djThunderfunk said:

electricberet said:

My point is that I think this is a shortsighted PR strategy by Prince given that his main source of income seems to be concerts.

I would say that his main source of income comes directly from the fans that are obsessed enough to collect bootlegs or to create websites discussing him and his work. Those are the same people that buy every release and they are probably the only people that would consider buying an Andy Allo CD because of he's on it. That's the truth and we all know it.

It seems, Prince would like to ignore this fact and believe that we are somehow stealing from him when in reality we're the only ones left that are happy to give him our money for his art.

I agree with you. I think he will most likely get away with shutting down TDG because, although it was a great site, only a fraction of orgers were using it, as evidenced by the many comments on these threads assuming that TDG provided links to bootlegs rather than just discussion. But if Prince tries to stop discussion of bootlegs on the org, that will come back to bite him. The only reason I have heard of Andy Allo or Prince's concert in Chicago is because of this site. Yes, I could find this information on Dr. Funkenberry's website, but that is another source I only found out about through the org, and, let's face it, how long is Dr. Funkenberry's page going to stay up?

electricberet said:

djThunderfunk said:

I would say that his main source of income comes directly from the fans that are obsessed enough to collect bootlegs or to create websites discussing him and his work. Those are the same people that buy every release and they are probably the only people that would consider buying an Andy Allo CD because of he's on it. That's the truth and we all know it.

It seems, Prince would like to ignore this fact and believe that we are somehow stealing from him when in reality we're the only ones left that are happy to give him our money for his art.

I agree with you. I think he will most likely get away with shutting down TDG because, although it was a great site, only a fraction of orgers were using it, as evidenced by the many comments on these threads assuming that TDG provided links to bootlegs rather than just discussion. But if Prince tries to stop discussion of bootlegs on the org, that will come back to bite him. The only reason I have heard of Andy Allo or Prince's concert in Chicago is because of this site. Yes, I could find this information on Dr. Funkenberry's website, but that is another source I only found out about through the org, and, let's face it, how long is Dr. Funkenberry's page going to stay up?

Many of us joined this site in the first place because it was the only way to find out when and where Prince would be performing, as well as catching up on all the stuff we didn't know for years. Without sites like this, Prince would find his audiences for live performances shrinking drastically.

I have never heard of TDG, and I don't know what type of information they provided on their site to fans, regarding Prince's music, and my comments are not an attack on them. But if it was a site that provided information on bootleg material or displayed his image on bootleg material, which of course led to discussions of that bootleg material on that site, then it's not surprising they were shutdown. I'm sure they were already aware that Prince was against his music/concert shows being bootlegged in any form, so having a site that provided information about existing Prince bootlegs is like jumping right into the fire.

I can understand any musician/artist protecting their music material and deservingly so. A music career is a livelihood for many of them, and these days with people stealing music, it takes food off many musicians' tables when fans steal their music. A lot of hard work may go into posting bootleg info on the net, but a lot of hard work and money goes into many musicians paying band members, techs to move equipment, travel, etc., etc., as well. I guess displaying images of an artist of his/her music on bootleg material, and fans discussing them on sites that provide that info, could very well be considered, tempting, encouraging, inviting fans to seek that material for free or where some actually pay for it.

So if a musician feels that's a violation of his/her hard work, then it is not surprising that sites such as TDG and others are forced to shut down. This isn't an attack on TDG, but come on, these days, what long-time Prince fans don't know that Prince does not approve of his music material/live concerts being bootlegged? You take a chance of receiving a C&D when you create easy, accessible public sites like that, even if it's done for the love of said musician's music.

[Edited 9/1/12 12:53pm]

Flaunt said:

Unfortunately we had little time to mount any form of protest or counter arguement. The hosting company also received the take down notice and, naturally, decided it wasn't worth the hassle and told us the site would be removed in a matter of hours.

The site was backed up in one form or another but not the way I would have liked so whether it can ever be restored properly, I just don't know at this time. Thanks for your messages of support. It's a real pisser he's chosen to be a dick again but I'm actually surprised it took this long.

