Bohemian67 said:

OzlemUcucu said:

I downloaded hundreds of bootlegs this weekend and passed them on..everywhere from fb to friends and whatever...

Prince, you hear me?

He better be happy, I am doing this favor for him...

I hope you sent some to the White House. Barack's a good dancer you know and he could certainly do with some chilling in the upcoming months.

i believe there is footage of Obama clapping during a live performance of Housequake by Prince right in front of him. Just a quick shot from years ago. It was some Oprah event. If memory serves...

Let me make this clear (in this and every thread I've been posting in that discuss bootlegs):

Do not ask me how to get, or where to get, or directly for, any bootlegs. Don't ask me in the threads. Don't ask me via orgnote. Do. Not. Ask.

At this point, considering the paranoia up in here due to the closing of The Digital Garden, I have to assume every request is an attempt to entrap me specifically or the org in general. I cannot give the person asking the benefit of the doubt of newbie ignorance. It's not worth it.

Any and all requests for me to violate org policy will be reported.

That is all.

ufoclub said:

Bohemian67 said:

I hope you sent some to the White House. Barack's a good dancer you know and he could certainly do with some chilling in the upcoming months.

i believe there is footage of Obama clapping during a live performance of Housequake by Prince right in front of him. Just a quick shot from years ago. It was some Oprah event. If memory serves...

NAACP Image awards 2005. (Vanguard award.)

djThunderfunk said:

All of this discussion about the Digital Garden website being shut down has got me wondering a couple of things about Prince fans that collect bootlegs, so I'll ask:

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings?

Indeed, since 1989

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?

The Black album, there was a record store near me with a DJ who worked there who had a whole book of boots that he sold on cassettes, he would put two on a 90 minute tape for you. I picked The Black Album and, I think it's called "More Intimate Moments"? The one with the piano version of Purple Music.

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art?

Simply put, I haven't cared for 90% of the music he's put out commercially since 1997, and new boots Are almost entirely what keeps me interested in his music, whether it be a newly freed classic concert, or better quality versions of stuff from the vault.

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so?

Nope. I concede that if I were Prince, I would be very angry that his vault material is available to anyone with an internet connection who knows where to find it. But since I'm not, I'll blast my copies of Box 'o Chocolates and the Parade demos proudly.

For the record, it's not illegal to have this discussion...

oh, and DJ Thunderfunk, I miss my old Uptown mags, I used to have the first 30 or so all together, and I would love to read that article. That's just One of the many things I miss about Housequake.org was the transcribing of the old uptown articles. I'd do some myself if my collection wasn't long gone. I may still have the Gold Experience issue somewhere.

[Edited 9/2/12 9:55am]

[Edited 9/3/12 22:34pm]

[Edited 9/2/12 9:55am]


Black Album & Dream factory, via a friend who was a hard core Prince fan and got hold of cassette copy's in USA, somewhere around 92. (we were from Israel) No heart feelings. Collecting his bootlegs is like leaving a child alone in a candy store... Irresistible... these songs take me back, makes me reminisce and made me fall in love with Prince music all over again... Would be amazing if songs from the vault were oficially released in high quality. I would not hesistate for a second to pay for the songs. Prince tried to release some new versions of some songs, but to me the original recordings posses the real "purple magic". Plus I dont like that he tries to clean the lyrics and change songs to fit his newer religious beliefs. I guess the bootlegs will have to do... Magic area captured in those songs. Wild, open, free, insatibale, raw talent on fire.

[Edited 9/3/12 22:33pm]

[Edited 9/3/12 22:41pm]

[Edited 9/3/12 22:46pm]

djThunderfunk said:

All of this discussion about the Digital Garden website being shut down has got me wondering a couple of things about Prince fans that collect bootlegs, so I'll ask:

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings?yes

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?record shows

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art?it made me a fan, without it hes ok but with the boots hes great

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so?no

To be fair, I'll answer for myself:

1) I listen to and collect unreleased Prince recordings.

