I enjoyed Wally & Gregs pieces in the live band(on some songs) and some videos. Never ever a fan of the Game Boyz or Tony M & Shelby can sing and hardly a thug, whether she is ugly or not is your sexual thing.

... focus on Gregory Brooks & Wally Safford. Jerome Bentons character in Purple Rain w/Morris was a combination Valet/Bodyguard/(with thuggish comical behavior) it seems Gregory & Wally were given that visual role during SOTT, but not Parade

What was all that about Prince's music becoming more varied post-Revolution?

NouveauDance said:

What was all that about Prince's music becoming more varied post-Revolution?

That's what confused me too...

Makes you wonder what some people actually know of Prince's music

Handel said:

yes, dude just adores the company of ugly and talentless thugs.. Im talking about the likes of Wally Safford. And Greg Brooks. And Tony Mosley. And Shelby J... All ugly beyong belief and completely talentless... Nothing much going for them... Hell, even Matt Fink thought those backing "dancers" were "crazy people" and said so in an interview...

and yet P has treated the likes of Eric Leeds, Miko Weaver and Rosie Gaines who in my opinion was the absolute best female vocalist he has ever employed, treats them all with utter contempt and displayed a complete disregard for their obvious talents and superior musicianship... What a funny dude he is...

Looks have nothing to do with musicianship, dumbass. I recall an interview in which a band member was saying that Rosie was constantly harassed for her weight. So maybe there's your answer. Maybe the "talented" members of the band were treated badly because you are like Prince - hung up on looks.

I remember the Modern Drummer magazine article with Prince and John Blackwell. The interviewer asked Prince what he thought of John Blackwell the first time he met him. Prince said, "He needs a tailor."

Show business is about looks. Prince is in show business. I give him credit for at least trying to balance looks with skill, but it's a rarity to find disgustingly attractive people who are fantastic musicians because most of them don't have to work for it. Someone sees them and says, "They look good. I can make them a star. No talent? That's okay. We have computers for that."

1725topp said:

ufoclub said: Prince was hanging closer with peeps that were a bit rough (and not even musicians) backstage etc…Other band members were turned off.

*

and

*

OldFriends4Sale said: If this is true, then Prince early on was trying to sabotage his own career. I thought Wally or Gregory initially was 1 of his entourage bodyguards. 1 of the things I hate in listening to some rehearsals is hearing Greg Brooks yelling at the band, like he need to keep them pumped up. I can see why most of them were ready to take off.

*

I can completely understand why members of the Revolution may have been “turned off” by the incorporation of new members, especially members that have different ideas of style, fun, and appropriate behavior and if those new members were a bit more aggressive and rowdy than the Revolution. And I wonder how much of this had to do with Prince thinking that while he had enjoyed investigating and experimenting with the metaphysical issues and sounds of Around the World in a Day and Parade he also wanted to return to more tangible socio-political issues of “Sign ‘O” the Times,” and he felt that surrounding himself with people like Greg and Wally would allow him to tap into that mode of expression.

*

Possibly Prince chooses people for two aspects, for their talent and for their personality or look. We know that he took Morris Day’s word that Jesse Johnson could play and hired him as much for his look as for his musical abilities. So, possibly Greg and Wally had a look and a sensibility that Prince felt he needed to make and present Sign “O” the Times in the manner that he felt would make the cultural impact that he needed. And, yes, Sign “O” the Times grows from Crystal Ball, but Greg and Wally had been around long enough that Prince would have noticed something about their personality and style that would fit with his new direction with Sign “O” the Times. And while I like Rock-n-Roll, I don’t think that having non-musicians in the studio while recording an album is a prevalent in Rock-n-Roll as it is in Blues, Funk, Soul, and R&B. A lot of what occurs in Hip Hop is portrayed as being exclusive to Hip Hop, but the notion of having non-musicians in the studio because they provide some sense of community style, aesthetic, or flavor that the songwriters or musicians need to create or reproduce that sound from their background is as old as the recording of African American music. Additionally, people can ignore another fact as long as they want because it is something that does not please their aesthetic taste or sensibility, but during the Parade Tour, Greg, Wally, and Jerome played the Famous Flames to Prince’s James Brown perfectly. Their dance routines were excellent—almost perfect timing, smooth, and funny! So that, in and of itself, proves that Greg and Wally weren’t useless to those of us who can appreciate the value of old school dancing and Prince’s funky yet humorous interpretation of it.

