catpark said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Naww I think it's Eric or Bobby Z

In that pic Wendy punched Prince in his back...look at Lisa laughing, what bitches. And Bobby Z, Eric and Dr Fink were well thuggish.

No wonder Prince disbanded the Revolution.

she slapped his head and made him think it was Jerome

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No I don't have selective memory at all, and I'm not white lol oops I guess if you have some black in you you're all supposed to think alike my bad

Prince didn't begin as a traditional Black entertainer, nothing about Prince is traditional or traditionally black. Just because his music got played on black radio doesn't change his ideas or plans for himself.

Prince is one thing, but all this extra racial cultural stuff Prince wasn't about. As complex as he was then he was still very simple and niave about what he was doing. To the point he didn't even understand the context a term like Jack U Off

No Greg & Wally were in the live band in 1986(during the Parade tour) they were a part of security during the 1984/85 years and Greg was seen in the movie PR. No Greg & Wally werent being security in the band they represented mosly what you saw in the SOTT film: Greg mostly a player, and Wally a guy trying to make it on the hard streets of Minneapolis. For some reason Prince made fun of him a lot on stage. During the Parade tour they were just "dancers". And again they had no part of the creative process of the music.

No what happened with Prince & W & Lisa was more emotional personal stuff, it wasn't about the music. Prince years later put in2 a song the regret of that decision. It also had a lot to do with is relationship with Susannah. Sign of the Time was still 99% the music As Is that was Dream Factory. Hold on let me listen to my SOTT music and my Dream Factory similar cuts... hmmmm outside of Strange Relationships, I don't hear a difference..

Prince the androgynous racially ambiguous entertainer

I never said that all African Americans must think alike. I was wrong to assume that you were white, but you still have selective naivety in that I noticed that you never dared to address anything I said regarding Hill’s book or Husney and Willie, people who were there and contradict what you say. You also chose not to address my dissection of “Purple Music” or identify the layers, textures, and roots of Prince’s music. So, yes, you are still suffering from selective naivety.

*

As for you saying that Prince was not a traditional black entertainer, you sound like the American government denying that drugs are being imported to America on ocean liners, thinking that just because they say there are no drugs on those ships Americans are supposed to believe them. So, let's do it this way. I have presented a criterion of what defines someone as a traditional black entertainer. What is your criterion other than just because you say he wasn’t? You may have this fantasy in your head that Prince is some type of special, erotic Negro, but what is your criterion? The bottom line is that traditional means something stylized and accepted over time, and in regards to being a traditional black entertainer it means that black radio and the black concert circuit, often called the Chittlin' Circuit, generally have a mode of stylized performance criteria, and anyone that fits that stylized mode gains air time and stage time. To that point, obviously, Prince fit that mode because the first two albums and promotional tours (record store signings) were exclusively on black radio and the black concert circuit. Was he a new version of the traditional black entertainer? Yes. But, every ten years or so, there is a modification of that mode, which is merely what Amiri Baraka called "the changing same". That is what Prince was, just another version of black art. Now, if you can present a different criteria and show how that criteria was actually manifest in practice or action via radio and public appearances and not just some theory that you have, then I would be willing to accept your assertion that Prince was not or did not begin as a traditional black entertainer. But, based on how he made his music available and how people accessed it during those first two albums, Prince began as a traditional black entertainer.

*

The very fact that Prince had a stage role for Greg and Wally proves that Prince was moving in a different cultural direction than what he had been doing with the Revolution, and Greg and Wally were simply a physical manifestation of what Prince wanted to do and say. And, again, the timeline you present actually supports my position. Greg and Wally represented a particular cultural index that Prince wanted to add to the show that seemed to reflect his new or modified sensibility. It began as a "Famous Flames" thing in 1986 and morphed to a bit more by 1987 for the sake of humor and soul. And it is likely that Prince saw something in their off-stage personalities that he wanted to reflect on stage, which included something that he wanted to reflect in the music. And if you don't hear a big difference between Sign "O" the Times and what was created from 1983 through 1985/6, then, we just hear it differently. Sign "O" the Times is not Purple Rain, Around the World in a Day, nor Parade, all of which I love equally but differently.

