thebanishedone said:

I don't think Prince replaces band members when there are some problems but i do think he is lazy and thats why keeps Shelby.

Well, seeing how many musicians/artists have said Prince expects the best from the musicians/artists he works with, I can't agree on your last comment, especially when it is 'common knowledge' that he has changed band members often, throughout his music career. How could you have missed that? If a musician/artist doesn't play to your taste, then you have the freedom and option to seek what flavors satisfy your music taste buds.

As fans, especially those (including myself) who are not skilled musicians/artists, nor blessed with a 30-year plus music career of a musician/artist, who has graced a plethora of stages across the globe, with his creative, music skills, and introduced his minneapolis sound to the rest of the world, well, neither you or I can say what type of talent/sound/energy/presentation he seeks in musicians/artists he hires, as band members, as well as, musicians/artists he invites as guests to perform with him on stage. I'll say this though, it was quite obvious during many of his shows, the contentment he displayed with Shelby J's talent and energy on stage, and it is not hard to notice the respected rapport between them as bandmates/friends.

So although you may not understand or like that she is part of his band, doesn't mean she hasn't earned her right to be part of his band by her own musical gifts/talent, because we do not know the talent/creativity/energy/presentation Prince looks for when he hires musicians/artists, as band members or to perform on stage with him as guests. We of course, have our right to express our difference of opinion(s), which I do respect your opinion on it, and your right to express it, even if I don't fully agree with what you expressed in your posts.

[Edited 9/5/12 16:45pm]

Some people don't understand it is a business and believe its all personal. Many bands change because another musician will come along and simply offer someone more money, better gig. Hired guns do not have any loyalty. If Lenny Kravitz was going on tour and wanted Blackwell, if he offered him more $$$. Blackwell would be down the road.

That why some of Ps band (Brown Mark) skipped. He simply wasn't making enough dough and figured he could manage and make more. And when someone is #1 hired guns will get more offers and be more likely to skip because they start feeling they are worthy of more.

You think it's all personal. Like Prince doesn't like someones style or they start fucking up. That's usually not the case. If Prince disbands after a arena tour and takes months off, someone may go. Any down time and they may skip onto other gigs. It's called the entertainment business but many focus on the entertainment aspect but it is a business. People leaving, not all on Prince.

thebanishedone said:

I respect what you say and i think Shelby can sing ,i think she is in a band too long and as time goes ,she gets a more prominent roles.i think Prince should get brand new band,half of a band could be rock musicians and another half funk musicians.that would be interesting.or maybe he should tour with some supergroup.i don't think he chalenges himself at all.i think he is bored and have a writers block.part of it is due to people who surround him.and how many times you can sing Purple Rain and really mean it?

I still would like to see what he could record with what he currently has. I really disliked Shelby's style at first but sometimes that bold sound she has imo works real good. Too much off anything other that Prince will always draw negativity from his fans. Too many Sly/Larry covers, too much DougE Fresh on the NPS tour, etc will always be disliked as people just want more Prince. But I can see a place for them. It is the funk and I like to compare to George Clinton who uses musicians of various degrees of talent and does so very well.

thebanishedone said:

I respect what you say and i think Shelby can sing ,i think she is in a band too long and as time goes ,she gets a more prominent roles.i think Prince should get brand new band,half of a band could be rock musicians and another half funk musicians.that would be interesting.or maybe he should tour with some supergroup.i don't think he chalenges himself at all.i think he is bored and have a writers block.part of it is due to people who surround him.and how many times you can sing Purple Rain and really mean it?

Well, fans don't get to decide who gets hired or fired in the man's band now do we? That's not our job. She had her solo career performing with established/known musicians/artists, before joining Prince's band, and continues to have a solo career outside of the NPG. Again, if Prince is satisfied with her singing talent, and she provides the 'sound' he is looking for at the end of the day, the 'final' decision is left up to him.

Also, at the end of the day, it's personal choice really for any fan, because no one is forced by any musician/artist to support an artist's music, so it's really not that difficult for you to solve your own problem. Especially if you may, (not saying you do) hold some possible form of fantasized entitlement, believing you could choose or place a 'limit' on how long an artist can perform or be a member of your favorite musician's band.

