Yeah. Quality is good as per, but it's a jumble of things I'm not really interested in. The S&V series lost their appeal many volumes ago.

I agree - not alot on there just stuff we have heard before via other means on the WWW - an odd mix of items really. But I shall give it a whirl all the same as a completist.

Absolutely agree with TheDigitalGardener, the S&V series are just a pale reflection of what they were.

But the funniest thing is that the guys had the guts to include a paragraph in the liner notes trying to indoctrinate the 'younger fans' making them think that downloaded files are not the same thing as a pressed disc.

It totally looks like Udo's usual posts...

I just hope new fans won't heed their bullshit and this 'strategy' will make them lose more customers instead of regaining some.

vitriol said:

It totally looks like Udo's usual posts...

[img:$uid]http://www.udokier.de/imgs/udokier098.jpg[/img:$uid]

^ ???????????????

^Why 'off a cliff'?

NOW's when it can get really interesting.

Well, this is the text in question:

“Some Facts About Sabotage Records”

This goes out to all the younger Prince fans and to those who consume “free” copies of CDs originally pressed by us:

• We are the longest-existing Prince label in the world.
• Not even Prince himself has put out more releases on factory-pressed CDs than we have to this day.
• Our liner notes and studio mastering typically leave all other labels’ attempts far behind.

Whether you just copy our work or you support our mission by actually paying for our original product:

• Here at Sabotage we are proud of delivering rehearsals, concerts, aftershows, media appearances, demos and outtakes from 1976 to 2012. You name it, we have it …and in top-notch quality

Thank you very much for your continuous support, folks. Only pressed CDs can be collectibles.

PS: Like everyone else, we dig thedigitalgarden.org, regardless of whether they continue to rely on cheap CD-Rs or even on cloned files alone when trying to understand and grade our output.

Still, wouldn’t it be in everyone’s interest if they returned to judging a little more profoundly, based on our original CDs with all the details provided through SAB’s substantial booklets and extensive liner notes? And by the way, shouldn’t Volumes 6 to 10 from Sabotage’s complete 40-disc 20TEN tour edition be included in their files by now, almost two years after the events?

Peace out.

What do y’all think? Are these guys crazy or what?

vitriol said:

• Our liner notes and studio mastering typically leave all other labels’ attempts far behind.

Too funny!!

vitriol said:

Well, this is the text in question:

“Some Facts About Sabotage Records”

This goes out to all the younger Prince fans and to those who consume “free” copies of CDs originally pressed by us:

• We are the longest-existing Prince label in the world.
• Not even Prince himself has put out more releases on factory-pressed CDs than we have to this day.
• Our liner notes and studio mastering typically leave all other labels’ attempts far behind.

Whether you just copy our work or you support our mission by actually paying for our original product:

• Here at Sabotage we are proud of delivering rehearsals, concerts, aftershows, media appearances, demos and outtakes from 1976 to 2012. You name it, we have it …and in top-notch quality

Thank you very much for your continuous support, folks. Only pressed CDs can be collectibles.

PS: Like everyone else, we dig thedigitalgarden.org, regardless of whether they continue to rely on cheap CD-Rs or even on cloned files alone when trying to understand and grade our output.

Still, wouldn’t it be in everyone’s interest if they returned to judging a little more profoundly, based on our original CDs with all the details provided through SAB’s substantial booklets and extensive liner notes? And by the way, shouldn’t Volumes 6 to 10 from Sabotage’s complete 40-disc 20TEN tour edition be included in their files by now, almost two years after the events?

Peace out.

What do y’all think? Are these guys crazy or what?

Very ballsy and also complete bullshit on Sabotage's part. I am currently enjoying downloading the majority of their catalog, ALL for free, ALL in lossless FLAC files so don't hand me the bullshit about pressed CD's sounding better than CDR's. The files are lossless.

Hope Sabotage enjoys all the releases I "Stole" from them.

They keep putting out shit like "Sound & Vision 13" and putting obvious BS like this in their liner notes, I'll be rooting for the PaisleyPolice to shut them down.

vitriol said:

Well, this is the text in question:

“Some Facts About Sabotage Records”

This goes out to all the younger Prince fans and to those who consume “free” copies of CDs originally pressed by us:

• We are the longest-existing Prince label in the world.
• Not even Prince himself has put out more releases on factory-pressed CDs than we have to this day.
• Our liner notes and studio mastering typically leave all other labels’ attempts far behind.