In the meantime, we're still active on the popular social media sites if you're after updates etc. Not sure how long that will last but fingers crossed. Thanks everyone

[Edited 9/1/12 0:42am]

Well, no offense, but I think if you had any plans to resolve the issue with your site with him, I don't think calling him a "d*ck" publically, would be the smart way to go. After all, it is his music material you're talking about, and he has a right to say how he doesn't want it distributed to the public, even if it involved a site that gave out information on existing bootlegs of his music. I never saw your site, so don't know what you displayed on it.

[Edited 9/1/12 12:08pm]

2elijah said:

Flaunt said:

Unfortunately we had little time to mount any form of protest or counter arguement. The hosting company also received the take down notice and, naturally, decided it wasn't worth the hassle and told us the site would be removed in a matter of hours.

The site was backed up in one form or another but not the way I would have liked so whether it can ever be restored properly, I just don't know at this time. Thanks for your messages of support. It's a real pisser he's chosen to be a dick again but I'm actually surprised it took this long.

In the meantime, we're still active on the popular social media sites if you're after updates etc. Not sure how long that will last but fingers crossed. Thanks everyone

[Edited 9/1/12 0:42am]

Well, no offense, but I think if you had any plans to resolve the issue with your site with him, I don't think calling him a "d*ck" publically, would be the smart way to go. After all, it is his music material you're talking about, and he has a right to say how he doesn't want it distributed to the public, even if it involved a site that gave out information on existing bootlegs of his music. I never saw your site, so don't know what you displayed on it.

[Edited 9/1/12 12:08pm]

No, I never had plans to resolve it with him. It would be like a pencil with no lead in it.......pointless. And no, we never gave out information on these recordings other than cataloguing their existence. Nothing more.

[Edited 9/1/12 12:24pm]

Flaunt said:

2elijah said:

Well, no offense, but I think if you had any plans to resolve the issue with your site with him, I don't think calling him a "d*ck" publically, would be the smart way to go. After all, it is his music material you're talking about, and he has a right to say how he doesn't want it distributed to the public, even if it involved a site that gave out information on existing bootlegs of his music. I never saw your site, so don't know what you displayed on it.

[Edited 9/1/12 12:08pm]

No, I never had plans to resolve it with him. It would be like a pencil with no lead in it.......pointless. And no, we never gave out information on these recordings other than cataloguing their existence. Nothing more.

[Edited 9/1/12 12:24pm]

[Edited 9/1/12 13:33pm]

Flaunt said:

2elijah said:

Well, no offense, but I think if you had any plans to resolve the issue with your site with him, I don't think calling him a "d*ck" publically, would be the smart way to go. After all, it is his music material you're talking about, and he has a right to say how he doesn't want it distributed to the public, even if it involved a site that gave out information on existing bootlegs of his music. I never saw your site, so don't know what you displayed on it.

[Edited 9/1/12 12:08pm]

No, I never had plans to resolve it with him. It would be like a pencil with no lead in it.......pointless. And no, we never gave out information on these recordings other than cataloguing their existence. Nothing more.

[Edited 9/1/12 12:24pm]

Ok, thanks for responding, but I guess the cataloguing of those existing bootlegs on a public site, could be seen like advertising existing bootlegs of his music, which more than likely creates discussion and interest in fans to seek those bootlegs. That could be the way he may have seen it, and could possibly be the reason your site was shutdown. Just a guess. I'm not trying to speak against you, just looking at the whole situation with an open mind.

'be' edit

[Edited 9/1/12 14:55pm]

Flaunt said:

Unfortunately we had little time to mount any form of protest or counter arguement. The hosting company also received the take down notice and, naturally, decided it wasn't worth the hassle and told us the site would be removed in a matter of hours.

The site was backed up in one form or another but not the way I would have liked so whether it can ever be restored properly, I just don't know at this time. Thanks for your messages of support. It's a real pisser he's chosen to be a dick again but I'm actually surprised it took this long.

