1725topp said:

....... As for "employing an unnecessary army of background singers" and dancers that are "nothing more than a soul revue straight out of the '70s," I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. On the one hand, while I'm not the biggest fan of dancers, I understand that dancing acts/artists are a major part of Soul and R&B, which is non-existent in the Rock world, but movement, both spontaneous and choreographed, is a major part of the Soul and R&B aesthetic, and to call it unnecessary, while fair for your tastes, is a bit unfair to ask Prince not to embrace something that is a part of his personal and cultural history and aesthetic. As early as the Controversy Tour there were choreograph movements with the band, and it seems natural for this to evolve. I understand that it may not appeal to some people's tastes, but, when we understand the historical and cultural root of it, the term "unnecessary" seems a bit harsh if not myopic. As for the unnecessary singers, again that's in the ear of the beholder. I'll admit that I’d like to hear a few less covers, but the vocals of Shelby J and the girls seem to compliment well the other genres that he engages. Maybe because I was raised on the front porch of the chittlin’ circuit I am partial to the soulful greasiness of the backing vocals of Shelby J and the girls, but I think Prince manages a fine balance between all the styles/genres he desires to play.

*

And, finally, when I hear Graham and Parker play with Prince, I hear high energy, excellent playing with often unbelievable notes, and seamless blending into various forms and genres. That is not stale to me. But, again, maybe because I never saw Prince as attempting to kill the traditional forms and because I could always hear those forms resonate greatly in his work that it seems more like a natural progression to have Graham and Parker play with Prince. And, yes, Prince did say, “It’s time for a new direction/ It’s time for Jazz to die,” but on the same album he continues to embrace pure Funk, Soul, R&B, and Gospel because dichotomy or contradiction is an essential aspect of Prince’s personality and work......

^Wow...all that just says it all. I always enjoy reading your posts '1725Stopp', you pretty much nail it everytime.

[Edited 7/21/12 12:05pm]

Y all ur 'thugs' dark skinned black folks!!!???

huh?

big chick's redneck ass wasnt a thug

brenda

alan & eric leeds gangsta ass

fucouttahere!

Few people know this, but Tommy Barbarella has "Dat Thug Life" tattooed in gothic print all the way across his back.

RodeoSchro said:

Few people know this, but Tommy Barbarella has "Dat Thug Life" tattooed in gothic print all the way across his back.

RodeoSchro said:

Few people know this, but Tommy Barbarella has "Dat Thug Life" tattooed in gothic print all the way across his back.

lol

a counterfit Italian, he's a wasp

SpookyElektrix said:

Prince always made funk/r&b.

every song of him has those elements. he just added some rock flavour to it sometimes. i never think of prince as a rockartist. Prince had white peeps in his band just for marketing reasons, not because they were better. And he hung out more with his black friends, becuase they were black and he is black and they were his friends. Blacks have different kind of humour, we talk different etc. Its normal stuff. When mexicans come to america they hang out with mexicans.

eehheyyywwww

2012 statement like that are just too "boxed in"

He hung out with those friends who were MUSICIANS 1st, not black

there are 'subcultures' that always trump race or ethnicity: Music, art, technology etc

2elijah said:

^Wow...all that just says it all. I always enjoy reading your posts '1725Stopp', you pretty much nail it everytime.

[Edited 7/21/12 12:05pm]

Thanks for the kind words.

SpookyElektrix said:

Prince always made funk/r&b.

every song of him has those elements. he just added some rock flavour to it sometimes. i never think of prince as a rockartist. Prince had white peeps in his band just for marketing reasons, not because they were better. And he hung out more with his black friends, becuase they were black and he is black and they were his friends. Blacks have different kind of humour, we talk different etc. Its normal stuff. When mexicans come to america they hang out with mexicans.

While I don't think that you are trying to disparage Prince's former white band mates, it should be stated that even though he specifically wanted a "white" drummer, Bobby Z is a very good, some may even say great, drummer. So, yes, marketing was part of the reason he had white band members, but Wendy and Lisa are very good musicians and very good songwriters, and Dr. Fink is a great keyboardist. And as someone also stated, Prince socialized with black musicians more readily than he socialized with a black who wasn't a musician. Now, all of us, no matter how diligently we try not to do so, will seek or embrace certain comfort levels, which include gender and race. So, just like Wendy and Lisa and later Rosie once felt annoyed by the manner in which Prince may have allowed certain machismo or sexist elements or behavior to exist or run rampant in the band, Dr. Fink could have become as easily annoyed that Prince, in his desire to increase the Funk, Soul, R&B sensibility into the his sound and style, may have catered too much for Dr. Fink's taste to that aspect or element. I don't disagree that races and cultures may have certain unique aspects and sensibilities, but it seems that a lot of people, Prince included, can also meet and connect on aspects other than race. Yes, I'll admit that I have a certain comfort level with African Americans, but I also realize that not all African Americans think, believe, or behave in the same manner. So, most of my friends are in the arts because that is the realm in which I mostly exist. So, I engage or socialize more with white writers than I do with African Americans in general. Let me be clear. I know more, many more, African Americans than I do whites, but in relation to my daily living I engage or socialize with more white writers than I do African Americans who are not writers. And, I would assume the same of Prince just because music has been so central in his life, how he identifies himself, and how he understands and engages the world. Yes, over the past fifteen years or so Prince has made a more concerted effort to identify with and express what he views as the concerns of African Americans, and the amount or level to which he has done this has annoyed or offended many of his former white associates as well as many of his white fans. However, Prince has continued to work with and build relationships with people of all races. And, what we love must about our Prince is that he has continued to piss off people of all races also.