Whether you just copy our work or you support our mission by actually paying for our original product:

• Here at Sabotage we are proud of delivering rehearsals, concerts, aftershows, media appearances, demos and outtakes from 1976 to 2012. You name it, we have it …and in top-notch quality

Thank you very much for your continuous support, folks. Only pressed CDs can be collectibles.

PS: Like everyone else, we dig thedigitalgarden.org, regardless of whether they continue to rely on cheap CD-Rs or even on cloned files alone when trying to understand and grade our output.

Still, wouldn’t it be in everyone’s interest if they returned to judging a little more profoundly, based on our original CDs with all the details provided through SAB’s substantial booklets and extensive liner notes? And by the way, shouldn’t Volumes 6 to 10 from Sabotage’s complete 40-disc 20TEN tour edition be included in their files by now, almost two years after the events?

Peace out.

What do y’all think? Are these guys crazy or what?

Goodness me.

Needless to say, I didn't pay a cent for this material...

You know, I'm helpless: I used those lossless 'cloned' files that once burnt onto a lousy CDr they sound... er... exactly the same as the factory-press matrix it came from.

Wow, big words on their part. I used to buy everything they released in the past before I knew about fan releases. Then after I found out about how they jack fan releases, I was done with them. The sad thing is the only defense they can come up with is that they are collectables? Boots don't draw in hardly what they used to during a resale these days.

KingSausage said:

This one looks like a real stinker. Has anyone heard it yet?

Why bicker about the outside when the music counts?

Listen!

(yes, you can download stuff un you cannot wait for your CD's)

vitriol said:

But the funniest thing is that the guys had the guts to include a paragraph in the liner notes trying to indoctrinate the 'younger fans' making them think that downloaded files are not the same thing as a pressed disc.

It totally looks like Udo's usual posts...

Two things:

If you cannot discern the experience of an mp3/flac from the actual disc, booklet, etc then of course you think life is funny.

All of your conclusions are baseless and for your own account. I was not involved in those, I did never ever made you think like that and it's obviously entirely false.

As intelligent arguments with you are moot I will repeat:

Download whatever you want but do not ever complain about a free gift, because that is what it is (yes you are right).

But if you buy stuff, feel free to enjoy that stuff and do not feel restrained or whatever when you have real reasons to suggest improvements or even complain.

I know the crisis is hitting harder -in certain areas- than shown in the mainstream media so please do not read all this as an advertisement to buy. It's you wallet, your experience.

I'd rather have you buy silver & gold now...

vitriol said:

^ ???????????????

Wrong pic...

And even then: you won't post yours.

udo said:

udo said:

vitriol said:

But the funniest thing is that the guys had the guts to include a paragraph in the liner notes trying to indoctrinate the 'younger fans' making them think that downloaded files are not the same thing as a pressed disc.

It totally looks like Udo's usual posts...

Two things:

If you cannot discern the experience of an mp3/flac from the actual disc, booklet, etc then of course you think life is funny.

All of your conclusions are baseless and for your own account. I was not involved in those, I did never ever made you think like that and it's obviously entirely false.

As intelligent arguments with you are moot I will repeat:

Download whatever you want but do not ever complain about a free gift, because that is what it is (yes you are right).

But if you buy stuff, feel free to enjoy that stuff and do not feel restrained or whatever when you have real reasons to suggest improvements or even complain.

I know the crisis is hitting harder -in certain areas- than shown in the mainstream media so please do not read all this as an advertisement to buy. It's you wallet, your experience.

I'd rather have you buy silver & gold now...

Another two things:

- I NEVER meant you were involved in anything. I just said that Sabotage's delirium tremens at the time of writing that text seems similar to the usual bullshit you posts about pressed vs. digital.

- So... you are trying to imply that if I extract the audio from one of those Sabotage better-than-anything pressed discs, encode it to flac, then decode it back to wav to be burnt onto a cd-r the sound of the cd-r would be inferior to the original PAYABLE pressed disc... is that it?