*

Finally, yes, I can understand how someone who was by then a seasoned musician could be offended by Brooks trying to “keep them energized,” but would their annoyance or anger be because Brooks was going over the line with his hyping or because they were not use to experiencing the cultural aspect of “the hype man” which was a staple in Funk and R&B tradition? So, while much of their annoyance and anger can be seen as Prince not being sensitive to certain members of the Revolution, how much of the annoyance and hurt feelings can be attributed to certain members of the Revolution wanting Prince to be who they wanted him to be and not recognizing that he is as complicated as his music and that he would always be inspired by the various aspects of African American culture, even those aspects that may be foreign or not pleasurable to them? Often, fans on this cite will state that Prince doesn’t need to use “this” or “that,” and the “this” or “that” will usually be some element or aspect of old school black music culture. And for me, it is not a question of whether or not Prince “needs” it but moreso a question of how can someone tell Prince that he shouldn’t use or be privy to every aspect or element of the forms and cultures in which he was raised? It is one thing to say, “I don’t like when Prince does _______ or uses ______.” It is something else when one says Prince is above _______ or he is better than ________ or too good to use ________” because the statement is actually saying that Prince is above or better than the culture that produced him. And those statements always cause me to wonder if some people like Prince because they perceive him as an erotic but “special” Negro somehow different, above, and better than other Negroes, which is why they then have so much distain or feel so betrayed when he embraces these forms or elements.

* You do understand the working of the time period then don't you? You do know that SOTT is just the Dream Factory scaled down correct? You do know that Wally & Gregory had nothing to do with the creation of the music right? You do know that SOTT music is Revolution era music? And that's not in any way shape or form taking credit from Prince and giving it to someone else.

*I agree that I believe Prince choose people for the look and personality. Which is why I don't mind the Twinz(look) From what I've read and read from band members and susan rogers talking about most of what happened in the recording studio: Gregory & Wally weren't there, just the musicians, Prince, Susan Rogers or another engineer.

* You really think the Revolution wasn't used to complicated and diversity in Prince music? I don't think it had anything to do with them trying to box him in at all. And it was Prince that said in a few 1985 interviews of how the band members actually keep him stretching and trying different things.

Prince was by no means a "Black music entertainer" Prince was Purple Music

Some things work and some things don't work, doesn't matter what cultural background you come from. American culture of Minnesota produced Prince.

Ya'll start bring these deep racial mental issues in and it has nothing to do with it. Remember the band from the start had black and white members and the camp itself was also mixed.

steakfinger said:

Handel said:

yes, dude just adores the company of ugly and talentless thugs.. Im talking about the likes of Wally Safford. And Greg Brooks. And Tony Mosley. And Shelby J... All ugly beyong belief and completely talentless... Nothing much going for them... Hell, even Matt Fink thought those backing "dancers" were "crazy people" and said so in an interview...

and yet P has treated the likes of Eric Leeds, Miko Weaver and Rosie Gaines who in my opinion was the absolute best female vocalist he has ever employed, treats them all with utter contempt and displayed a complete disregard for their obvious talents and superior musicianship... What a funny dude he is...

Looks have nothing to do with musicianship, dumbass. I recall an interview in which a band member was saying that Rosie was constantly harassed for her weight. So maybe there's your answer. Maybe the "talented" members of the band were treated badly because you are like Prince - hung up on looks.

I remember the Modern Drummer magazine article with Prince and John Blackwell. The interviewer asked Prince what he thought of John Blackwell the first time he met him. Prince said, "He needs a tailor."

Show business is about looks. Prince is in show business. I give him credit for at least trying to balance looks with skill, but it's a rarity to find disgustingly attractive people who are fantastic musicians because most of them don't have to work for it. Someone sees them and says, "They look good. I can make them a star. No talent? That's okay. We have computers for that."

Good post.

