I bought The Rainbow Children CD back in 2001. There's a sticker on it saying "Prince - The Rainbow Children" and then in small print "The controversial new album". Now, I don't usually take much notice of the silly stickers the record company/distributors slap on. They'll often say something like "The Hit New Album" before a single copy has been sold. So I didn't read the small print until yesterday. I'm guess the "controversy" is probably a record company beat up and most likely refers to the religious content of the album.

But, Orgers, am I missing something? I wasn't really up on the all the Prince gossip around the time the album was released. Was there some other controversy regarding TRC?

SDNafka said:

I bought The Rainbow Children CD back in 2001. There's a sticker on it saying "Prince - The Rainbow Children" and then in small print "The controversial new album". Now, I don't usually take much notice of the silly stickers the record company/distributors slap on. They'll often say something like "The Hit New Album" before a single copy has been sold. So I didn't read the small print until yesterday. I'm guess the "controversy" is probably a record company beat up and most likely refers to the religious content of the album.

But, Orgers, am I missing something? I wasn't really up on the all the Prince gossip around the time the album was released. Was there some other controversy regarding TRC?

No controversy, just some pre-release hype. Sure, some might suggest that the fact that a once "nasty" artist made an album with a lot of religious imagery using a very non-mainstream religion that gets made fun of...I could write more, but this topic was run into the ground on this site back when it was released. I've been visting some form of this site since 1997, so this topic got kinda old...

And one last point, by 2001, Prince wasn't going to really sell all that well, so it would take more than this album to really create a controversy.

Thanks for the info.

Can I just say. I've been coming here (on and off) since 2003 under this handle and a couple of years before that under another one. I see topics come up every day that I've seen covered before. Can we drop the tedious "yawn, I've seen it all before" posts, please. There are at least seven new topics I could say that about in the list right now. If you've seen it before and you're bored with it, don't respond. There would be very little activity on this site of only entirely novel subjects could be discussed. The truth is most of the questions people ask here could be googled for an answer...but people like to communicate.....reach out to their fellow men and women....even those old time super geniuses who've seen it all before. Its a F-O-R-U-M for D-I-S-C-U-S-S-I-O-N. If the topic bores you don't f***ing click on it.

FFS!

SDNafka said:

Thanks for the info.

Can I just say. I've been coming here (on and off) since 2003 under this handle and a couple of years before that under another one. I see topics come up every day that I've seen covered before. Can we drop the tedious "yawn, I've seen it all before" posts, please. There are at least seven new topics I could say that about in the list right now. If you've seen it before and you're bored with it, don't respond. There would be very little activity on this site of only entirely novel subjects could be discussed. The truth is most of the questions people ask here could be googled for an answer...but people like to communicate.....reach out to their fellow men and women....even those old time super geniuses who've seen it all before. Its a F-O-R-U-M for D-I-S-C-U-S-S-I-O-N. If the topic bores you don't f***ing click on it.

FFS!

AMEN.

I'm a brand new orger and I'd like to say thanks to those who have discussed so many topics over and over and are still willing to share their knowledge!

(added "new orger")

A lot of people took offense to the Family Name song. While others tried to mask it by calling it a "trite" song lyrically. Same ordeal happened with Avalanche(from ONA) and Dreamer(From Lotus).

This is just one example, there're many other elements in the album that some of the fans found unsettling, like Muse 2 The Pharaoh for instance.

I love it whenever this album gets discussed(and it gets discussed a lot), it always generate an interesting debate depending on who usually post at the time. And anyway, thats what music supposed to do IMO, encourage dialogue.

Religion has always been a touchy topic 4 any artist 2 delve in2. Prince has always known that since they asked him 2 change the lyrics in "Let's Go Crazy". Which he did. From devil 2 Elevator....

SDNafka said:

I bought The Rainbow Children CD back in 2001. There's a sticker on it saying "Prince - The Rainbow Children" and then in small print "The controversial new album". Now, I don't usually take much notice of the silly stickers the record company/distributors slap on. They'll often say something like "The Hit New Album" before a single copy has been sold. So I didn't read the small print until yesterday. I'm guess the "controversy" is probably a record company beat up and most likely refers to the religious content of the album.

But, Orgers, am I missing something? I wasn't really up on the all the Prince gossip around the time the album was released. Was there some other controversy regarding TRC?

Well, the tone and comments in the album are:

* not exactly condusive to women's lib (1+1+1=3...ain't no room to disagree, if U wanna get with me....)

* not exactly jew friend.. (Goldstieeeeeeennn....etc.)

* boring, boring, boring...

I just will never get why people think this album is a work of genius.

It's a brilliant album instrumentally. And had he just shut up and let it be instrumental, fine. But he layers it with silly narration, and it bores the shit out of the audience from there.

The sticker was an attempt to drum up some interest in an otherwise boring album, me thinks.

SDNafka said:

Thanks for the info.

Can I just say. I've been coming here (on and off) since 2003 under this handle and a couple of years before that under another one. I see topics come up every day that I've seen covered before. Can we drop the tedious "yawn, I've seen it all before" posts, please. There are at least seven new topics I could say that about in the list right now. If you've seen it before and you're bored with it, don't respond. There would be very little activity on this site of only entirely novel subjects could be discussed. The truth is most of the questions people ask here could be googled for an answer...but people like to communicate.....reach out to their fellow men and women....even those old time super geniuses who've seen it all before. Its a F-O-R-U-M for D-I-S-C-U-S-S-I-O-N. If the topic bores you don't f***ing click on it.

FFS!

It is true that the repetition can be tiring, but you are 100% right.

The obvious simple solution to being annoyed by repetition is to ignore it, espicially when the thread description is as accurate as yours is.

You kidding right?

It remains his most controversial album even if it's an album that the populace does not even know of it's existence. It's the album that wrecked, split, destroyed the online Prince community. It created the factions we have today. You know how star wars had the clone wars?...well in the purple universe, there was The Rainbow Children wars.