2) I first became aware of the existence of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation by reading about the Black Album's cancellation and bootlegging in my local newspaper and then reading a review of it in Rolling Stone magazine. While searching to buy a copy of the Black Album I discovered there were many Prince bootlegs full of material I had never heard of.

3) Collecting Prince bootlegs has increased my level of interest in Prince's art, my opinion of his skills and my obsession to buy everything he releases and see him live every chance I get.

4) No.

For the record, it's not illegal to have this discussion...

[Edited 9/2/12 9:55am]

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings? Yes.

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation? It was often mentioned in the articles about him.

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art? I think it has helped me to sustain my interest in him during the times when I haven't been that into his official output (especially during the late-90s)

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so? This really has not even crossed my mind since the 90s.

Here it is, VERY LONG, a little bit of brilliant, quite a bit of crazy and a whole bunch more commas than periods (and kinda fammy before that was even a thing) I give you:

HOT & COLD THING

By Pierre Igot

UPTOWN Issue #15

July 1994

It's not so easy to find bootlegs. It's not so easy to listen to them. It's not so easy to talk about them.

I remember my first Prince bootleg. I had known about the existence of Prince bootlegs for a while already, but I still had a kind of idealistic conception of an artist and his work that made me refuse to let myself buy or even listen to any of these mysterious and (at the time) expensive records.

I remember the first time I listened to this first bootleg. It was a recording of the 1987 Paris club concert at the New Morning nightclub. I tried first with my headphones (I had always enjoyed Prince's music the most when listening to it with headphones, and my most interesting musical experiences come from this kind of listening - so far), but the background noise was so loud (to my delicate ears at the time) that I decided right away to switch to a low-volume listening from speakers.

It was already dark outside and I only had a small dim light on. It felt like a kind of incest (that's what I wrote at the time). I liked it, but I felt guilty. Not at all because of the fact that, by buying this kind of record, I was doing something illegal (I still don't know exactly what's really illegal about bootlegs anyway), but because I was perhaps doing something "Prince" (at least the human image of him I was trying to communicate with when I was listening to his music) didn't want me to do - even though it was a concert recording and there had been people listening to him. I had heard about Prince forbidding people to tape his concerts, to take photographs or to do anything that could enable peopel to keep track of his work without his own control, so I knew that, in some way, he didn't agree with what I was doing. I felt he considered a concert - particularly a club concert - as something unique and ephemeral that should only continue to live in the memory of the happy few that were there at the time.

The Fan and the Collector

As a Prince fan, I have evolved a lot since then. I've listened to many bootlegs, not only of concerts, but also of unreleased studio recordings. I have discovered some fabulous songs. I have had several fantastic musical experiences with bootlegs, just like the ones I had and still have sometimes with what we call "official" releases. I don't think I still have this idealistic romantic concept of an artist that I had at the beginning (and that has not only to do with Prince). But I still have this feeling of guilt when I think about it.

I think that's the way the "Collector" and the "Fan" fight against each other inside me. Ideally, they should complement each other, the former helping the latter to have the most numerous and the most fantastic musical experiences he can have. But they don't.

