wonder505 said:

djThunderfunk said:

People seem to forget that we could make "illegal" copies before the internet. My cousin had 1999 on cassette when I discovered it. I was going to make a copy, until I listened to it, and decided it was good enough to buy. Plenty of other albums by other artists, I liked, but only enough to pay for a blank cassette to make a copy, not enough to buy my own original. If it's good enough, there are people who will pay for it, then and now.

Converting a YouTube video to an MP3 usually sounds like shit. There are many better ways to make "illegal" copies.

Plenty of kids discover an artists they like and then buy the albums. Many of them that have discovered Prince and started buying his CDs are members of this site.

[Edited 8/24/12 21:30pm]

Well i can only base my observations on the kids I know who have these external hard drives with thousands of songs they never paid for.

and converting a youtube vid to mp3 does not sound as shitty as you make it out be

i still wish for Prince to use youtube as a tool but we'll see what the future holds.

[Edited 8/25/12 11:38am]

Well, like for you, I can only base my own observation on kids I know. I work with a lot of "kids" in their late teens & early twenties (yes, they are kids to me ), some of them know their way around torrents and have hard drives full of "free" songs, but, even more of them don't know how to use torrents or are afraid too, or don't mind buying what they listen to.

Interestingly, the kids I know who are under 18 don't even like real music because they've grown up thinking American Idol and shows like it are the arbiter of musical talent. They think that shit is what music is all about. They don't buy or download music, they just listen to whatever comes their way. Sad. I'd rather a kid download Jimi Hendrix' or Miles Davis' entire discography for free and learn about real music than have them listen to today's top 40 legally.

As far as YouTube conversions. Check em out on a good sound system, compare them to mp3 rips of CDs or vinyl... there's a big frigging drop in quality.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

djThunderfunk said:

People seem to forget that we could make "illegal" copies before the internet. My cousin had 1999 on cassette when I discovered it. I was going to make a copy, until I listened to it, and decided it was good enough to buy. Plenty of other albums by other artists, I liked, but only enough to pay for a blank cassette to make a copy, not enough to buy my own original. If it's good enough, there are people who will pay for it, then and now.

Converting a YouTube video to an MP3 usually sounds like shit. There are many better ways to make "illegal" copies.

Plenty of kids discover an artists they like and then buy the albums. Many of them that have discovered Prince and started buying his CDs are members of this site.

[Edited 8/24/12 21:30pm]

Good point! It seems peeps never made a big deal out of blank cassettes that we're used to copy albums back then. It was still the same as burning copies today instead of going to the Wreka Stow....

Oh, yes they did!

Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...pying_levy

The RIAA insisted that the advent of cassette recorders & blank tapes would bankrupt the industry. They claimed nobody would buy music if they could make their own copies. The arguments would seem like deja vu to anyone following the claims against digital piracy. The big difference of course, is that back then you had to personally know someone who had an original to make a copy. Now, you just need the internet.

djThunderfunk said:

wonder505 said:

Well i can only base my observations on the kids I know who have these external hard drives with thousands of songs they never paid for.

and converting a youtube vid to mp3 does not sound as shitty as you make it out be

i still wish for Prince to use youtube as a tool but we'll see what the future holds.

[Edited 8/25/12 11:38am]

Well, like for you, I can only base my own observation on kids I know. I work with a lot of "kids" in their late teens & early twenties (yes, they are kids to me ), some of them know their way around torrents and have hard drives full of "free" songs, but, even more of them don't know how to use torrents or are afraid too, or don't mind buying what they listen to.

Interestingly, the kids I know who are under 18 don't even like real music because they've grown up thinking American Idol and shows like it are the arbiter of musical talent. They think that shit is what music is all about. They don't buy or download music, they just listen to whatever comes their way. Sad. I'd rather a kid download Jimi Hendrix' or Miles Davis' entire discography for free and learn about real music than have them listen to today's top 40 legally.

As far as YouTube conversions. Check em out on a good sound system, compare them to mp3 rips of CDs or vinyl... there's a big frigging drop in quality.