Im...not....kidding

rdhull said:

You kidding right?

It remains his most controversial album even if it's an album that the populace does not even know of it's existence. It's the album that wrecked, split, destroyed the online Prince community. It created the factions we have today. You know how star wars had the clone wars?...well in the purple universe, there was The Rainbow Children wars.

Im...not....kidding

You're actually so correct about this!

No other album before did that...or even afterwars..I have never heard such opposition from. PERSONALLY I LOVE IT! Haha

thebanishedone said:

Depends what is Contraversal for you.If you compare it to his previous release it is .but what matters is this album is maybe his best album in terms of sonic textures and every song is great .People hate Wedding Feast yet it's cool little rock opera meant to be a joke to lighten up the album.Last 3 songs are crazy good and the Last December song kicks the shit out of Purple Rain

You should be banished for this!

Oh, wait...

I think it's one of his best albums.

Music does not need to lyrically represent my beliefs at all; in my opinion it's absolutely ridiculous to discuss whether an artist's "opinion" is right or wrong, because, just like a book author who writes a book, the words they sing/write don't actually come from them, but from the role of the narrator/singer, which is a significant different. Furthermore, by discussing whether a lyrical "opinion" is right or wrong (good or bad), I am only discussing the credibility of this singer, not the music.

I can have an album full of women-bashing, men-bashing, jew-bashing, Dave-bashing lyrics, as long as they sound inspired, creative and as long as the music is cool and everything just sounds "convincing" (even if just for the moments I'm listening to it). And The Rainbow Children definitely does that to me.

SDNafka said:

Thanks for the info.

Can I just say. I've been coming here (on and off) since 2003 under this handle and a couple of years before that under another one. I see topics come up every day that I've seen covered before. Can we drop the tedious "yawn, I've seen it all before" posts, please. There are at least seven new topics I could say that about in the list right now. If you've seen it before and you're bored with it, don't respond. There would be very little activity on this site of only entirely novel subjects could be discussed. The truth is most of the questions people ask here could be googled for an answer...but people like to communicate.....reach out to their fellow men and women....even those old time super geniuses who've seen it all before. Its a F-O-R-U-M for D-I-S-C-U-S-S-I-O-N. If the topic bores you don't f***ing click on it.

FFS!

Well, you thank me, and then lump me in with the old timers who actually make too big a deal about old info, and piss on people.

I answered your question. The answer was no. Nobody marched on the one or two stores that actually sold it. If you read the lyrics, you can pretty much assume the type of responses that were here. If it was a true controversy, there would've been huge media coverage of thousands of people burning the cd. It didn't happen. Nobody cared. I loved the album, but not enough did to make it sell or get played on the radio.

I may be an expert of sorts here, but I am a member of other sites where I don't know as much, and I usually get a link thrown at me or get told to piss off.

Now if your opinion of a true controversy is that a few people on this site or other Prince sites argued about the Darth Vader voice or the religious overtones, then fine, there's your controversy. Family Name did get some discussion, but largely, the album was ignored by society and the mainstream media. If it were the follow up to Purple Rain, there would've been a huge controversy.

As far as you can google the info, yes you can, and most of the time it takes you to a link on this site.

rdhull said:

You kidding right?

It remains his most controversial album even if it's an album that the populace does not even know of it's existence. It's the album that wrecked, split, destroyed the online Prince community. It created the factions we have today. You know how star wars had the clone wars?...well in the purple universe, there was The Rainbow Children wars.

Im...not....kidding

All I can remember is TRC was the first and only Prince album out of the 20+ at the time, that totally made me go...

[img:$uid]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/SexyBeautifulOne/Prince%20Gifs/tumblr_lzryt4x1Cn1qcvaxho4_250.gif[/img:$uid]

Causing severe trauma to my purple paisley psyche, that I still haven't completey recovered from because that had NEVER, EVER happened before. It has happened again since which I guess hasn't helped in the healing process but oh well, at least I'm still around, right?

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Religion has always been a touchy topic 4 any artist 2 delve in2. Prince has always known that since they asked him 2 change the lyrics in "Let's Go Crazy". Which he did. From devil 2 Elevator....

Really? I doubt that would have happened.

For one it was 84, not 54, and I think "masturbating" would have been more controversial than devil.

rdhull said:

You kidding right?

It remains his most controversial album even if it's an album that the populace does not even know of it's existence. It's the album that wrecked, split, destroyed the online Prince community. It created the factions we have today. You know how star wars had the clone wars?...well in the purple universe, there was The Rainbow Children wars.

Im...not....kidding

90% of the people on the site gave their opinion, and moved on, and 10% battled back and forth against Prince's religion and viewpoints. Meaningless, no controversy. When less than 100 people on a fan site are seriously arguing, it does not split the fanbase. The tour was successful, Prince's popularity was coming down, and he had discussions with fan club members at "Soundchecks," that were awesome in that you got to talk to Prince, but you can listen to these on bootleg, and see there was no real controversy. If TRC was that big a deal, the arguments would've been on tape to hear in those discussions. Nobody got in fist fights, nobody got kicked out, etc.

As far as the online community being destroyed? That's a good one. Never happened.

I agree with Harlepolis. I think many fans interpreted the lyrics to what they wanted to hear, instead of trying to understand the point of the message in the lyrics. Anytime, a musician/artist sing about anything historical/socio-political/racial, etc., it's no surprise fans will question the lyrics, find some type of controversy about it. But many musicians/artists of the mid to early 70s, sang socio-political songs that touched on the racial and socio-political atmosphere at the time in the U.S. and as those issues related around the world.

Curtis Mayfield, The Temptations, Sonia Baez, Richie Havens, Earth, ames Brown, Wind & Fire, Gil Scott Heron, just to name a few, who often sang about race, socio-political and economic situations, that were going on at the time, from drugs, racial injustices, socio-economic and political issues, to singing about the Vietnam War, etc..

