yes, dude just adores the company of ugly and talentless thugs.. Im talking about the likes of Wally Safford. And Greg Brooks. And Tony Mosley. And Shelby J... All ugly beyong belief and completely talentless... Nothing much going for them... Hell, even Matt Fink thought those backing "dancers" were "crazy people" and said so in an interview...

and yet P has treated the likes of Eric Leeds, Miko Weaver and Rosie Gaines who in my opinion was the absolute best female vocalist he has ever employed, treats them all with utter contempt and displayed a complete disregard for their obvious talents and superior musicianship... What a funny dude he is...

Uh oh....

What's your definition of thug? Wally Safford and Greg Brooks were with him in 1987 - and both were actors playing the part of a thug on a tour - not real thugs. Tony M, circa 1990-92, was a rapper and a dancer. Not a thug unless you think all rapper/dancers are thugs.

And Shelby J, moving two decades later, is NOT a thug regardless of how you think she looks.

She's got an amazing voice and many fans, like me, love her in the band.

I'm going to put this out here because I can smell a rusty LOCK coming on.

You read nothing like a fan of Prince's career to even conclude the Wally & Gregory were real thugs

and that Shelby is completely talentless

Don't post trolls/ads/spam/get-rich-quick schemes/other junk.
Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people riled up. Don't post useless off-topic stuff. Even if a silly, no-purpose post seems harmless and fun, don't be surprised if you get a warning and the message locked/deleted. You might think it's cute, but Moderators who have to wade through tons of posts like this, don't. In general, don't post advertisements. Advertising may be allowed in certain circumstances; ask a moderator privately before posting. If a post is mostly just an ad for another website, it will likely be removed. In general, post if you have something to say. If you want to start a new thread, make it worthwhile. Don't be lazy and give a 1-sentence "what do you think about X?". At least explain your position, why, etc... make it interesting to read; you're more likely to get quality responses.

"a rusty LOCK..."

[Edited 7/20/12 18:49pm]

I like Tony M.

I always felt Renato was a little too thug for my tastes.

HonestMan13 said:

I always felt Renato was a little too thug for my tastes.

XNY said:

What's your definition of thug? Wally Safford and Greg Brooks were with him in 1987 - and both were actors playing the part of a thug on a tour - not real thugs. Tony M, circa 1990-92, was a rapper and a dancer. Not a thug unless you think all rapper/dancers are thugs.

And Shelby J, moving two decades later, is NOT a thug regardless of how you think she looks.

She's got an amazing voice and many fans, like me, love her in the band.

x's a million.

rdhull said:

I did get taken aback reading either Prince The First Decade or DMSR where Fink was quoted saying " but Prince was more interested in hanging with his black buddies" referring to Wally and Greg and how he wasn't just hanging with The Revolution. I was like why does Fink gotta be all that for? I don't think some folks realize that a lot of folks in princes employ were his friends from his youth.

No kidding. Do you know if it's true that his first gf ran his merch in the late 90's? I remember meeting the lady at PP that was running all of his merch and another fan introduced me to her and said she was P's first gf from grade school, actually im not sure if he introduced her that way but i remember him ramblin about it and she overheard.

no offense meant, but Eric Leeds and Dr. Fink ain't that pretty either.

although I do find Greg, Wally, Jerome and the Game Boyz completely useless to his music and his live show. Tony M at least got to rap, though. Also not sure why he's currently employing an army of background singers. One would suffice, especially since it's apparently necessary for every one of them to get a solo song at every show the last several years. it can even be Shelbey J, who I find to be the most obnoxious and overbearing and uninteresting vocally of the whole crop.

also, please no more Cats or Maytes or Twins or ballerinas or that girl from the late '90s/early '00s that would to that "little kicks" Elaine-from-Seinfeld style dancing.

and please also cut the horn section down to 1 or 2 guys. at most. and Candy Dulfer need not apply.

and no Larry Graham. or Maceo Parker, for that matter. talented as they may be, he moved runk/rock/r&b beyond that in the early '80s and it's only ego that he's regressed creatively to accomodate them.

probably not what this thread was about, but let's get it all out on the table.