In the meantime, we're still active on the popular social media sites if you're after updates etc. Not sure how long that will last but fingers crossed. Thanks everyone

[Edited 9/1/12 0:42am]

much love and resepct 2 u flaunt

WaterInYourBath said:

Bohemian67 said:

Continuing to add fuel to the fire when he doesn't owe us anything is not a smart move.

Yet, no one owes him anything either.

We owe him at least some respect.

If you spent days, weeks, months preparing for a product (concert) employing and paying people to produce it with an end result, the product is not ours. We get the change to buy tickets to view it.

No matter how beautiful and well intentioned the site was, from a legal perspective, it would be seen as a natural chain of events with foreseen circumstances that the information regarding the boots existence would lead to 1. searching for them 2. buying 3. downloading for free. Kind of like the marketing of 'black non taxed smuggled goods.'

The thing is, its Prince's legal right. He got burnt big time with Warner, plus he took them on, so I don't think we have much chance against him. He's kind of like a corporate himself and he's within his legal rights. The law has to stand for something and he's using it. It's understandable and reasonable.

From his point of view, when he gives us free music via Dr Funk, or here, people complain and critisize non-stop. I had just joined the site when Shelby sent the links of the Montreux footage. The spite against her for the gift was unbelievable! Few could handle the fact that Prince had chosen to distribute things his way and it infuriated them. So it seems Prince fans want too much control over his stuff. Yet when he controls it and gives it to us it gets rejected and anihilated in terms of quality by many here. The way it is right now it's a losing game for Prince and if Prince loses, we also lose.

This sucks,but it's not surprising.I remember in the late 90s when Prince went to war with Uptown and tried to shut them down an artist going to war with his own fans....unbelievable!

Bohemian67 said:

WaterInYourBath said:

Yet, no one owes him anything either.

We owe him at least some respect.

If you spent days, weeks, months preparing for a product (concert) employing and paying people to produce it with an end result, the product is not ours. We get the change to buy tickets to view it.

No matter how beautiful and well intentioned the site was, from a legal perspective, it would be seen as a natural chain of events with foreseen circumstances that the information regarding the boots existence would lead to 1. searching for them 2. buying 3. downloading for free. Kind of like the marketing of 'black non taxed smuggled goods.'

The thing is, its Prince's legal right. He got burnt big time with Warner, plus he took them on, so I don't think we have much chance against him. He's kind of like a corporate himself and he's within his legal rights. The law has to stand for something and he's using it. It's understandable and reasonable.

From his point of view, when he gives us free music via Dr Funk, or here, people complain and critisize non-stop. I had just joined the site when Shelby sent the links of the Montreux footage. The spite against her for the gift was unbelievable! Few could handle the fact that Prince had chosen to distribute things his way and it infuriated them. So it seems Prince fans want too much control over his stuff. Yet when he controls it and gives it to us it gets rejected and anihilated in terms of quality by many here. The way it is right now it's a losing game for Prince and if Prince loses, we also lose.

Do you think bootlegs pose any threat whatsoever to Prince's concert revenue? If Prince were playing a concert in my town tonight, the fact that I might be able to listen to a bootleg of it later would not factor at all into my decision to go or not go. No recording compares to the experience of seeing a concert live.

But whether bootlegs are good or bad is not the point. Prince obviously has the legal right to sue to stop people from circulating bootlegs. But for discussing them? How many of us on here have made a comment of some kind about a bootleg in this forum? Could he sue all of us? What's the distinction between cataloging and discussing? And even if he had the legal right, is this a smart move for Prince? Should we, his fans, just be quiet and take it? If he shuts down other fan sites, including this one, we won't have a choice.

I wonder if Prince personally approved this move from his lawyers. I'd like to hear a response from his camp. Of course I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

electricberet said:

electricberet said:

Bohemian67 said:

Do you think bootlegs pose any threat whatsoever to Prince's concert revenue? If Prince were playing a concert in my town tonight, the fact that I might be able to listen to a bootleg of it later would not factor at all into my decision to go or not go. No recording compares to the experience of seeing a concert live.