1725topp said:

SpookyElektrix said:

Prince always made funk/r&b.

every song of him has those elements. he just added some rock flavour to it sometimes. i never think of prince as a rockartist. Prince had white peeps in his band just for marketing reasons, not because they were better. And he hung out more with his black friends, becuase they were black and he is black and they were his friends. Blacks have different kind of humour, we talk different etc. Its normal stuff. When mexicans come to america they hang out with mexicans.

While I don't think that you are trying to disparage Prince's former white band mates, it should be stated that even though he specifically wanted a "white" drummer, Bobby Z is a very good, some may even say great, drummer. So, yes, marketing was part of the reason he had white band members, but Wendy and Lisa are very good musicians and very good songwriters, and Dr. Fink is a great keyboardist. And as someone also stated, Prince socialized with black musicians more readily than he socialized with a black who wasn't a musician. Now, all of us, no matter how diligently we try not to do so, will seek or embrace certain comfort levels, which include gender and race. So, just like Wendy and Lisa and later Rosie once felt annoyed by the manner in which Prince may have allowed certain machismo or sexist elements or behavior to exist or run rampant in the band, Dr. Fink could have become as easily annoyed that Prince, in his desire to increase the Funk, Soul, R&B sensibility into the his sound and style, may have catered too much for Dr. Fink's taste to that aspect or element. I don't disagree that races and cultures may have certain unique aspects and sensibilities, but it seems that a lot of people, Prince included, can also meet and connect on aspects other than race. Yes, I'll admit that I have a certain comfort level with African Americans, but I also realize that not all African Americans think, believe, or behave in the same manner. So, most of my friends are in the arts because that is the realm in which I mostly exist. So, I engage or socialize more with white writers than I do with African Americans in general. Let me be clear. I know more, many more, African Americans than I do whites, but in relation to my daily living I engage or socialize with more white writers than I do African Americans who are not writers. And, I would assume the same of Prince just because music has been so central in his life, how he identifies himself, and how he understands and engages the world. Yes, over the past fifteen years or so Prince has made a more concerted effort to identify with and express what he views as the concerns of African Americans, and the amount or level to which he has done this has annoyed or offended many of his former white associates as well as many of his white fans. However, Prince has continued to work with and build relationships with people of all races. And, what we love must about our Prince is that he has continued to piss off people of all races also.

im not saying that theyre not good, cuz they real good. althoug i think wendy and lisa are not the best in keys and guitars, but good enough. But his first choice was for them to be white.

OldFriends4Sale said:

SpookyElektrix said:

Prince always made funk/r&b.

every song of him has those elements. he just added some rock flavour to it sometimes. i never think of prince as a rockartist. Prince had white peeps in his band just for marketing reasons, not because they were better. And he hung out more with his black friends, becuase they were black and he is black and they were his friends. Blacks have different kind of humour, we talk different etc. Its normal stuff. When mexicans come to america they hang out with mexicans.

eehheyyywwww

2012 statement like that are just too "boxed in"

He hung out with those friends who were MUSICIANS 1st, not black

there are 'subcultures' that always trump race or ethnicity: Music, art, technology etc

I know Handel is not saying it that specific, but actually he says black people are thugs. I think thats 'boxed in'. yeah i said it.

Actually in the many books and interviews I read, there WAS some sentiment that in 1986-87 onwards, Prince was hanging closer with peeps that were a bit rough (and not even musicians) backstage etc. This sentiment was from the old Revolution Band members that felt Prince was sort of passive aggresively giving them an attitude, like "I'm going to hang out with my friends, and you don't really fit in".

I seem to remember they were allegedly drunken horsing around, and some kind of glass table being broken. Other band members were turned off.

That was the gist of at least one account.

This was about Wally and Brooks if I remember correctly.

But the only way to know for sure is to ask Eric Leeds, Dr Fink, Wendy or Lisa, or Sheila E... etc.

[Edited 7/22/12 10:55am]

SpiritOtter said:

Dear OP & 1725topp, OP, you did not appear to realise an essential factor in Princes's choices. PRINCE IS NOT A GAY BLACK MAN. 1725topp, please Google: Dr Anjan Nath | GENIUS | A Gift of GOD...please contact ntact me by email. Prince's legacy is being 'written', appropriately, as we speak and I, personally, would like to invite you to critically review aspects of the work. love, Spirit

YES....HE....IS....

We voted on this ages ago.

I wish the mods would update the Q&A section of the website so we can put

that issue to bed.

However, I think the OP is baiting....hilariously at points, but baiting none-the-less.

SpookyElektrix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

eehheyyywwww

2012 statement like that are just too "boxed in"

He hung out with those friends who were MUSICIANS 1st, not black

there are 'subcultures' that always trump race or ethnicity: Music, art, technology etc

I know Handel is not saying it that specific, but actually he says black people are thugs. I think thats 'boxed in'. yeah i said it.

Yes, that is what happens when some people allow ignorance, along with dumbass hearsay and trumped-up rumors to be their source of information.