[Edited 7/20/12 20:14pm]

errant said:

although I do find Greg, Wally, Jerome and the Game Boyz completely useless to his music and his live show. Tony M at least got to rap, though. Also not sure why he's currently employing an army of background singers. One would suffice, especially since it's apparently necessary for every one of them to get a solo song at every show the last several years. it can even be Shelbey J, who I find to be the most obnoxious and overbearing and uninteresting vocally of the whole crop.

also, please no more Cats or Maytes or Twins or ballerinas or that girl from the late '90s/early '00s that would to that "little kicks" Elaine-from-Seinfeld style dancing.

and please also cut the horn section down to 1 or 2 guys. at most. and Candy Dulfer need not apply.

and no Larry Graham. or Maceo Parker, for that matter. talented as they may be, he moved runk/rock/r&b beyond that in the early '80s and it's only ego that he's regressed creatively to accomodate them.

probably not what this thread was about, but let's get it all out on the table.

[Edited 7/20/12 20:14pm]

I'm just going to ignore the ignorant post of the person who started this thread and reply to your post. First, the use of Greg, Wally, and Jerome was to create a James Brown and the Flames feel, which I think worked wonderfully in the midst of his more whimsical, pop rock, and metaphysical sound and look of the Parade Tour. It was Prince being his diverse self, and they lingered into the Sign "O" the Times Tour as comic relief and funk/soul style sensibility, which, again, I liked as a compliment to the Rock aesthetic. So, if I read you correctly, you want Prince to erase any sound or association of Soul and R&B even though that is a core foundation of his work? Tony M. aside, I love his use of Graham, Parker, and Shelby J as a way to present/supply quality funk and soul to his work/show to compliment the rock and pop aesthetics.

1725topp said:

errant said:

although I do find Greg, Wally, Jerome and the Game Boyz completely useless to his music and his live show. Tony M at least got to rap, though. Also not sure why he's currently employing an army of background singers. One would suffice, especially since it's apparently necessary for every one of them to get a solo song at every show the last several years. it can even be Shelbey J, who I find to be the most obnoxious and overbearing and uninteresting vocally of the whole crop.

also, please no more Cats or Maytes or Twins or ballerinas or that girl from the late '90s/early '00s that would to that "little kicks" Elaine-from-Seinfeld style dancing.

and please also cut the horn section down to 1 or 2 guys. at most. and Candy Dulfer need not apply.

and no Larry Graham. or Maceo Parker, for that matter. talented as they may be, he moved runk/rock/r&b beyond that in the early '80s and it's only ego that he's regressed creatively to accomodate them.

probably not what this thread was about, but let's get it all out on the table.

[Edited 7/20/12 20:14pm]

I'm just going to ignore the ignorant post of the person who started this thread and reply to your post. First, the use of Greg, Wally, and Jerome was to create a James Brown and the Flames feel, which I think worked wonderfully in the midst of his more whimsical, pop rock, and metaphysical sound and look of the Parade Tour. It was Prince being his diverse self, and they lingered into the Sign "O" the Times Tour as comic relief and funk/soul style sensibility, which, again, I liked as a compliment to the Rock aesthetic. So, if I read you correctly, you want Prince to erase any sound or association of Soul and R&B even though that is a core foundation of his work? Tony M. aside, I love his use of Graham, Parker, and Shelby J as a way to present/supply quality funk and soul to his work/show to compliment the rock and pop aesthetics.

not disassociate himself from soul and r&b or the aesthetic. but the soul and r&b that he essentially replaced. and killed. an homage from time to time is fine, but emplying 3 dudes to essentially do nothing on stage or to bring back the at-this-point stale funk stylings of Larry's and Maceo's corpses continuously is not doing his music or his shows any favors.

the whole point of Prince is that he transformed his influences into something else that was fresh and new. I understand the desire and need to pay respect to his influences and what came before once in awhile but it's kind of his whole thing now, which is why there were SOOOOOO many covers in the setlists a couple of years ago. and as I said, I don't even begrudge him Shelbey J, but let's leave it at her, instead of employing an unnecessary army of background singers. even if she is the most irritating one of the bunch.