*

Just because Prince had regrets about disbanding the Revolution or ending his relationship with Wendy and Lisa doesn't mean that he wasn't attempting to move in a different musical/aesthetic direction. I took the song to mean that he regretted "how" he terminated the relationship not "that" he terminated the relationship. Just because there were some emotional issues involved does not mean that Prince wasn't attempting also to move in a different musical/aesthetic direction.

*

So, you are right about one thing. Two people of color can view things differently. Let's see, "androgynous racially ambiguous entertainer," could that be Little Richard or Jimi Hendrix to whom you are referring? Face it, with all of his so-called difference, which I do think Prince was different and creative, Prince was/is merely the "changing same" of traditional black entertainment. The problem is that you, for whatever reason, even as a person of color, have a narrow or myopic notion of traditional black music that keeps you from seeing or realizing that Prince is just another branch, a wonderful branch, but just another branch on the beautifully diverse black music tree.

certain folk love to make scientific studies of famous people with african ancestry lol

I'm not a person of color.

Why would I be refering to Richard or Hendrix when I'm talking about Prince

You write a nice book of study though. Never said that, it's thought provoking piece

You have your opinion of things from your background on racialized ideals and thats fine

I respect your time you put into your thoughts, but when I come to Prince.org I don't want to get into long reads and debates back in forth. It's tiring to many cut in pastes of lines and sentences and then someone else jumps in and. It just gets drawn out. I've tried before.

EyeJester7 said:

1725Stopp

".. I always keep up with your posts and you execute reasoning so well! "

In reference to your statement about 1725Stopps's posts, EyeJester, I agree with you that 1725Stopp's posts are always an interesting and enjoyable read. I love his analyzations of the eras of Prince's music, as well as his interpretations of some of Prince's songs. He breaks it down so eloquently.

[Edited 7/26/12 7:12am]

Ohh Lawrd..............

OldFriends4Sale said:

NouveauDance said:

What was all that about Prince's music becoming more varied post-Revolution?

That's what confused me too...

Makes you wonder what some people actually know of Prince's music

''what they know''...like your opinion is the only ''true'' opinion? Its a bit harsh to put it like that i think. All to their own opinion. Without a doubt Prince music continued to varie just like it did during the Revolution time. If it is ''more'' or ''less'' is hard to pinpoint, for both sides there are good arguments. Peace?

without having read much of these last few pages, the title of the thread sounds like it was posed to create a ruckus. Cultural differences in america exist then and now and I've always noticed white americans are often easily and needlessly threatened, or even naively arrogant when they get around different people, not just black people. I could see Lisa, Wendy, maybe even Fink and Bobby not really knowing what to make of black people. But to my knowledge Prince never had anything remotely resembling "thugs" (an east indian word for roaving bandits). White xenophobia is rampant in America and it will not go away in my lifetime, it's really a part of a collective white guilt. Long story short, I recall rick james and his band ready to kick Prince's bands ass and describing them as rather fey. Minneapolis doesn't compare to the harder parts of New York, Chicago, LA, or Detroit. So what we're left with is just a white impression, distaste of black culture in general. Former Time Mark Cardenas called Prince "ghetto",to him maybe he was. I'm sure Prince talked plenty of shit when he was young as did the black folk around him, for whites,easily frightened, that would be enough to call them "thugs" people who'll beat you over the head and take your shit. His bodyguards could get rough but even they wouldn't be what I would call "thugs" I think it would be more accurate to say that most great men attract some lower level humans, Elvis had his "Memphis Mafia" a group of con men, Ali had his set of bad apples selling him out at every turn. It's just a part of that sort of celebrity but still "thug" is not the correct term. The biggest thugs Prince dealt with were his record company and possibly some management people.

[Edited 7/26/12 20:26pm]