Many young people do buy Cds, and a few even buy vinyl after getting into it from their parents, but in the case of Prince, his legacy is slipping a little, and there is no huge herd of people of any age foaming at the mouth for remasters, new albums, or anything really. Go to a Best Buy, and walk around the music section, and if you spend 20 minutes or more, you will not likely see anybody even approach the Prince section.

Just 10 years ago, I could easily strike up a conversation with somebody at the Prince section, because SOMEBODY would be there. 20 years ago, there would be somebody there within 5 minutes.

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:

Well, like for you, I can only base my own observation on kids I know. I work with a lot of "kids" in their late teens & early twenties (yes, they are kids to me ), some of them know their way around torrents and have hard drives full of "free" songs, but, even more of them don't know how to use torrents or are afraid too, or don't mind buying what they listen to.

Interestingly, the kids I know who are under 18 don't even like real music because they've grown up thinking American Idol and shows like it are the arbiter of musical talent. They think that shit is what music is all about. They don't buy or download music, they just listen to whatever comes their way. Sad. I'd rather a kid download Jimi Hendrix' or Miles Davis' entire discography for free and learn about real music than have them listen to today's top 40 legally.

As far as YouTube conversions. Check em out on a good sound system, compare them to mp3 rips of CDs or vinyl... there's a big frigging drop in quality.

Many young people do buy Cds, and a few even buy vinyl after getting into it from their parents, but in the case of Prince, his legacy is slipping a little, and there is no huge herd of people of any age foaming at the mouth for remasters, new albums, or anything really. Go to a Best Buy, and walk around the music section, and if you spend 20 minutes or more, you will not likely see anybody even approach the Prince section.

Just 10 years ago, I could easily strike up a conversation with somebody at the Prince section, because SOMEBODY would be there. 20 years ago, there would be somebody there within 5 minutes.

Really how big is the Prince section in a Best Buy? About all of 10 inches of CD space tops? The concept that Best Buy & Target are music stores is laughable. They sell a certain amount of product as long as it's profitable and when it no longer is the music section shrinks in their store. Tower was a record store. HMV was a record store. Best Buy is a joke for anyone looking for a broad spectrum of music.

Really how big is the Prince section in a Best Buy? About all of 10 inches of CD space tops? The concept that Best Buy & Target are music stores is laughable. They sell a certain amount of product as long as it's profitable and when it no longer is the music section shrinks in their store. Tower was a record store. HMV was a record store. Best Buy is a joke for anyone looking for a broad spectrum of music.

Call them a joke, but they are about the only major retailer where you can buy nearly his entire catalog online, and most stores stock the Controversy, 1999, Dirty Mind, and Purple Rain reissues on Vinyl. Most stores have Parade and Around TWIAD in the 4.99 section, and some still have the Rainbow Children.

Same thing at some of the few remaining Used Cd/Vinyl stores, or any of the few places you can buy music. My point is Prince does not generate excitement with any of the few remaining avenues to sell music. I wish he did, but he doesn't. Live DVDs, New releases, whatever....other than a few freaks here, nobody will buy. 3121 is the last album he had go Gold without a huge gimmick. Lotus Flow3r went Gold after they dropped the price to as low as 49 cents at some locations, and never above 4.99.

Sadly, most of the artists I admire don't generate excitement anymore, but it seems Prince is really pushed to the back of the line.

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:

Well, like for you, I can only base my own observation on kids I know. I work with a lot of "kids" in their late teens & early twenties (yes, they are kids to me ), some of them know their way around torrents and have hard drives full of "free" songs, but, even more of them don't know how to use torrents or are afraid too, or don't mind buying what they listen to.

Interestingly, the kids I know who are under 18 don't even like real music because they've grown up thinking American Idol and shows like it are the arbiter of musical talent. They think that shit is what music is all about. They don't buy or download music, they just listen to whatever comes their way. Sad. I'd rather a kid download Jimi Hendrix' or Miles Davis' entire discography for free and learn about real music than have them listen to today's top 40 legally.