I would say that during his 80's protege period he was probably more tight about looks. Having people even look like some type of himself. His band and bands looked good and represented his music and vision well.

imago said:

thats wrong on so many levels

catpark said:

imago said:

thats wrong on so many levels

I'm a very very bad perosn.

imago said:

catpark said:

thats wrong on so many levels

I'm a very very bad perosn.

Your posts are genius.

Did I really just type that?

catpark said:

imago said:

I'm a very very bad perosn.

Your posts are genius.

Did I really just type that?

It's all relative. Lisa looks like a thug next to Prince

^^ Look closer in that pic, Wendy is the thug.

Amazing how the original has not responded thats an Okereke troll if ever I saw one. The poster also has no avatar another danger sign and the thread is nonsense, glad to see you guys have at least turned it into a useful discussion.

Wally and Greg as thugs? Now, that's a new one. As for having folks like Tony M around, I can just imagine why he'd tolerate that....probably for the same reason I would.

RodeoSchro said:

Few people know this, but Tommy Barbarella has "Dat Thug Life" tattooed in gothic print all the way across his back.

He makes Prince look like John Wayne by comparison.

imago said:

SpiritOtter said:

Dear OP & 1725topp, OP, you did not appear to realise an essential factor in Princes's choices. PRINCE IS NOT A GAY BLACK MAN. 1725topp, please Google: Dr Anjan Nath | GENIUS | A Gift of GOD...please contact ntact me by email. Prince's legacy is being 'written', appropriately, as we speak and I, personally, would like to invite you to critically review aspects of the work. love, Spirit

YES....HE....IS....

We voted on this ages ago.

I wish the mods would update the Q&A section of the website so we can put

that issue to bed.

However, I think the OP is baiting....hilariously at points, but baiting none-the-less.

No he's not. He's a gay biracial man. He's the secret love child of John Nelson and Sue Ellen Ewing. See the same eyes and mouth expression that he had at the piano at the beginning of the "Under The Cherry Moon" movie.

imago said:

I wondered what was wrong with that image and then saw all the Justin Bieber posters, I mean really, thats sad.

imago said:

SpiritOtter said:

Dear OP & 1725topp, OP, you did not appear to realise an essential factor in Princes's choices. PRINCE IS NOT A GAY BLACK MAN. 1725topp, please Google: Dr Anjan Nath | GENIUS | A Gift of GOD...please contact ntact me by email. Prince's legacy is being 'written', appropriately, as we speak and I, personally, would like to invite you to critically review aspects of the work. love, Spirit

YES....HE....IS....

We voted on this ages ago.

I wish the mods would update the Q&A section of the website so we can put

that issue to bed.

However, I think the OP is baiting....hilariously at points, but baiting none-the-less.

Imago.

No, you are as 'wrong' as the Original Poster.

Prince is NOT a gay black person.

love,

Spirit

smoothcriminal12 said:

SpiritOtter said:

Dear OP & 1725topp, OP, you did not appear to realise an essential factor in Princes's choices. PRINCE IS NOT A GAY BLACK MAN. 1725topp, please Google: Dr Anjan Nath | GENIUS | A Gift of GOD...please contact ntact me by email. Prince's legacy is being 'written', appropriately, as we speak and I, personally, would like to invite you to critically review aspects of the work. love, Spirit

This has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING.

Hello, smoothcriminal12,

NOTHING to do with ANYTHING?

Haha! Welcome to the .Org...

love,

Spirit

SpiritOtter said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

This has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING.

Hello, smoothcriminal12,

NOTHING to do with ANYTHING?

Haha! Welcome to the .Org...

love,

Spirit

Touche.

catpark said:

^^ Look closer in that pic, Wendy is the thug.

Naww I think it's Eric or Bobby Z

OldFriends4Sale said:

* You do understand the working of the time period then don't you? You do know that SOTT is just the Dream Factory scaled down correct? You do know that Wally & Gregory had nothing to do with the creation of the music right? You do know that SOTT music is Revolution era music? And that's not in any way shape or form taking credit from Prince and giving it to someone else.

*I agree that I believe Prince choose people for the look and personality. Which is why I don't mind the Twinz(look) From what I've read and read from band members and susan rogers talking about most of what happened in the recording studio: Gregory & Wally weren't there, just the musicians, Prince, Susan Rogers or another engineer.