1725topp said:

SpookyElektrix said:

Prince always made funk/r&b.

every song of him has those elements. he just added some rock flavour to it sometimes. i never think of prince as a rockartist. Prince had white peeps in his band just for marketing reasons, not because they were better. And he hung out more with his black friends, becuase they were black and he is black and they were his friends. Blacks have different kind of humour, we talk different etc. Its normal stuff. When mexicans come to america they hang out with mexicans.

While I don't think that you are trying to disparage Prince's former white band mates, it should be stated that even though he specifically wanted a "white" drummer, Bobby Z is a very good, some may even say great, drummer. So, yes, marketing was part of the reason he had white band members, but Wendy and Lisa are very good musicians and very good songwriters, and Dr. Fink is a great keyboardist. And as someone also stated, Prince socialized with black musicians more readily than he socialized with a black who wasn't a musician. Now, all of us, no matter how diligently we try not to do so, will seek or embrace certain comfort levels, which include gender and race. So, just like Wendy and Lisa and later Rosie once felt annoyed by the manner in which Prince may have allowed certain machismo or sexist elements or behavior to exist or run rampant in the band, Dr. Fink could have become as easily annoyed that Prince, in his desire to increase the Funk, Soul, R&B sensibility into the his sound and style, may have catered too much for Dr. Fink's taste to that aspect or element. I don't disagree that races and cultures may have certain unique aspects and sensibilities, but it seems that a lot of people, Prince included, can also meet and connect on aspects other than race. Yes, I'll admit that I have a certain comfort level with African Americans, but I also realize that not all African Americans think, believe, or behave in the same manner. So, most of my friends are in the arts because that is the realm in which I mostly exist. So, I engage or socialize more with white writers than I do with African Americans in general. Let me be clear. I know more, many more, African Americans than I do whites, but in relation to my daily living I engage or socialize with more white writers than I do African Americans who are not writers. And, I would assume the same of Prince just because music has been so central in his life, how he identifies himself, and how he understands and engages the world. Yes, over the past fifteen years or so Prince has made a more concerted effort to identify with and express what he views as the concerns of African Americans, and the amount or level to which he has done this has annoyed or offended many of his former white associates as well as many of his white fans. However, Prince has continued to work with and build relationships with people of all races. And, what we love must about our Prince is that he has continued to piss off people of all races also.

(Bolded part) Totally agree, and the part about him pissing people of all races off, I would say 'musically', points to some of his songs that have a socio-economic, racial, political or religious nature or let's just say a song where the meaning of the lyrics are questioned or intended to raise or awaken the conscience of the listener, which tends to create or leads to dialogue from fans, often discussed on various, social media sites, whether it's a song from the earlier days in his career to present day, i.e. songs from the 'Rainbow Children' CD, and other songs like 'Avalanche', 'Colonized Mind', 'Dreamer', and much more.

'Spelling edit'

[Edited 7/22/12 9:32am]

SpookyElektrix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

eehheyyywwww

2012 statement like that are just too "boxed in"

He hung out with those friends who were MUSICIANS 1st, not black

there are 'subcultures' that always trump race or ethnicity: Music, art, technology etc

I know Handel is not saying it that specific, but actually he says black people are thugs. I think thats 'boxed in'. yeah i said it.

I think he is talking about the quality or purpose of certain people he doesn't care for

So if in your words he's saying black people are thugs, then he must not consider Miko Weaver & Rosie Gaines, Black.

He isn't talking about race, but has lumped into 1 weak arguement ideas that many at the org has argued about as far as who they like & don't like in the band and why. (the Wally Safford & Greg Brooks part is nothing I've ever heard of which is why I questioned him did he even know of their purpose in the band at the time) and calling Shelby talentless was just way off. But a lot of fans are on the balance of how these 'outfront' back up singers help or hurt. Tony M that is a very clear dislike on most fans opinions...

he also said: Miko Weaver and Rosie Gaines who in my opinion was the absolute best female vocalist he has ever employed, treats them all with utter contempt and displayed a complete disregard for their obvious talents and superior musicianship... What a funny dude he is...

ufoclub said:

Actually in the many books and interviews I read, there WAS some sentiment that in 1986-87 onwards, Prince was hanging closer with peeps that were a bit rough (and not even musicians) backstage etc. This sentiment was from the old Revolution Band members that felt Prince was sort of passive aggresively giving them an attitude, like "I'm going to hang out with my friends, and you don't really fit in".

I seem to remember allegedly about drunken horsing around, and some kind of glass table being broken. Other band members were turned off.

That was the gist of at least one account.

This was about Wally and Brooks is I remember correctly.

But the only way to know for sure is to ask Eric Leeds, Dr Fink, Wendy or Lisa, or Sheila E... etc.

If this is true, then Prince early on was trying to sabotage his own career.

I thought Wally or Gregory initially was 1 of his entourage bodyguards.

1 of the things I hate in listening to some rehearsals is hearing Greg Brooks yelling at the band, like he need to keep them pumped up. I can see why most of them were ready to take off

in a lot of the live SOTT shows Prince would use those 2 to make fun of and ridicule openly though

2elijah said:

the part about him pissing people of all races off, I would say 'musically', points to some of his songs that have a socio-economic, racial, political or religious nature or let's just say a song where the meaning of the lyrics are questioned or intended to raise or awaken the conscience of the listener, which tends to create or leads to dialogue from fans, often discussed on various, social media sites, whether it's a song from the earlier days in his career to present day, i.e. songs from the 'Rainbow Children' CD, and other songs like 'Avalanche', 'Colonized Mind', 'Dreamer', and much more.