IS THAT IT....?

vitriol said:

Another two things:

- I NEVER meant you were involved in anything. I just said that Sabotage's delirium tremens at the time of writing that text seems similar to the usual bullshit you posts about pressed vs. digital.

Calling it bullshit without arguments is bullshit.

- So... you are trying to imply that if I extract the audio from one of those Sabotage better-than-anything pressed discs, encode it to flac, then decode it back to wav to be burnt onto a cd-r the sound of the cd-r would be inferior to the original PAYABLE pressed disc... is that it?

IS THAT IT....?

WRONG.

I wrote about 'experience'. I.e.: that is more than just the integrity of the ones and zeroes encoded on the media (be it CD, CD-R, harddisc or flash card).

This means I also include the jewel case, the booklet with myriads of information, the information on the inlays, the print on the discs, ability to put them on the shelf, the idea of rearding people for that service, etc as part of the experience.

All this is much broader than the digital realm you pointed out.

I wrote you cannot complain if you download a free gift.

I wrote you can complain if you paid for the real deal.

I am not writing you must buy.

I even wrote I'd rather have you buy gold & silver now. (if you're halfway aware of how they are robbing you...)

I hope that's clear now.

So, you agree that the LISTENING EXPERIENCE is EXACTLY the same, right?

That's all I wanted.

Hell, the "information" experience is the same, too... The free lossless copy I downloaded came with scans of the entire booklet!

vitriol said:

So, you agree that the LISTENING EXPERIENCE is EXACTLY the same, right?

That's all I wanted.

People do not just experience the listening experience.

That can be found from the remarks they post everywhere because they did not get the background information in the booklet.

They never 'just listen' and shut up. (You even don't do that when a bona fide Prince album comes out the legal way.)

So they do not notice why a track sounds different from the first one, or maybe not as perfect as on another release, or why the track is even there.

And then they write stuff about how shitty it looks when they mean the supposed listening experience you mention.

Downloaders lack a bit of the experience.

Did you buy gold & silver?

It might be out of fashion, it could seem zero practical these days - but nothing can beat the experience of picking up a disc from your shelve and listening to it while looking at the artwork and reading the booklet. I don't have moral issues at all, and I do download stuff as much as I purchase factory pressed discs. It might be a placebo ... Or it might be I'm just too old school, but regardless of contents I always enjoy way better the pressed discs over the d/l stuff.

udo said:

This means I also include the jewel case, the booklet with myriads of information, the information on the inlays,

Oh right, their wellknown extensive linernotes!! Loads of bullshit about how much better than the free labels they claim they are!

And of course the usefull info they stole from Princevault and other online resources. (just like they steal almost everything to repack and sell).

I really need a jewelcase for that, so I can put it on the shelve collecting dust. Right.

vc40 said:

udo said:

This means I also include the jewel case, the booklet with myriads of information, the information on the inlays,

Oh right, their wellknown extensive linernotes!! Loads of bullshit about how much better than the free labels they claim they are!

And of course the usefull info they stole from Princevault and other online resources. (just like they steal almost everything to repack and sell).

I really need a jewelcase for that, so I can put it on the shelve collecting dust. Right.

You still are not barred by my from downloading.

I just wrote, and I will repeat, that if you donwload you get a free gift and you CAN NOT EVER complain. (what the topic is all about...!)

You mock whatever you want until the free labels provide liner notes on a consistent basis.

So please use your time wisely, go download some more now.

udo said:

if you donwload you get a free gift and you CAN NOT EVER complain.

But it wasn't intended as a free gift, so I can complain as much as I want to.

Hell, there are even people complaining about free releases, so what's the difference?

[Edited 9/15/12 7:43am]

udo said:

vitriol said:

So, you agree that the LISTENING EXPERIENCE is EXACTLY the same, right?

That's all I wanted.

People do not just experience the listening experience.

That can be found from the remarks they post everywhere because they did not get the background information in the booklet.

They never 'just listen' and shut up. (You even don't do that when a bona fide Prince album comes out the legal way.)

So they do not notice why a track sounds different from the first one, or maybe not as perfect as on another release, or why the track is even there.

And then they write stuff about how shitty it looks when they mean the supposed listening experience you mention.

Downloaders lack a bit of the experience.

Did you buy gold & silver?

As expected, MO' BULLSHIT.