rdhull said:

electricberet said:

I'm as serious as a crazy person can be. The hold on my tickets to Chicago expires at midnight. I even forwarded my itinerary to Dr. Funkenberry.

Prince, you have a decision to make. Do you want the famous Electricberet at your concert, or not? The clock is ticking...

but on the real..prince still keeps winning..because even still with all his ..supposed...as yall claim..bad behavior..you guys are still willing to possibly go see him live..will still buy his cds..and at the very least..still have him or something associated with him as yalls avatar

You guys are just being silly and obsessed overall for it to get yall so heated...everyone should calm down and take a break from Prince for a fe years or so if yall are this caught up or else risk becoming mini Bartvanhemelins..and that's not good

.

[Edited 9/1/12 16:13pm]

Maybe Prince is even not aware of those things shutting down. I am inclined to think he does not know! He has people that do them on his behalf.

OzlemUcucu said:

rdhull said:

but on the real..prince still keeps winning..because even still with all his ..supposed...as yall claim..bad behavior..you guys are still willing to possibly go see him live..will still buy his cds..and at the very least..still have him or something associated with him as yalls avatar

You guys are just being silly and obsessed overall for it to get yall so heated...everyone should calm down and take a break from Prince for a fe years or so if yall are this caught up or else risk becoming mini Bartvanhemelins..and that's not good

.

[Edited 9/1/12 16:13pm]

Maybe Prince is even not aware of those things shutting down. I am inclined to think he does not know! He has people that do them on his behalf.

That's what I'm wondering too. He might have given some general instructions to his lawyers which they are now overzealously applying without thinking about what it does to his image. I don't think shutting down TDG will have any impact whatsoever on the flood of Prince bootlegs. The people who knew about that site have lots of other sources of information. TDG was just better organized and more accurate.

OzlemUcucu said:

rdhull said:

but on the real..prince still keeps winning..because even still with all his ..supposed...as yall claim..bad behavior..you guys are still willing to possibly go see him live..will still buy his cds..and at the very least..still have him or something associated with him as yalls avatar

You guys are just being silly and obsessed overall for it to get yall so heated...everyone should calm down and take a break from Prince for a fe years or so if yall are this caught up or else risk becoming mini Bartvanhemelins..and that's not good

.

[Edited 9/1/12 16:13pm]

Maybe Prince is even not aware of those things shutting down. I am inclined to think he does not know! He has people that do them on his behalf.

You "may" be right..maybe..because back at that namecheck thing his handler told me that he has no anomosity against the org at all...in fact said he likes it or something akin to that...which made me think that it was possible that a lot of his well known web presence handers were doing things on their own accord and to people who they had run ins with when they were part of the Prince website general community

rdhull said:

OzlemUcucu said:

Maybe Prince is even not aware of those things shutting down. I am inclined to think he does not know! He has people that do them on his behalf.

You "may" be right..maybe..because back at that namecheck thing his handler told me that he has no anomosity against the org at all...in fact said he likes it or something akin to that...which made me think that it was possible that a lot of his well known web presence handers were doing things on their own accord and to people who they had run ins with when they were part of the Prince website general community

I would think that if Prince actually planned specifically to shut this site down, he would not have timed it to happen the same day his Chicago concerts were announced. There have been months of no Prince news on the org. Why create some bad news to go along with the first good news in a long time?

I suspect lawyers going rogue.

OzlemUcucu said:

Maybe Prince is even not aware of those things shutting down. I am inclined to think he does not know! He has people that do them on his behalf.

This is the same BS fans have been saying for 15+ years. "Oh that is not really Prince's fault, it's just someone thinking they're doing him a favor and being a bit overzealous." Prince hires these fuckwits, they're operating IN HIS NAME, so the buck stops at Prince.

BartVanHemelen said:

OzlemUcucu said:

Maybe Prince is even not aware of those things shutting down. I am inclined to think he does not know! He has people that do them on his behalf.

This is the same BS fans have been saying for 15+ years. "Oh that is not really Prince's fault, it's just someone thinking they're doing him a favor and being a bit overzealous." Prince hires these fuckwits, they're operating IN HIS NAME, so the buck stops at Prince.