I agree also, and, of course, that's one of the things that I love about him.

ufoclub said: Prince was hanging closer with peeps that were a bit rough (and not even musicians) backstage etc…Other band members were turned off.

*

and

*

OldFriends4Sale said: If this is true, then Prince early on was trying to sabotage his own career. I thought Wally or Gregory initially was 1 of his entourage bodyguards. 1 of the things I hate in listening to some rehearsals is hearing Greg Brooks yelling at the band, like he need to keep them pumped up. I can see why most of them were ready to take off.

*

I can completely understand why members of the Revolution may have been “turned off” by the incorporation of new members, especially members that have different ideas of style, fun, and appropriate behavior and if those new members were a bit more aggressive and rowdy than the Revolution. And I wonder how much of this had to do with Prince thinking that while he had enjoyed investigating and experimenting with the metaphysical issues and sounds of Around the World in a Day and Parade he also wanted to return to more tangible socio-political issues of “Sign ‘O” the Times,” and he felt that surrounding himself with people like Greg and Wally would allow him to tap into that mode of expression. To be clear, it isn’t as if Prince completely abandoned tangible socio-political issues. Songs, such as “America” and “Paisley Park,” attempt to connect the physical to the metaphysical or show that most physical problems are a result of or are a manifestation of metaphysical/spiritual problems or ignorance. Thus, in “Temptation” the real problem isn’t the lust as much as it is that the protagonist has to learn that there is a difference between love and lust, and when this is learned he can evolve. And, this connecting of the physical to the metaphysical continues throughout Sign “O” the Times and Lovesexy, but Sign “O” the Times was hailed by critics and fans as a return to the funk (meaning a return to blackness), and part of me wonders if it was perceived that way because of the sound, with songs such as “Adore,” “U Got the Look,” and “It,” or was it perceived that way because of the absence of Wendy and Lisa who, by the end of Parade/Under the Cherry Moon, had become just as recognizable as Prince, appearing as a three-headed songwriting tandem in a couple of Rolling Stone articles. In one of those articles, Prince says “Wendy makes we appear okay to certain people. When I sneer, she smiles.” So just as Prince had used their (Wendy, Lisa, Bobby Z, and Fink) talent and race to create a multiracial band to navigate and manipulate music categories rooted in race, it is possible that he decided to release them and embrace other artists who could provide the sound and look (appearance) he needed for Sign “O” the Times.

*

Possibly Prince chooses people for two aspects, for their talent and for their personality or look. We know that he took Morris Day’s word that Jesse Johnson could play and hired him as much for his look as for his musical abilities. So, possibly Greg and Wally had a look and a sensibility that Prince felt he needed to make and present Sign “O” the Times in the manner that he felt would make the cultural impact that he needed. And, yes, Sign “O” the Times grows from Crystal Ball, but Greg and Wally had been around long enough that Prince would have noticed something about their personality and style that would fit with his new direction with Sign “O” the Times. And while I like Rock-n-Roll, I don’t think that having non-musicians in the studio while recording an album is a prevalent in Rock-n-Roll as it is in Blues, Funk, Soul, and R&B. A lot of what occurs in Hip Hop is portrayed as being exclusive to Hip Hop, but the notion of having non-musicians in the studio because they provide some sense of community style, aesthetic, or flavor that the songwriters or musicians need to create or reproduce that sound from their background is as old as the recording of African American music. Additionally, people can ignore another fact as long as they want because it is something that does not please their aesthetic taste or sensibility, but during the Parade Tour, Greg, Wally, and Jerome played the Famous Flames to Prince’s James Brown perfectly. Their dance routines were excellent—almost perfect timing, smooth, and funny! So that, in and of itself, proves that Greg and Wally weren’t useless to those of us who can appreciate the value of old school dancing and Prince’s funky yet humorous interpretation of it.

*

Finally, yes, I can understand how someone who was by then a seasoned musician could be offended by Brooks trying to “keep them energized,” but would their annoyance or anger be because Brooks was going over the line with his hyping or because they were not use to experiencing the cultural aspect of “the hype man” which was a staple in Funk and R&B tradition? So, while much of their annoyance and anger can be seen as Prince not being sensitive to certain members of the Revolution, how much of the annoyance and hurt feelings can be attributed to certain members of the Revolution wanting Prince to be who they wanted him to be and not recognizing that he is as complicated as his music and that he would always be inspired by the various aspects of African American culture, even those aspects that may be foreign or not pleasurable to them? Often, fans on this cite will state that Prince doesn’t need to use “this” or “that,” and the “this” or “that” will usually be some element or aspect of old school black music culture. And for me, it is not a question of whether or not Prince “needs” it but moreso a question of how can someone tell Prince that he shouldn’t use or be privy to every aspect or element of the forms and cultures in which he was raised? It is one thing to say, “I don’t like when Prince does _______ or uses ______.” It is something else when one says Prince is above _______ or he is better than ________ or too good to use ________” because the statement is actually saying that Prince is above or better than the culture that produced him. And those statements always cause me to wonder if some people like Prince because they perceive him as an erotic but “special” Negro somehow different, above, and better than other Negroes, which is why they then have so much distain or feel so betrayed when he embraces these forms or elements.