* You really think the Revolution wasn't used to complicated and diversity in Prince music? I don't think it had anything to do with them trying to box him in at all. And it was Prince that said in a few 1985 interviews of how the band members actually keep him stretching and trying different things.

Prince was by no means a "Black music entertainer" Prince was Purple Music

Some things work and some things don't work, doesn't matter what cultural background you come from. American culture of Minnesota produced Prince.

Ya'll start bring these deep racial mental issues in and it has nothing to do with it. Remember the band from the start had black and white members and the camp itself was also mixed.

Let me start with your last statement first: " Ya'll start bring these deep racial mental issues in and it has nothing to do with it. Remember the band from the start had black and white members and the camp itself was also mixed ." I'm amazed at how many white people have selective naivety when it comes to Prince or any other American racial issue. Now, since you want to speak from a position of "Purple Music" authority, then why is it that you have conveniently ignored what both Owen Husney and Pepe Willie stated in Dave Hill's Prince: A Pop Life , C. Liegh McInnis' The Lyrics of Prince , and the documentary Prince: Unauthorized that Prince choose Bobby Z because he was a white drummer as much as because he was a talented drummer? So, Prince, not me or any other person like me, brings "these deep racial mental issues". The band was mixed because Prince was trying to create an image that would allow him entry into the pop and white world. That is not something that I created. That is a reality that exists. And, yes, I am sorry to burst your Paisley Park multicultural fantasy bubble, but Prince began as a "Black music entertainer." Again, both Husney and Willie stated that Dirty Mind was created (concocted) specifically to be something different than the first two albums, which were standard black music. Now, I will not accuse you of having a narrow or myopic notion of what black music is, but For You and Prince are not by any means outside the realm of traditional black music as songs from both albums were in heavy rotation on black radio stations and remain in heavy rotation on black adult contemporary stations, but only one song, "I Wanna Be Your Lover," from either album was in heavy rotation on white radio stations, and that was the white pop station, not the white rock station. So, yes, Prince began as a traditional "Black music entertainer”.

*

As for the notion that the American culture of Minnesota produced Prince, that's no different than saying that the American culture produced, effected, influenced any African American. I know that many white people want Prince to be some "special Negro" separate and apart from other African Americans, but he was just another very talented African American whose work reflects living in a very majority white area, attempting to infuse the sensibilities of his African American culture with the surrounding white culture. Yet, this is the story of most African Americans so I don't really see the point of your statement other than to prove my point. Prince may have been more open to the aesthetic sensibilities of the rock world, but, in truth, those so-called rock sensibilities are rooted in blues sensibilities, which are rooted in African American sensibilities. So, if anything, Prince’s genius was having the sense and courage to reclaim something or not allow others to tell him what constituted black music or the music that he wanted to play. Yes, Prince’s music is Purple Music, and Purple Music is, according to Hill’s book as well as Miles Davis, Husney, and Willie, reintroducing Little Richard and Jimi Hendrix to Marvin Gaye and Otis Redding, with a dash of sixties psychedelica.

*

Yes, I am well aware of the chronological period that led to Sign "O" the Times . I think in my last post I said Crystal Ball when I meant Dream Factory . However, since Greg and Wally had been security since 1986, they were there on stage being used to portray if not, themselves, affecting the style and sensibility of the performances. The stage show reflects the sensibilities of the studio work, and, often, the two have a circular relationship. So, if I am not mistaken, Greg and Wally were in the camp by 1986, which allows them to be flavoring to the soup.

*

I never said that the Revolution wasn't diverse, but it was Wendy and Lisa who said that Prince called them and told them he was going in a different direction. So, clearly he felt that Sign "O" the Times, even if created with the core of the Revolution, was moving in a different direction, style, aesthetic, which seems to be something funkier or less metaphysical in tone, sound, and appearance, in my understanding of the aesthetic, than what the Revolution had given him to that point. So, Prince stated he was moving in a different direction not me.