Sometimes they do, though. Sometimes I listen to a song (like say, "Corporate World"), I like it a lot, I listen to it again, and again, when I'm not listening I think about it for a while - and I can't find any other reasons than purely commercial ones for Prince not having released this song. Perhaps it's because of the one-year production-of-a-10-track-record/promotion-of-this-record/relax cycle that we feel Prince hated so much but had to follow: "This is a guy who is simply uncomfortable with the confines of the 1990s industry and the constraints it puts on a prolific artist... The idea that you're dictated to: 'Okay, you make a record this month, you release it that month, you sit on your ass for three months, you tour for three more months, you sit on your ass another three months' - that's not the kind of guy Prince is." (Alan Leeds, Rolling Stone, June 10th, 1993). Or perhaps it's because (like in the case of "Corporate World") he had to leave some room for other people's involvement. So I feel no guilt. I say to myself that Prince would have released the song if he had been able to. It's the same thing for the concerts: sometimes I feel I bought the bootleg just like I would have bought a ticket to the concert, and I enjoy it In almost the same way. Proust said somewhere, about paintings, that we shouldn't be allowed to buy a painting and own it (and hide it or resell it etc.), but only to buy our right to look at it. The record industry has, in many regards, accomplished this in the field of musical works: when you buy a record, you don't buy the actual piece of work of the artist, but the right to listen to it as many times as you want (which is quite nice and generous if we think about it). And perhaps bootleg trading is only trying to fill the gap between our now a bit old-fashioned music business and the true musical circuit of the future... Maybe Prince and his fans are a bit early in terms of music history and have to cheat - by using the bootleg shortcut - as long as they want to build a relastionship that goes beyond the "commercial" logic that sees the listener as a mere consumer. Maybe the bootleg "business" and its off-shoots are a way of establishing a kind of immediate complicity with the artist that he himself wouldn't like to suppress and isn't trying to. Besides, the N.P.G. Store is now selling records that aren't available anywhere else...

Old Friends 4 Sale

However, at many other times the Collector and the Fan don't agree at all. It seems that the Collector is obliging the Fan to listen to songs he shouldn't listen to (becaue they are only "rough copies"), or concerts he shouldn't listen to because he wasn't there at the time and it's now too late. I already know the song entitled "Old Friends 4 Sale", I like it a lot, it does something to me, but maybe it'll be released some day by Prince or another artist and I will never be able to discover it the way the "official" Prince wanted me to discover it anymore (which is unfortunately what happened to many fans with Graffiti Bridge). Maybe Prince will "officially" release his whole collection of approximately 500 unreleased tracks and I won't enjoy them the same way because I'll already know many of the songs, I'll have to realise that I've become used to the bad or mediocre quality of the bootlegs, that it has become part of the songs for me - and I'll feel guilty for not having waited, for not having been able to wait till he decides to release them, for having succumbed to the evil charms of an evil trade that had nothing to do with art and integrity - I'll feel like I wasted the chance of a wonderful experience (this complete access to the Vault we're all dreaming of) just because I wasn't strong enough to resist, confident enough to wait for him to decide, to wait for him to find the best way to reach me...

Nevertheless, now I think we're all heading to a new phase. Indeed, it may be that for the very first time we have an artist that, without being "damned" (maudit like a poet), is not at all subject to the vicious and inevitable cycle of rise, success and fall of which bootlegs can be considered a symptom.

A Grand Progression

Prince seems to have "assimilated" the bootleg problem, he seems to have integrated it into his work and he even sometimes seems to be able to play with it.

Look at the fact, for example, that he has had some of his nightclub concerts recorded (as we can see in the 1989 Paisley Park documentary, that contains an excerpt from the 1988 Camden Palace concert).

Look at the Black Album, the withdrwal and the message in the "Alphabet St." video, and the apparently contradictory fact that he played two of the tracks on the Lovesexy tour ("Superfunkycalifragisexy" and "Bob George")... Prince seems to consider that the Black Album was too "dark" for some people, but not for other people! In other words, he knows perfectly well how to deal with different kinds of audiences. In the end, this doesn't sound, at all, like a condemnation of the bootleg trade...

Look at "Gett Off", which was actually only planned as an "official bootleg" at first and was eventually included in Diamonds And Pearls. Here again, Prince seems to address different audiences at the same time, and gives his fans (the ones who follow him closely enough) the privilege to see him at work (having ideas, changing his mind, etc.), while the general public simply feeds on the "tip of the iceberg" (and not always likes it). And we can also see Prince "at work" if we consider the 'Get off' path that leads from "Mutiny" through "Housequake" and "Get Off" to the actual "Gett Off" and "Gangster Glam" and "Violet The Organ Grinder".