Some people just don't like change.

OldFriends4Sale said: If this is true, then Prince early on was trying to sabotage his own career. I thought Wally or Gregory initially was 1 of his entourage bodyguards. 1 of the things I hate in listening to some rehearsals is hearing Greg Brooks yelling at the band, like he need to keep them pumped up. I can see why most of them were ready to take off.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

1725Stopp said:

"...but during the Parade Tour, Greg, Wally, and Jerome played the Famous Flames to Prince’s James Brown perfectly

1725Stopp, good observation about Wally, Greg and Jerome reflective of JB's 'Flames', as they were his 'hype' people and made his shows very exciting, as well as JB's dancers. I especially love the JB video from the 'TAMI' shows that I recently saw about 2 years on youtube. Amazing performance and I loved his 'Flame' dancers and their unbelievable energy trying to keep up with whom was the hardest, working man in show business.

1725Stopp said:

....but would their annoyance or anger be because Brooks was going over the line with his hyping or because they were not use to experiencing the cultural aspect of “the hype man” which was a staple in Funk and R&B tradition?

Another good point. All 3 of his current back-up singers play the 'hype' person during the concerts which assists in promoting audience energy.

1725Sstopp said:

And for me, it is not a question of whether or not Prince “needs” it but moreso a question of how can someone tell Prince that he shouldn’t use or be privy to every aspect or element of the forms and cultures in which he was raised?

Totally agree. It's ridiculous that someone thinks they can tell a skilled and experienced musician/artist with a 30 plus year catalogue and music history, what type of music he should or should not focus on or play or worse yet, tell him which musician/artist should not be allowed to associate with him, assist with their career or let the spotlight shine on their talent, especially during one of his concerts.

1725Stopp said:

It's one thing to say, “I don’t like when Prince does _______ or uses ______.” It is something else when one says Prince is above _______ or he is better than ________ or too good to use ________” because the statement is actually saying that Prince is above or better than the culture that produced him. And those statements always cause me to wonder if some people like Prince because they perceive him as an erotic but “special” Negro somehow different, above, and better than other Negroes, which is why they then have so much distain or feel so betrayed when he embraces these forms or elements."

You hit the nail on the head once again, and I believe you express an uncomfortable truth, that many dance around, when they make those type statements or ask questions as to why he is performing with specific musicians/artists, since the days he no longer has the Revolution band members, as part of his music career, and where most of the popularity of the Revolution band members were because of the Purple Rain era. But then he had other musicians/artists like you stated during the Sign of the Times/Lovesexy eras, where he moved on from the Revolution band members, as well as the from the type of music he perrformed with them, and took various directions with his music, not allowing himself to be 'trapped' in one form of music or era.

What's interesting is that from the beginning of his music career, Prince let his fans and the music industry know, that his intentions was never to limit himself to 'one' genre of music or era of his music career. I would think by now some Prince fans would know this, and stop trying to lock him into their own, selfish boxes, and get off the delusional trip, thinking they could limit the form of music he plays or somehow believe they have some special privilege to decide which type of musicians/artists, should be allowed to perform on stage with him or be part of his band.

[Edited 7/22/12 18:22pm]

Please tell me you're on drugs.

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said: If this is true, then Prince early on was trying to sabotage his own career. I thought Wally or Gregory initially was 1 of his entourage bodyguards. 1 of the things I hate in listening to some rehearsals is hearing Greg Brooks yelling at the band, like he need to keep them pumped up. I can see why most of them were ready to take off.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Totally agree. It's ridiculous that someone thinks they can tell a skilled and experienced musician/artist with a 30 plus year catalogue and music history, what type of music he should or should not focus on or play or worse yet, tell him which musician/artist should not be allowed to associate with him, assist with their career or let the spotlight shine on their talent, especially during one of his concerts.

1725Stopp said:

It's one thing to say, “I don’t like when Prince does _______ or uses ______.” It is something else when one says Prince is above _______ or he is better than ________ or too good to use ________” because the statement is actually saying that Prince is above or better than the culture that produced him. And those statements always cause me to wonder if some people like Prince because they perceive him as an erotic but “special” Negro somehow different, above, and better than other Negroes, which is why they then have so much distain or feel so betrayed when he embraces these forms or elements."

You hit the nail on the head once again, and I believe you express an uncomfortable truth, that many dance around, when they make those type statements or ask questions as to why he is performing with specific musicians/artists, since the days he no longer has the Revolution band members, as part of his music career, and where most of the popularity of the Revolution band members were because of the Purple Rain era. But then he had other musicians/artists like you stated during the Sign of the Times/Lovesexy eras, where he moved on from the Revolution band members, as well as the from the type of music he perrformed with them, and took various directions with his music, not allowing himself to be 'trapped' in one form of music or era.

What's interesting is that from the beginning of his music career, Prince let his fans and the music industry know, that his intentions was never to limit himself to 'one' genre of music or era of his music career. I would think by now some Prince fans would know this, and stop trying to lock him into their own, selfish boxes, and get off the delusional trip, thinking they could limit the form of music he plays or somehow believe they have some special privilege to decide which type of musicians/artists, should be allowed to perform on stage with him or be part of his band.