*

The bottom line is that I do not have to invent racial issues. Prince's entire career has been about the manner in which race in America has been used to define and limit African Americans and how he has attempted to navigate, usurp, and manipulate the American racial issue. Sometimes he has done this by embracing the mantra of multiculturalism, sometimes he has done this by embracing androgyny, and sometimes he has done this by embracing a more black solidarity tone. In either case, to paraphrase noted poet and essayist Amiri Baraka, whatever mode Prince has chosen, it is simply more of the "changing same" of the African American struggle for place and power in America. But, I can't apologize if the truth makes you or anyone else uneasy or if it destroys your fantasy of Prince as the special, erotic Negro.

[Edited 7/24/12 23:04pm]

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

* You do understand the working of the time period then don't you? You do know that SOTT is just the Dream Factory scaled down correct? You do know that Wally & Gregory had nothing to do with the creation of the music right? You do know that SOTT music is Revolution era music? And that's not in any way shape or form taking credit from Prince and giving it to someone else.

*I agree that I believe Prince choose people for the look and personality. Which is why I don't mind the Twinz(look) From what I've read and read from band members and susan rogers talking about most of what happened in the recording studio: Gregory & Wally weren't there, just the musicians, Prince, Susan Rogers or another engineer.

* You really think the Revolution wasn't used to complicated and diversity in Prince music? I don't think it had anything to do with them trying to box him in at all. And it was Prince that said in a few 1985 interviews of how the band members actually keep him stretching and trying different things.

Prince was by no means a "Black music entertainer" Prince was Purple Music

Some things work and some things don't work, doesn't matter what cultural background you come from. American culture of Minnesota produced Prince.

Ya'll start bring these deep racial mental issues in and it has nothing to do with it. Remember the band from the start had black and white members and the camp itself was also mixed.

Let me start with your last statement first: " Ya'll start bring these deep racial mental issues in and it has nothing to do with it. Remember the band from the start had black and white members and the camp itself was also mixed ." I'm amazed at how many white people have selective naivety when it comes to Prince or any other American racial issue. Now, since you want to speak from a position of "Purple Music" authority, then why is it that you have conveniently ignored what both Owen Husney and Pepe Willie stated in Dave Hill's Prince: A Pop Life , C. Liegh McInnis' The Lyrics of Prince , and the documentary Prince: Unauthorized that Prince choose Bobby Z because he was a white drummer as much as because he was a talented drummer? So, Prince, not me or any other person like me, brings "these deep racial mental issues". The band was mixed because Prince was trying to create an image that would allow him entry into the pop and white world. That is not something that I created. That is a reality that exists. And, yes, I am sorry to burst your Paisley Park multicultural fantasy bubble, but Prince began as a "Black music entertainer." Again, both Husney and Willie stated that Dirty Mind was created (concocted) specifically to be something different than the first two albums, which were standard black music. Now, I will not accuse you of having a narrow or myopic notion of what black music is, but For You and Prince are not by any means outside the realm of traditional black music as songs from both albums were in heavy rotation on black radio stations and remain in heavy rotation on black adult contemporary stations, but only one song, "I Wanna Be Your Lover," from either album was in heavy rotation on white radio stations, and that was the white pop station, not the white rock station. So, yes, Prince began as a traditional "Black music entertainer”.

*

As for the notion that the American culture of Minnesota produced Prince, that's no different than saying that the American culture produced, effected, influenced any African American. I know that many white people want Prince to be some "special Negro" separate and apart from other African Americans, but he was just another very talented African American whose work reflects living in a very majority white area, attempting to infuse the sensibilities of his African American culture with the surrounding white culture. Yet, this is the story of most African Americans so I don't really see the point of your statement other than to prove my point. Prince may have been more open to the aesthetic sensibilities of the rock world, but, in truth, those so-called rock sensibilities are rooted in blues sensibilities, which are rooted in African American sensibilities. So, if anything, Prince’s genius was having the sense and courage to reclaim something or not allow others to tell him what constituted black music or the music that he wanted to play. Yes, Prince’s music is Purple Music, and Purple Music is, according to Hill’s book as well as Miles Davis, Husney, and Willie, reintroducing Little Richard and Jimi Hendrix to Marvin Gaye and Otis Redding, with a dash of sixties psychedelica.

