how Prince's music used to be so much more personal and enjoyable BEFORE having to hear so many fucking opinions about it.

s is

WonderU said:

I love the song. It makes me happy when I listen to it. The lyrics are positive and it just flows so well. I listen to it A LOT and like it more each time. Oddly, I didn't come to the Org first to see what others thought of it, kind of like how Prince's music used to be so much more personal and enjoyable BEFORE having to hear so many fucking opinions about it.

this is a forum what did you expect, no opinions? general consensus?

BartVanHemelen said:

TheEmperorofFunk said:

His point was mainly that alot of albums Prince has put out would have been commercially successful at a much higher rate if someone else had done it. And that I beleive to be true. You can even see it in much of his earlier work in the late 70s and all through the 80s. Since no artist has done a cover of a Prince album (haha) the only examples i can give are songs like "I feel for you." the track only charted in France when Prince released it...Chaka Khan got ahold of it, and BOOM its not only her highest and most successful charting song for her personally, but it charts #1 in the UK for 18 weeks and #1 in Canada for 10 weeks #3 in the US for 25 Weeks and its a top 10 hit in Sweden, Switzerland, and Belium.

Chaka's version is a superior slice of infectious pop music, infused with electro and hip-hop. Back then it sounded like it had been beamed back from the future. Prince's original? Not that good, actually.

Fine, then take James Brown or Jimi Hendrix. Or George Clinton. Plenty of people were making Prince-like music before Prince came along *cough* Rick James *cough*, and that's simply because they'd been listening to the same music Prince had. I seriously think that Prince's music is not revolutionary; he is not an innovator.

And I'm sorry, but he is nowhere near Beatles or Elvis. Those guys sold (and still sell) truckloads of records; Prince not so much. Post-Purple Rain, his only album that sold 5+ million was D&P, which was arguably a record designed to generate hits. And then he still needed to tour it all over the world for nearly a year. (Which is why him signing the infamous $100 million contract just does not make sense, and can only be explained as him utterly ignoring the advice of his close associates and going on a massive ego trip.)

Also you said his impact IS (present tense) not that big, but mattcmbr was saying exactly that also, which is why he said "I don't believe his impact will truly be felt or appreciated until after he's gone...and that's a shame."

I'm sorry, but if his influence isn't clear two decades after his heyday, when will it be? He is an enormously talented man, but what did he change in music? Prince produced some bafflingly original pop records in the 1980s, but it's not like he did not have any competition.

Prince is nowhere near Elvis as an innovator? There are few who believe that Elvis even had a small hand in writing songs. He was given writing credit as hype, and when he laid down his guitar tracks, laughter ensued. When he would go out for Peanut butter and fried banana sandwiches, real musicians overdubbed the parts. Elvis was like Whitney Houston, just a singer and entertainer. Whitney probably did as much or more than Elvis in the studio.

To compare Prince to Elvis is simply INSANE. R&R love affair is not going to be an all time classic, but it is a nice little song. To simply trash Emancipation as a whole is also insane. It didn't turn out to be the album he was born to make, and it was well overhyped, but it is not a bad album.

When somebody has hated every Prince song since the Lovesexy album, it is shocking they would

spend so much time on a fan site.

Of course, I am different. I really like and mostly love his recent studio output, but hate his live work from 2005 on. Too many people hyping the crowd, too many covers and song snippets.

Bart just schooled everyone in here with straight up facts. Great posting. You losers should be thanking him for his input, not whining for a ban.

I love the meme that every Prince album would be a masterpiece "if it was released by..." when in reality, it's the opposite. How often is Prince lauded with praise simply because of his name? Remember those glowing reviews for Musicology? Would anyone in their right mind now rep that digital pile of shit?

That said, I do love the song Slave. I can't come up with another off those three discs that's worth a damn tho.