I think what caught a lot of Prince fans off guard, is that to most fans, Prince is a musician that crossed racial lines with his music, and brought a lot of fans from various, racial groups together through his music, in one space. At the same time, some of his songs, from early on, touched on topics. such as race/gender/war/religion/socio-political and economic issues, , etc., and he never really shyed away from that. But the Rainbow Children album was heavy on historical racial issues and religion, and many fans didn't know how to embrace that album.

He dared to discuss what many are afraid to talk about or acknowledge regarding the historical, racial issues that has happened between specific groups, that is still a very, touchy, uncomfortable topic today No question, many of us have seen these topics discussed in P&R many times in heated debates, because not too many want to listen, acknowledge or read about those ugly, historical and some current truths about racism, and many disagree on topics regarding religion. So both topics are very uncomfortable to discuss, and many take both topics personally.

The question is, were some fans uncomfortable because he made comparisons between the Jewish Holocaust vs Transatlantic Slave Trade, and some fans interpreted the line "Jewish Holocaust aside" , in the song, as the artist trying to devalue that tragedy? When I listened to the song 'Family Name', I didn't see it that he meant it that way at all, and I'm only speaking for myself.

It seems to me, he was bringing attention to the fact that the Transatlantic Slave Trade (TSA) was a holocaust, and that has never really been acknowledged or given the same respect, on a national or international basis, like the Jewish Holocaust has been, and I believe that was the awareness he was trying to raise, in specific songs on that album. He injected bits and pieces of historical events of the TSA, to raise awareness to the listene,r as to how could it not have been a holocaust, but yet to many in this countr,y and the rest of the world, the Jewish Holocaust is acknowledged as a 'holocaust', while the TSA tragedy, is not acknowledged as such or on that same level, for that matter, and that is where the comparisons are being made in Prince's song, 'Family Name'. .

When he references Jewish names and states "'...at least you have your family name", well there is truth to that, although I have heard that many Jewish people were forced at one time or another to change their surnames, as a matter of survival, and due to discrimination. But I believe the point in the song about their names, was at least many were still able to trace the history of their famlly name, and had a 'home' so-to-speak, they could trace it to. With many enslaved Africans during the Transatlantic Slave Trade, (I'm just referencing the enslaved Africans brought to what is known today as America, although many enslaved Africans, taken to different places around the world, experienced similar, tragic experiences), many had no choice, as they were forced to let go of their birth names, history and culture, once enslaved by their owners, and were given names was bought/sold/traded, by their owners, and later on given surnames of their owners.

Remember now, they came from many African ethnic groups with different languages, cultures, religious beliefs, when they were bought/sold/traded to various owners, and some more name changes took place during the process, many times, when they were sold to new owners. Many never made it back to their homelands, and died with the surnames given to them by their slave owners.

The offspring of the enslaved Africans, born on what is known today as America, who were born on American soil, adopted those surnames as well, because they had no choice, given the historical circumstances. The children/descendants of native-born Africans, thereafter, passed those surnames to every generation of those who identify as Black American today. If those surnames are traced today, it would mainly lead to a European or European American who may not even have any family relation to Black Americans, this is of course,is if the slaveowner of their African ancestors, didn't produce any children from any of his enslaved, African females. The surnames of the majority of enslaved Africans are not of 'Black African ethnic origins. So I get Prince's point in the lyrics of 'Family Name', because he's only telling an uncomfortable truth, and truth be told, uncomfortable truths will ruffle feathers and make some uneasy and nervous. But honestly, when doesn't these types of discussions on racial, historical matters don't make some uncomfortable?

So I don't think it was not an intention on Prince's part, to divide his fans, moreso than it was about educating them regarding the comparisons of those two tragic events, and raising awareness that many within American society and around the world do not acknowledge or give the same respect to the history, victims/outcome of the Transatlantic Slave Trade tragedy, as they give to the history and victims/survivors of the Jewish Holocaust. An uncomfortable truth? Yes, of course.

Harlepolis said:

A lot of people took offense to the Family Name song. While others tried to mask it by calling it a "trite" song lyrically. Same ordeal happened with Avalanche(from ONA) and Dreamer(From Lotus).

This is just one example, there're many other elements in the album that some of the fans found unsettling, like Muse 2 The Pharaoh for instance.

I love it whenever this album gets discussed(and it gets discussed a lot), it always generate an interesting debate depending on who usually post at the time. And anyway, thats what music supposed to do IMO, encourage dialogue.

I agree, this album does create diaglogue filled with interesting debates. Some like the Rainbow Children for its instrumentation and others like it for the boldness of the lyrics which and the subject the song touches on. I was a little taken aback by the 'deep voice' narrator technique, he injected into it, but other than that, an interesting album to say the least.

stillwaiting said:

rdhull said:

You kidding right?

It remains his most controversial album even if it's an album that the populace does not even know of it's existence. It's the album that wrecked, split, destroyed the online Prince community. It created the factions we have today. You know how star wars had the clone wars?...well in the purple universe, there was The Rainbow Children wars.

Im...not....kidding

90% of the people on the site gave their opinion, and moved on, and 10% battled back and forth against Prince's religion and viewpoints. Meaningless, no controversy. When less than 100 people on a fan site are seriously arguing, it does not split the fanbase. The tour was successful, Prince's popularity was coming down, and he had discussions with fan club members at "Soundchecks," that were awesome in that you got to talk to Prince, but you can listen to these on bootleg, and see there was no real controversy. If TRC was that big a deal, the arguments would've been on tape to hear in those discussions. Nobody got in fist fights, nobody got kicked out, etc.

As far as the online community being destroyed? That's a good one. Never happened.

Even though these things happened, it is still true. Dont be a history revisionist. Especially ONLINE as I mentioned. I didnt even mention the Kevin Smith reaction, the paisley Parkers pre release reactions etc.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

rdhull said:

You kidding right?

