udo said:

vc40 said:

Oh right, their wellknown extensive linernotes!! Loads of bullshit about how much better than the free labels they claim they are!

And of course the usefull info they stole from Princevault and other online resources. (just like they steal almost everything to repack and sell).

I really need a jewelcase for that, so I can put it on the shelve collecting dust. Right.

You still are not barred by my from downloading.

I just wrote, and I will repeat, that if you donwload you get a free gift and you CAN NOT EVER complain. (what the topic is all about...!)

You mock whatever you want until the free labels provide liner notes on a consistent basis.

So please use your time wisely, go download some more now.

So.... we should pay a crazy lot of money for a Sabotage pressed disc JUST TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW BAD IT IS?

And since when do free releases not include liner notes on a consistent basis (AND ORIGINAL ONES, NOT COPIED VERBATIM FROM PRINCEVAULT OR THE VAULT)?

Both Sabotage and Eye should know a fair bit about free releases since each label stole a good bunch of them and SOLD them as their own work.

To say what you're saying, you rather remain silent: you just seem to smear yourself in your own shit. You're ridiculizing yourself. More than usual, I mean.

[Edited 9/15/12 7:01am]

djThunderfunk said:

Hell, the "information" experience is the same, too... The free lossless copy I downloaded came with scans of the entire booklet!

Exactly, most of the boots I download come with artwork so you get either scans or can print out everything including in many cases labels to sticker the CDR's with so they look like the pressed discs.

I will say Sabotage is not nearly as bad as Eye when it comes to blatent stealing of free releases. All it does is piss off the people who take the time to make these free releases (and they have shared some GREAT stuff the last few years) and the fan community is the one that suffers. The free releases have been cut way down because of Eye's practices, so while they repackage stuff and charge for it like a bunch of dicks, we suffer with not as much free stuff being shared/put into circulation for the first time.

That still doesn't mean I don't enjoy downloading the entire Sabotage catalog for free! It's fun to "steal" already stolen stuff then watch the thieves bitch in liner notes about it.

MikeA said:

The free releases have been cut way down because of Eye's practices

Now you mention it, I haven't seen any 4DF or FBG releases online for quite some months now....

I don't know about FBG, but I've even heard that the world might not see a 4DF release ever again.

This is what we've got in exchange for the pressing labels stealing releases and many fans even supporting that with their money.

vitriol said:

udo said:

Downloaders lack a bit of the experience.

Did you buy gold & silver?

As expected, MO' BULLSHIT.

As expected: so much for argumentation.

Now go buy gold & silver and do some downloads when you get home.

I made my point. Nothing more to add.

vitriol said:

I don't know about FBG, but I've even heard that the world might not see a 4DF release ever again.

This is what we've got in exchange for the pressing labels stealing releases and many fans even supporting that with their money.

So you are trying to make a causation here?

I see merely a correlation.

No more in this thread. You explain elsewhere.

^Why 'no more in this thread'?

Are you feeling defeated?

udo said:

vitriol said:

As expected, MO' BULLSHIT.

As expected: so much for argumentation.

Now go buy gold & silver and do some downloads when you get home.

I made my point. Nothing more to add.

And what do you want me to argue?

Doesn't this thread have enough responses that could make you think a little bit about how ludicrous your posts sound?

So, the experience is incomplete without the printed artwork and the jewel case, right?

Guy, there must be many circuses in need of clowns. You should apply.

^

vitriol said:

I don't know about FBG, but I've even heard that the world might not see a 4DF release ever again.

This is what we've got in exchange for the pressing labels stealing releases and many fans even supporting that with their money.

I think that is an extreme reaction... and it's not thought out very well.

Really? 4DF is mad because the pressed labels are stealing their work, printing it, and selling it without giving 4DF credit? So, in response to this 4DF takes their ball and goes home?

Come on. They're getting mad at Eye and Sabotage for doing what they've always done: making a profit off other peoples' work.

It's awesome that 4DF & FBG put so much effort in to obtaining better sources, cleaning up rough material, and making it available to the fanbase for free. Why should they stop just because the profiteers do with their work the same they've always done?

The real way to get back at the bootleggers is to KEEP making free releases, make sure every free copy includes info that spells out exactly what they are doing for the fans and exactly what the boot labels are doing to screw them and the fans... more and more people will stop buying the pressed discs in favor of the free ones.