I know, but what I meant is that the site closing down to coincide with the fucking Chi announcement does not compute.

He is not aware of what's happening. Why do people moan instead of acting I don't understand. As I said, if you wanna make your voice heard, get those damn banners/posters out and tell him to stop shutting down sites.

He will notice if it's coming from people attending his lame ass "masterpiece" gigs, and that's the only way to go with this @electricberet.

So, how many orgers are going to Chi gig? How many are willing to get some banners up? Who is going to the copy shop and have prints made for fucks sake.

Bohemian67 said:

In my opinion the bad record companies are all over the place still. My nieces live on another continent, send me a video which they took days to choreograph (9 + 11) and Universal says 'no you can't listen to lady Gaga for free.' ??? And there are loads of videos out there with that issue.

I wish someone would do a research of how many bootleg 'hard core' fans there are, that are being disappointed. I think they, and us who enjoy them are in the minority. The thing is, the messages we read in the information overload are not always truthful or objective. e.g. they didn't know the words. One opinion. But bad news for us , he'll just play the hits again.

I absolutely understand his stance about the illegal downloads, it's fine. Not the reply to you on Dr. Funk. but then also, there's no point in trying chantage, (blackmail) because any good negotiator knows, never yield to pressure. He's a major artist, he has status and he can control his product. Our 'Voice of Holland' does the same with videos of those who 'made it' coz they need to make money.

Maybe in the end it's all good, and for a reason. It means we need to concentrate more on the smaller struggling artists. Or the ones, that due to this mega download age, will never evolve to mega rich super stars. So we keep something authentic. Like this nice one from Holland for example.

That is a good song. Thanks for the link.

OzlemUcucu said:

BartVanHemelen said:

This is the same BS fans have been saying for 15+ years. "Oh that is not really Prince's fault, it's just someone thinking they're doing him a favor and being a bit overzealous." Prince hires these fuckwits, they're operating IN HIS NAME, so the buck stops at Prince.

I know, but what I meant is that the site closing down to coincide with the fucking Chi announcement does not compute.

He is not aware of what's happening. Why do people moan instead of acting I don't understand. As I said, if you wanna make your voice heard, get those damn banners/posters out and tell him to stop shutting down sites.

He will notice if it's coming from people attending his lame ass "masterpiece" gigs, and that's the only way to go with this @electricberet.

So, how many orgers are going to Chi gig? How many are willing to get some banners up? Who is going to the copy shop and have prints made for fucks sake.

Even though I am crazy, I don't really want to fly to Chicago, stay in a hotel, and pay for expensive tickets just to get thrown out of the arena for supporting a website that I had nothing to do with. Are there any cheaper ways of getting Prince's attention?

electricberet said:

OzlemUcucu said:

I know, but what I meant is that the site closing down to coincide with the fucking Chi announcement does not compute.

He is not aware of what's happening. Why do people moan instead of acting I don't understand. As I said, if you wanna make your voice heard, get those damn banners/posters out and tell him to stop shutting down sites.

He will notice if it's coming from people attending his lame ass "masterpiece" gigs, and that's the only way to go with this @electricberet.

So, how many orgers are going to Chi gig? How many are willing to get some banners up? Who is going to the copy shop and have prints made for fucks sake.

Even though I am crazy, I don't really want to fly to Chicago, stay in a hotel, and pay for expensive tickets just to get thrown out of the arena for supporting a website that I had nothing to do with. Are there any cheaper ways of getting Prince's attention?

Why would you be thrown out of the arena for asking to keep fansites running dedicated to him?

Well, we were not thrown out!

OzlemUcucu said:

electricberet said:

Even though I am crazy, I don't really want to fly to Chicago, stay in a hotel, and pay for expensive tickets just to get thrown out of the arena for supporting a website that I had nothing to do with. Are there any cheaper ways of getting Prince's attention?

Why would you be thrown out of the arena for asking to keep fansites running dedicated to him?

Well, we were not thrown out!

But did you enjoy the concert? It sounds like a bummer experience to me. I mean, I love his music, but I don't really want to take two days off to try and teach him a lesson about public relations.

OzlemUcucu said:

How incredibly dumb would it be to give the guy their money just boycott him? :lol:

And I'm gonna tell you guys: if I go to the Chicago shows I ain't wearing shit.