I don't need to hear that Prince doesn't pay his bills or his court judgments or about how iTunes isn't going to give him an advance when he's employing 27 unnecessary people for a live show that is stale and aspires to nothing more than a soul revue straight out of the '70s. after he went to the trouble of evolving funk & soul beyond that 30 years ago and brought it out of the doldrums.

I don't know why some Prince fans have this view, as though Prince is suppose to be dedicated to one form of music and only have bandmembers of a specific look.... or more ridiculous, think he's only suppose to befriend band members of a specific era. So with that being said, I'm just going to chill and watch orger '1725Stopp' school the OP of this thread.

Handel said:

yes, dude just adores the company of ugly and talentless thugs.. Im talking about the likes of Wally Safford. And Greg Brooks. And Tony Mosley. And Shelby J... All ugly beyong belief and completely talentless... Nothing much going for them... Hell, even Matt Fink thought those backing "dancers" were "crazy people" and said so in an interview...

and yet P has treated the likes of Eric Leeds, Miko Weaver and Rosie Gaines who in my opinion was the absolute best female vocalist he has ever employed, treats them all with utter contempt and displayed a complete disregard for their obvious talents and superior musicianship... What a funny dude he is...

When did he treat these people with utter contempt and complete disregard for their talents? He employed them, didn't he? And Eric Leeds was with him for about forever. If Prince treated him with utter contempt and disregard, then Leeds is the "funny dude" for sticking around instead of trusting his own abilities and working somewhere else.

oh, are we still humoring the OP with responses to his actual question?

errant said:

although I do find Greg, Wally, Jerome and the Game Boyz completely useless to his music and his live show. Tony M at least got to rap, though. Also not sure why he's currently employing an army of background singers. One would suffice, especially since it's apparently necessary for every one of them to get a solo song at every show the last several years. it can even be Shelbey J, who I find to be the most obnoxious and overbearing and uninteresting vocally of the whole crop.

also, please no more Cats or Maytes or Twins or ballerinas or that girl from the late '90s/early '00s that would to that "little kicks" Elaine-from-Seinfeld style dancing.

and please also cut the horn section down to 1 or 2 guys. at most. and Candy Dulfer need not apply.

and no Larry Graham. or Maceo Parker, for that matter. talented as they may be, he moved runk/rock/r&b beyond that in the early '80s and it's only ego that he's regressed creatively to accomodate them.

probably not what this thread was about, but let's get it all out on the table.

[Edited 7/20/12 20:14pm]

I like Tony M's voice!! Like on songs like "the max" but I never cared for him going off on a long rap. Overall I like him mixed in the music. I also love Maceo and Mayte for live shows. Prince seemed to be head over heels in love with Mayte and it translated great live. Maceo can give P even more of a James Brown feel which I like. No Candy Dulfer??? No way, another great artist, love her live and like her solo work. With Larry G, umm I sort of wish he would just get back together with Sly and work again. Every musician has a time where they have magic with with others and Sly and the Fam had it but away from a lot of people disliking him for his beliefs he is only like one of the greatest bassists that walked on the planet. No Larry G, no Flea (RHCP) and funk would not be the same. As for the production from the 80s with Cat, Greg, Wally, Jerome..ahh I just loved how Prince created a different world every tour. Music is subjective I guess?

errant said:

not disassociate himself from soul and r&b or the aesthetic. but the soul and r&b that he essentially replaced. and killed. an homage from time to time is fine, but emplying 3 dudes to essentially do nothing on stage or to bring back the at-this-point stale funk stylings of Larry's and Maceo's corpses continuously is not doing his music or his shows any favors.

the whole point of Prince is that he transformed his influences into something else that was fresh and new. I understand the desire and need to pay respect to his influences and what came before once in awhile but it's kind of his whole thing now, which is why there were SOOOOOO many covers in the setlists a couple of years ago. and as I said, I don't even begrudge him Shelbey J, but let's leave it at her, instead of employing an unnecessary army of background singers. even if she is the most irritating one of the bunch.