Look at the series of "samples" of songs on the Carmen Electra album for example: anybody who has a certain knowledge of Prince's recent work has recognised not only excerpts from officially released tracks (like "With This Tear" by Celine Dion), but also excerpts from tracks that weren't released at the time Carmen Electra was (like Monie Love's "In A Word Or 2" or Mavis Staples' "The Voice") and even excerpts from tracks that are not released yet, and perhaps never will be. It seems that Prince enjoys playing with his most faithful fans and sometimes likes to "tease" them with this kind of intimate hinting.

In the distance...

I could go on and on and on... There's a whole list of examples (the release of "The Most Beautiful Girl In The World" single through independant record stores being one of the most recent ones) that show us how accurate Prince's awareness is of the diversity of his audiences and how important this can be in his creative process (and he might be significantly less scornful of the "general public" than many of his fans are). Prince's ambition is to introduce as many of us as he can to a new kind of approach to art and creation. That's the whole meaning of this "New Power" thing. True Prince fans know this is not easy, they know they have to strive as hard as he has to, they know that sometimes they won't understand, they are cautious, patient and ready to modify their opinions and their perception of things - and they regard bootlegs with the necessary distance.

Whew! I wonder how he feels about all this today...

[Edited 9/4/12 10:17am]

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings?

Yes

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?

The owner of a local recordshop where I went almost every weekday in my lunch break and who knew I was very much into prince sold me the original Small Club boot.

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art?

It made me concentrate on the music more

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so?

I don't feel guilty at all, but I do wonder why Prince doesn't cater for this market himself. It's obvious that there is a lot of demand (especially from older fans; I am of the age that I prefer the fysical record or CD over any downloadable format). So in my opinion he is throwing away a lot of easy to be made money. I buy for about $ 300 bootlegs in an average year.

Another thing I don't get: why doesn't he do the concert live thing? I went to see Elton John and could buy the concert he was about to play for 25 Euro, a little wait afterwards and you get the a double CD with most of the concert and an empty CD-R and a code to download the last 20 minutes. A great sounding souvenir! I would buy one at every Prince concert I attend if I had the chance.

djThunderfunk said:

Do not ask me how to get, or where to get, or directly for, any bootlegs. Don't ask me in the threads. Don't ask me via orgnote. Do. Not. Ask.

I have been getting messages too. Probably others have as well.

When shitheads can't even bring themseves to use basic words like "hello, please & thank you" then they can suck my big pink cock for information!

TheDigitalGardener said:

FunkySideEffects said:

No I don't have any bootlegs & I wouldn't even know where to get them from

Me neither!! I would love to own some, not so much the music but the videos and soundboards would be amazing.

Nobody has a comment on Pierre Igot's essay? Okay, then...

KingSausage said:

djThunderfunk said:

All of this discussion about the Digital Garden website being shut down has got me wondering a couple of things about Prince fans that collect bootlegs, so I'll ask:

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings?

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art?

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so?

[Edited 9/2/12 9:55am]

1. Absolutely. I have been collecting bootlegs since 1987 starting with The Black Album. That led me to all the vinyl bootlegs that were out there, which I still own, then to the early days of bootleg Prince CD's, many of which I still have but not in the best of shape after being salvaged from our house fire. This of course then led to the new wave of bootlegs, FREE downloads, where I have been able to replace what I lost plus hundreds and hundreds more I never had since they are lossless and free to download.

2. The early days of tape trading, which I got into after obtaining The Black Album & realizing there was this whole world of unreleased Prince music. The Black Album really is what opened my eyes to the whole unreleased Prince world.