How many times folks gotta get their heads knocked before they learn a lesson? Did this particular site think they were exempt or somehow special?

electricberet said:

OzlemUcucu said:

Why would you be thrown out of the arena for asking to keep fansites running dedicated to him?

Well, we were not thrown out!

But did you enjoy the concert? It sounds like a bummer experience to me. I mean, I love his music, but I don't really want to take two days off to try and teach him a lesson about public relations.

No, I didn't enjoy the concert, howeve it had nothing to do with the stuff on display 4 him, that we had in our team. Obviously, it's not about teachin him a lesson, and you shouldn't be doing that on your own. As I said, you need to be a bunch of people, and it's the only way to make your voice heard if you want to communite something to him!

He'll react to it, that's all I know!

Stymie said:

OzlemUcucu said:

You will need t-shirts, banners etc...with a message, not the TGD but generally about his attitude on shutting down fansites.

Also it helps if you are a about 30 ppl. upwards, which was the case with us. Front seats, close to the stage. Yep, he read, he spoke about it. This is the only way to show him what U wanna say.

Trust me, he notices it! Maybe you should go to the Chicago gig and team up with others for this cause.

How incredibly dumb would it be to give the guy their money just boycott him? And I'm gonna tell you guys: if I go to the Chicago shows I ain't wearing shit. How many times folks gotta get their heads knocked before they learn a lesson? Did this particular site think they were exempt or somehow special?

Nobody is boycotting anything! Dude, U gotta lotta learning to do....

OzlemUcucu said:

electricberet said:

But did you enjoy the concert? It sounds like a bummer experience to me. I mean, I love his music, but I don't really want to take two days off to try and teach him a lesson about public relations.

No, I didn't enjoy the concert, howeve it had nothing to do with the stuff on display 4 him, that we had in our team. Obviously, it's not about teachin him a lesson, and you shouldn't be doing that on your own. As I said, you need to be a bunch of people, and it's the only way to make your voice heard if you want to communite something to him!

He'll react to it, that's all I know!

I don't know. I'm skeptical. Does anyone else think this would be a good idea?

electricberet said:

OzlemUcucu said:

No, I didn't enjoy the concert, howeve it had nothing to do with the stuff on display 4 him, that we had in our team. Obviously, it's not about teachin him a lesson, and you shouldn't be doing that on your own. As I said, you need to be a bunch of people, and it's the only way to make your voice heard if you want to communite something to him!

He'll react to it, that's all I know!

I don't know. I'm skeptical. Does anyone else think this would be a good idea?

I was very sceptical too when we did, but it worked and he responded in the middle of everything, and nobody knew what he was talking about except us, the front row hardliners.

If you guys decide to do this, you need to decide when you gonna put the banners up, obviously you can't keep doing this all night! It needs timing!

You will also need a general statement about fansites being forced to shut down without mentioning a specific one. He will understand!!!

OzlemUcucu said:

Tshirts idea is stupid. If people are pissed at prince or think he's an asshole why give him your money?

OzlemUcucu said:

electricberet said:

I don't know. I'm skeptical. Does anyone else think this would be a good idea?

I was very sceptical too when we did, but it worked and he responded in the middle of everything, and nobody knew what he was talking about except us, the front row hardliners.

If you guys decide to do this, you need to decide when you gonna put the banners up, obviously you can't keep doing this all night! It needs timing!

You will also need a general statement about fansites being forced to shut down without mentioning a specific one. He will understand!!!

Well, so far it is just the two of us who have expressed a willingness to actually do something. Is anyone else interested?

What can we do other than going to the concert? I'm too pissed to go.

KingSausage said:

What can we do other than going to the concert? I'm too pissed to go.

Well, if you're the Sausage King of Chicago, couldn't you pull some strings to get him to change his mind? He might have some union trouble at the concert, for example. You could make that disappear.

THERE you are! Hey Bart. Hi hon

BartVanHemelen said:

OzlemUcucu said:

Maybe Prince is even not aware of those things shutting down. I am inclined to think he does not know! He has people that do them on his behalf.