As far as YouTube conversions. Check em out on a good sound system, compare them to mp3 rips of CDs or vinyl... there's a big frigging drop in quality.

Many young people do buy Cds, and a few even buy vinyl after getting into it from their parents, but in the case of Prince, his legacy is slipping a little, and there is no huge herd of people of any age foaming at the mouth for remasters, new albums, or anything really. Go to a Best Buy, and walk around the music section, and if you spend 20 minutes or more, you will not likely see anybody even approach the Prince section.

Just 10 years ago, I could easily strike up a conversation with somebody at the Prince section, because SOMEBODY would be there. 20 years ago, there would be somebody there within 5 minutes.

A 22yr old I work with told me he bought a bunch of old Prince albums on vinyl at a used record shop so I sold him a couple of my doubles and gave him a vinyl copy of Ice Cream Castles. Vinyl is hip with the young people I work with. They prefer it to downloading mp3s.

djThunderfunk said:

A 22yr old I work with told me he bought a bunch of old Prince albums on vinyl at a used record shop so I sold him a couple of my doubles and gave him a vinyl copy of Ice Cream Castles. Vinyl is hip with the young people I work with. They prefer it to downloading mp3s.

Still, there is not some huge army of 22 year olds rushing out to get Prince vinyl. Having an operating turntable, and actually buying used Prince vinyl is something only a few would even buy. Other than the overflowing amount of young people you work with who buy Prince on vinyl, I maintain that my perception is usually pretty much spot on.

If there were these huge packs of people buying vinyl, the same 5 vinyl records would not be at the Best Buy. Sadly, Best Buy doesn't care about box sets or vinyl records, as they are on horrible shelfs that will not protect them.

stillwaiting said:

Really how big is the Prince section in a Best Buy? About all of 10 inches of CD space tops? The concept that Best Buy & Target are music stores is laughable. They sell a certain amount of product as long as it's profitable and when it no longer is the music section shrinks in their store. Tower was a record store. HMV was a record store. Best Buy is a joke for anyone looking for a broad spectrum of music.

Call them a joke, but they are about the only major retailer where you can buy nearly his entire catalog online, and most stores stock the Controversy, 1999, Dirty Mind, and Purple Rain reissues on Vinyl. Most stores have Parade and Around TWIAD in the 4.99 section, and some still have the Rainbow Children.

Same thing at some of the few remaining Used Cd/Vinyl stores, or any of the few places you can buy music. My point is Prince does not generate excitement with any of the few remaining avenues to sell music. I wish he did, but he doesn't. Live DVDs, New releases, whatever....other than a few freaks here, nobody will buy. 3121 is the last album he had go Gold without a huge gimmick. Lotus Flow3r went Gold after they dropped the price to as low as 49 cents at some locations, and never above 4.99.

Sadly, most of the artists I admire don't generate excitement anymore, but it seems Prince is really pushed to the back of the line.

What artists today generate that excitement when their muisc is released? Music at Best Buy was an afterthought. They weren't a record store that started selling electronics to stay afloat. They are an electronics store primarily. As you said they sell his stuff mainly online, so why would there be a crowd at the store chomping at the bit for a CD new or old? Most people do buy their music online because there aren't any large record stores around anymore. Lotusflow3r also debuted at number 2 without the aid YouTube. That means some people somewhere got excited enough to go to Target. Huge gimmicks are how new artists move units now. They drop a CD, then 6 months in drop a deluxe CD with more tracks, making the consumer buy the same product twice for a few extra songs and cameo collabos. Prince fans don't even run to the record stores to check the Prince section beacuse after 30 years we have everything that was officially released to us and a mountain more that wasn't.

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:

A 22yr old I work with told me he bought a bunch of old Prince albums on vinyl at a used record shop so I sold him a couple of my doubles and gave him a vinyl copy of Ice Cream Castles. Vinyl is hip with the young people I work with. They prefer it to downloading mp3s.