3. If not for the bootleg market, I would have lost interest in Prince. His current studio output has been mediocre at best, his current greatest hits heavy live shows are watered down and lazy compared to past tours & his treatment of former band members, associates and fans in many instances disgusts me. I have learned to separate his asshole personality from his music, and bootlegs documentaing his brilliance have helped me do that. They truly are what keeps me going as a fan because many of these bootleg labels (MAJOR exception for the shysters at Eye Records) are delivering what Prince should be with his music.

4. Absolutely NOT.

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings? <- yes of course some of his more interesting recordings have never been offically released (Rebirth Of Flesh, Others Here With Us for example )

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?<- they used to be in the vintage record shops before they disappeared

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art? <-It always makes me wonder who different certain LPs would have been had he included certain B sides and Boots as opposed to the songs released. Also it makes him more prolific than most artists with the sheer amount of songs he has around

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so? <- not in the least. Prince should properly release these items, since there is clearly a market. I would gladly pay for clear versions of the boots I like. Most fans would I am sure. He has created an atmosphere where I can't see him on youtube, can't stream any concerts, without fear of a lawsuit. He is the ONLY artist of his caliber you can't find much live material. So my only hope is find boots and watch them. If he did another proper store online and allowed fans to download old footage who wouldn't jump on it? I have been to several concerts ( including Welcome to America) There are ALWAYS camera filming yet we can not get a legit copy, so until he realizes his fans want these items ... bootleg city can't you see ?

djThunderfunk said:

All of this discussion about the Digital Garden website being shut down has got me wondering a couple of things about Prince fans that collect bootlegs, so I'll ask:

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings?

Yes quite a few and always eager to get more, there is so much more to Prince than his official releases, some of these bootlegs have him at his greatest moments and you get the live sound missing on studio albums.

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?

Reading Prince a documentary in 1992, the first edition had a list of known bootlegs and realising that virtually every show has a bootleg

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art?

A lot as he is at his most artistic on concert bootlegs and a lot Prince bootlegs are of aborted songs and projects like Dream Factory. Plus I really love rehersal jams like the White girls and Feline jams from 1984. Prince has an amazing version of "Screams of Passion"

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so?

No, Prince is rich enough and some of these bootlegs are so good he should have released them while keeping shit albums like The Rainbow children and Chaos and Disorder hidden. Also most of the bootlegs I have got were free from friends.

) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings? Yes

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation? The Black Album/ Goldmine Magazine (loved this magazine!)

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art? The more the better

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so? I don't, if Prince wanted the 'market' all he has to do is get a copy, mass produce it under The Bootleg Series, and there you go. There are way too many releases out there do actually stop it...beat them at their own game. Do what we all do...

[Edited 9/4/12 20:42pm]

[Edited 9/4/12 20:43pm]

Well, it's been a week... Let's review:

1,779 views, only 47 replies

Of those willing or interested enough to answer, almost all listen to bootlegs. The majority of us became aware of bootlegs because of the Black Album, which many of us learned about from mainstream media news stories and reviews that discussed the album's cancellation and subsequent bootlegging. Listening to bootlegs has increased our interest in Prince, his art, and collecting his official releases. Some of us have no moral issues with listening to bootlegs and most of us who would be inclined to have a problem with it justify it because the material is circulating whether we listen to it or not and because Prince doesn't give us the option of paying him for the experience.

And, nobody seems interested in the editorial or essay from UPTOWN magazine's bootleg issue.

That about sums it up!

djThunderfunk said:

Well, it's been a week... Let's review:

1,779 views, only 47 replies

Of those willing or interested enough to answer, almost all listen to bootlegs. The majority of us became aware of bootlegs because of the Black Album, which many of us learned about from mainstream media news stories and reviews that discussed the album's cancellation and subsequent bootlegging. Listening to bootlegs has increased our interest in Prince, his art, and collecting his official releases. Some of us have no moral issues with listening to bootlegs and most of us who would be inclined to have a problem with it justify it because the material is circulating whether we listen to it or not and because Prince doesn't give us the option of paying him for the experience.