This is the same BS fans have been saying for 15+ years. "Oh that is not really Prince's fault, it's just someone thinking they're doing him a favor and being a bit overzealous." Prince hires these fuckwits, they're operating IN HIS NAME, so the buck stops at Prince.

electricberet said:

Unfortunately I'm on the East Coast now.

KingSausage said:

electricberet said:

Well, if you're the Sausage King of Chicago, couldn't you pull some strings to get him to change his mind? He might have some union trouble at the concert, for example. You could make that disappear.

Unfortunately I'm on the East Coast now.

Well, just send your consigliere to make Prince an offer he can't refuse.

electricberet said:

My wife?!

KingSausage said:

electricberet said:

Well, just send your consigliere to make Prince an offer he can't refuse.

My wife?!

Sorry, I'm mixing up movie metaphors here.

Seriously, I don't know if there's anything we can do about The Digital Garden website. If the owners of the site decided to put up a fight, and needed help with their legal defense, we could contribute to that. But if they don't want to fight with Prince, that's their right.

2elijah said:

I have never heard of TDG, and I don't know what type of information they provided on their site to fans, regarding Prince's music, and my comments are not an attack on them. But if it was a site that provided information on bootleg material or displayed his image on bootleg material, which of course led to discussions of that bootleg material on that site, then it's not surprising they were shutdown. I'm sure they were already aware that Prince was against his music/concert shows being bootlegged in any form, so having a site that provided information about existing Prince bootlegs is like jumping right into the fire.

I can understand any musician/artist protecting their music material and deservingly so. A music career is a livelihood for many of them, and these days with people stealing music, it takes food off many musicians' tables when fans steal their music. A lot of hard work may go into posting bootleg info on the net, but a lot of hard work and money goes into many musicians paying band members, techs to move equipment, travel, etc., etc., as well. I guess displaying images of an artist of his/her music on bootleg material, and fans discussing them on sites that provide that info, could very well be considered, tempting, encouraging, inviting fans to seek that material for free or where some actually pay for it.

So if a musician feels that's a violation of his/her hard work, then it is not surprising that sites such as TDG and others are forced to shut down. This isn't an attack on TDG, but come on, these days, what long-time Prince fans don't know that Prince does not approve of his music material/live concerts being bootlegged? You take a chance of receiving a C&D when you create easy, accessible public sites like that, even if it's done for the love of said musician's music.

[Edited 9/1/12 12:53pm]

Except for one pesky problem... FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I can talk or write about crack cocaine, robbing banks, or murder without being prosecuted for "tempting, encouraging, inviting" others that may be so inclined to participate in actually comitting those crimes because I'm free to talk about whatever I want. This is a simple concept.

djThunderfunk said:

2elijah said:

I have never heard of TDG, and I don't know what type of information they provided on their site to fans, regarding Prince's music, and my comments are not an attack on them. But if it was a site that provided information on bootleg material or displayed his image on bootleg material, which of course led to discussions of that bootleg material on that site, then it's not surprising they were shutdown. I'm sure they were already aware that Prince was against his music/concert shows being bootlegged in any form, so having a site that provided information about existing Prince bootlegs is like jumping right into the fire.

I can understand any musician/artist protecting their music material and deservingly so. A music career is a livelihood for many of them, and these days with people stealing music, it takes food off many musicians' tables when fans steal their music. A lot of hard work may go into posting bootleg info on the net, but a lot of hard work and money goes into many musicians paying band members, techs to move equipment, travel, etc., etc., as well. I guess displaying images of an artist of his/her music on bootleg material, and fans discussing them on sites that provide that info, could very well be considered, tempting, encouraging, inviting fans to seek that material for free or where some actually pay for it.

So if a musician feels that's a violation of his/her hard work, then it is not surprising that sites such as TDG and others are forced to shut down. This isn't an attack on TDG, but come on, these days, what long-time Prince fans don't know that Prince does not approve of his music material/live concerts being bootlegged? You take a chance of receiving a C&D when you create easy, accessible public sites like that, even if it's done for the love of said musician's music.

[Edited 9/1/12 12:53pm]

Except for one pesky problem... FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I can talk or write about crack cocaine, robbing banks, or murder without being prosecuted for "tempting, encouraging, inviting" others that may be so inclined to participate in actually comitting those crimes because I'm free to talk about whatever I want. This is a simple concept.