Still, there is not some huge army of 22 year olds rushing out to get Prince vinyl. Having an operating turntable, and actually buying used Prince vinyl is something only a few would even buy. Other than the overflowing amount of young people you work with who buy Prince on vinyl, I maintain that my perception is usually pretty much spot on.

If there were these huge packs of people buying vinyl, the same 5 vinyl records would not be at the Best Buy. Sadly, Best Buy doesn't care about box sets or vinyl records, as they are on horrible shelfs that will not protect them.

Of course there's not and "overflowing amount of young people" I work with who buy Prince on vinyl. Just the one as far as I know...

Many of them do buy vinyl though. Very few of them go for the 180g expensive stuff. They don't have the greatest turntables and systems and wouldn't truly get the benefit of the 180g upgrade. They mostly buy used records at used record stores and thrift stores at extremely cheap prices.

And, most of them are interested in older music and making their own music (a bunch of them are in local bands). So, maybe some hope for the youth...

cfunk said:

As far as his re-masters, I never believed he re-master his catalog because he's constantly coming up with new music, and that's a lot of damn songs to re-master.

This gave me a good laugh. Prince has already stated that the first 6 albums have been remastered. You to think about what you're saying here. Re-mastering is not Re-recording. Re-mastering is a fairly simple process that the artist doesn't even have to take too active an involvement in. In fact, Prince likely had nothing to do with the mastering of any of his recordings, he likely only had to approve the final product. None of his albums say "Mastered by Prince." Bernie Grundman, and other engineers do this.

The poorly mastered SOTT is due to the analog recording being better suited to Vinyl. The CDs were mastered with low sound levels and hollow bass. The Black Album is even worse. Somebody made a huge mistake by keeping the sound levels really low.

The big problem with remasters now, is that there is not much of a market for them now. Prince's popularity is not getting bigger and bigger as time goes by. There are some delusional fans on this website that think millions of fans will line up at Midnight outside of the few shops that sell cds, and party in the streets when they are announced.

The sad truth is that the market for his remasters other than Purple Rain and 1999 is very small.

The only true reason for wanting them released is for the few die hards that will buy them, and the fact that the young fans who do buy Prince's music will think the recordings sound funny, as they are nowhere near as loud as the overly compressed music of today sounds.

The best remasters are those that are a little louder without compromising the sound. Duran Duran's 2002 remasters were fine. Then they had them mastered again, and Big Thing and Notorious sound so horrible, the life is sucked out of the music.

djThunderfunk said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Good point! It seems peeps never made a big deal out of blank cassettes that we're used to copy albums back then. It was still the same as burning copies today instead of going to the Wreka Stow....

Oh, yes they did!

Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...pying_levy

The RIAA insisted that the advent of cassette recorders & blank tapes would bankrupt the industry. They claimed nobody would buy music if they could make their own copies. The arguments would seem like deja vu to anyone following the claims against digital piracy. The big difference of course, is that back then you had to personally know someone who had an original to make a copy.

No, you didn't. If you had a double tapedeck, you simply needed someone with a tape you could copy. I had a friend who went to visit his uncle in Germany and returned with dozens of tapes of albums his uncle had. And then he made copies of those tapes for me.

The difference is: a decent quality MP3 sounds a lot like the original CD, a tape copy from a tape from a vinyl album is significantly degraded.

But all that taping did encourage my love of music. And now I own I don't know how many CDs, DVDs, LPs, 12"s, Blu-rays,...

stillwaiting said:

cfunk said:

As far as his re-masters, I never believed he re-master his catalog because he's constantly coming up with new music, and that's a lot of damn songs to re-master.

This gave me a good laugh. Prince has already stated that the first 6 albums have been remastered. You to think about what you're saying here. Re-mastering is not Re-recording. Re-mastering is a fairly simple process that the artist doesn't even have to take too active an involvement in. In fact, Prince likely had nothing to do with the mastering of any of his recordings, he likely only had to approve the final product. None of his albums say "Mastered by Prince." Bernie Grundman, and other engineers do this.

