Hi,

I was just listening to Exodus the other day and was wondering why Prince didn't put this album out under his own name. Some of the songs on it are really funky.

it was because of his dispute with warners at the time

^ Yes, Prince was "at war" with Warner Bros...

For the Exodus album Prince named himself Tora Tora, which is a japanese war cry from the world war 2.

If I am not mistaken, Tora Tora, means "atack atack"!!

.

[Edited 7/14/12 11:16am]

thedance said:

^ Yes, Prince was "at war" with Warner Bros...

For the Exodus album Prince named himself Tora Tora, which is a japanese war cry from the world war 2.

If I am not mistaken, Tora Tora, means "atack atack"!!

.

[Edited 7/14/12 11:16am]

Yes, the "war with Warner" was also the reason for the whole "symbol" thing. He was legally unable to release anything outside of Warner under the "Prince" name until all contracts expired in 1999. For reference, see the whole Erik Sermon/Erik Onassis deal from Dreamworks Records.

"Exodus" was funky, though.

He may have been "at war" with them, but on the album (if u look closely), it states that appears coutesy Warner Brothers Records.

the exodus has begun! one of the funkiest prince tracks ever.

and i agree with everyone about the dispute with warner.

He always releases albums under the guise of other bands or artists... like all The Time albums or Vanity 6, Madhouse.... etc , etc

Even if things were peachy keen with Warners.

unique said:

it was because of his dispute with warners at the time

It may also have something to do with the fact that Sonny T. was the lead vocalist?

Gold Nigga was intended to be released by Warner but they declined, so it's more about the NPG being Prince's "negro" project, just like The Time before them, putting the emphasis on a more R&B side of P's music.

databank said:

unique said:

it was because of his dispute with warners at the time

It may also have something to do with the fact that Sonny T. was the lead vocalist?

Gold Nigga was intended to be released by Warner but they declined, so it's more about the NPG being Prince's "negro" project, just like The Time before them, putting the emphasis on a more R&B side of P's music.

sonnys lead vox were there because of the dispute with warners, so it wasn't a "Prince" album

I think everyone's right!

It was definately promoted that way that Prince's involvement was clandestine because of the dispute with WB, but if that hadn't been the case, I've always assumed it would still be an NPG album, not a Prince album - in that sense it would've been more like NPS than Goldnigga - which is definately built around Tony M, who is not just a stand in for Prince.

Prince went on about his talent as a bassplayer at the time, but I don't think Prince found Sonny to be a muse for the project - like say, Tony M or Morris Day etc, he was just the most suitable band member for the job. That's what I think any way.

The NPG albums are all pretty standalone really, there's no continuity in band lineup and frontperson, it's a much looser, disconnected string of projects - not like the Time, even if the albums served a somewhat similar purpose (like databank mentions above).

A lot of the supposed results of the dispute like saying the album was an NPG album because of a fight with Warners doesn't hold water to me. Prince was just finding an angle to market it.

That would be like saying the more minimal funk R&B oriented The Time albums were because of record label dispute. Those also had Prince's voice here and there, and often he was just replacing his lead vocal.

And the conflict with The Time was hype too.

databank said:

Gold Nigga was intended to be released by Warner but they declined, so it's more about the NPG being Prince's "negro" project,

OMD, you just made me spit! Princes 'negro' project lmao! Yeah I know he had The Time etc etc but that phrase is comedy!

Im going to start calling all those things part of the 'negro project' lol

ufoclub said:

A lot of the supposed results of the dispute like saying the album was an NPG album because of a fight with Warners doesn't hold water to me. Prince was just finding an angle to market it.

At one point WB and almost came to an agreement to release The Gold Exp, Exodus and Mayte's album as a sort of cease fire agreement but the War was public and it just did not happen. WB scrubbed the release date.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

ufoclub said:

A lot of the supposed results of the dispute like saying the album was an NPG album because of a fight with Warners doesn't hold water to me. Prince was just finding an angle to market it.

At one point WB and almost came to an agreement to release The Gold Exp, Exodus and Mayte's album as a sort of cease fire agreement but the War was public and it just did not happen. WB scrubbed the release date.