It remains his most controversial album even if it's an album that the populace does not even know of it's existence. It's the album that wrecked, split, destroyed the online Prince community. It created the factions we have today. You know how star wars had the clone wars?...well in the purple universe, there was The Rainbow Children wars.

Im...not....kidding

All I can remember is TRC was the first and only Prince album out of the 20+ at the time, that totally made me go...

[img:$uid]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/SexyBeautifulOne/Prince%20Gifs/tumblr_lzryt4x1Cn1qcvaxho4_250.gif[/img:$uid]

Causing severe trauma to my purple paisley psyche, that I still haven't completey recovered from because that had NEVER, EVER happened before. It has happened again since which I guess hasn't helped in the healing process but oh well, at least I'm still around, right?

Sounds more like a DSM-IV disorder.

Is this album where he says "What the duck?" cause, That's conroversial

WaterInYourBath said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

All I can remember is TRC was the first and only Prince album out of the 20+ at the time, that totally made me go...

[img:$uid]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/SexyBeautifulOne/Prince%20Gifs/tumblr_lzryt4x1Cn1qcvaxho4_250.gif[/img:$uid]

Causing severe trauma to my purple paisley psyche, that I still haven't completey recovered from because that had NEVER, EVER happened before. It has happened again since which I guess hasn't helped in the healing process but oh well, at least I'm still around, right?

Sounds more like a DSM-IV disorder.

Maybe but you know how I got it!

[img:$uid]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/SexyBeautifulOne/Prince%20Gifs/tumblr_m105o9hXzo1qcvaxho5_250.gif[/img:$uid]

Dave1992 said:

I think it's one of his best albums.

Music does not need to lyrically represent my beliefs at all; in my opinion it's absolutely ridiculous to discuss whether an artist's "opinion" is right or wrong, because, just like a book author who writes a book, the words they sing/write don't actually come from them, but from the role of the narrator/singer, which is a significant different. Furthermore, by discussing whether a lyrical "opinion" is right or wrong (good or bad), I am only discussing the credibility of this singer, not the music.

I can have an album full of women-bashing, men-bashing, jew-bashing, Dave-bashing lyrics, as long as they sound inspired, creative and as long as the music is cool and everything just sounds "convincing" (even if just for the moments I'm listening to it). And The Rainbow Children definitely does that to me.

CO-SIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2elijah said:

I agree with Harlepolis. I think many fans interpreted the lyrics to what they wanted to hear, instead of trying to understand the point of the message in the lyrics. Anytime, a musician/artist sing about anything historical/socio-political/racial, etc., it's no surprise fans will question the lyrics, find some type of controversy about it. But many musicians/artists of the mid to early 70s, sang socio-political songs that touched on the racial and socio-political atmosphere at the time in the U.S. and as those issues related around the world.

Curtis Mayfield, The Temptations, Sonia Baez, Richie Havens, Earth, ames Brown, Wind & Fire, Gil Scott Heron, just to name a few, who often sang about race, socio-political and economic situations, that were going on at the time, from drugs, racial injustices, socio-economic and political issues, to singing about the Vietnam War, etc..

I think what caught a lot of Prince fans off guard, is that to most fans, Prince is a musician that crossed racial lines with his music, and brought a lot of fans from various, racial groups together through his music, in one space. At the same time, some of his songs, from early on, touched on topics. such as race/gender/war/religion/socio-political and economic issues, , etc., and he never really shyed away from that. But the Rainbow Children album was heavy on historical racial issues and religion, and many fans didn't know how to embrace that album.

He dared to discuss what many are afraid to talk about or acknowledge regarding the historical, racial issues that has happened between specific groups, that is still a very, touchy, uncomfortable topic today No question, many of us have seen these topics discussed in P&R many times in heated debates, because not too many want to listen, acknowledge or read about those ugly, historical and some current truths about racism, and many disagree on topics regarding religion. So both topics are very uncomfortable to discuss, and many take both topics personally.

The question is, were some fans uncomfortable because he made comparisons between the Jewish Holocaust vs Transatlantic Slave Trade, and some fans interpreted the line "Jewish Holocaust aside" , in the song, as the artist trying to devalue that tragedy? When I listened to the song 'Family Name', I didn't see it that he meant it that way at all, and I'm only speaking for myself.

It seems to me, he was bringing attention to the fact that the Transatlantic Slave Trade (TSA) was a holocaust, and that has never really been acknowledged or given the same respect, on a national or international basis, like the Jewish Holocaust has been, and I believe that was the awareness he was trying to raise, in specific songs on that album. He injected bits and pieces of historical events of the TSA, to raise awareness to the listene,r as to how could it not have been a holocaust, but yet to many in this countr,y and the rest of the world, the Jewish Holocaust is acknowledged as a 'holocaust', while the TSA tragedy, is not acknowledged as such or on that same level, for that matter, and that is where the comparisons are being made in Prince's song, 'Family Name'. .

When he references Jewish names and states "'...at least you have your family name", well there is truth to that, although I have heard that many Jewish people were forced at one time or another to change their surnames, as a matter of survival, and due to discrimination. But I believe the point in the song about their names, was at least many were still able to trace the history of their famlly name, and had a 'home' so-to-speak, they could trace it to. With many enslaved Africans during the Transatlantic Slave Trade, (I'm just referencing the enslaved Africans brought to what is known today as America, although many enslaved Africans, taken to different places around the world, experienced similar, tragic experiences), many had no choice, as they were forced to let go of their birth names, history and culture, once enslaved by their owners, and were given names was bought/sold/traded, by their owners, and later on given surnames of their owners.

Remember now, they came from many African ethnic groups with different languages, cultures, religious beliefs, when they were bought/sold/traded to various owners, and some more name changes took place during the process, many times, when they were sold to new owners. Many never made it back to their homelands, and died with the surnames given to them by their slave owners.