And, nobody seems interested in the editorial or essay from UPTOWN magazine's bootleg issue.

That about sums it up!

I did reply earlier and have read all replies hear along with the Uptown articles.

The uptown article was in someways about the guilt of been a bootleg collector written in 94 or so when the true fans felt that Prince was trying to be free and the guilt came from having this material that was hoped would be shared in it's proper time...but that time has passed and no longer is he or have Slave written on his cheek.

So the modern collector has no guilt about listening to boots,

1 Studio Out-takes : we get song the we can trace the evoultion of till finished versions and beyond We Can Funk to Oui Can Love is a prime example. other songs we get to here for the first time or even just samples off which we hope to hear finished versions .

2 Live Recordings: With the number of shows and differences in the those sets as well as unique aftershows, we know the only way to enjoy the Prince experience to it's full is to trace the experiences and live them all. A guy I know, took one song (Days Of Wild)and turned it an hour+ long mix from 12 concerts and not once did it repeat itself or get boring.....This is why we love the live shows another example is I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man as played in Austrailia, without boots how could we know of this beautiful unique re-interpation of this song.

But the above are all to be found and shared ..if you know where to look...and the guys who are passionate about these will go out of their way to support Prince's actual work, be it buying the new Cd, the new cd from a protege or associate artist, go to the concerts and drag as many friends as they can convince or even travel a continent to support this man. In another section on this site people are begging for tour programs...maybe for collections but also placing money in Princes pockect even if he is thousands of miles away!!!

So the guilt of have boots is gone because most of us will buy any project he releases.

the bootlegs are like the finger up the bum of a blow job

And I'm still always shocked when people say they don't know how to find them. I mean, it's 2012 and the internet has been around for quite some time now. If you can set the timer on a microwave to defrost for 20 minutes then you can find boots using Google.

djThunderfunk said:

All of this discussion about the Digital Garden website being shut down has got me wondering a couple of things about Prince fans that collect bootlegs, so I'll ask:

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings?

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art?

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so?

To be fair, I'll answer for myself:

1) I listen to and collect unreleased Prince recordings.

2) I first became aware of the existence of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation by reading about the Black Album's cancellation and bootlegging in my local newspaper and then reading a review of it in Rolling Stone magazine. While searching to buy a copy of the Black Album I discovered there were many Prince bootlegs full of material I had never heard of.

3) Collecting Prince bootlegs has increased my level of interest in Prince's art, my opinion of his skills and my obsession to buy everything he releases and see him live every chance I get.

4) No.

For the record, it's not illegal to have this discussion...

[Edited 9/2/12 9:55am]

Are you Prince's lawyer ???????

djThunderfunk said:

All of this discussion about the Digital Garden website being shut down has got me wondering a couple of things about Prince fans that collect bootlegs, so I'll ask:

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings?

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art?

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so?

To be fair, I'll answer for myself:

1) I listen to and collect unreleased Prince recordings.

2) I first became aware of the existence of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation by reading about the Black Album's cancellation and bootlegging in my local newspaper and then reading a review of it in Rolling Stone magazine. While searching to buy a copy of the Black Album I discovered there were many Prince bootlegs full of material I had never heard of.

3) Collecting Prince bootlegs has increased my level of interest in Prince's art, my opinion of his skills and my obsession to buy everything he releases and see him live every chance I get.

4) No.

For the record, it's not illegal to have this discussion...

[Edited 9/2/12 9:55am]

1. Yes, a lot of unreleased songs, rehearsals, demos, live recordings, videos, associated artists' outtakes, etc. I probably have more bootlegs than official stuff, and I already have all of the officially released material.

2. I really have no idea. I only became a Prince fan in 2008, and the first album released after I became a fan was LOtUSFLOW3R. I think one of the first bootlegs I downloaded were the Montreux Jazz Festival shows. I found them online but I really don't know how. Since then I've gone through all the unreleased stuff on PrinceVault and I've tried to find as many of them as I can, as well as trying to collect as much tour footage and recordings from every tour he's done from the Prince up until today's Welcome 2 era.