[Edited 7/22/12 18:22pm]

Weird: when I hit reply the 'site' seemed to pick what it wanted to show for me to respond too, it cut the response on it's own. hmmmmm

remember it was the Revolution era that really stopped him from being trapped in a particular style of music which is why we got the Camille music SOTT music Black album and even Lovesexy music

I will say the music that he performed during the SOTT era was Revolution music ie the Dream Factory, it was even moreso Revulion music. And not music initially created with the 'official' SOTT band including the Black album music and Lovesexy isn't that far a stretch from his previous sound. Eye Know from LS was a full Revolution cut called Ball (you hear Gregory yelling on this one)

Also Dr Fink Levi Eric & Atlanta Bliss where in the Revolution and Sheila E & Levi being a part of the "Purple Reign" of 1984-1986 and of course Wally & Gregory were dancers for the show.

It didn't take long for him to get rid of the 2 dancers by Lovesexy

SpiritOtter said:

Dear OP & 1725topp, OP, you did not appear to realise an essential factor in Princes's choices. PRINCE IS NOT A GAY BLACK MAN. 1725topp, please Google: Dr Anjan Nath | GENIUS | A Gift of GOD...please contact ntact me by email. Prince's legacy is being 'written', appropriately, as we speak and I, personally, would like to invite you to critically review aspects of the work. love, Spirit

This has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING.

2elijah said:

^Strange becsuse I was in agreement with 1725stopp's comments, not your comments, but wben you responded to my comment, it made it look like I am in agreement with you on the topic which I am not.Sometimes it is better to just go back and correct the glitch. Anyway P's style of music did change from when W&L was out of the group, and became more varied and I mean that im a good way, because he did not trap himself in ome era or genre of music and thank goodness for that. [Edited 7/22/12 21:30pm]

It only reposted 1 line or something,

Also I really don't understand why that one paragraph was to agree or disagree. Did you read it?

I made a person comment about hearing Greg yelling during the rehearsals. You were disagreeing with that? Did you disagree that Gregory/Wally was apart of his entourage/bodyguard prior to the band? Which is true. That being said, I didn't mind Gregory-Jerome-Wally Gregory-Cat-Wally as dancers. I just don't understand why that paragraph was including in your 'response' since you never really responded. I made a comment, stated a fact, asked a question and expressed an opinion about a specific event.

I can understand BrownMarks feelings of being placed in the back behind them in most of the live shows. But especially during the SOTT era there was some kind of "Hard Knock Life" thing Prince was trying to do-combination with Madhouse. I don't know if it succesfully translated but I liked the option. Didn't care for the Game Boys.

It just gets really confusing when people try to respond to 2+ people in 1 post especially when you weren't clear 2 me on what you were disagreeing with. I don't need passive agressive responses. Either respond to my post directly or don't.

I don't understand in what way in 1980 did his style of music change from the 1980's style that didn't feel like 1980's music.

Also Prince music from GB was 90% Revolution music from the Dream Factory project & Tick Tick Bang was (remixed) from the Controversy era and the Times music alot came from the Purple Rain-Parade era such as Chocolate with Wendy & Lisa, Jerk Out with Prince & Mazarati

1.Can't Stop This Feeling I Got

Can't Stop This Feeling I Got" was from 1982, but later updated in 1986 for his unrel project Dream Factory,

4.The Question Of U

The Question of U was from 1985 during the Parade sessions, surviving with little updating 2 the original version.

7.We Can Funk

We Can Funk was from 1982, but later updated in 1986 for his unreleased project Dream Factory,

8.Joy In Repetition

Joy In Repetition" was a Crystal Ball outtake from 1986 that survived unchanged.

10.Tick, Tick, Bang

Tick, Tick, Bang" was originally from 1981 during the Controversy sessions

When you say more varied, I don't know what that means. More varied how.(not even a question) you didn't seem to know or understand that SOTT music WAS Revolution music, that a lot of the music released from 1987-1990 WAS from the Revolution period which by most fans account factually produced the greatest volume of music of different styles and directions. You seemed to conclude the Purple Rain music as what the Revolution did or was defined by, but how can you say that Purple Rain ATWIAD the protege music Parade the DreamFactory/Crystal Ball/Camille music/SOTT was not a pure example of diversity of styles and musical genre (that hasn't been repeated yet) I'm hella glad we don't have a bunch of Tony M attempted rap songs during that period.

Not only is most of the SOTT album 'Revolution era' music Susannah Lisa Wendy & the Revolution in various forms are on the SOTT album, not the full band that rendered it live. Prince put it out as a solo effort but it wasn't

The Lovesexy album is easly a combination of styles from his previous albums.

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

^Strange becsuse I was in agreement with 1725stopp's comments, not your comments, but wben you responded to my comment, it made it look like I am in agreement with you on the topic which I am not.Sometimes it is better to just go back and correct the glitch. Anyway P's style of music did change from when W&L was out of the group, and became more varied and I mean that im a good way, because he did not trap himself in ome era or genre of music and thank goodness for that. [Edited 7/22/12 21:30pm]

It only reposted 1 line or something,

Also I really don't understand why that one paragraph was to agree or disagree. Did you read it?

I made a person comment about hearing Greg yelling during the rehearsals. You were disagreeing with that? Did you disagree that Gregory/Wally was apart of his entourage/bodyguard prior to the band? Which is true. That being said, I didn't mind Gregory-Jerome-Wally Gregory-Cat-Wally as dancers. I just don't understand why that paragraph was including in your 'response' since you never really responded. I made a comment, stated a fact, asked a question and expressed an opinion about a specific event.