On another note, who is to say his current band can't do funk and rock? Remember, it's already been announced that he has a guest musician on this Chicago tour, as he had on the last tour, so unless you haven't been paying attention, he's been inviting other musicians/artists, changing band members since the Musicology tour, and various shows after that. Oh and just to add, for him not to sing his classic 'Purple Rain' at an arena show, would be kind of odd, in a way, especially because it seems many fans actually expect to hear that particular song of his at an arena show.

[Edited 9/5/12 19:42pm]

2elijah said:

thebanishedone said:

I respect what you say and i think Shelby can sing ,i think she is in a band too long and as time goes ,she gets a more prominent roles.i think Prince should get brand new band,half of a band could be rock musicians and another half funk musicians.that would be interesting.or maybe he should tour with some supergroup.i don't think he chalenges himself at all.i think he is bored and have a writers block.part of it is due to people who surround him.and how many times you can sing Purple Rain and really mean it?

Well, fans don't get to decide who gets hired or fired in the man's band now do we? That's not our job. She had her solo career performing with established/known musicians/artists, before joining Prince's band, and continues to have a solo career outside of the NPG. Again, if Prince is satisfied with her singing talent, and she provides the 'sound' he is looking for at the end of the day, the 'final' decision is left up to him.

Also, at the end of the day, it's personal choice really for any fan, because no one is forced by any musician/artist to support an artist's music, so it's really not that difficult for you to solve your own problem. Especially if you may, (not saying you do) hold some possible form of fantasized entitlement, believing you could choose or place a 'limit' on how long an artist can perform or be a member of your favorite musician's band.

On another note, who is to say his current band can't do funk and rock? Remember, it's already been announced that he has a guest musician on this Chicago tour, as he had on the last tour, so unless you haven't been paying attention, he's been inviting other musicians/artists, changing band members since the Musicology tour, and various shows after that. Oh and just to add, for him not to sing his classic 'Purple Rain' at an arena show, would be kind of odd, in a way, especially because it seems to be a song expected by many fans, at an arena show.

[Edited 9/5/12 18:29pm]

Totally agree with you!

Your posts are spot on and I concur completely!

2elijah; you come with love and respect, most of all Understanding! LOVE!

EyeJester7 said:

2elijah said:

Well, fans don't get to decide who gets hired or fired in the man's band now do we? That's not our job. She had her solo career performing with established/known musicians/artists, before joining Prince's band, and continues to have a solo career outside of the NPG. Again, if Prince is satisfied with her singing talent, and she provides the 'sound' he is looking for at the end of the day, the 'final' decision is left up to him.

Also, at the end of the day, it's personal choice really for any fan, because no one is forced by any musician/artist to support an artist's music, so it's really not that difficult for you to solve your own problem. Especially if you may, (not saying you do) hold some possible form of fantasized entitlement, believing you could choose or place a 'limit' on how long an artist can perform or be a member of your favorite musician's band.

On another note, who is to say his current band can't do funk and rock? Remember, it's already been announced that he has a guest musician on this Chicago tour, as he had on the last tour, so unless you haven't been paying attention, he's been inviting other musicians/artists, changing band members since the Musicology tour, and various shows after that. Oh and just to add, for him not to sing his classic 'Purple Rain' at an arena show, would be kind of odd, in a way, especially because it seems to be a song expected by many fans, at an arena show.

[Edited 9/5/12 18:29pm]

Totally agree with you!

Your posts are spot on and I concur completely!

2elijah; you come with love and respect, most of all Understanding! LOVE!

Thanks, much appreciated.

The one thing I hate most about the concerts I have seen by Prince is the contrived audience participation.

I'll draw examples from Nine Inch Nails and Mika to show contrasts. During their shows, audience members will shout out key parts of their songs, not because they are being asked to, but because the performances and the songs are just that damned hot. The audience is feeling the vibe and getting it.

I loathe the "put your hands up, or "when I say this, you say that" crap. It feels like I'm at a varsity football game.

I've seen Prince much more effectively use audience participation, like in the televised MTV accoustic set from Musicology--THAT's the way you do it.