But whether bootlegs are good or bad is not the point. Prince obviously has the legal right to sue to stop people from circulating bootlegs. But for discussing them? How many of us on here have made a comment of some kind about a bootleg in this forum? Could he sue all of us? What's the distinction between cataloging and discussing? And even if he had the legal right, is this a smart move for Prince? Should we, his fans, just be quiet and take it? If he shuts down other fan sites, including this one, we won't have a choice.

I wonder if Prince personally approved this move from his lawyers. I'd like to hear a response from his camp. Of course I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

See the other internet thread. It's not about the $ for him. At least I don't think so.

I don't think he can do anything about people discussing them, although I suppose it also advertises that it's out there. As long as its incidental I can't see how the site can be closed down. The site clearly states its bootleg rules.

If the police were trying to cut down on smuggled goods and found sites which told you where to find them they'd be shut down. If there was a site that incidently discussed them, they'd probably keep an eye on the site.

I watched something from I think the time he opened the 1800 Funk internet site, tonight on everybody loves me tube In it he's being interviewed and says 'I want to hear what people like so I can make the music/use their likes to give what the people want' Bad quote, of mine, it was something to that effect. There was a very optimistic, open, fan-loving Prince. When you think of his intentions and what it became with 'fans giving their likes' it's a long hard road travelled for both sides of the fence.

We can't fight for TDG it 'advertised' the illegal. We can shout all we want but its not going to help. Still, I get when I'm looking on international media sites enough to keep me happy. I don't need bootleg sites. So it doesn't affect me. Even though stuff gets pulled, and think of the amount, there are still millions of views if you add it all up, so the music is getting out there, only it's not ours to keep, unless he gives it to us.

Bohemian67 said:

electricberet said:

Do you think bootlegs pose any threat whatsoever to Prince's concert revenue? If Prince were playing a concert in my town tonight, the fact that I might be able to listen to a bootleg of it later would not factor at all into my decision to go or not go. No recording compares to the experience of seeing a concert live.

But whether bootlegs are good or bad is not the point. Prince obviously has the legal right to sue to stop people from circulating bootlegs. But for discussing them? How many of us on here have made a comment of some kind about a bootleg in this forum? Could he sue all of us? What's the distinction between cataloging and discussing? And even if he had the legal right, is this a smart move for Prince? Should we, his fans, just be quiet and take it? If he shuts down other fan sites, including this one, we won't have a choice.

I wonder if Prince personally approved this move from his lawyers. I'd like to hear a response from his camp. Of course I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

See the other internet thread. It's not about the $ for him. At least I don't think so.

I don't think he can do anything about people discussing them, although I suppose it also advertises that it's out there. As long as its incidental I can't see how the site can be closed down. The site clearly states its bootleg rules.

If the police were trying to cut down on smuggled goods and found sites which told you where to find them they'd be shut down. If there was a site that incidently discussed them, they'd probably keep an eye on the site.

I watched something from I think the time he opened the 1800 Funk internet site, tonight on everybody loves me tube In it he's being interviewed and says 'I want to hear what people like so I can make the music/use their likes to give what the people want' Bad quote, of mine, it was something to that effect. There was a very optimistic, open, fan-loving Prince. When you think of his intentions and what it became with 'fans giving their likes' it's a long hard road travelled for both sides of the fence.

We can't fight for TDG it 'advertised' the illegal. We can shout all we want but its not going to help. Still, I get when I'm looking on international media sites enough to keep me happy. I don't need bootleg sites. So it doesn't affect me. Even though stuff gets pulled, and think of the amount, there are still millions of views if you add it all up, so the music is getting out there, only it's not ours to keep, unless he gives it to us.

That was back when Warner Brothers was the bad guy and he wanted to cut them out of the picture so that he can connect directly with the fans. There was an earlier quote in an interview--I think in Rolling Stone--where he said he wished he could just materialize in people's cribs, or something to that effect.