*

Yes, I am well aware of the chronological period that led to Sign "O" the Times . I think in my last post I said Crystal Ball when I meant Dream Factory . However, since Greg and Wally had been security since 1986, they were there on stage being used to portray if not, themselves, affecting the style and sensibility of the performances. The stage show reflects the sensibilities of the studio work, and, often, the two have a circular relationship. So, if I am not mistaken, Greg and Wally were in the camp by 1986, which allows them to be flavoring to the soup.

*

I never said that the Revolution wasn't diverse, but it was Wendy and Lisa who said that Prince called them and told them he was going in a different direction. So, clearly he felt that Sign "O" the Times, even if created with the core of the Revolution, was moving in a different direction, style, aesthetic, which seems to be something funkier or less metaphysical in tone, sound, and appearance, in my understanding of the aesthetic, than what the Revolution had given him to that point. So, Prince stated he was moving in a different direction not me.

*

The bottom line is that I do not have to invent racial issues. Prince's entire career has been about the manner in which race in America has been used to define and limit African Americans and how he has attempted to navigate, usurp, and manipulate the American racial issue. Sometimes he has done this by embracing the mantra of multiculturalism, sometimes he has done this by embracing androgyny, and sometimes he has done this by embracing a more black solidarity tone. In either case, to paraphrase noted poet and essayist Amiri Baraka, whatever mode Prince has chosen, it is simply more of the "changing same" of the African American struggle for place and power in America. But, I can't apologize if the truth makes you or anyone else uneasy or if it destroys your fantasy of Prince as the special, erotic Negro.

[Edited 7/24/12 23:04pm]

No I don't have selective memory at all, and I'm not white lol oops I guess if you have some black in you you're all supposed to think alike my bad

Prince didn't begin as a traditional Black entertainer, nothing about Prince is traditional or traditionally black. Just because his music got played on black radio doesn't change his ideas or plans for himself.

Prince is one thing, but all this extra racial cultural stuff Prince wasn't about. As complex as he was then he was still very simple and niave about what he was doing. To the point he didn't even understand the context a term like Jack U Off

No Greg & Wally were in the live band in 1986(during the Parade tour) they were a part of security during the 1984/85 years and Greg was seen in the movie PR. No Greg & Wally werent being security in the band they represented mosly what you saw in the SOTT film: Greg mostly a player, and Wally a guy trying to make it on the hard streets of Minneapolis. For some reason Prince made fun of him a lot on stage. During the Parade tour they were just "dancers". And again they had no part of the creative process of the music.

No what happened with Prince & W & Lisa was more emotional personal stuff, it wasn't about the music. Prince years later put in2 a song the regret of that decision. It also had a lot to do with is relationship with Susannah. Sign of the Time was still 99% the music As Is that was Dream Factory. Hold on let me listen to my SOTT music and my Dream Factory similar cuts... hmmmm outside of Strange Relationships, I don't hear a difference..

Prince the androgynous racially ambiguous entertainer

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

catpark said:

^^ Look closer in that pic, Wendy is the thug.

Naww I think it's Eric or Bobby Z

In that pic Wendy punched Prince in his back...look at Lisa laughing, what bitches. And Bobby Z, Eric and Dr Fink were well thuggish.

No wonder Prince disbanded the Revolution.

OldFriends4Sale said:

No I don't have selective memory at all, and I'm not white lol oops I guess if you have some black in you you're all supposed to think alike my bad

Prince didn't begin as a traditional Black entertainer, nothing about Prince is traditional or traditionally black. Just because his music got played on black radio doesn't change his ideas or plans for himself.

Prince is one thing, but all this extra racial cultural stuff Prince wasn't about. As complex as he was then he was still very simple and niave about what he was doing. To the point he didn't even understand the context a term like Jack U Off

No Greg & Wally were in the live band in 1986(during the Parade tour) they were a part of security during the 1984/85 years and Greg was seen in the movie PR. No Greg & Wally werent being security in the band they represented mosly what you saw in the SOTT film: Greg mostly a player, and Wally a guy trying to make it on the hard streets of Minneapolis. For some reason Prince made fun of him a lot on stage. During the Parade tour they were just "dancers". And again they had no part of the creative process of the music.