3. Too long to explain. I'm obssesed with this musician.

4. No.

xenophobia2002 said:

djThunderfunk said:

All of this discussion about the Digital Garden website being shut down has got me wondering a couple of things about Prince fans that collect bootlegs, so I'll ask:

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings?

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art?

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so?

To be fair, I'll answer for myself:

1) I listen to and collect unreleased Prince recordings.

2) I first became aware of the existence of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation by reading about the Black Album's cancellation and bootlegging in my local newspaper and then reading a review of it in Rolling Stone magazine. While searching to buy a copy of the Black Album I discovered there were many Prince bootlegs full of material I had never heard of.

3) Collecting Prince bootlegs has increased my level of interest in Prince's art, my opinion of his skills and my obsession to buy everything he releases and see him live every chance I get.

4) No.

For the record, it's not illegal to have this discussion...

[Edited 9/2/12 9:55am]

Are you Prince's lawyer ???????

Yeah.... this is a sting. Whatever....

I have collected Prince bootlegs since 1990. I have over 600 unrelesed or alterversions of songs Prince has recorded. Plus too many oncerts to mention.

Deleted comment - langebleu - moderator

kbarso said:

I have collected Prince bootlegs since 1990. I have over 600 unrelesed or alterversions of songs Prince has recorded. Plus too many oncerts to mention. [Snip - luv4u]

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings?

Yes

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?

The Black Album

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art?

Without the boots I'd never know the amazing volume and depth of his music. I still continue to buy everything he officially releases and go to his shows when possible.

4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so?

I would prefer to give my $ to Prince in return - but he simply doesn't offer it.

In the NPGMC days he was clever enough to make up 'AUDIO shows' which was a brilliant marketing ploy - well ahead of its time. He seems to be lost in the Digital Haze now...too scared or too stupid to see that the internet can be used to his advantage.

1) Do you / have you, listened to or collected unreleased Prince recordings? Yes

2) How did you first become aware of the existence of the vast amount of unreleased Prince recordings in circulation?

Excitedly visiting the NPG store in Camden and discovering a whole host of vinyl, tapes and CDs with Prince on the cover that I had no knowledge of. I realized they were unofficial but found it astounding that there was stuff out there available that wasn’t available elsewhere in Our Price, Tower Records, HMV etc and I didn’t know about it. This “secret” I had discovered made me curious as to what was on it. I bought one at a high price (Platinum) and found it a new experience. I bought more because I liked the art, some came with booklets of images I hadn’t seen before and music that I knew was Prince but wasn’t available elsewhere. I was like a kid in a candy store at one point. I loved Prince’s music and wanted more of it, and the only way to extend the feeling his music gave me was to buy stuff from the NPG store (yes I bought candles and stuff) or buy actual music. I hated audience recordings where you’d have to line up the equalizers in a certain way to make out what song he was performing and videos from a balcony which gave us a glimpse of Prince for a second. These only served as capturing the frenzy of a Prince concert.

The Black Album was obviously the best thing to happen to the bootleg market and reading reviews of what was out there in publications like The Interactive Experience fuelled my desire to get more, listen more and follow the journey of a song. I enjoyed going to Camden to see what was on offer but when TIE and New Bold Dance started ‘bootleg by post’ which graded things pretty fairly, I started ordering. Recently I’ve moved to hardly purchasing any bootlegs (although I still do because it drives me nuts when a boot is talked about on here and states it’s available at the usual channels and some of us still can’t find it or convert it etc, I end up giving someone 5-10 bucks to send me something I can stick in my CD/DVD player). I happily paid for the NPGMC in it’s first few incarnations and enjoyed the club and downloads despite not having a fast enough download speed to get a song in an hour! If Prince did another club where we could download and own music I’d join.