The poorly mastered SOTT is due to the analog recording being better suited to Vinyl. The CDs were mastered with low sound levels and hollow bass. The Black Album is even worse. Somebody made a huge mistake by keeping the sound levels really low.

The big problem with remasters now, is that there is not much of a market for them now. Prince's popularity is not getting bigger and bigger as time goes by. There are some delusional fans on this website that think millions of fans will line up at Midnight outside of the few shops that sell cds, and party in the streets when they are announced.

The sad truth is that the market for his remasters other than Purple Rain and 1999 is very small.

The only true reason for wanting them released is for the few die hards that will buy them, and the fact that the young fans who do buy Prince's music will think the recordings sound funny, as they are nowhere near as loud as the overly compressed music of today sounds.

The best remasters are those that are a little louder without compromising the sound. Duran Duran's 2002 remasters were fine. Then they had them mastered again, and Big Thing and Notorious sound so horrible, the life is sucked out of the music.

The sound level problem has been fixed for the first ten albums in the 2009 Japanese CD reissues. The volume has been turned up on all of them compared to the original CDs. If all people want out of Prince "remasters" is louder-sounding CDs, you can buy them now, as those 2009 reissues are back in print. I think that often when people talk about wanting "remasters," what they really want are remixes. If we get those we are going to get Prince's new, reinterpretations of his classic albums. We'll be lucky if he just tinkers with the music and doesn't try to record new lyrics. In either case, it won't be the music we grew up listening to.

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

Oh, yes they did!

Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...pying_levy

The RIAA insisted that the advent of cassette recorders & blank tapes would bankrupt the industry. They claimed nobody would buy music if they could make their own copies. The arguments would seem like deja vu to anyone following the claims against digital piracy. The big difference of course, is that back then you had to personally know someone who had an original to make a copy.

No, you didn't. If you had a double tapedeck, you simply needed someone with a tape you could copy. I had a friend who went to visit his uncle in Germany and returned with dozens of tapes of albums his uncle had. And then he made copies of those tapes for me.

The difference is: a decent quality MP3 sounds a lot like the original CD, a tape copy from a tape from a vinyl album is significantly degraded.

But all that taping did encourage my love of music. And now I own I don't know how many CDs, DVDs, LPs, 12"s, Blu-rays,...

The point I was trying to make was, you had to know someone who had it (original or copy), now you don't need to know a person that has it (original or copy) you only need the internet and you can trade with strangers you never meet.

electricberet said:

I think that often when people talk about wanting "remasters," what they really want are remixes. If we get those we are going to get Prince's new, reinterpretations of his classic albums. We'll be lucky if he just tinkers with the music and doesn't try to record new lyrics. In either case, it won't be the music we grew up listening to.

No. Nobody wants that...

Funny: when mona lisa lost its original gloss, did people ask da vinci to repaint over the original to "update" it?

Or the flip side: Is music like visual art where once it's done, it's done? Or is music so unique as an art form that it needs to be renewed with new technology since it was made with "new" technology (a quote from Jim Morrison comes to mind when he was promoting "The Soft Parade", something like: I think in the future Music is going to be made by a guy in a basement with a bunch of machines. Ten years later "Dirty Mind" came out.) A paint and a brush have been improved by film, but you can't go back and film mona lisa. But you can go back and remaster "Dirty Mind" and not lose the original idea, just amplify it. Just with newer machines. And that would be benificial to all of us. And I reject the fact that religion will hold him back from rereleasing material like "Dirty Mind". It's art. He isn't having sex with his sister literally. It's an idea that puts a picture in your mind of what our current society is compromised of. It takes all types. And albums like Dirty Mind give you a mental picture of that. Parade gives you an idea of how many ways you can love someone. LoveSexy paints a picture of spiritual freedom. And Purple Rain, there are so many beautiful moments on that record that I can't surmise them in a line. Prince made some of the most artistic music of our time. Not just the first ten years, but throughout his career. And to deprive a new generation of that is a crime.

