thebanishedone said:

Prince don't have to pay anybody.many musicians would give their left nut to play with Prince.Prince is not older then members of U2. Prince could have a hit if he have a great song with good promotion. Nowdays there are some great songs on the charts.Somebody That I Used to know by Gotye is a good song actually,with indie like flavour.this song would never be a hit if it was released during last decades faux rnb hip hop lame beats era.but nowdays melody is back,synth pop is all about catchy melodies [Edited 7/11/12 16:31pm]

Prince was born in 1958. All the members of U2 were born in 1960 or 1961. So if you still think Prince isn't older than U2, then you really need to work on your Math.

Yes, you are right, Prince doesn't have to pay anybody anything. The fans who go to the show to worship Prince's hairstyle don't care who is in the band. They don't care that Andy Allo learned to play guitar at a truck stop in 2010.

Prince always talks about being a serious musician...

A serious musician like Miles Davis paid decent money to World Class musicians to have a world class band.

Prince is probably more talented than Miles was, but Prince worries too much about his clothes and his hair to take his craft as serious as he should.

Prince always says "Real Music by Real Musicians," and then sings Karaoke over samples of his own songs. No other serious musician does this. This is lame ass bullshit.

Gotye is 31, and is damn lucky to have a hit at that age. It is impossible for Prince at this point.

funkyhead said:

JoeTyler said:

his hardcore "fans" have been divided since 1985, so...

Prince needs a new hit single to reconquer the mainstream audience; fuck his never-satisfied hardcore fans, I mean it: fuck'em

it will only happen in Europe where the radio is slightly more free + the love & respect for him here is still very high. Fans of very artist are always divided, hell I hated Kiss when it first came out. The hard core [& i am certainly one of them] are frustrated because we know what he is capable of - unlike say Elton, Stevie etc who really shot their loads years ago P's piss poor albums are [IMHO] down to very poor decision making, the lack of a producer or at least strong musical influences such as W&L to guide him. His mojo is there live but for whatever reason he is holding it back on albums. I also feel that he has lost faith in the whole idea of an album as a form of artistic statement.

thanks; a prime example of a never-satisfied "hard core" (aka "pain in the *ss") fan: Musicology, 3121, LotusFlow3r AND 20Ten were all excellent B+ late career semi-classics

It would if it was a commercial release, but it wouldn't be a commercial release.

Prince would make out just fine.

Some of you are saying he should try to appeal to teenagers in order to make a hit album. Whether that be with his lyrical content or something else.

Then some of you reply with "he's a 54-year-old man and would look ridiculous trying to appeal to teenagers." (which I agree!)

To appeal to teenagers (and basically anyone with a creative spirit), he just needs to be HIMSELF. He needs to put out an album as quirky and as weird as he wants. And when I say be himself, I mean totally be himself. Adults conform to the norm, for better or for worse. Even Prince. There is a LOT of pressure from society as you get older to just fall in line. But the reason why Johnny Cash (the senior citizen Johnny Cash), Iggy Pop, Morrissey and even Prince to an extent are still "hip with the kids" is not because they sing lyrics trying to relate to kids. It's because they sing true to themselves, NOT trying to be commercial. In short, they just be themselves. Kids pick up on sincerity. THAT is makes one hip. When Prince released Purple Rain, he was being himself. He wasn't TRYING to relate to kids, because he WAS a kid. If he released an equivalant of Purple Rain today, in other words completely being himself and letting loose, not trying to impress ANYONE but himself, then he could have a HIP record. I don't know about HIT, but HIP for sure.

berniejobs said:

Some of you are saying he should try to appeal to teenagers in order to make a hit album. Whether that be with his lyrical content or something else.

Then some of you reply with "he's a 54-year-old man and would look ridiculous trying to appeal to teenagers." (which I agree!)