Of course, I'm just happy the preaching has subsided.

I dont think Prince gives a shit what your opinion of Shelby is... Don't like what he does? Keep your ass home. Nobodys forcing anything on you.

imago said:

The one thing I hate most about the concerts I have seen by Prince is the contrived audience participation.

I'll draw examples from Nine Inch Nails and Mika to show contrasts. During their shows, audience members will shout out key parts of their songs, not because they are being asked to, but because the performances and the songs are just that damned hot. The audience is feeling the vibe and getting it.

I loathe the "put your hands up, or "when I say this, you say that" crap. It feels like I'm at a varsity football game.

I've seen Prince much more effectively use audience participation, like in the televised MTV accoustic set from Musicology--THAT's the way you do it.

Of course, I'm just happy the preaching has subsided.

Ok, so you loathe it. I, however, loathe heavy metal musicians who scream like banshees running through the forests, and actually think they're creating music, but does that mean they should stop because I don't like it? Absolutely not. Nor could I tell them what's 'better' for them musically, just because I don't like how they present their performance. Especially if I don't have their individual 'vision', regarding what music is or what it means to them.

There's nothing wrong with band members involving themselves in audience participation and ramping up the energy during a show with a major artist. Shelby J or any of the other backup singers/band members can't take anything away from Prince's 35-year plus music career, fame/accomplishments or his ability to connect with his audience, on his own. If anything, his band associates/backup singers add to the energy he projects to his audience, and if what his band associates do on stage, wasn't something he wanted them to do, then obviously, it wouldn't be done. He's worked with former band members who projected the same type of energy, but I think often times, some fans get wrapped up in their personal fantasy of the image/expectations they have of their favorite artists/musicians, and forget that they are not the ones calling the shots. I am not saying that fans have to like everything a musician/artist does, but as fans, we don't get to call the shots as to which musician/artist has a right to share the stage with Prince or tell them what they can or cannot do.

On another note, I guarantee if he didn't let the light shine on some of his band members, some fans would complain, b*tch and whine, that he doesn't give those musicians/artists, a chance to shine in the spotlight and show their creative skills-when in fact, he has continuously, and unselfishly, let the spotlight shine on many of his band members over the years, who have shared/share the stage with him, as well as, inviting new musicians/artists to do the same.

At the end of the day, it's Prince who decides and makes the calls, as to which direction he wants to take his musical jouirney, as well as, how he wants to travel it, including making decisions as to which musicians/artists he chooses to become part of his band.

'Correction to spelling and a few edits'

[Edited 9/6/12 6:36am]

2elijah said:

On another note, I guarantee if he didn't let the light shine on some of his band members, some fans would complain, b*tch and whine, that he doesn't give those musicians/artists, a chance to shine in the spotlight and show their creative skills-when in fact, he has continuously, and unselfishly, let the spotlight shine on many of his band members over the years, who have shared/share the stage with him, as well as, inviting new musicians/artists to do the same.

At the end of the day, it's Prince who decides and makes the calls, as to which direction he wants to take his musical jouirney, as well as, how he wants to travel it, including making decisions as to which musicians/artists he chooses to become part of his band.

All that is debatable, like the Time, the Family, GCS2000 album, Chaka's album w/Prince, Bria etc. All his proteges or anyone that P takes under his wings, he simply uses them like the Muppets. Some go on and do own thing and shine true but while they are with Prince they seem to have limited input. Including superstars like Chaka. "Come 2 My House" eh huh sounds like Prince music with Chaka singing over it.

I don't think Prince is into being innovative anymore, and hasn't been for quite some time. He's settled into playing the hits phase of his career.

motherfunka said:

I don't think Prince is into being innovative anymore, and hasn't been for quite some time. He's settled into playing the hits phase of his career.

I don't know about that, because he's always been unpredictable, so i can't agree that he isn't into being innovative anymore. As far as his music, past and present, I think a fan's interest in Prince's music depends on the individual's music tastes, since not all fans like the same types of music from every artist. He has the creative ability to play various forms of music, so there has been a lot to choose from over the years. Can't really say that about too many artists. Especially all the flavors of his music Prince exposed his fans too, i.e. rock, r&b, soul, rockabilly, funk, funk-rock, blues, gospel/spiritual, ballads, jazz, etc., all of which he has the ability/talent to play.