The offspring of the enslaved Africans, born on what is known today as America, who were born on American soil, adopted those surnames as well, because they had no choice, given the historical circumstances. The children/descendants of native-born Africans, thereafter, passed those surnames to every generation of those who identify as Black American today. If those surnames are traced today, it would mainly lead to a European or European American who may not even have any family relation to Black Americans, this is of course,is if the slaveowner of their African ancestors, didn't produce any children from any of his enslaved, African females. The surnames of the majority of enslaved Africans are not of 'Black African ethnic origins. So I get Prince's point in the lyrics of 'Family Name', because he's only telling an uncomfortable truth, and truth be told, uncomfortable truths will ruffle feathers and make some uneasy and nervous. But honestly, when doesn't these types of discussions on racial, historical matters don't make some uncomfortable?

So I don't think it was not an intention on Prince's part, to divide his fans, moreso than it was about educating them regarding the comparisons of those two tragic events, and raising awareness that many within American society and around the world do not acknowledge or give the same respect to the history, victims/outcome of the Transatlantic Slave Trade tragedy, as they give to the history and victims/survivors of the Jewish Holocaust. An uncomfortable truth? Yes, of course.

The above is very well said. I will only add that TRC became/was/is the flashpoint for many (not all) of Prince's white, gay, and feminist fans who feel betrayed (which was a word used by more than one orger) that Prince whom they had embraced for his multiracial, gender-bending persona and manifesto had now embraced a culturally recessive and oppressive (especially for gays and women) religion. Thus, for some of these fans (whites, gays, and feminists) Prince's embracing of specific struggles regarding African Americans as well as his new Christian ideology was offensive. However, others on this site, myself included, asserted that if one did not see TRC coming then one just hadn't been listening to Prince all these years. Prince had always used Christian imagery, and even a song, such as "Anne Christian," loosely embraces the Christian narrative and doctrine of ultimate good and ultimate evil though admittedly it doesn't draw as concise or precise lines in the sand to assert just who his good and just who is evil as TRC does. Still, the Christian narrative/doctrine has always existed in Prince's work, moreso as him struggling to reconcile his individual desires with Christian doctrine as in "Temptation," and with TRC Prince seems no longer to be struggling and has found a way or found some peace with balancing his individual desires and the Christian doctrine. Additionally, while Prince had always used the dialect and rhythms of the African American community, it was so well blended with rock/punk elements that he was loved by his white fans for being the erotic hybrid (physically, ideologically, and musically). Yet, by 1991/92 his issues with Warner Bros. seemed to cause him to question--first the record company and then America in general--whether or not the majority of white America could ever accept an African American on the same terms as a white person. (On the This is My Night bootleg before performing "No Black Muthafuckers in the House," Prince--referring to the O. J. Simpson case asks, "So what will the verdict be?" To which the mostly white audience emphatically responds "guilty!" What is interesting is that Prince, based on the tone of his response, "guilty?," is almost shocked at the answer of this mostly white crowd that seemingly could not fathom or conceive of the notion that Simpson could be innocent or that the police were trying to frame Simpson. So, as an African American Prince is seemingly—based on the songs he begins to write—realizing that more of an ideological gap or conflict exists between him and white America, including many of his hardcore white fans who were supposedly fans of multiculturalism.) And while we can debate whether or not Prince's feelings were valid, these are feelings that begin to emerge, especially if we evaluate songs from that period to the present, such as "No Black Muthafuckers in the House," "What's Your Color?," "Uncle Sam," "Paris 1798430," "We March," and others. So, his arrival at the racial themes in TRC were not just plucked from the air to create controversy or to sell records; this had been an evolution of an artist who, because of what he perceived as a personal slight from the record company for which he had made millions, was now seemingly evaluating other areas of his life and society, which snowballed (excuse the pun, "Avalanche") into TRC. So, again, based on the fact that the Christian narrative had always been a part of his work, based on the fact that he had always written songs of socio-political commentary albeit from a more personal/individual and multicultural aspect, and based on the fact that by 1991 Prince was starting to question and engage more specific issues of racism and discrimination against African Americans, then I don't know how anyone could not see TRC coming or could have been surprised by it.

*

Now, if people just don't like it aesthetically (they think the lyrics are not creative and mean-spirited and the music is boring), then that's another thing. However, TRC is definitely one of my favorite albums, possible top five, and I've been a Prince fan since 1980. The music is different, eclectic, and mostly funky, and the lyrics are engaging, often smart, creative, and important for the manner in which they address issues that force so-called liberal people to analyze just how liberal they are.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

WaterInYourBath said:

Sounds more like a DSM-IV disorder.

Maybe but you know how I got it!

[img:$uid]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/SexyBeautifulOne/Prince%20Gifs/tumblr_m105o9hXzo1qcvaxho5_250.gif[/img:$uid]

1725topp said:

2elijah said:

I agree with Harlepolis. I think many fans interpreted the lyrics to what they wanted to hear, instead of trying to understand the point of the message in the lyrics. Anytime, a musician/artist sing about anything historical/socio-political/racial, etc., it's no surprise fans will question the lyrics, find some type of controversy about it. But many musicians/artists of the mid to early 70s, sang socio-political songs that touched on the racial and socio-political atmosphere at the time in the U.S. and as those issues related around the world.

Curtis Mayfield, The Temptations, Sonia Baez, Richie Havens, Earth, ames Brown, Wind & Fire, Gil Scott Heron, just to name a few, who often sang about race, socio-political and economic situations, that were going on at the time, from drugs, racial injustices, socio-economic and political issues, to singing about the Vietnam War, etc..

I think what caught a lot of Prince fans off guard, is that to most fans, Prince is a musician that crossed racial lines with his music, and brought a lot of fans from various, racial groups together through his music, in one space. At the same time, some of his songs, from early on, touched on topics. such as race/gender/war/religion/socio-political and economic issues, , etc., and he never really shyed away from that. But the Rainbow Children album was heavy on historical racial issues and religion, and many fans didn't know how to embrace that album.