To appeal to teenagers (and basically anyone with a creative spirit), he just needs to be HIMSELF. He needs to put out an album as quirky and as weird as he wants. And when I say be himself, I mean totally be himself. Adults conform to the norm, for better or for worse. Even Prince. There is a LOT of pressure from society as you get older to just fall in line. But the reason why Johnny Cash (the senior citizen Johnny Cash), Iggy Pop, Morrissey and even Prince to an extent are still "hip with the kids" is not because they sing lyrics trying to relate to kids. It's because they sing true to themselves, NOT trying to be commercial. In short, they just be themselves. Kids pick up on sincerity. THAT is makes one hip. When Prince released Purple Rain, he was being himself. He wasn't TRYING to relate to kids, because he WAS a kid. If he released an equivalant of Purple Rain today, in other words completely being himself and letting loose, not trying to impress ANYONE but himself, then he could have a HIP record. I don't know about HIT, but HIP for sure.

Yup yup.

While I don't think that Prince will have another hit album, Santana showed with Supernatural that an 'over the hill' act way past his prime can have a hit album if the right elements line up:

-Accessible, radio friends songs that appeal to young people

-Little or no talk about Jehova (this alienates a large portion of the audience, and as billy sparks put it, it's a "bunch of bullshit nobody wants to hear you play")

-A big marketing plan on par with a Mariah Carey Album. Interviews, commercials, etc

-A world tour that plays both the hits, and the album material

-Swearing

-Sexy, dirty songs

The last Prince song that did anything on the charts was Black Sweat. Is it a coincidence it was very modern sounding and the lyrics were about super hot, steamy sex? That's what people want to hear from Prince, modern music about dirty sex. Not the darth vader voice and bible verses

JoeTyler said:

Musicology, 3121, LotusFlow3r AND 20Ten were all excellent B+ late career semi-classics

You cray cray.

The first half of 3121 could be a B+ as you can play it for people and they'll think Prince hasn't lost his mind. However to put Lotus and 20ten above anything other then an F is pure lunacy.

20ten is an embarrassment of an album. Put 'Everybody Loves Me' on for some people who aren't hardcore Prince fans and see how they react. And Lotusfailur3 with it's lame, Santana knock off musak style guitar playing and covers of other peoples work is just embarrassing. The father of one of my students is the new guitar player for CCR (the original having passed away). And he listened to Lotus and said "Wow, I've heard Prince play guitar a lot better then this. On a technical level, this is laughably bad"

The last passable tracks (not entire album, but just tracks that weren't terrible) were on Planet Earth. Everything since then has been self indulgent horse crap and EVERYONE OF US HERE KNOW IT

There's NOTHING on lotus or 20ten that can stand up to anything off 'diamonds and pearls'. Hell, there's nothing on 20ten or lotus that can even stand up to most of the songs on 'New Power Soul'

And if someone on the org makes the statement that they don't like Prince's new output, they are telling the truth, not being a pain in the ass. Maybe it's the people who think that the complete and utter embarrassment that is 20ten is a "B+" who are actually the pains in the ass.

Of course it would bomb. These deadasses these days don't like music that actually sounds good. They want something boring as hell because they've been raised on thugged out nursing home music.

For years I've said he should just make stuff for the fans that have been with him for years and the hell with everyone else. We're the main ones that have been buying his stuff anyway and apparently he's still making a comfortable living, MUCH moreso than any other artist that came from his era. He picks up an occassional new fan when he sells out but it only makes things worse because they keep wanting him to make more sellout music.

.

.

.

[Edited 7/15/12 7:25am]

Wildboy said:

Prince just needs to focus on crafting nuanced and masterful albums. Me'shell Ndegeocello has been doing it for years and, in my opinion has surpassed Prince in artistry and in musical skill.

thanks2joniandu said:

Prince just needs to focus on crafting nuanced and masterful albums. Me'shell Ndegeocello has been doing it for years and, in my opinion has surpassed Prince in artistry and in musical skill.

Me'Shell is a great artist in her own right, but she has a limited market. She plays to her market and Prince, his - apples & oranges.

I agree that Prince focusing on his style is best, he's in the industry so he has a good sense of what works for now, IMO.

[Edited 7/15/12 11:47am]

thanks2joniandu said:

Prince just needs to focus on crafting nuanced and masterful albums. Me'shell Ndegeocello has been doing it for years and, in my opinion has surpassed Prince in artistry and in musical skill.

Your post loses value when you compare artists especially artists far apart from their sounds as Prince and Me'shell.