For the few who still prefer to buy pressed discs, more power to them. Must be nice to have so much disposable income. Just know that what you're paying for is the luxury of a pressed disc. That is all. Period. You won't get better quality in any way. It won't sound better, it won't have better info, etc... And in MANY cases, it only sounds as good as it does because of the work other fans put into it.. FOR FREE.

"Knowledge is power!"

Knowledge is power?

You don't seem to have much knowledge about the world of free releases if all you can do is conclude that '4DF takes their ball and goes home'...

No one in the free releases world has 'releasing bootlegs' as their main occupation.

They have to be continuously stealing from their worktime, family time and leissure time so that you can get a great finished product by just clicking a couple of links.

Some sources can be really hard to fix, mainly when it comes to 4DF and their special attention to detail. That's why they were asked more than once to fix the sources no one could.

Artworks don't grow on trees. You need a skilled person to do them.

Liner notes and other details have to be worked out (though some had the guts to claim there are no liner notes on free releases).

Sometimes, even some collectors submit unseen pics for the covers.

That makes a team of people working for their and your listening pleasure.

Sometimes you can get fed up with other people profiting from the work you contributed to for free while, maybe, you postponed personal or family things to get it done on time.

I can perfectly understand the point. And I don't think it's a question of saying 'this is MY ball and I'm taking it home so that YOU can't keep on playing'.

Since the beginning of the year, when we were graced with the release of those astounding Parade Demos we haven't seen another 4DF release, if I'm not mistaken.

But that one has already been stolen (and chopped!) by Eye Records for their new UNNCECESSARY COLLECTION of tracks that had been already shared for free.

Honestly, if we never saw a 4DF release again I'd never jump on the guys' back and would try to understand their point.

In any case, remember that I said that the world MIGHT NOT see a new 4DF release. That's what I heard through the grapevine.

^'Might not' is a 50% of 'Might see'.

Again, I'm just repeating what I heard.

vitriol said:

Knowledge is power?

You don't seem to have much knowledge about the world of free releases if all you can do is conclude that '4DF takes their ball and goes home'...

No one in the free releases world has 'releasing bootlegs' as their main occupation.

They have to be continuously stealing from their worktime, family time and leissure time so that you can get a great finished product by just clicking a couple of links.

Some sources can be really hard to fix, mainly when it comes to 4DF and their special attention to detail. That's why they were asked more than once to fix the sources no one could.

Artworks don't grow on trees. You need a skilled person to do them.

Liner notes and other details have to be worked out (though some had the guts to claim there are no liner notes on free releases).

Sometimes, even some collectors submit unseen pics for the covers.

That makes a team of people working for their and your listening pleasure.

Sometimes you can get fed up with other people profiting from the work you contributed to for free while, maybe, you postponed personal or family things to get it done on time.

I can perfectly understand the point. And I don't think it's a question of saying 'this is MY ball and I'm taking it home so that YOU can't keep on playing'.

Since the beginning of the year, when we were graced with the release of those astounding Parade Demos we haven't seen another 4DF release, if I'm not mistaken.

But that one has already been stolen (and chopped!) by Eye Records for their new UNNCECESSARY COLLECTION of tracks that had been already shared for free.

Honestly, if we never saw a 4DF release again I'd never jump on the guys' back and would try to understand their point.

In any case, remember that I said that the world MIGHT NOT see a new 4DF release. That's what I heard through the grapevine.

Relax... I'm pretty sure we're on the same side...

I love and totally appreciate what 4DF has done. The hard work they put into their releases is obvious. It's Love!

I get the frustration... but, really, I must stand by my point: To be surprised that the work is being co-opted by the pressed labels is short sighted. Of course that's what they do.

To let it sour the awesome work they've put into their free releases... sorry, I think it's pointless.

On any thread here at the org that brings up the whole free label vs pressed disc debate, the truth is repeated again and again, and it's obvious the majority of the fanbase knows what is going on.

Why let the fact that bootleggers are going to lift the tracks and take credit for the work, or the fact that a (small) segment of the bootleg collectors will prefer the pressed discs, affect what they are doing in any way.

We know how much work they do and we appreciate it and most of us laugh at the pressed labels and praise the free labels. Why stop?

[Edited 9/15/12 23:37pm]

It would be hilarious if one of the free labels tagged one of their releases with a hidden message...

Something like "Sabotage stole this from 4DF" or "Eye Records lifted this from FBG". Something like that.

Then, wait till the inevitable happens, spread the word so everyone knows, sit back and giggle.