These days he seems to enjoy touring, doing live shows/concerts, embracing new artists' music talent, and educating them about the music industry, as well as, exposing many fans to the skills of real musicians who actually play instruments. The latest generations of youth, grew up listening to many artists who are not, skilled musicians (don't play instruments), and it seems Prince is on a mission to bring that back during his live shows.

[Edited 9/6/12 21:55pm]

I don't like Shelby either, for the same reasons I didn't like Rosie Gaines

having seen them 3 times since shelby been in the group i would say the focus is not on her she a back drop maybe on tv or videos somebody recoreded it seems that way but in concert the focus is on prince unless one of em doing a solo. i think shelby fits perfect her smile is so southern and lovely. i would love 4 her and prince 2 do more studio work 2gether

i would say this being elisa ia past protege of prince she should showcase some of her past songs during the show like love's no fun, on my way up

2elijah said:

motherfunka said:

I don't think Prince is into being innovative anymore, and hasn't been for quite some time. He's settled into playing the hits phase of his career.

I don't know about that, because he's always been unpredictable, so i can't agree that he isn't into being innovative anymore. As far as his music, past and present, I think a fan's interest in Prince's music depends on the individual's music tastes, since not all fans like the same types of music from every artist. He has the creative ability to play various forms of music, so there has been a lot to choose from over the years. Can't really say that about too many artists. Especially all the flavors of his music Prince exposed his fans too, i.e. rock, r&b, soul, rockabilly, funk, funk-rock, blues, gospel/spiritual, ballads, jazz, etc., all of which he has the ability/talent to play.

These days he seems to enjoy touring, doing live shows/concerts, embracing new artists' music talent, and educating them about the music industry, as well as, exposing many fans to the skills of real musicians who actually play instruments. The latest generations of youth, grew up listening to many artists who are not, skilled musicians (don't play instruments), and it seems Prince is on a mission to bring that back during his live shows.

[Edited 9/6/12 21:55pm]

I'll agree he was unpredictable many, many years ago. He's been pretty predicatable for a long time now. Bashing the record companies, doing concerts here and there, giving away his new material in newspapers because he knows no one would buy it otherwise, and praising certain new artists (and who really cares about that?). Prince was preaching about real music, real musicians in the 90s all while having Tommy play samples of all kinds of stuff, and later Morris.

motherfunka said:

2elijah said:

I don't know about that, because he's always been unpredictable, so i can't agree that he isn't into being innovative anymore. As far as his music, past and present, I think a fan's interest in Prince's music depends on the individual's music tastes, since not all fans like the same types of music from every artist. He has the creative ability to play various forms of music, so there has been a lot to choose from over the years. Can't really say that about too many artists. Especially all the flavors of his music Prince exposed his fans too, i.e. rock, r&b, soul, rockabilly, funk, funk-rock, blues, gospel/spiritual, ballads, jazz, etc., all of which he has the ability/talent to play.

These days he seems to enjoy touring, doing live shows/concerts, embracing new artists' music talent, and educating them about the music industry, as well as, exposing many fans to the skills of real musicians who actually play instruments. The latest generations of youth, grew up listening to many artists who are not, skilled musicians (don't play instruments), and it seems Prince is on a mission to bring that back during his live shows.

[Edited 9/6/12 21:55pm]

I'll agree he was unpredictable many, many years ago. He's been pretty predicatable for a long time now. Bashing the record companies, doing concerts here and there, giving away his new material in newspapers because he knows no one would buy it otherwise, and praising certain new artists (and who really cares about that?). Prince was preaching about real music, real musicians in the 90s all while having Tommy play samples of all kinds of stuff, and later Morris.

Listen to what's on the radio now-a-days and you tell me that Prince's concerts now, are not about real music, real musicians. Its not like the whole entire concert is sampled. I saw some new jack name Miguel at the New years eve celebration in Miami and have mercy, I felt like music really is dead. I'll take a Prince concert any day!