Timmy84 said:

thanks2joniandu said:

Prince just needs to focus on crafting nuanced and masterful albums. Me'shell Ndegeocello has been doing it for years and, in my opinion has surpassed Prince in artistry and in musical skill.

Your post loses value when you compare artists especially artists far apart from their sounds as Prince and Me'shell.

Exactly. Prince's musical palette is so mu h more than let me smoke your herb Im high as fuck sounding Meshell.

Everyone uses Meshell, NIN/Reznor etc as examples of people who have done things right with their one trick pony sound.

Im a fanatic of both but some orgers act like they dont know the purple basics even 25 years in.

Prince is Bowie yall....get with it.

rdhull said:

Timmy84 said:

Your post loses value when you compare artists especially artists far apart from their sounds as Prince and Me'shell.

Exactly. Prince's musical palette is so mu h more than let me smoke your herb Im high as fuck sounding Meshell.

Everyone uses Meshell, NIN/Reznor etc as examples of people who have done things right with their one trick pony sound.

Im a fanatic of both but some orgers act like they dont know the purple basics even 25 years in.

Prince is Bowie yall....get with it.

I will never for one understand the Trent Reznor comparisons. I love them both but they're not the same lol

Timmy84 said:

rdhull said:

Exactly. Prince's musical palette is so mu h more than let me smoke your herb Im high as fuck sounding Meshell.

Everyone uses Meshell, NIN/Reznor etc as examples of people who have done things right with their one trick pony sound.

Im a fanatic of both but some orgers act like they dont know the purple basics even 25 years in.

Prince is Bowie yall....get with it.

I will never for one understand the Trent Reznor comparisons. I love them both but they're not the same lol

I think a lot of folks used Trent as a web/performance model when referring to him and how Prince should follow his lead. However, Trents been doing the same sound/thing his whole career. Even Madonna switches up the sound of her releases.

rdhull said:

Timmy84 said:

Your post loses value when you compare artists especially artists far apart from their sounds as Prince and Me'shell.

Exactly. Prince's musical palette is so mu h more than let me smoke your herb Im high as fuck sounding Meshell.

Everyone uses Meshell, NIN/Reznor etc as examples of people who have done things right with their one trick pony sound.

Im a fanatic of both but some orgers act like they dont know the purple basics even 25 years in.

Prince is Bowie yall....get with it.

Meshell's music is "one trick pony" ??? Her library of music is one of the most wide-ranging out there, from R&B to RAP to Jazz to Punk and everything else in between. The difference is Meshell works with amazing studio musicians and producers and TAKES THE TIME to craft exceptional music. There is no ego in her game. It's about the music. Prince's ego and greed unfortunately gets in the way of his natural and prolific talent.

thanks2joniandu said:

rdhull said:

Exactly. Prince's musical palette is so mu h more than let me smoke your herb Im high as fuck sounding Meshell.

Everyone uses Meshell, NIN/Reznor etc as examples of people who have done things right with their one trick pony sound.

Im a fanatic of both but some orgers act like they dont know the purple basics even 25 years in.

Prince is Bowie yall....get with it.

Meshell's music is "one trick pony" ??? Her library of music is one of the most wide-ranging out there, from R&B to RAP to Jazz to Punk and everything else in between. The difference is Meshell works with amazing studio musicians and producers and TAKES THE TIME to craft exceptional music. There is no ego in her game. It's about the music. Prince's ego and greed unfortunately gets in the way of his natural and prolific talent.

Please. Im well aware of her catalogue. 75% is that sleepy time production value. And it wasnt only until release number 70eleven that she decided to branch out, and even those productions were hushed sonically imo. And Im not even going to get into the meandering of song structure. As I said I am a fan of hers but she is not as diverse as Prince is in his every day releases. Im not falling for her so called radical departure to hail her as a goddess. And to say she has no ego? Riggggggghhhht. She is also just as mercurial as Prince, without the legendary career to back such behavior up.

And takes time to craft....some of that mish mash she does? LOL. Now were also going to talk about all the amazing studio musicans she works with (and of course they are all above par than the ones Prince works with right? and no I am not counting Allo-wishes). While I dont think Im coming off as a full on laurarichardsonesque as I stated that Im a big fan of Meshell and Trent, you're comin off real M/suomynona.

and whomever said she surpassed Prince in her mastery and skill is plain wrong and karate..I mean, karazy. Lets calm down here lol.