I don't need to hear that Prince doesn't pay his bills or his court judgments or about how iTunes isn't going to give him an advance when he's employing 27 unnecessary people for a live show that is stale and aspires to nothing more than a soul revue straight out of the '70s. after he went to the trouble of evolving funk & soul beyond that 30 years ago and brought it out of the doldrums.

I understand what you are saying about Prince refashioning Soul and R&B, but I guess it's all about what each of us hears. While on the one hand Prince did some interestingly new things with genres, I could always hear the classic, uncut, pure R&B and soul, especially with the first two albums and then with songs, such as "Do Me, Baby," "International Lover," "Free," "Kiss," "Adore," "When 2 R n Love," "Scandalous," and others. These are not great because they remake the genre; they are great because they are classic Soul/R&B done well. So, while Prince was injecting some newness into Soul and R&B, he was not killing the tradition as he continued to make great, traditional Soul and R&B, which is what he continues to do.

*

As for "employing an unnecessary army of background singers" and dancers that are "nothing more than a soul revue straight out of the '70s," I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. On the one hand, while I'm not the biggest fan of dancers, I understand that dancing acts/artists are a major part of Soul and R&B, which is non-existent in the Rock world, but movement, both spontaneous and choreographed, is a major part of the Soul and R&B aesthetic, and to call it unnecessary, while fair for your tastes, is a bit unfair to ask Prince not to embrace something that is a part of his personal and cultural history and aesthetic. As early as the Controversy Tour there were choreograph movements with the band, and it seems natural for this to evolve. I understand that it may not appeal to some people's tastes, but, when we understand the historical and cultural root of it, the term "unnecessary" seems a bit harsh if not myopic. As for the unnecessary singers, again that's in the ear of the beholder. I'll admit that I’d like to hear a few less covers, but the vocals of Shelby J and the girls seem to compliment well the other genres that he engages. Maybe because I was raised on the front porch of the chittlin’ circuit I am partial to the soulful greasiness of the backing vocals of Shelby J and the girls, but I think Prince manages a fine balance between all the styles/genres he desires to play.

*

And, finally, when I hear Graham and Parker play with Prince, I hear high energy, excellent playing with often unbelievable notes, and seamless blending into various forms and genres. That is not stale to me. But, again, maybe because I never saw Prince as attempting to kill the traditional forms and because I could always hear those forms resonate greatly in his work that it seems more like a natural progression to have Graham and Parker play with Prince. And, yes, Prince did say, “It’s time for a new direction/ It’s time for Jazz to die,” but on the same album he continues to embrace pure Funk, Soul, R&B, and Gospel because dichotomy or contradiction is an essential aspect of Prince’s personality and work, and it is one of my favorite aspects of his work. So, I hear what you are saying and don’t begrudge it, one bit, but I guess for my tastes—though I would like less covers and more new songs played—Prince provides a healthy dose of Rock, Soul, and R&B. One thing about it all, you and I don’t seem to be thugs, and while we may disagree on what the above artists contribute to Prince’s work I think that we can agree that they are not thugs either as we continue to ignore the ignorance of the person who started this thread.

Love the music he creates but I am not that obsessed with whom he decides to employ. Just play that guitar and the MF'ing Bass and I will be happy!

I am sure that he has better ways to spend his time than to worry about who is selling his merch and what our opinions of the people he employs are.

My only complaint is that, I used to be able to buy tix on his website because I was a member. I miss the old days.

el_callejero

Errrrrrr, well what can you say to that.

Handel said:

Why does Prince surround himself with thugs

Did you consider:

`Because he is`?

Of course at first you will deny but let it sink in and rethink his many aspects.

udo said:

Handel said:

Why does Prince surround himself with thugs

Did you consider:

`Because he is`?

Of course at first you will deny but let it sink in and rethink his many aspects.

Prince always made funk/r&b.

every song of him has those elements. he just added some rock flavour to it sometimes. i never think of prince as a rockartist. Prince had white peeps in his band just for marketing reasons, not because they were better. And he hung out more with his black friends, becuase they were black and he is black and they were his friends. Blacks have different kind of humour, we talk different etc. Its normal stuff. When mexicans come to america they hang out with mexicans.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

I like Tony M.

I love Tony M. ! He was such a character and actually not as bad as he's made out to be!