But they all did get released through Warners. The only ones that didn't from that time period (mid 90's) were The Undertaker and the single "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World", right?

ufoclub said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

At one point WB and almost came to an agreement to release The Gold Exp, Exodus and Mayte's album as a sort of cease fire agreement but the War was public and it just did not happen. WB scrubbed the release date.

But they all did get released through Warners. The only ones that didn't from that time period (mid 90's) were The Undertaker and the single "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World", right?

NPG.

here is a ton of great info on Exodus:

http://prince.org/msg/5/319042

SuperFurryAnimal said:

ufoclub said:

But they all did get released through Warners. The only ones that didn't from that time period (mid 90's) were The Undertaker and the single "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World", right?

NPG.

here is a ton of great info on Exodus:

http://prince.org/msg/5/319042

I've seen all that info, but what do you mean NPG?

I bought the "Exodus" album on CD back in 1994-95, as well as "Goldnigga" and "Come". And of course a bit later "Gold Experience". I don't think Warners actually held anything back except for one thing: The Undertaker.

Prince liked to hype up conflict with the label to seem cool, but the reality was a not as bad as he made it seem... me thinks. Certainly he did want out of his contract, but possibly more for financial reasons rather than creative reasons.

Prince released Gold Nigga, Exodus and Child Of The Sun independently. The first was sold at concerts and by correspondance only, and the other 2 were distributed in Europe only by Edel Records. WB had nothing to do with these releases.

Originally Prince offered Gold Nigga to WB but after the Carmen Electra fiasco WB had little interest in more side-projects and they declined to release it (they would soon shut Paisley Park down) and Prince got really mad about this and released it by himself, creating NPG Records in the process.

Exodus was later released in Europe without WB being involved but Prince enventually negotiated that they'd release it in the USA in exchange for him quitting bashing them in public. Prince kept bashing, WB never released Exodus in retaliation. I'm not sure if there was any talk with WB regarding Child Of The Sun, but I remember it only got a very confidential release in Europe in late 95.

databank said:

Prince released Gold Nigga, Exodus and Child Of The Sun independently. The first was sold at concerts and by correspondance only, and the other 2 were distributed in Europe only by Edel Records. WB had nothing to do with these releases.

Originally Prince offered Gold Nigga to WB but after the Carmen Electra fiasco WB had little interest in more side-projects and they declined to release it (they would soon shut Paisley Park down) and Prince got really mad about this and released it by himself, creating NPG Records in the process.

Exodus was later released in Europe without WB being involved but Prince enventually negotiated that they'd release it in the USA in exchange for him quitting bashing them in public. Prince kept bashing, WB never released Exodus in retaliation. I'm not sure if there was any talk with WB regarding Child Of The Sun, but I remember it only got a very confidential release in Europe in late 95.

ah, I thought those all were released under Warner's umbrella, which is why I was questioning this dispute scenario. I stand corrected.

databank said:

Prince released Gold Nigga, Exodus and Child Of The Sun independently. The first was sold at concerts and by correspondance only, and the other 2 were distributed in Europe only by Edel Records. WB had nothing to do with these releases.

Originally Prince offered Gold Nigga to WB but after the Carmen Electra fiasco WB had little interest in more side-projects and they declined to release it (they would soon shut Paisley Park down) and Prince got really mad about this and released it by himself, creating NPG Records in the process.

Exodus was later released in Europe without WB being involved but Prince enventually negotiated that they'd release it in the USA in exchange for him quitting bashing them in public. Prince kept bashing, WB never released Exodus in retaliation. I'm not sure if there was any talk with WB regarding Child Of The Sun, but I remember it only got a very confidential release in Europe in late 95.

Yes, but in the end Prince still recorded the Gold Experience under the symbol and NPG name for WB.

WB did in effect go along with it all tho and settled it.

[Edited 7/17/12 11:06am]

I don't understand your point: Prince had to deliver a certain number of albums under his own name (or the symbol, but not side-projects sung by Sonny T. and Mayte) in order to escape his contract. TGE was one of these albums. Nothing was settled at all, and Prince got away from WB as soon as he could.