As I said ...Prince is Bowie in his radical change from album to album in his career.

.

[Edited 7/15/12 23:05pm]

Wildboy said:

While I don't think that Prince will have another hit album, Santana showed with Supernatural that an 'over the hill' act way past his prime can have a hit album if the right elements line up:

-Accessible, radio friends songs that appeal to young people

-Little or no talk about Jehova (this alienates a large portion of the audience, and as billy sparks put it, it's a "bunch of bullshit nobody wants to hear you play")

-A big marketing plan on par with a Mariah Carey Album. Interviews, commercials, etc

-A world tour that plays both the hits, and the album material

-Swearing

-Sexy, dirty songs

The last Prince song that did anything on the charts was Black Sweat. Is it a coincidence it was very modern sounding and the lyrics were about super hot, steamy sex? That's what people want to hear from Prince, modern music about dirty sex. Not the darth vader voice and bible verses

Santana didn't really have a hit album. The "hit" songs were written and sung by other people. Santana just played guitar. Kind of like saying Herb Alpert had a big comeback hit when Jam & Lewis wrote the songs, and Janet Jackson sang lead. Alpert having huge pull in the business back then didn't hurt. Prince has burned bridge after bridge in the industry, and unless he stoops so low as to have some rapper all over it with Auto Tune, you can forget hits. It won't happen.

stillwaiting said:

Santana didn't really have a hit album. The "hit" songs were written and sung by other people. Santana just played guitar. Kind of like saying Herb Alpert had a big comeback hit when Jam & Lewis wrote the songs, and Janet Jackson sang lead. Alpert having huge pull in the business back then didn't hurt. Prince has burned bridge after bridge in the industry, and unless he stoops so low as to have some rapper all over it with Auto Tune, you can forget hits. It won't happen.

I totally agree with you, Santana didn't really have those hits but Santana wasn't very talented to begin with. Santana was obviously famous due in a large part to his race as opposed to talent.

And while Prince has burned some bridges in the recording industry, that's nothing a money can't fix. Time and time again Prince has had problems with different record companies, but a couple years go by and everyone smells a little green to be made and you'll be surprised how easy grudges are forgotten.

There are bands who don't even speak to each other and perform live on stage. It's not about making friends. If the Price is right everyone gets on board.

No.

As many have said that he needs to make songs with lyrics that the common person can relate too.

Relationship songs were core on the early albums.

Just have some inspiration and create some great music, with videos that are also available via internet, and tour to support a new album.

But the key is radio play, without it you don't have a hit!! (sales wise)

Wildboy said:

stillwaiting said:

Santana didn't really have a hit album. The "hit" songs were written and sung by other people. Santana just played guitar. Kind of like saying Herb Alpert had a big comeback hit when Jam & Lewis wrote the songs, and Janet Jackson sang lead. Alpert having huge pull in the business back then didn't hurt. Prince has burned bridge after bridge in the industry, and unless he stoops so low as to have some rapper all over it with Auto Tune, you can forget hits. It won't happen.

I totally agree with you, Santana didn't really have those hits but Santana wasn't very talented to begin with. Santana was obviously famous due in a large part to his race as opposed to talent.

And while Prince has burned some bridges in the recording industry, that's nothing a money can't fix. Time and time again Prince has had problems with different record companies, but a couple years go by and everyone smells a little green to be made and you'll be surprised how easy grudges are forgotten.

There are bands who don't even speak to each other and perform live on stage. It's not about making friends. If the Price is right everyone gets on board.

Nobody smells green with Prince for studio material. They smell low selling music, and working with somebody who is difficult, and potential lawsuits. Now concert promoters, they still smell green.

stillwaiting said:

Nobody smells green with Prince for studio material. They smell low selling music, and working with somebody who is difficult, and potential lawsuits. Now concert promoters, they still smell green.

Really? Cause Target couldn't wait to get their hands on LotusFailur3. Before that 3121, before that Rave, and so on and so forth.