He dared to discuss what many are afraid to talk about or acknowledge regarding the historical, racial issues that has happened between specific groups, that is still a very, touchy, uncomfortable topic today No question, many of us have seen these topics discussed in P&R many times in heated debates, because not too many want to listen, acknowledge or read about those ugly, historical and some current truths about racism, and many disagree on topics regarding religion. So both topics are very uncomfortable to discuss, and many take both topics personally.

The question is, were some fans uncomfortable because he made comparisons between the Jewish Holocaust vs Transatlantic Slave Trade, and some fans interpreted the line "Jewish Holocaust aside" , in the song, as the artist trying to devalue that tragedy? When I listened to the song 'Family Name', I didn't see it that he meant it that way at all, and I'm only speaking for myself.

It seems to me, he was bringing attention to the fact that the Transatlantic Slave Trade (TSA) was a holocaust, and that has never really been acknowledged or given the same respect, on a national or international basis, like the Jewish Holocaust has been, and I believe that was the awareness he was trying to raise, in specific songs on that album. He injected bits and pieces of historical events of the TSA, to raise awareness to the listene,r as to how could it not have been a holocaust, but yet to many in this countr,y and the rest of the world, the Jewish Holocaust is acknowledged as a 'holocaust', while the TSA tragedy, is not acknowledged as such or on that same level, for that matter, and that is where the comparisons are being made in Prince's song, 'Family Name'. .

When he references Jewish names and states "'...at least you have your family name", well there is truth to that, although I have heard that many Jewish people were forced at one time or another to change their surnames, as a matter of survival, and due to discrimination. But I believe the point in the song about their names, was at least many were still able to trace the history of their famlly name, and had a 'home' so-to-speak, they could trace it to. With many enslaved Africans during the Transatlantic Slave Trade, (I'm just referencing the enslaved Africans brought to what is known today as America, although many enslaved Africans, taken to different places around the world, experienced similar, tragic experiences), many had no choice, as they were forced to let go of their birth names, history and culture, once enslaved by their owners, and were given names was bought/sold/traded, by their owners, and later on given surnames of their owners.

Remember now, they came from many African ethnic groups with different languages, cultures, religious beliefs, when they were bought/sold/traded to various owners, and some more name changes took place during the process, many times, when they were sold to new owners. Many never made it back to their homelands, and died with the surnames given to them by their slave owners.

The offspring of the enslaved Africans, born on what is known today as America, who were born on American soil, adopted those surnames as well, because they had no choice, given the historical circumstances. The children/descendants of native-born Africans, thereafter, passed those surnames to every generation of those who identify as Black American today. If those surnames are traced today, it would mainly lead to a European or European American who may not even have any family relation to Black Americans, this is of course,is if the slaveowner of their African ancestors, didn't produce any children from any of his enslaved, African females. The surnames of the majority of enslaved Africans are not of 'Black African ethnic origins. So I get Prince's point in the lyrics of 'Family Name', because he's only telling an uncomfortable truth, and truth be told, uncomfortable truths will ruffle feathers and make some uneasy and nervous. But honestly, when doesn't these types of discussions on racial, historical matters don't make some uncomfortable?

So I don't think it was not an intention on Prince's part, to divide his fans, moreso than it was about educating them regarding the comparisons of those two tragic events, and raising awareness that many within American society and around the world do not acknowledge or give the same respect to the history, victims/outcome of the Transatlantic Slave Trade tragedy, as they give to the history and victims/survivors of the Jewish Holocaust. An uncomfortable truth? Yes, of course.

The above is very well said. I will only add that TRC became/was/is the flashpoint for many (not all) of Prince's white, gay, and feminist fans who feel betrayed (which was a word used by more than one orger) that Prince whom they had embraced for his multiracial, gender-bending persona and manifesto had now embraced a culturally recessive and oppressive (especially for gays and women) religion. Thus, for some of these fans (whites, gays, and feminists) Prince's embracing of specific struggles regarding African Americans as well as his new Christian ideology was offensive. However, others on this site, myself included, asserted that if one did not see TRC coming then one just hadn't been listening to Prince all these years. Prince had always used Christian imagery, and even a song, such as "Anne Christian," loosely embraces the Christian narrative and doctrine of ultimate good and ultimate evil though admittedly it doesn't draw as concise or precise lines in the sand to assert just who his good and just who is evil as TRC does. Still, the Christian narrative/doctrine has always existed in Prince's work, moreso as him struggling to reconcile his individual desires with Christian doctrine as in "Temptation," and with TRC Prince seems no longer to be struggling and has found a way or found some peace with balancing his individual desires and the Christian doctrine. Additionally, while Prince had always used the dialect and rhythms of the African American community, it was so well blended with rock/punk elements that he was loved by his white fans for being the erotic hybrid (physically, ideologically, and musically). Yet, by 1991/92 his issues with Warner Bros. seemed to cause him to question--first the record company and then America in general--whether or not the majority of white America could ever accept an African American on the same terms as a white person. (On the This is My Night bootleg before performing "No Black Muthafuckers in the House," Prince--referring to the O. J. Simpson case asks, "So what will the verdict be?" To which the mostly white audience emphatically responds "guilty!" What is interesting is that Prince, based on the tone of his response, "guilty?," is almost shocked at the answer of this mostly white crowd that seemingly could not fathom or conceive of the notion that Simpson could be innocent or that the police were trying to frame Simpson. So, as an African American Prince is seemingly—based on the songs he begins to write—realizing that more of an ideological gap or conflict exists between him and white America, including many of his hardcore white fans who were supposedly fans of multiculturalism.) And while we can debate whether or not Prince's feelings were valid, these are feelings that begin to emerge, especially if we evaluate songs from that period to the present, such as "No Black Muthafuckers in the House," "What's Your Color?," "Uncle Sam," "Paris 1798430," "We March," and others. So, his arrival at the racial themes in TRC were not just plucked from the air to create controversy or to sell records; this had been an evolution of an artist who, because of what he perceived as a personal slight from the record company for which he had made millions, was now seemingly evaluating other areas of his life and society, which snowballed (excuse the pun, "Avalanche") into TRC. So, again, based on the fact that the Christian narrative had always been a part of his work, based on the fact that he had always written songs of socio-political commentary albeit from a more personal/individual and multicultural aspect, and based on the fact that by 1991 Prince was starting to question and engage more specific issues of racism and discrimination against African Americans, then I don't know how anyone could not see TRC coming or could have been surprised by it.