I can see why comparing Exodus with The Time records is relevant, but I don't think Prince was allowed to appear on the album as the lead vocalist. One of the biggest complaints from WB at the time was that Prince was putting out too much music and over-saturating the market. So he put out all kinds of side projects that were not in direct competition with the WB album releases. I find it hard to believe that they could have held him back as a songwriter or as a producer.

Not that I'd have any insider knowledge of what he was allowed to do and not allowed to do exactly. It's just what I could gather from the various articles and interviews at the time.

I think that for the most part, Prince always created so many side-projects precisely because the market, as it was in the 80's, wouldn't allow him to release more than an album a year under his own name. There are other reasons such as playing characters (writing for a girl or an arrogant macho Morris Day for example), and there was also that whole concept of giving the impression that Prince was part of a musical movment that was bigger than him, but anyway he wouldn't have been allowed to release 3 or 4 albums a year as Prince at ANY point in his career as a WB artist.

Honestly, maybe I'm trippin' but I don't see the album as it is with Prince as a lead vocalist: it just wouldn't sound right, and anyway it is a documented fact that he composed most of the songs with Sonny playing the main character's role in mind, so I don't see why we have to bring the conflict with WB here.

The whole idea of Exodus started as The Crayons (later renamed MPLS or Minneapolis), then it slowly morphed into a second NPG album, with Sonny T. remaining pivotal in his role as a vocalist in both projects. The Crayons is a project that was started BEFORE the feud with WB had even started, as was the concept of a NPG solo album with Gold Nigga. So 2 projects eventually became one, and Prince certainly USED Exodus as a propaganda tool in his feud with WB, and the same feud probably influened the album's content at its conception's later stages as well, but by no means did it ever CAUSE it. I actually tend to think that the feud made Prince appear more obviously in the album and its promostion, instead of hiding himself as much as he did on earlier side-projects, and that without that feud, the songs would contain even less of Prince's vocals

For more informations, read Scififilmnerd's admirable threads about this era.

I forgot all about the Crayons. I guess Sonny was a bigger deal as a frontman than I thought.

databank said:

I don't understand your point: Prince had to deliver a certain number of albums under his own name (or the symbol, but not side-projects sung by Sonny T. and Mayte) in order to escape his contract. TGE was one of these albums. Nothing was settled at all, and Prince got away from WB as soon as he could.

For sure there was a settlement.

Prince was supposed to deliver at least 6 albums under the name "Prince" exclusively to WB. But WB did not want that to happen as fast as he wanted and also not the way he wanted it. They paid him huge advances and wanted to excercise more control over his releases as well as take more time to promote an album than before, in order to maximise sales. But Prince wanted to be "free" aka have more control on whatever he wanted to do. From what is known, he didn't have permission - at first, to go out there and release albums under a new name, let alone a symbol as a name. Let alone declaring Prince "dead" and "the artist" a "slave"while blackballing WB wherever he could. The pseudonyms and new labels he used were genious, but those other actions were brutal. P really was at war. And in the end they went along with fullfilling the contract faster than they intended at first, and letting him go. Even if they were legally right, they didn't really have a choice, except than to lose out even more on sales and reputation.

In the first months of 1996, a termination agreement had been worked out that would allow Prince to leave the label after delivering two more albums instead of the three that he still owed them at that time. Prince also agreed to a reduction of his advances on royalties. Allegedly, Russ Thuret, one of the few remaining execs who had been with WB back when Prince first signed with them had been instrumental in getting Prince out of the deal.

The termination agreement was signed on April 26, 1996, at a meeting where Prince handed Warner Bros. Chaos And Disorder and The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale, and told them these were the last they should expect from him.

http://prince.org/wiki/1992_Contract

[Edited 7/18/12 13:43pm]

ufoclub said:

databank said:

Prince released Gold Nigga, Exodus and Child Of The Sun independently. The first was sold at concerts and by correspondance only, and the other 2 were distributed in Europe only by Edel Records. WB had nothing to do with these releases.

Originally Prince offered Gold Nigga to WB but after the Carmen Electra fiasco WB had little interest in more side-projects and they declined to release it (they would soon shut Paisley Park down) and Prince got really mad about this and released it by himself, creating NPG Records in the process.