And while I do agree that Prince's sales figures are not even close to other huge power acts like Carey and Madonna, the entire industry is going through a really tough time due to file-sharing. Nobody is moving albums like they used to. That's why the big record companies are willing to get into bed with ANY established act. If they get even a wiff that money can be made, they'll bite. Also, prince is actually less of a risk in the long term as he doesn't require as big of a waiting period between the advance and the finished product.

The music industry has been turned upside down. Everyone is using thier CDs to promote their concerts, and the record companies are desperate for ANY form of revenue. Also, while Prince gets this reputation of being hard to work with, this can be said of a lot of big bands. Bottom line, Green is for the money and gold is for the honeys. If Prince got Madonna's marketing team/producers behind him, he could have a hit like her

Wildboy said:

stillwaiting said:

Nobody smells green with Prince for studio material. They smell low selling music, and working with somebody who is difficult, and potential lawsuits. Now concert promoters, they still smell green.

Really? Cause Target couldn't wait to get their hands on LotusFailur3. Before that 3121, before that Rave, and so on and so forth.

And while I do agree that Prince's sales figures are not even close to other huge power acts like Carey and Madonna, the entire industry is going through a really tough time due to file-sharing. Nobody is moving albums like they used to. That's why the big record companies are willing to get into bed with ANY established act. If they get even a wiff that money can be made, they'll bite. Also, prince is actually less of a risk in the long term as he doesn't require as big of a waiting period between the advance and the finished product.

The music industry has been turned upside down. Everyone is using thier CDs to promote their concerts, and the record companies are desperate for ANY form of revenue. Also, while Prince gets this reputation of being hard to work with, this can be said of a lot of big bands. Bottom line, Green is for the money and gold is for the honeys. If Prince got Madonna's marketing team/producers behind him, he could have a hit like her

If somebody told Target they would have over 100 of these at 99 cents, and in some stores 49 cents, Target would've passed on it. Since Prince gave up on promoting Lotus Flow3r about 2 weeks after it was released, Target was left with too much overstock. 3 years after its release, there are still over 40 at my local Target, but at 4.99, nobody is buying them.

This is especially sad for me, as the first disc is my favorite Prince album since Lovesexy, but I could argue Graffiti Bridge or Batman, but definietly my favorite in the last 20 years, so its failure is hard on me. There also was no huge outrage from any potential USA distributors about 20Ten not getting a USA release. If anybody smelled green with Prince, there would've been a deal here as well...either from a label or Rolling Stone, Captain Crunch, somebody...but nobody came calling.

I think a lot of us, and even myself included on an unclear day, have this warped idea that it can be 1984 again, and that Prince can hit the big time again. Look, in 2006, when older musicians were almost shut out of the industry, Black Sweat managed to hit #60. This may very well be Prince's final Hot 100 hit of his career.

Wildboy said:

JoeTyler said:

Musicology, 3121, LotusFlow3r AND 20Ten were all excellent B+ late career semi-classics

You cray cray.

The first half of 3121 could be a B+ as you can play it for people and they'll think Prince hasn't lost his mind. However to put Lotus and 20ten above anything other then an F is pure lunacy.

20ten is an embarrassment of an album. Put 'Everybody Loves Me' on for some people who aren't hardcore Prince fans and see how they react. And Lotusfailur3 with it's lame, Santana knock off musak style guitar playing and covers of other peoples work is just embarrassing. The father of one of my students is the new guitar player for CCR (the original having passed away). And he listened to Lotus and said "Wow, I've heard Prince play guitar a lot better then this. On a technical level, this is laughably bad"

The last passable tracks (not entire album, but just tracks that weren't terrible) were on Planet Earth. Everything since then has been self indulgent horse crap and EVERYONE OF US HERE KNOW IT

There's NOTHING on lotus or 20ten that can stand up to anything off 'diamonds and pearls'. Hell, there's nothing on 20ten or lotus that can even stand up to most of the songs on 'New Power Soul'

And if someone on the org makes the statement that they don't like Prince's new output, they are telling the truth, not being a pain in the ass. Maybe it's the people who think that the complete and utter embarrassment that is 20ten is a "B+" who are actually the pains in the ass.