You think there is actual freedom of speech in the world?

Bohemian67 said:

WaterInYourBath said:

Yet, no one owes him anything either.

We owe him at least some respect.

If you spent days, weeks, months preparing for a product (concert) employing and paying people to produce it with an end result, the product is not ours. We get the change to buy tickets to view it.

No matter how beautiful and well intentioned the site was, from a legal perspective, it would be seen as a natural chain of events with foreseen circumstances that the information regarding the boots existence would lead to 1. searching for them 2. buying 3. downloading for free. Kind of like the marketing of 'black non taxed smuggled goods.'

The thing is, its Prince's legal right. He got burnt big time with Warner, plus he took them on, so I don't think we have much chance against him. He's kind of like a corporate himself and he's within his legal rights. The law has to stand for something and he's using it. It's understandable and reasonable.

From his point of view, when he gives us free music via Dr Funk, or here, people complain and critisize non-stop. I had just joined the site when Shelby sent the links of the Montreux footage. The spite against her for the gift was unbelievable! Few could handle the fact that Prince had chosen to distribute things his way and it infuriated them. So it seems Prince fans want too much control over his stuff. Yet when he controls it and gives it to us it gets rejected and anihilated in terms of quality by many here. The way it is right now it's a losing game for Prince and if Prince loses, we also lose.

Again, bullshit argument. See my post above.

Do you want to know how I learned of the existence of a bootleg market of Prince recordings? Too bad, I'll tell ya anyway....

Back in December 1987 I read about the Black Album being canceled and subsequently bootlegged in my LOCAL NEWSPAPER. Not long after that I read a review of the Black Album in ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE. The review was clear that the album was a bootleg and that Prince canceled the album and didn't want it released.

This information led me to search out the Black Album. When I found it I also found other bootlegs, both live and outtake collections, of material I had never heard of. I've been hooked on Prince bootlegs ever since. I spent tons of $$ on them over the next 10 years, right up till I got a CD burner and started trading with others followed by finding them for free online. Haven't PAID for one since.

But I digress... my point is, by your logic, my local newspaper and Rolling Stone should be held accountable for encouraging me to seek out and buy bootlegs. Not just me either. Many, many, many obsessed Prince fans came to collecting bootlegs this way. Just ask around.

There is no law preventing people from talking about or reviewing material that is circulating just because it doesn't happen to be officially released. And that's a good thing...

electricberet said:

OzlemUcucu said:

No, I didn't enjoy the concert, howeve it had nothing to do with the stuff on display 4 him, that we had in our team. Obviously, it's not about teachin him a lesson, and you shouldn't be doing that on your own. As I said, you need to be a bunch of people, and it's the only way to make your voice heard if you want to communite something to him!

He'll react to it, that's all I know!

I don't know. I'm skeptical. Does anyone else think this would be a good idea?

I think it might turn out that you pay to get to Chicago, you pay to get into the show, you get kicked out, you pay to get home...

If that happened, then it would be a horrible idea.

Best case scenario, you don't get kicked out, you see a great show (lotsa fans in Chicago), he doesn't give a flying fuk about you or your t-shirts.

I wouldn't do it. I'm all for protests, I just think the odds of it being effective in this case are slim. If you decide to do it anyway, I can't wait to hear how it turned out though...

rdhull said:

djThunderfunk said:

Except for one pesky problem... FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I can talk or write about crack cocaine, robbing banks, or murder without being prosecuted for "tempting, encouraging, inviting" others that may be so inclined to participate in actually comitting those crimes because I'm free to talk about whatever I want. This is a simple concept.

You think there is actual freedom of speech in the world?

Thanks to Republicans AND Democrats, not really. But as long as we're pretending we're still free, I'll keep reminding everyone what that means...

[Edited 9/1/12 20:56pm]

djThunderfunk said:

I think it might be interesting to try if you lived in Chicago, particularly if you're seeing multiple shows. If a bunch of fans got kicked out and it made the local news, it could bring attention to the issue. But if I tried it, it sounds like I would be the only one and your first scenario is likely. So I think I will just skip it and register my displeasure that way, not that anyone cares.
[Edited 9/1/12 21:17pm]