To be honest I think Prince changing band members over the years have made the Purple experience even more fun. its been fun to get to know all the new musicians since the Revolution and becoming familiar with their talents. I dont mind it.

motherfunka said:

2elijah said:

I don't know about that, because he's always been unpredictable, so i can't agree that he isn't into being innovative anymore. As far as his music, past and present, I think a fan's interest in Prince's music depends on the individual's music tastes, since not all fans like the same types of music from every artist. He has the creative ability to play various forms of music, so there has been a lot to choose from over the years. Can't really say that about too many artists. Especially all the flavors of his music Prince exposed his fans too, i.e. rock, r&b, soul, rockabilly, funk, funk-rock, blues, gospel/spiritual, ballads, jazz, etc., all of which he has the ability/talent to play.

These days he seems to enjoy touring, doing live shows/concerts, embracing new artists' music talent, and educating them about the music industry, as well as, exposing many fans to the skills of real musicians who actually play instruments. The latest generations of youth, grew up listening to many artists who are not, skilled musicians (don't play instruments), and it seems Prince is on a mission to bring that back during his live shows.

[Edited 9/6/12 21:55pm]

I'll agree he was unpredictable many, many years ago. He's been pretty predicatable for a long time now. Bashing the record companies, doing concerts here and there, giving away his new material in newspapers because he knows no one would buy it otherwise, and praising certain new artists (and who really cares about that?). Prince was preaching about real music, real musicians in the 90s all while having Tommy play samples of all kinds of stuff, and later Morris.

He still is unpredictable. He has changed band members over the years, so I can't say he's predictable in that sense. And what artist/musician don't complain about record labels? It's not like there's no snakes in that business, that prey/take advantage and have cheated many artists/musicians out of money and their creative material. As far as real musicians and real music, I hope he always preaches that. The state of the music industry and what some of the labels call talent and music today, is a joke, and if half these new artists, don't stay on top of their game long enough to have classics, 10 plus year music catalogue, then they'll be kicked to the curve with a quickness, and will join the "Where are they now" list.

For example, Amerie, Ciarra, just to name a few, and I would name more, but who remembers their names or songs?

wonder505 said:

To be honest I think Prince changing band members over the years have made the Purple experience even more fun. its been fun to get to know all the new musicians since the Revolution and becoming familiar with their talents. I dont mind it.

So true, and a chance to see those band members flex their talents

2elijah said:

imago said:

The one thing I hate most about the concerts I have seen by Prince is the contrived audience participation.

I'll draw examples from Nine Inch Nails and Mika to show contrasts. During their shows, audience members will shout out key parts of their songs, not because they are being asked to, but because the performances and the songs are just that damned hot. The audience is feeling the vibe and getting it.

I loathe the "put your hands up, or "when I say this, you say that" crap. It feels like I'm at a varsity football game.

I've seen Prince much more effectively use audience participation, like in the televised MTV accoustic set from Musicology--THAT's the way you do it.

Of course, I'm just happy the preaching has subsided.

Ok, so you loathe it. I, however, loathe heavy metal musicians who scream like banshees running through the forests, and actually think they're creating music, but does that mean they should stop because I don't like it? Absolutely not. Nor could I tell them what's 'better' for them musically, just because I don't like how they present their performance. Especially if I don't have their individual 'vision', regarding what music is or what it means to them.

[Edited 9/6/12 6:36am]

But you would never buy a ticket to heavy metal musicians playing concerts.

I love Prince at his best. My point is that he can and HAS done so much better. But now, it's just....ewwwwwwww.

imago said:

2elijah said:

Ok, so you loathe it. I, however, loathe heavy metal musicians who scream like banshees running through the forests, and actually think they're creating music, but does that mean they should stop because I don't like it? Absolutely not. Nor could I tell them what's 'better' for them musically, just because I don't like how they present their performance. Especially if I don't have their individual 'vision', regarding what music is or what it means to them.

[Edited 9/6/12 6:36am]

But you would never buy a ticket to heavy metal musicians playing concerts.

I love Prince at his best. My point is that he can and HAS done so much better. But now, it's just....ewwwwwwww.