*

Now, if people just don't like it aesthetically (they think the lyrics are not creative and mean-spirited and the music is boring), then that's another thing. However, TRC is definitely one of my favorite albums, possible top five, and I've been a Prince fan since 1980. The music is different, eclectic, and mostly funky, and the lyrics are engaging, often smart, creative, and important for the manner in which they address issues that force so-called liberal people to analyze just how liberal they are.

Its interesting that his songs that discussed racial matters exposed some feelings within some of his listeners though. I remember when a thread about "Avalanche" was posted a couple of years ago, the usual melodrama was taking place, but what stuck in my mind the most was this orger who said something to the effect that "Prince is spewing racist propoganda. He should stick to singing about sex because he comes across as awkward and sloppy in any other subject".

And he got a heap load of co-signs as well, which led me to believe that some of the folks in here ONLY viewed him as this one-dimensional 24/7 sex crazed buffoon who's incapable of displaying ANY emotion that doesn't cater to that notion. They probably still do.

But then again, when somebody have a strong following like him, you're liable to find a group of people with a strong sense of self-entitlement, and anything that artist release that may remotely have overtones that doesn't sit well with them(and people have NEVER been comfortable with the "race" subject) they end up feeling alianated.

The sad reality is, Prince doesn't live in a Paisley Park utopia, when push comes to shove, he's a black man who still lives in so-called post-racial America, rich notwithstanding. Some people want him to go back to that fantasy, I suppose there's some comfort for escapism, but eventually it won't last long.

I think with TRC(and the other music that addressed racial matters) they serve a balance with his past outputs, and frankly, I don't mind another TRC, so to speak.

I spent years bashing the album mercilessy, but have eased back lately as I realise the music is quite good and some of the ballads are very good. The lyrical content is practically just recruitment propaganda for an extremist cult. The album was an anathema coming from some who in the 80s voiced sexual freedom and openess to become so conservative and morose.

My ratings from the list...

Overall the album got a score of 59% a high C, which ranks it near the bottom of my list at 28th out 33 albums. This means its very mediocre bordering on weak, Prionce has made many better albums than this and its very uneven, on the other hand its better than the late 90s rubbish like Chaos and Disorder, the truth and New powersoul, and quite good given it came from Prince's nadir between 1996 and 2003.

Its strengths are its jazzy lite sound, some of the keyboards, some excellent vocals and great ballads, also the fact its a very pure sounding album, he avoids the cursing of his 90s material and its not larded with a lot of extra overdubs like the 90s stuff. Rather than sounding plastic and fake, it sounds real. If he had not added such controversial lyrics (Bigotry, pro Jehovah, anti semitism, misogjny and armageddon like prophecies and left out the ridiculous God Vader voice, it may have scored in the 70s.

Its controversial, because he was acting like a narrow minded religious bigot in an era where Christianity and religion in particular are seen as a domain of the ignorant and Prince proved his ignorance with these lyrics. Its hard to believe songs about the vanquished ones perishing at Gods Wrath, theocratic voids, and "Pleased to meet you Mr Goldstruck" came from a man who was speaking about setting your mind free 20 years earlier. This is a musical flip flop. Thank God he has eased back a bit now.

Its controversial too as people blamed Larry Graham the man who bought the JW faith into his life for inspiring this stuff. Larry is up there with Tony M on the list of "Destructive influences on Prince". But in reality its in the eye of the beholder, either you take the lyrics seriously or you don't. last year I learnt to just enjoy the music and not judge him by his lyrics, after all do not judge, lest thineself be judged.

This dosen't mean I love it, its still a weak album on the whole and every album since it (Excepting the NPGMC, News has exceeded it).

rdhull said:

Harlepolis said:

1725topp said:

The above is very well said. I will only add that TRC became/was/is the flashpoint for many (not all) of Prince's white, gay, and feminist fans who feel betrayed (which was a word used by more than one orger) that Prince whom they had embraced for his multiracial, gender-bending persona and manifesto had now embraced a culturally recessive and oppressive (especially for gays and women) religion. Thus, for some of these fans (whites, gays, and feminists) Prince's embracing of specific struggles regarding African Americans as well as his new Christian ideology was offensive. However, others on this site, myself included, asserted that if one did not see TRC coming then one just hadn't been listening to Prince all these years. Prince had always used Christian imagery, and even a song, such as "Anne Christian," loosely embraces the Christian narrative and doctrine of ultimate good and ultimate evil though admittedly it doesn't draw as concise or precise lines in the sand to assert just who his good and just who is evil as TRC does. Still, the Christian narrative/doctrine has always existed in Prince's work, moreso as him struggling to reconcile his individual desires with Christian doctrine as in "Temptation," and with TRC Prince seems no longer to be struggling and has found a way or found some peace with balancing his individual desires and the Christian doctrine. Additionally, while Prince had always used the dialect and rhythms of the African American community, it was so well blended with rock/punk elements that he was loved by his white fans for being the erotic hybrid (physically, ideologically, and musically). Yet, by 1991/92 his issues with Warner Bros. seemed to cause him to question--first the record company and then America in general--whether or not the majority of white America could ever accept an African American on the same terms as a white person. (On the This is My Night bootleg before performing "No Black Muthafuckers in the House," Prince--referring to the O. J. Simpson case asks, "So what will the verdict be?" To which the mostly white audience emphatically responds "guilty!" What is interesting is that Prince, based on the tone of his response, "guilty?," is almost shocked at the answer of this mostly white crowd that seemingly could not fathom or conceive of the notion that Simpson could be innocent or that the police were trying to frame Simpson. So, as an African American Prince is seemingly—based on the songs he begins to write—realizing that more of an ideological gap or conflict exists between him and white America, including many of his hardcore white fans who were supposedly fans of multiculturalism.) And while we can debate whether or not Prince's feelings were valid, these are feelings that begin to emerge, especially if we evaluate songs from that period to the present, such as "No Black Muthafuckers in the House," "What's Your Color?," "Uncle Sam," "Paris 1798430," "We March," and others. So, his arrival at the racial themes in TRC were not just plucked from the air to create controversy or to sell records; this had been an evolution of an artist who, because of what he perceived as a personal slight from the record company for which he had made millions, was now seemingly evaluating other areas of his life and society, which snowballed (excuse the pun, "Avalanche") into TRC. So, again, based on the fact that the Christian narrative had always been a part of his work, based on the fact that he had always written songs of socio-political commentary albeit from a more personal/individual and multicultural aspect, and based on the fact that by 1991 Prince was starting to question and engage more specific issues of racism and discrimination against African Americans, then I don't know how anyone could not see TRC coming or could have been surprised by it.