I can understand BrownMarks feelings of being placed in the back behind them in most of the live shows. But especially during the SOTT era there was some kind of "Hard Knock Life" thing Prince was trying to do-combination with Madhouse. I don't know if it succesfully translated but I liked the option. Didn't care for the Game Boys.

It just gets really confusing when people try to respond to 2+ people in 1 post especially when you weren't clear 2 me on what you were disagreeing with. I don't need passive agressive responses. Either respond to my post directly or don't.

I don't understand in what way in 1980 did his style of music change from the 1980's style that didn't feel like 1980's music.

Also Prince music from GB was 90% Revolution music from the Dream Factory project & Tick Tick Bang was (remixed) from the Controversy era and the Times music alot came from the Purple Rain-Parade era such as Chocolate with Wendy & Lisa, Jerk Out with Prince & Mazarati

1.Can't Stop This Feeling I Got

Can't Stop This Feeling I Got" was from 1982, but later updated in 1986 for his unrel project Dream Factory,

4.The Question Of U

The Question of U was from 1985 during the Parade sessions, surviving with little updating 2 the original version.

7.We Can Funk

We Can Funk was from 1982, but later updated in 1986 for his unreleased project Dream Factory,

8.Joy In Repetition

Joy In Repetition" was a Crystal Ball outtake from 1986 that survived unchanged.

10.Tick, Tick, Bang

Tick, Tick, Bang" was originally from 1981 during the Controversy sessions

When you say more varied, I don't know what that means. More varied how.(not even a question) you didn't seem to know or understand that SOTT music WAS Revolution music, that a lot of the music released from 1987-1990 WAS from the Revolution period which by most fans account factually produced the greatest volume of music of different styles and directions. You seemed to conclude the Purple Rain music as what the Revolution did or was defined by, but how can you say that Purple Rain ATWIAD the protege music Parade the DreamFactory/Crystal Ball/Camille music/SOTT was not a pure example of diversity of styles and musical genre (that hasn't been repeated yet) I'm hella glad we don't have a bunch of Tony M attempted rap songs during that period.

Not only is most of the SOTT album 'Revolution era' music Susannah Lisa Wendy & the Revolution in various forms are on the SOTT album, not the full band that rendered it live. Prince put it out as a solo effort but it wasn't

The Lovesexy album is easly a combination of styles from his previous albums.

It's silly to ask me if I read something, when I responded to it. Prince played pop rock music long before W&L joined the band. I realize that some fans want so bad to credit W&L for P's entire music career, but they were not the only musicians that were part of P's music career or part of his band. In my opinion, he's doing just fine without W&L, and W&L are only known by his fans because it was the Purple Rain movie that is responsible for anyone knowing who they are as a team.

I gather you are a diehard W&L fan, which is obvious, and that you would probably love to see Prince back with them and the other Revolution members, but in my opinion, they do not define Prince, but were among many other musicians/artists that were at one time, part of his band and music career. He's moved on long after they separated.

I am not going to go through some long, drawn out 'back and forth' with you about W&L, as I was enjoying conversing with orger 1725Stopp's comments. So I will just have to end the conversation on this topic with me and you, where I am ending it with you. No disrespect though. I will wait for 1725Stopp's response to my post, if he wishes to do so.

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It only reposted 1 line or something,

Also I really don't understand why that one paragraph was to agree or disagree. Did you read it?

I made a person comment about hearing Greg yelling during the rehearsals. You were disagreeing with that? Did you disagree that Gregory/Wally was apart of his entourage/bodyguard prior to the band? Which is true. That being said, I didn't mind Gregory-Jerome-Wally Gregory-Cat-Wally as dancers. I just don't understand why that paragraph was including in your 'response' since you never really responded. I made a comment, stated a fact, asked a question and expressed an opinion about a specific event.

I can understand BrownMarks feelings of being placed in the back behind them in most of the live shows. But especially during the SOTT era there was some kind of "Hard Knock Life" thing Prince was trying to do-combination with Madhouse. I don't know if it succesfully translated but I liked the option. Didn't care for the Game Boys.

It just gets really confusing when people try to respond to 2+ people in 1 post especially when you weren't clear 2 me on what you were disagreeing with. I don't need passive agressive responses. Either respond to my post directly or don't.

I don't understand in what way in 1980 did his style of music change from the 1980's style that didn't feel like 1980's music.

Also Prince music from GB was 90% Revolution music from the Dream Factory project & Tick Tick Bang was (remixed) from the Controversy era and the Times music alot came from the Purple Rain-Parade era such as Chocolate with Wendy & Lisa, Jerk Out with Prince & Mazarati

1.Can't Stop This Feeling I Got

Can't Stop This Feeling I Got" was from 1982, but later updated in 1986 for his unrel project Dream Factory,

4.The Question Of U

The Question of U was from 1985 during the Parade sessions, surviving with little updating 2 the original version.

7.We Can Funk

We Can Funk was from 1982, but later updated in 1986 for his unreleased project Dream Factory,

8.Joy In Repetition

Joy In Repetition" was a Crystal Ball outtake from 1986 that survived unchanged.