Well, to each their own, and to answer your question, no, because that heavy metal sound is not my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean artists/fans who like it, should stop playing or listening to it just because I don't like it. I rather just keep it moving and gravitate my energy towards music styles, musicians/artists, whose music I like and appreciate.

2elijah said:

imago said:

But you would never buy a ticket to heavy metal musicians playing concerts.

I love Prince at his best. My point is that he can and HAS done so much better. But now, it's just....ewwwwwwww.

Well, to each their own, and to answer your question, no, because that heavy metal sound is not my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean artists/fans who like it, should stop playing or listening to it just because I don't like it. I rather just keep it moving and gravitate my energy towards music styles, musicians/artists, whose music I like and appreciate.

This is exaclty why I didn't bother seeing Prince the last 2 times he performed in my city, even though it was only 15 minutes away. He can do what he does, and I'm not asking him to stop doing it. I just loathe it, so attend shows elsewhere.

2elijah said:

Well, to each their own, and to answer your question, no, because that heavy metal sound is not my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean artists/fans who like it, should stop playing or listening to it just because I don't like it. I rather just keep it moving and gravitate my energy towards music styles, musicians/artists, whose music I like and appreciate.

That's just lumping things together. So what, you don't like metal period. Something to be said about how some metal bands can be so popular with some recordings and then change and then the majority of people don't like. Like Metallica.

Likely a reason 9 out of 10 dentists prefer GoldExp over New Power Soul. Every musician if they live long enough they will go thru spells. Go on the Bowie boards and try to tell his fans "Never Let me Down Again" album is better than the "Low" album! Or go on a Led Zep board and explain to them that Robert Plants solo stuff is better than Led Zep. LOL, sad thing is most Metal fans could tell you "Sign o the Times" is better than "Planet Earth!" Metallica fans did not just give up during the bad patch and move on they waited and they were rewarded with something they like and then kicked in the balls again.

I love P's stuff but just lumping it and saying oh you have to love all his music to continue to be a fan an have an opinion, just move on if you don't like his new music. Pathetic!! and I'm one of those people that even likes most of New Power Soul! But I'm not going to fool myself.

imago said:

2elijah said:

Well, to each their own, and to answer your question, no, because that heavy metal sound is not my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean artists/fans who like it, should stop playing or listening to it just because I don't like it. I rather just keep it moving and gravitate my energy towards music styles, musicians/artists, whose music I like and appreciate.

This is exaclty why I didn't bother seeing Prince the last 2 times he performed in my city, even though it was only 15 minutes away. He can do what he does, and I'm not asking him to stop doing it. I just loathe it, so attend shows elsewhere.

Ok, cool, so you found a solution before making it a problem for yourself and moved on to something else, which is a far better approach than someone wasting their time/energy bashing a musician, whose music styles they don't like or obsessively trashing them, because their favorite musician decides to take a different direction with their music, changes band members or whose latest album they didn't like. It's really not that difficult for people to make the choice of just 'moving on', if they don't like a musician's music or performance style, but sometimes fans make it their problem. For one fan that leaves, another will fill that void anyway. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Just like my opinion on heavy, metal music. It does nothing to move me, because it just sounds like noise, confusion and anger, and that's fine if others don't agree on my opinion of it. I'm sure there are various forms of that style of music, and for someone out there, who may have a love for heavy metal, it may sound like it could move the heavens for them, but for me, it's simply just a form of music that is not my cup of tea, but kudos and a bag of chips to those who adore it.

[Edited 9/8/12 7:14am]

2elijah said:

Ok, cool, so you found a solution before making it a problem for yourself and moved on, which is a far better approach than someone wasting their time/energy bashing a musician/artist, whose music styles they don't like or obsessively trashing them, because their favorite musician/artist decides to take a different direction with their music or changes band members. Just like my opinion on heavy, metal music. It does nothing to move me, because it just sounds like noise, confusion and anger, and that's fine if others don't agree. I'm sure there are different styles of it, that don't all sound the same, it's just not my cup of tea, but kudos and a bag of chips to those who adore it.

How would someone know if they do not like an album/show before they hear/see it? As for Prince music it taks time to grow. Resistance comes from ego and ego takes ownership of ideas.