No what happened with Prince & W & Lisa was more emotional personal stuff, it wasn't about the music. Prince years later put in2 a song the regret of that decision. It also had a lot to do with is relationship with Susannah. Sign of the Time was still 99% the music As Is that was Dream Factory. Hold on let me listen to my SOTT music and my Dream Factory similar cuts... hmmmm outside of Strange Relationships, I don't hear a difference..

Prince the androgynous racially ambiguous entertainer

I never said that all African Americans must think alike. I was wrong to assume that you were white, but you still have selective naivety in that I noticed that you never dared to address anything I said regarding Hill’s book or Husney and Willie, people who were there and contradict what you say. You also chose not to address my dissection of “Purple Music” or identify the layers, textures, and roots of Prince’s music. So, yes, you are still suffering from selective naivety.

*

As for you saying that Prince was not a traditional black entertainer, you sound like the American government denying that drugs are being imported to America on ocean liners, thinking that just because they say there are no drugs on those ships Americans are supposed to believe them. So, let's do it this way. I have presented a criterion of what defines someone as a traditional black entertainer. What is your criterion other than just because you say he wasn’t? You may have this fantasy in your head that Prince is some type of special, erotic Negro, but what is your criterion? The bottom line is that traditional means something stylized and accepted over time, and in regards to being a traditional black entertainer it means that black radio and the black concert circuit, often called the Chittlin' Circuit, generally have a mode of stylized performance criteria, and anyone that fits that stylized mode gains air time and stage time. To that point, obviously, Prince fit that mode because the first two albums and promotional tours (record store signings) were exclusively on black radio and the black concert circuit. Was he a new version of the traditional black entertainer? Yes. But, every ten years or so, there is a modification of that mode, which is merely what Amiri Baraka called "the changing same". That is what Prince was, just another version of black art. Now, if you can present a different criteria and show how that criteria was actually manifest in practice or action via radio and public appearances and not just some theory that you have, then I would be willing to accept your assertion that Prince was not or did not begin as a traditional black entertainer. But, based on how he made his music available and how people accessed it during those first two albums, Prince began as a traditional black entertainer.

*

The very fact that Prince had a stage role for Greg and Wally proves that Prince was moving in a different cultural direction than what he had been doing with the Revolution, and Greg and Wally were simply a physical manifestation of what Prince wanted to do and say. And, again, the timeline you present actually supports my position. Greg and Wally represented a particular cultural index that Prince wanted to add to the show that seemed to reflect his new or modified sensibility. It began as a "Famous Flames" thing in 1986 and morphed to a bit more by 1987 for the sake of humor and soul. And it is likely that Prince saw something in their off-stage personalities that he wanted to reflect on stage, which included something that he wanted to reflect in the music. And if you don't hear a big difference between Sign "O" the Times and what was created from 1983 through 1985/6, then, we just hear it differently. Sign "O" the Times is not Purple Rain, Around the World in a Day, nor Parade, all of which I love equally but differently.

*

Just because Prince had regrets about disbanding the Revolution or ending his relationship with Wendy and Lisa doesn't mean that he wasn't attempting to move in a different musical/aesthetic direction. I took the song to mean that he regretted "how" he terminated the relationship not "that" he terminated the relationship. Just because there were some emotional issues involved does not mean that Prince wasn't attempting also to move in a different musical/aesthetic direction.

*

So, you are right about one thing. Two people of color can view things differently. Let's see, "androgynous racially ambiguous entertainer," could that be Little Richard or Jimi Hendrix to whom you are referring? Face it, with all of his so-called difference, which I do think Prince was different and creative, Prince was/is merely the "changing same" of traditional black entertainment. The problem is that you, for whatever reason, even as a person of color, have a narrow or myopic notion of traditional black music that keeps you from seeing or realizing that Prince is just another branch, a wonderful branch, but just another branch on the beautifully diverse black music tree.

EyeJester7 said:

X10000000000000000 Perfectly Said! I always keep up with your posts and you execute reasoning so well! Pretty much all of my points! Thank you! You really save me some time! Lol

Thanks for the kind words.