Not to be picking a fight with you, because I'm not, but I'm a songwriter, and friends with a few musicians, and consider myself an ok judge on what is good music...and many of my most respected ears for music share my opinion that Prince is putting out pretty good material with Lotus, 3121, Planet Earth, and 20Ten.

Now nobody is saying that this is on par with 1999, Purple Rain, Parade, SOTT, etc...

But, I also notice that when I talk to serious musicians or very intelligent music fans:

1. High respect for most, not all of Prince's output since 2004 (And a small few of these people do not like his recent output, but most do.)

2. Almost no respect for his live act since 2006

3. Complete embarrassment with how the very talented Shelby is being used as a crowd flunkee

4. Amazed that he can go from Awesome to horrible back to awesome in one concert.

5. Sick of too many remakes.

When I talk to people who are just music fans in general, I notice this:

1. Some may like the newer albums, but most have not listened to them more than once. In fact, I can say they have only "heard" the recent albums. Not "listened." There is a difference.

2. These people worry more about what Hairstyle Prince has then they do about how good the musicians in Prince's band are.

3. These people are not stupid, in fact, some of them have just as good or a better time than people like me do.

4. Because Prince has a reputation of being perhaps the greatest live performer ever, some people still want to believe this, and even if Shelby shouts "Put Your Hands Up," over 100 times, they will swear they just saw the greatest show that ever was.

It is possible that I am just a "Music Snob." I try to be as honest as possible with my opinions here. I truly love nearly every single Prince album, but only love selected Prince tours. Still, even a bad Prince show is going to have an awesome moment, so I'll gladly spend whatever I can afford to go, even if most of the show is subpar. 20 minutes of awesome Prince is better than 3 hours of anybody else. On the Welcome 2 America Tour, I probably got close to an hour of very good to awesome Prince each night, and maybe an hour of going through the motions Prince. Still, a great time.

^ You sir, are losing credibility fast.

20Ten is great but his recent tours are bad? The W2____ tour is his best since converting to JWs. The set lists can be a little repetitive, but the live renditions of the Time songs and the track lists in general are just awesome. It's the perfect mix of obscure tracks and hits.

Who would have ever guessed that Prince would have played 'The Love We Make' as an opening track at this stage in his career? Just Fantastic.

As for these "Musicians" on this site who claim the appreciate princes new albums so much, I have yet to meet one in real life. Are you actually going to tell me you think "Everybody Loves Me" is anything but crap? All these self appointed musicians on this site (who don't actually get paid to play music) can blow it. The 2 people I know who are pro musicians CRINGED when I played 20ten and Lotus.

IMHO Lotus Flower would have been a fab single CD, O.K. it wouldn't change the world but it at least had some ballsy drums, some creativity, was consistent and [despite some xperts on here] I thought his guitar playing was excellent.

stillwaiting said:

thebanishedone said:

Prince don't have to pay anybody.many musicians would give their left nut to play with Prince.Prince is not older then members of U2. Prince could have a hit if he have a great song with good promotion. Nowdays there are some great songs on the charts.Somebody That I Used to know by Gotye is a good song actually,with indie like flavour.this song would never be a hit if it was released during last decades faux rnb hip hop lame beats era.but nowdays melody is back,synth pop is all about catchy melodies [Edited 7/11/12 16:31pm]

Prince was born in 1958. All the members of U2 were born in 1960 or 1961. So if you still think Prince isn't older than U2, then you really need to work on your Math.

Yes, you are right, Prince doesn't have to pay anybody anything. The fans who go to the show to worship Prince's hairstyle don't care who is in the band. They don't care that Andy Allo learned to play guitar at a truck stop in 2010.

Prince always talks about being a serious musician...

A serious musician like Miles Davis paid decent money to World Class musicians to have a world class band.

Prince is probably more talented than Miles was, but Prince worries too much about his clothes and his hair to take his craft as serious as he should.

Prince always says "Real Music by Real Musicians," and then sings Karaoke over samples of his own songs. No other serious musician does this. This is lame ass bullshit.

Gotye is 31, and is damn lucky to have a hit at that age. It is impossible for Prince at this point.

On the Karaoke, thats only a small portion of a concert, you sound like he does the whole concert this way.