Exodus was later released in Europe without WB being involved but Prince enventually negotiated that they'd release it in the USA in exchange for him quitting bashing them in public. Prince kept bashing, WB never released Exodus in retaliation. I'm not sure if there was any talk with WB regarding Child Of The Sun, but I remember it only got a very confidential release in Europe in late 95.

ah, I thought those all were released under Warner's umbrella, which is why I was questioning this dispute scenario. I stand corrected.

databank is correct, of course.

Warners DID release a single for "The Good Life" in the States, CD Maxi single and all, it was the first single from the supposed to be U.S. release of "Exodus" but, as db mentioned Prince didn't play nice and the album release was cancelled.

ufoclub said:

databank said:

Prince released Gold Nigga, Exodus and Child Of The Sun independently. The first was sold at concerts and by correspondance only, and the other 2 were distributed in Europe only by Edel Records. WB had nothing to do with these releases.

Originally Prince offered Gold Nigga to WB but after the Carmen Electra fiasco WB had little interest in more side-projects and they declined to release it (they would soon shut Paisley Park down) and Prince got really mad about this and released it by himself, creating NPG Records in the process.

Exodus was later released in Europe without WB being involved but Prince enventually negotiated that they'd release it in the USA in exchange for him quitting bashing them in public. Prince kept bashing, WB never released Exodus in retaliation. I'm not sure if there was any talk with WB regarding Child Of The Sun, but I remember it only got a very confidential release in Europe in late 95.

ah, I thought those all were released under Warner's umbrella, which is why I was questioning this dispute scenario. I stand corrected.

The record company that released The Exodus in Germany ( and the rest of Europe ) was Edel Records....a rather small and not that prestigeous record label that has somewhat of a dubious reputation but ....Exodus was easily available over here , and that´s what matters. I think in the USA the album was released, albeit much later, under the WB umbrella.

KoolEaze said:

ufoclub said:

ah, I thought those all were released under Warner's umbrella, which is why I was questioning this dispute scenario. I stand corrected.

The record company that released The Exodus in Germany ( and the rest of Europe ) was Edel Records....a rather small and not that prestigeous record label that has somewhat of a dubious reputation but ....Exodus was easily available over here , and that´s what matters. I think in the USA the album was released, albeit much later, under the WB umbrella.

My CD's of Goldnigga and Exodus were bought in London back in the days of the NPG store by a friend that visited there. I'll have to check them to see wha tthey say. My version of GoldNigga has the Guess who's Knockin track.

ufoclub said:

KoolEaze said:

The record company that released The Exodus in Germany ( and the rest of Europe ) was Edel Records....a rather small and not that prestigeous record label that has somewhat of a dubious reputation but ....Exodus was easily available over here , and that´s what matters. I think in the USA the album was released, albeit much later, under the WB umbrella.

My CD's of Goldnigga and Exodus were bought in London back in the days of the NPG store by a friend that visited there. I'll have to check them to see wha tthey say. My version of GoldNigga has the Guess who's Knockin track.

It was never release in the States as far as I know. I got my copies special order/import through Goldmine mag.

databank said:

I don't understand your point: Prince had to deliver a certain number of albums under his own name (or the symbol, but not side-projects sung by Sonny T. and Mayte) in order to escape his contract. TGE was one of these albums. Nothing was settled at all, and Prince got away from WB as soon as he could.

Right. the problems were real, not marketing ploys, he wanted out. I think though at one point WB tried to play the we don't have any beef with Prince hoping things would settle but from what I hear Prince had problems as far back as 1987 with them. It was a bad time for everyone, Rambo. It's all in the past now.

MikeA said:

ufoclub said:

ah, I thought those all were released under Warner's umbrella, which is why I was questioning this dispute scenario. I stand corrected.

databank is correct, of course.

Warners DID release a single for "The Good Life" in the States, CD Maxi single and all, it was the first single from the supposed to be U.S. release of "Exodus" but, as db mentioned Prince didn't play nice and the album release was cancelled.

Oh I had totally forgotten about this single, thanks for the reminding