*

Now, if people just don't like it aesthetically (they think the lyrics are not creative and mean-spirited and the music is boring), then that's another thing. However, TRC is definitely one of my favorite albums, possible top five, and I've been a Prince fan since 1980. The music is different, eclectic, and mostly funky, and the lyrics are engaging, often smart, creative, and important for the manner in which they address issues that force so-called liberal people to analyze just how liberal they are.

Its interesting that his songs that discussed racial matters exposed some feelings within some of his listeners though. I remember when a thread about "Avalanche" was posted a couple of years ago, the usual melodrama was taking place, but what stuck in my mind the most was this orger who said something to the effect that "Prince is spewing racist propoganda. He should stick to singing about sex because he comes across as awkward and sloppy in any other subject".

And he got a heap load of co-signs as well, which led me to believe that some of the folks in here ONLY viewed him as this one-dimensional 24/7 sex crazed buffoon who's incapable of displaying ANY emotion that doesn't cater to that notion. They probably still do.

But then again, when somebody have a strong following like him, you're liable to find a group of people with a strong sense of self-entitlement, and anything that artist release that may remotely have overtones that doesn't sit well with them(and people have NEVER been comfortable with the "race" subject) they end up feeling alianated.

The sad reality is, Prince doesn't live in a Paisley Park utopia, when push comes to shove, he's a black man who still lives in so-called post-racial America, rich notwithstanding. Some people want him to go back to that fantasy, I suppose there's some comfort for escapism, but eventually it won't last long.

I think with TRC(and the other music that addressed racial matters) they serve a balance with his past outputs, and frankly, I don't mind another TRC, so to speak.

May I say I how I truly enjoyed reading both your comments? I'm going to address both yours and 1725Stopp's posts, because you are both on point with your comments. I agree that race and religion are very, touchy subjects, and like 1725stopp mentioned, around the Warner Bros. situation, it does seem like Prince's awareness and curiosity of racial issues within the music industry may have come into question or peaked his interest, as to the level of respect he was receiving from WB execs, as a Black-American musician/artist who knew exactly how he wanted to present his music to his fans.This certainly brings to mind his bold lyrics and clear message in his song. "Don't Play Me", as he gets right to the point with those lyrics and it is no question, what issue he is addressing or his awareness of it. I also agree that a lot of his awareness/interests regarding historical, racial issues, religion, etc., can be heard in the TRC album, and on songs on other albums, that also touch on, political issues and societal injustices and of course, again religion.

As mentioned by both of you, I agree that there are some fans who seem to send the message to Prince as if to say, 'When you write a song, don't focus on anything meaningful regarding societal ills/injustices/political issues, that would make fans think, so just play the music instead.'

In other words, like you both mentioned, some, not all of course, would probably rather a 'mindless' musician focusing on something of possibly a more sexual nature, maybe to fill sexual voids or fantasies they believe he can fill, based on the image they create of him, for themselves, rather than having him writing lyrics in relation to societal concerns. Maybe some fans, feel that if he presents any acknowledgement/concerns, awareness of anything socio-political/spiritual, etc., outside of the image they have of him, that those lyrics may force them to tap into their own minds, and question their characters, awareness or acknowledgment of such topics, something they may not have expected from their favorite artist, related to those issues. In other words, to those type fans, some of their reactions may be something like "My goodness, how dare that he should sing of such matters!"

I've read in the past, where some fans assumed that, he was going through some 'Afro-centric' phase, in regards to some songs,(i.e., 'Family Name)', in the TRC album. I believe most wanted to believe that because they were not prepared to embrace those uncomfortable, historical truths/events, so some convinced themselves that he was either being brainwashed by those around him or was going through a phase. This is apparently what some may have wanted to believe, rather than embrace the fact that their favorite musician/artist, expressed those feelings and words in those songs.

Some of those comments and reactions, from his fans, seem to have been based on the image they created of him, for themselves, and preferred he 'stay in the box', they chose to put him in. So when the image they have of him 'steps out the box', it becomes an unexpected, unrecognizable turn for some fans.

There's no question, of course, that many fans are aware, that this is an artist who spoke about loving one another, and wrote songs like 'Race' with lyrics that stated "Race in the space I mark human", but those words does not necessarily mean he was/is unaware/blind to ongoing, societal racial prejudices or socio-economic conditions or that he couldn't or shouldn't, openly express his thoughts about any present-day societal ills, in his music. I think often times, that's where some of his fans get 'confused,' yet it's no secret, that he was always a bold musician who 'shocked and awed' from the beginning of his career, with what he expressed in his music. So, by Prince expressing his thoughts or raising awareness of historical or current societal injustices today, like in the TRC album and others, that shouldn't really be a surprise to most of his fans.

'Edited for a few spelling/grammatical changes'