10.Tick, Tick, Bang

Tick, Tick, Bang" was originally from 1981 during the Controversy sessions

When you say more varied, I don't know what that means. More varied how.(not even a question) you didn't seem to know or understand that SOTT music WAS Revolution music, that a lot of the music released from 1987-1990 WAS from the Revolution period which by most fans account factually produced the greatest volume of music of different styles and directions. You seemed to conclude the Purple Rain music as what the Revolution did or was defined by, but how can you say that Purple Rain ATWIAD the protege music Parade the DreamFactory/Crystal Ball/Camille music/SOTT was not a pure example of diversity of styles and musical genre (that hasn't been repeated yet) I'm hella glad we don't have a bunch of Tony M attempted rap songs during that period.

Not only is most of the SOTT album 'Revolution era' music Susannah Lisa Wendy & the Revolution in various forms are on the SOTT album, not the full band that rendered it live. Prince put it out as a solo effort but it wasn't

The Lovesexy album is easly a combination of styles from his previous albums.

It's silly to ask me if I read something, when I responded to it. Prince played pop rock music long before W&L joined the band. I realize that some fans want so bad to credit W&L for P's entire music career, but they were not the only musicians that were part of P's music career or part of his band. In my opinion, he's doing just fine without W&L, and W&L are only known by his fans because it was the Purple Rain movie that is responsible for anyone knowing who they are as a team.

I gather you are a diehard W&L fan, which is obvious, and that you would probably love to see Prince back with them and the other Revolution members, but in my opinion, they do not define Prince, but were among many other musicians/artists that were at one time, part of his band and music career. He's moved on long after they separated.

I am not going to go through some long, drawn out 'back and forth' with you about W&L, as I was enjoying conversing with orger 1725Stopp's comments. So I will just have to end the conversation on this topic with me and you, where I am ending it with you. No disrespect though. I will wait for 1725Stopp's response to my post, if he wishes to do so.

Like I said your 'round about response to my post which had nothing to do with Wendy & Lisa' didn't make sense. Which is why responding to 2+ people like that doesn't work

No I'm not a hardcore W&L fan I'm a hardcore 1978-1989 Prince years fan. And you should know Lisa Coleman was working with Prince closely since 1980 pre Dirty Mind.

If all that you posted above was what fuelled your reply it's another reason to address someone directly on what they said, instead insinuating you know why they are saying what they are saying.

You included me in your post baby, I know how the nip clamps twist when you see my posts.

If you were enjoying a conversation with 1725... again, it made absolutely no sense that you include mine in that enjoyable conversation. Passive Agressive conversations never work.

Again if you are going to make statement that you can't defend back and are factually wrong about the music then you shouldn't make it. Again most of Prince's best releases from SOTT-GB happened to have been created with the Revolution.

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

It's silly to ask me if I read something, when I responded to it. Prince played pop rock music long before W&L joined the band. I realize that some fans want so bad to credit W&L for P's entire music career, but they were not the only musicians that were part of P's music career or part of his band. In my opinion, he's doing just fine without W&L, and W&L are only known by his fans because it was the Purple Rain movie that is responsible for anyone knowing who they are as a team.

I gather you are a diehard W&L fan, which is obvious, and that you would probably love to see Prince back with them and the other Revolution members, but in my opinion, they do not define Prince, but were among many other musicians/artists that were at one time, part of his band and music career. He's moved on long after they separated.

I am not going to go through some long, drawn out 'back and forth' with you about W&L, as I was enjoying conversing with orger 1725Stopp's comments. So I will just have to end the conversation on this topic with me and you, where I am ending it with you. No disrespect though. I will wait for 1725Stopp's response to my post, if he wishes to do so.

Like I said your 'round about response to my post which had nothing to do with Wendy & Lisa' didn't make sense. Which is why responding to 2+ people like that doesn't work

No I'm not a hardcore W&L fan I'm a hardcore 1978-1989 Prince years fan.

If all that you posted above was what fuelled your reply it's another reason to address someone directly on what they said, instead insinuating you know why they are saying what they are saying.

You included me in your post baby, I know how the nip clamps twist when you see my posts.

If you were enjoying a conversation with 1725... again, it made absolutely no sense that you include mine in that enjoyable conversation. Passive Agressive conversations never work.

Again if you are going to make a statement that you can't defend back and are factually wrong about the music then you shouldn't make it. Again most of Prince's best releases from SOTT-GB happened to have been created with the Revolution.

Ok, have a great day OF4S.

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Like I said your 'round about response to my post which had nothing to do with Wendy & Lisa' didn't make sense. Which is why responding to 2+ people like that doesn't work

No I'm not a hardcore W&L fan I'm a hardcore 1978-1989 Prince years fan.

If all that you posted above was what fuelled your reply it's another reason to address someone directly on what they said, instead insinuating you know why they are saying what they are saying.

You included me in your post baby, I know how the nip clamps twist when you see my posts.

If you were enjoying a conversation with 1725... again, it made absolutely no sense that you include mine in that enjoyable conversation. Passive Agressive conversations never work.

Again if you are going to make a statement that you can't defend back and are factually wrong about the music then you shouldn't make it. Again most of Prince's best releases from SOTT-GB happened to have been created with the Revolution.

Ok, have a great day OF4S.

1725topp said:

2elijah said:

^Wow...all that just says it all. I always enjoy reading your posts '1725Stopp', you pretty much nail it everytime.

[Edited 7/21/12 12:05pm]

Thanks for the kind words.

As always, no problem.