Apparently, now that the bad record company is out of the picture, the bad guys are fans who distribute, download, and listen to bootlegs. But those are his most dedicated and longtime fans. As long as he wants to keep playing concerts, he will be able to fill most of the seats. People in Chicago will read about these upcoming shows and say, "Oh yeah, I remember him, the Purple Rain guy. Should we go to that, or see a movie instead?" But I recall reading reports of recent concerts where he asked the audience to sing along to some of his older hits and was frustrated that they didn't know the words. Well, the ones who know all the words are the ones who are listening to the bootlegs. Does he really want to scare all of us off?

I posted a comment on Dr. Funkenberry's page saying that I don't want to go see him in Chicago unless he lifts the ban on TDG. Another commenter responded, "thanks for not coming…yay! You definitely won’t be missed and your absence certainly won’t stop the show from happening." Is that how Prince feels? I don't know.

BlackCandle said:

You know what...? Someone needs to print a load of DIGITAL GARDEN Teeshirts and have all the Chicago concertgoers wear them. Really shove it in his face.

Yeah, that will really show him. Meanwhile Prince and 10,000 other people will be rockin the house while all 15 of you have those shirts on...grimacing

rdhull said:

BlackCandle said:

rdhull said:

Yeah, that will really show him. Meanwhile Prince and 10,000 other people will be rockin the house while all 15 of you have those shirts on...grimacing

LOL. True. I better work on getting all 15 of us in VIP...

rdhull said:

BlackCandle said:

rdhull said: LOL. True. I better work on getting all 15 of us in VIP...

A better one would be a t-shirt that says stop sending C&D to fans...first row seats...!

electricberet said:

There was a very optimistic, open, fan-loving Prince.

That was back when Warner Brothers was the bad guy and he wanted to cut them out of the picture so that he can connect directly with the fans. There was an earlier quote in an interview--I think in Rolling Stone--where he said he wished he could just materialize in people's cribs, or something to that effect.

Apparently, now that the bad record company is out of the picture, the bad guys are fans who distribute, download, and listen to bootlegs. But those are his most dedicated and longtime fans. As long as he wants to keep playing concerts, he will be able to fill most of the seats. People in Chicago will read about these upcoming shows and say, "Oh yeah, I remember him, the Purple Rain guy. Should we go to that, or see a movie instead?" But I recall reading reports of recent concerts where he asked the audience to sing along to some of his older hits and was frustrated that they didn't know the words. Well, the ones who know all the words are the ones who are listening to the bootlegs. Does he really want to scare all of us off?

I posted a comment on Dr. Funkenberry's page saying that I don't want to go see him in Chicago unless he lifts the ban on TDG. Another commenter responded, "thanks for not coming…yay! You definitely won’t be missed and your absence certainly won’t stop the show from happening." Is that how Prince feels? I don't know.

In my opinion the bad record companies are all over the place still. My nieces live on another continent, send me a video which they took days to choreograph (9 + 11) and Universal says 'no you can't listen to lady Gaga for free.' ??? And there are loads of videos out there with that issue.

I wish someone would do a research of how many bootleg 'hard core' fans there are, that are being disappointed. I think they, and us who enjoy them are in the minority. The thing is, the messages we read in the information overload are not always truthful or objective. e.g. they didn't know the words. One opinion. But bad news for us , he'll just play the hits again.

I absolutely understand his stance about the illegal downloads, it's fine. Not the reply to you on Dr. Funk. but then also, there's no point in trying chantage, (blackmail) because any good negotiator knows, never yield to pressure. He's a major artist, he has status and he can control his product. Our 'Voice of Holland' does the same with videos of those who 'made it' coz they need to make money.

Maybe in the end it's all good, and for a reason. It means we need to concentrate more on the smaller struggling artists. Or the ones, that due to this mega download age, will never evolve to mega rich super stars. So we keep something authentic. Like this nice one from Holland for example. http://www.youtube.com/wa...32PkXJlsCc Can't find the insert link.