The other day my sister went to a Neil Diamond concert and my nephew asked me, "Who's Neil Diamond?" In twenty years, I don't want that to happen to Prince. He is on another level than Neil Diamond, yes. But if nobody is there to hear that other level, it doesn't matter.

Cmon Prince!

electricberet said:

stillwaiting said:

This gave me a good laugh. Prince has already stated that the first 6 albums have been remastered. You to think about what you're saying here. Re-mastering is not Re-recording. Re-mastering is a fairly simple process that the artist doesn't even have to take too active an involvement in. In fact, Prince likely had nothing to do with the mastering of any of his recordings, he likely only had to approve the final product. None of his albums say "Mastered by Prince." Bernie Grundman, and other engineers do this.

The poorly mastered SOTT is due to the analog recording being better suited to Vinyl. The CDs were mastered with low sound levels and hollow bass. The Black Album is even worse. Somebody made a huge mistake by keeping the sound levels really low.

The big problem with remasters now, is that there is not much of a market for them now. Prince's popularity is not getting bigger and bigger as time goes by. There are some delusional fans on this website that think millions of fans will line up at Midnight outside of the few shops that sell cds, and party in the streets when they are announced.

The sad truth is that the market for his remasters other than Purple Rain and 1999 is very small.

The only true reason for wanting them released is for the few die hards that will buy them, and the fact that the young fans who do buy Prince's music will think the recordings sound funny, as they are nowhere near as loud as the overly compressed music of today sounds.

The best remasters are those that are a little louder without compromising the sound. Duran Duran's 2002 remasters were fine. Then they had them mastered again, and Big Thing and Notorious sound so horrible, the life is sucked out of the music.

The sound level problem has been fixed for the first ten albums in the 2009 Japanese CD reissues. The volume has been turned up on all of them compared to the original CDs. If all people want out of Prince "remasters" is louder-sounding CDs, you can buy them now, as those 2009 reissues are back in print. I think that often when people talk about wanting "remasters," what they really want are remixes. If we get those we are going to get Prince's new, reinterpretations of his classic albums. We'll be lucky if he just tinkers with the music and doesn't try to record new lyrics. In either case, it won't be the music we grew up listening to.

I own all of the Japanese SHM Cds. They do sound a tiny bit better, but the bass on SOTT and Lovesexy is not dynamic at all. The vinyl still sounds better. All of the Warners era CDs from For You to the 1992 Symbol album aren't all that bad anyway. The exceptions are SOTT and The Black Album, and BA was not part of the Japanese SHM series that was only 1978-1988.

Sadly, it won't matter that much, as it is becoming obvious that a true remasters release gets less likely to happen as the days keep passing by. Should they ever see the light, I will be overjoyed to say I was wrong.

GustavoRibas said:

artist76 said:

We're all bones when we're dead.

This is a man who has said, "life is death without adventure, and adventure only comes to those who are willing to be daring and take chances."

Only a person who does not worry about his legacy can live and create without fear and take chances as he has.

True, but we´re talking about stuff he already did. Lots of people simply dont know how great he is because nobody promotes his classic stuff anymore.

yeah, true!

Prince has always been and will continue to be a little Tyrant when it come’s to his music.I think the fact that Warner let him produce his own records since the beginning lead to his unbalanced view of the music BUSINESS.

Yes the baker should always make the bread but the record labels own the ovens.

They don’t give a crap about “talent”.Their job is to “make bread”.

If they gave a crap about “talent”, most of this hip-hop stuff wouldn’t be on the radio.

alexandernevamind said:

Prince has always been and will continue to be a little Tyrant when it come’s to his music.I think the fact that Warner let him produce his own records since the beginning lead to his unbalanced view of the music BUSINESS.

Yes the baker should always make the bread but the record labels own the ovens.

They don’t give a crap about “talent”.Their job is to “make bread”.

If they gave a crap about “talent”, most of this hip-hop stuff wouldn’t be on the radio.

Mr. Bakerman?