3) What effect if any does the Prince bootleg market have on the level of interest you have in Prince's art? Without hearing some of the boots, seeing performances overseas and live that I wasn’t at but could see on VHS/DVD and now online, it wouldn’t fuel my interest. Every artiste has a life span and people who grow up listening to someone end up outgrowing that person unless their work remains relevant. Prince has always been relevant but it’s also what he doesn’t say officially which contains further glimpses of his brilliance. I love the Vicki Waiting version where you can hear Prince start and stop the film at where he wants it inserted. It adds more to the song and shows his intended place for it. How would I have heard Empty Room without it’s official release? Prince knew this stuff was out there and we were listening to it because we reacted to it when he performed it live and knew the words. He just had to figure out how to tap into this market without ruining his asset of being the recording artiste with hundred of songs in a vault no-one has access to. The club worked for me with monthly downloads and ahdio shows. Didn’t like all of them but the access was enough to keep me happy and I enjoyed the output. Because of the bootlegs I’ll always have more Prince music I can buy that I don’t have and therefore can always add to my musical listening and experience of this artiste. Prince once said in an interview that when he wants to hear new music he writes it. We know this isn’t true because his influences are apparent and name-checked often, but given his versatility we can listen to a whole lot of Prince and get a wide range of music – funk, rock, jazz, pop, dance, spiritual etc. If he doesn’t give us that then we will look elsewhere. Prince is doing himself a disservice by not putting out more material (especially after the whole I’ll-be-freer-to-put-out-more-after-my-contract-runs-out argument – don’t get me started on that!!!) and limiting what people can see of him on YouTube.

People listen, discover and share what music they find and performances they dig. A new 13-year-old kid who’s learning guitar hears about Prince from an online forum or his guitar teacher. He looks him up on YouTube and can’t find anything that does his guitarplaying justice because most live stuff is taken down and he looks up someone else instead. This kid isn’t going to get ‘into’ Prince – a lost opportunity. 4) Do you have moral issues that cause you to feel guilty if you listen to a bootleg or even prevent you from doing so? Honestly, I never even realized they were wrong. When I discovered them I was too young to realize they weren’t official or were out there without authorization. Also music has always been shared which is why audio tapes were made in varying qualities depending on the audiophile in you. Tapes were shared, vinyl was swapped, CDs lent out and never returned so you bought new ones and then the digital age meant it happened on a whole new level. Every record company knows music is shared, they just don’t like that you didn’t buy it from them. When I was told these releases were unauthorized and Prince said in the 90s he’d release everything and there’d be no need to buy bootlegs I waited. Nothing happened. He wanted us to “free the Gold Experience”. Apart from listening to it live in concert what else could he have wanted than for us to get it out there? Write to WB? Yep and that’ll solve what? Music is created to be shared and enjoyed. If the original artiste doesn’t want it out there don’t commit it to a sharable physical medium or share it in a way that can be distributed. He doesn’t want it out there, why didn’t you really record it and put it in the vault? You gave it to someone and you knew they wouldn’t keep it forever and here we are. If Prince made more music and charged 100 bucks a year saying every month I’ll give you a few songs or 5 albums a year I’d pay him, but he doesn’t. He hasn’t released an album for 2 years now and so what fills the void? Listen to the back catalogue and listen to what you haven’t heard before. New music’s out there and we can hear it so why not?

I don’t feel guilty listening to a boot and with Prince’s communication channels no longer putting much out there or saying don’t buy boots I’ll give you this instead, there’s little reason to feel bad about wanting to hear an artiste you appreciate and pick up new stuff by him you haven’t yet discovered but someone is talking about online.

I do spend more money going after collectables like The Undertaker original CD, handwritten lyrics etc because of the attraction of owning something that contributed to the music, but I still have to buy boots (like Life o the Party) when that's the only way.

Just my 2-4-6-ok-this-was-longer-than-intended-cents! (or pence).