@ yall n ninjas tlking bout 'boycot'..man get the fuck outa here..aint nobody boyoitting a dman thing

helf yall talking about bringing t shirts with sayings but still end up going to the show..yall aint crazy to sit out the baddest cat still in the game doing it

"boycot'..yall dont even believe in doing that your damn selves

You mean Prince is now the bad guy?!

rdhull said:

@ yall n ninjas tlking bout 'boycot'..man get the fuck outa here..aint nobody boyoitting a dman thing

helf yall talking about bringing t shirts with sayings but still end up going to the show..yall aint crazy to sit out the baddest cat still in the game doing it

"boycot'..yall dont even believe in doing that your damn selves

I'm as serious as a crazy person can be. The hold on my tickets to Chicago expires at midnight. I even forwarded my itinerary to Dr. Funkenberry.

Prince, you have a decision to make. Do you want the famous Electricberet at your concert, or not? The clock is ticking...

rdhull said:

@ yall n ninjas tlking bout 'boycot'..man get the fuck outa here..aint nobody boyoitting a dman thing

helf yall talking about bringing t shirts with sayings but still end up going to the show..yall aint crazy to sit out the baddest cat still in the game doing it

"boycot'..yall dont even believe in doing that your damn selves

They'll probably get their asses thrown out for sure or seen as a threat to P's security.

[Edited 9/1/12 16:16pm]

rdhull said:

@ yall n ninjas tlking bout 'boycot'..man get the fuck outa here..aint nobody boyoitting a dman thing

helf yall talking about bringing t shirts with sayings but still end up going to the show..yall aint crazy to sit out the baddest cat still in the game doing it

"boycot'..yall dont even believe in doing that your damn selves

I know from experience that Prince reacts to t-shirts etc. stuff on display for him to see, if fans are wearing them and are front stage, making it visible for him to see at those gigs.

I know cause I experience it.

OzlemUcucu said:

rdhull said:

@ yall n ninjas tlking bout 'boycot'..man get the fuck outa here..aint nobody boyoitting a dman thing

helf yall talking about bringing t shirts with sayings but still end up going to the show..yall aint crazy to sit out the baddest cat still in the game doing it

"boycot'..yall dont even believe in doing that your damn selves

I know from experience that Prince reacts to t-shirts etc. stuff on display for him to see, if fans are wearing them and are front stage, making it visible for him to see at those gigs.

I know cause I experience it.

Maybe we could pull a Harvey Pekar move and change our shirts after we've made it past security:

electricberet said:

rdhull said:

@ yall n ninjas tlking bout 'boycot'..man get the fuck outa here..aint nobody boyoitting a dman thing

helf yall talking about bringing t shirts with sayings but still end up going to the show..yall aint crazy to sit out the baddest cat still in the game doing it

"boycot'..yall dont even believe in doing that your damn selves

I'm as serious as a crazy person can be. The hold on my tickets to Chicago expires at midnight. I even forwarded my itinerary to Dr. Funkenberry.

Prince, you have a decision to make. Do you want the famous Electricberet at your concert, or not? The clock is ticking...

but on the real..prince still keeps winning..because even still with all his ..supposed...as yall claim..bad behavior..you guys are still willing to possibly go see him live..will still buy his cds..and at the very least..still have him or something associated with him as yalls avatar

You guys are just being silly and obsessed overall for it to get yall so heated...everyone should calm down and take a break from Prince for a fe years or so if yall are this caught up or else risk becoming mini Bartvanhemelins..and that's not good

.

[Edited 9/1/12 16:13pm]

electricberet said:

OzlemUcucu said:

I know from experience that Prince reacts to t-shirts etc. stuff on display for him to see, if fans are wearing them and are front stage, making it visible for him to see at those gigs.

I know cause I experience it.

Maybe we could pull a Harvey Pekar move and change our shirts after we've made it past security:

You will need t-shirts, banners etc...with a message, not the TGD but generally about his attitude on shutting down fansites.

Also it helps if you are a about 30 ppl. upwards, which was the case with us. Front seats, close to the stage. Yep, he read, he spoke about it. This is the only way to show him what U wanna say.

Trust me, he notices it! Maybe you should go to the Chicago gig and team up with others for this cause.