Does anybody know from an interview or something a clue of why Prince left Old Friends 4 Sale out of the album in which it was supposed to be, Parade?? I've read on a thread it was even featured on the film Parade, wasn't it? ( http://prince.org/msg/7/330227 )

Sorry, I've been a fan for some 5-6 years, but I still don't know all his work. Recently I heard this outtake and I was mesmerized. I've read other threads about it and I really agree. Lyrically it's wonderful, it's theme and sensibility are very touching, it's got this bluesy singing, this classic rnb arrangement.

I think it could have been the best thing in Parade next to Kiss had it been included (and I love Parade!).

Yes, the released 90's version is overproduced and fucked up, but, from what I've read, that last WB outttake compilation had no involvement by P himself. I've heard the Crystal Ball only a few times up to now, but I really can't recall any other outtake as impressive as this one.

If it was left out for it's delicate theme, dealing with close "friends"/band members, I'm not really convinced, since that's the guy who was having sex with his "Sister" just a few years before, on Dirty Mind, and didn't seem afraid to talk about anything.

[Edited 7/24/12 13:44pm]

I don't know for sure, but I expect it was because of the highly personal lyrics. When he did finally release the song, he made the lyrics so garbled that they were meaningless. The comparison to "Sister" doesn't work in my opinion, because I think "Sister" is either completely or mostly fictional. Tyka has been quoted as saying that "Sister" was just her brother being crazy. If he were going to include it on Parade, he would have had to re-record it to make the lyrics about Christopher Tracy and his friends.

Because the lyrics didn't fit the plot of the movie.

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

Yes, the released 90's version is overproduced and fucked up, but, from what I've read, that last WB outttake compilation had no involvement by P himself. I've heard the Crystal Ball only a few times up to now, but I really can't recall any other outtake as impressive as this one.

Nope. Both The Vault and Chaos & Disorder were delivered to Warners at the same time, as is tracklist, artwork, everything with no room for discussion. C&D to be released then, O4FS at a future date.

Genesia said:

it's really a shame that OF4S, All My Dreams, Neon Telephone and Others Here With Us didn't make the cut.

any one of these should have been there in place of Do U Lie?. there's some really great stuff on there, but that album could have definitely used 1 or 2 more standalone songs, movie be damned.

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

Does anybody know from an interview or something a clue of why Prince left Old Friends 4 Sale out of the album in which it was supposed to be, Parade??

I don't think we know the reason, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

I've read on a thread it was even featured on the film Parade, wasn't it? ( http://prince.org/msg/7/330227 )

Only an instrumental snippet appears in the movie, hardly recognizable unless u're looking 4 it. It was there for incidental purposes only.

Sorry, I've been a fan for some 5-6 years, but I still don't know all his work. Recently I heard this outtake and I was mesmerized. I've read other threads about it and I really agree. Lyrically it's wonderful, it's theme and sensibility are very touching, it's got this bluesy singing, this classic rnb arrangement.

It's a great song, I think we all agree on this.

I think it could have been the best thing in Parade next to Kiss had it been included (and I love Parade!).

Indeed, but it wasn't.

Yes, the released 90's version is overproduced and fucked up

The vocals were rerecorded with some new lyrics in 1991, but save maybe a couple of details, the intrumentation remains the same. You may have heard only the original, pre-Clare Fischer 1985 version that is circulating, but you'll find that the 1985 post-Clare Fischer version also circulates, that it's quite similar (or overproduced if you want) to the 1991 version. Of course, the orchestral version is the version that woulda been released if it had been left on Parade. So basically it's the same song more or less.

, but, from what I've read, that last WB outttake compilation had no involvement by P himself.

You've read bullshit: Prince compiled the album himself and it was released by WB exactly as delived by Prince.

I've heard the Crystal Ball only a few times up to now, but I really can't recall any other outtake as impressive as this one.

There are a few others

If it was left out for it's delicate theme, dealing with close "friends"/band members, I'm not really convinced, since that's the guy who was having sex with his "Sister" just a few years before, on Dirty Mind, and didn't seem afraid to talk about anything.

It's been said many times that the lyrics may have been the reason but I don't think this has been verified (once again correct me if I'm wrong).

[Edited 7/24/12 13:44pm]

theblueangel said:

In place of "Do U Lie"?! That is one of the most delicious slices of music ever put to tape!

I'll have you know that your opinion holds very little weight with me.

Stand strong fellow 'Do U Lie?' fans, the tide will turn eventually

I LOVE "Do you lie"!!! Parade is perfect the way it is. It's nice that we have the outtakes but I wouldn't change the official release.

[Edited 7/26/12 12:28pm]

Genesia said:

Because the lyrics didn't fit the plot of the movie.

He could still write a song that touchable and vulnerable at that height of his stardom (because his life surroundings were still so like when he started out.

He couldn't have created a song like that by the time the OF4S remix was released

OldFriends4Sale said:

Genesia said:

Because the lyrics didn't fit the plot of the movie.

He could still write a song that touchable and vulnerable at that height of his stardom (because his life surroundings were still so like when he started out.

He couldn't have created a song like that by the time the OF4S remix was released

Strange But True and Reflection are pretty touchable and vulnerable, and obviously very personnal...

databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

He could still write a song that touchable and vulnerable at that height of his stardom (because his life surroundings were still so like when he started out.

He couldn't have created a song like that by the time the OF4S remix was released

Strange But True and Reflection are pretty touchable and vulnerable, and obviously very personnal...

Yeah of course they are, those also full under and 'romantic' song or song to a lover. There are a lot of songs that are very personnal

the thing that I get with OF4S is the uhhh they are about little life situations of people in his life from friends/bandmembers to questions of decisions prior to the his 'Purple Reign'

At the time of this song, Prince even though was still right in the middle of 1985 SuperStar Happening was still very new. The people he sang out in the songs were people who knew him before he was "PRINCE"... hard to explain, this song is very different

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

Strange But True and Reflection are pretty touchable and vulnerable, and obviously very personnal...

Yeah of course they are, those also full under and 'romantic' song or song to a lover. There are a lot of songs that are very personnal

the thing that I get with OF4S is the uhhh they are about little life situations of people in his life from friends/bandmembers to questions of decisions prior to the his 'Purple Reign'

At the time of this song, Prince even though was still right in the middle of 1985 SuperStar Happening was still very new. The people he sang out in the songs were people who knew him before he was "PRINCE"... hard to explain, this song is very different

Fair enough

Like most of his early albums the intnet of the album changed quite a bit between inspiration and final product. If I remember correctly, Parade was originally intended as more of a concept double album and eventually morphed into the soundtrack for under the cherry moon. While the original lyrics may have been part of what caused Prince to pull the song, it is more likely that once Parade became the official soundtrack, Old Friends 4 Sale just didn't fit anymore.

Old Friends has always been my favorite unreleased track. The changed lyrics are for the demo that Prince submitted for a recording session by Joe Cocker. Several of the tracks from the Vault fall into the categorie of tracks sent as demos for other artists.

Do U Lie is one of the few songs from Parade that I still play, and like many here, I bought Parade the day it came out. I am reminded of a discussion on Usenet back in late 1996 about the sprawling 3 CD Emancipation set. Most agreed that it could have been edited down to a "great" 2CD set. But we could not agree on which songs would make up that setlist (though we all agreed that Let's Have a Baby wouldn't make the cut). I was amazed by some of the songs that got a lot of votes since I thought they sucked, and was equally disappointed that others (such as the wonderful Soul Sanctuary) didn't receive more votes. tHE tRUTH is that He has made a lot of songs that are quite devisive amongst his (dwindling) fanbase (including, apparently, the entire Lovesexy album). I am not at all surprised that Do U Lie is one of them. It is quite musical, the antithesis of a funky or rockin' Prince single, and features instrumentation that would never again appear in a Prince song.

Old Friends for Sale is from just after the Purple Rain tour ended and I seriously doubt He ever seriously considered including it on the UTCM soundtrack, though it must also be pointed out that He admitted in an interview that He didn't create enough new songs for this project and thus did not have a great selection to choose from. He also mentioned that He wouldn't let that happen again.

The song Crystal Ball is somewhat of a curiosity to us Prince fans, but thank Dog He didn't release it at the time. It is too long, unintersesting musically, an ultimately a failed experiment that He wisely never revisted (or at least not after mixing three versions He created). That said, I still get teary-eyed thinking of what an amazing 3 LP album He COULD have released in early 1987. And I still get teary-eyed thinking of what He might have created if He had kept Wendy & Lisa around for just one more year (no, they are not musical geniuses, but He created His masterpieces when they were coincidentally around).

But all good things, they say, never last.

LaceyB said:

Do U Lie is one of the few songs from Parade that I still play, and like many here, I bought Parade the day it came out. I am reminded of a discussion on Usenet back in late 1996 about the sprawling 3 CD Emancipation set. Most agreed that it could have been edited down to a "great" 2CD set. But we could not agree on which songs would make up that setlist (though we all agreed that Let's Have a Baby wouldn't make the cut). I was amazed by some of the songs that got a lot of votes since I thought they sucked, and was equally disappointed that others (such as the wonderful Soul Sanctuary) didn't receive more votes. tHE tRUTH is that He has made a lot of songs that are quite devisive amongst his (dwindling) fanbase (including, apparently, the entire Lovesexy album). I am not at all surprised that Do U Lie is one of them. It is quite musical, the antithesis of a funky or rockin' Prince single, and features instrumentation that would never again appear in a Prince song.

Old Friends for Sale is from just after the Purple Rain tour ended and I seriously doubt He ever seriously considered including it on the UTCM soundtrack, though it must also be pointed out that He admitted in an interview that He didn't create enough new songs for this project and thus did not have a great selection to choose from. He also mentioned that He wouldn't let that happen again.

The song Crystal Ball is somewhat of a curiosity to us Prince fans, but thank Dog He didn't release it at the time. It is too long, unintersesting musically, an ultimately a failed experiment that He wisely never revisted (or at least not after mixing three versions He created). That said, I still get teary-eyed thinking of what an amazing 3 LP album He COULD have released in early 1987. And I still get teary-eyed thinking of what He might have created if He had kept Wendy & Lisa around for just one more year (no, they are not musical geniuses, but He created His masterpieces when they were coincidentally around).

But all good things, they say, never last.

Not enough 4 Under the Cherry Moon? As many as they did work on, I can agree with that because they were creating so many songs for different projects all at once. He should have kept in the same concept as PR in featuring performances of songs including proteges.

I love the long Prince songs, it is very interesting musically 4 me, so much to hear so much happening. I don't think it failed at all as a song. The original with Clare Fischers touch Wendy Lisa susannah the guitar work, I love it.

I agree, but at the time they definately were creative geniuses. The whole troup of people he had could have taken him to a new maturity, the Tony M era would have never happened, and I doubt Prince would have felt the need to try gansta rap.

NouveauDance said: