mistermaxxx said:

Exactly. But don't you think it was just called "soul" then... and it took a bit of a hiatus with 80s pop soul production styles?

I know folks want to say that "neosoul" is an industry label created for marketing purposes, and to some extent it's true that Kedar Massenburg did that with D and Erykah. Buuut, I think there's something to be said about the harkening back to the production quality and instrumentation when music was more instrumental based, less synthesized, etc.

NuPwrSoul said:

I mean One could make a Argument of "Off The Wall" By MJ Being Neo-Soul as well&when you hear the Slow cuts off "Invincible" Reflecting "off The Wall" In parts.I mention Him because He has had songs that Reflect Neo-Soul like "Liberian Girl".but in the 80's along with Frankie Berverly&Maze,Luther Vandross&Anita Baker were Neo-Soul before it had a Name.yeah the 80's for the most part took away the Soul with the Technilogy which we are still paying for in certain elements no doubt.Great Points you made but One of the FOunding People of Neo-Soul or Soul as we knew it then was Stevie Wonder who was Great before Technilgoy took Off&rose to another notch with it,but also got lost in it.interesting topic because there are so many spins to it&truth is you can't go wrong.

mistermaxxx said:

I think Michael did his best work with live instrumentation. I was never fond of the Flyte Time or Teddy Riley stuff. The Teddy Riley stuff came too late on the heels of the New Jack Swing movement ending... and I've always felt that Jimmy Jam gets too happy with the drum machine. Whenever MJ did rely on live instrumentation I think it forced his vocals to be more up front in the mix and showcase his voice better, otherwise he was reduced to grunting. "Butterflies" from "Invincible is his best recent track and it's no surprise that it was done by "neosoul" group Floetry... and yes it does harken to the best of the Off the Wall days.

Steve made a smooth transition with technology and really made it work. But I agree he got lost in it in the 80s. I would love to hear Stevie go back to his basic production values; or let someone like Saadiq hook him up with some tracks.

To me that's the first step... go back to live instrumentation. It's what in part made The Rainbow Children so critically successful for Prince.

NuPwrSoul said:

I Applauded MJ for trying different things&also given the Current Soul brothers that are Producing a Shot at working with Him.I Liked MJ with Teddy for the fact "New Jack Swing" IMHO worked well with His Voice."Remember The Time" was Echoed off the Jacksons "Show You the Way to go".I think MJ wanted to Proce He could do that Style&for Me He did a Really Good Job.but then again MJ did a Pre-Cursor to New Jack Swing on "baby Be Mine"&"PYT" when you think about it."Dangerous" is My Last Fav MJ Album all the way through&"Stranger in Moscow" is the Last MJ Song that truly knocked me out.I Enjoyed the SLow cuts on "Invincible" like Butterflies,Whatever Happens&Especially "Break of Dawn".but do hope MJ will strip things back down.I give Him Props for taking a chance at working with what is happening because Every Artist worth there Weight wants to See how they Hang wiht what is happening. Funny you mention that about Stevie because a few months back I Heard about Stevie working with Saadiq.it would be interesting. while I wasn't crazy overall with the "Rainbow Children" I did enjoy the Fact that as you Mentioned that Prince went back to Instrumentation it was a Welcome return that Instrumentation was there again after so long being tucked away.

mistermaxxx said:

Of course, hell Ballad Of Dorothy Parker brought the values by Prince before. The vibe labelled "neo Soul" did bring a distnict sound in a modern context though and "Dark" was a recent precursor.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Do actually think Musiq, Angie Stone, Jill Scott, and others like being called "neo-soul" artists. This is just something record companies call them to categorize music. They do what they love...and if they want to pay homage 2 the cats from "back in the day", then let them. DONT HATE!

Like the Roots, where would record companies put them? They have both guys that rap and play instruments. They r not just hip hop nor soul...they r both.

Prince is the creator of Neo Soul

Basically all these artist are just trying to sound like Prince and they call it Neo Soul For instants D'angelo , Bilal, Angie Stone if that ain't Prince
[This message was edited Sat Mar 29 10:00:00 PST 2003 by DigitalLisa]

NuPwrSoul said:

tell it! tell it like it IS, mayn...waves scarf

NuPwrSoul said:

Exactly. That was my point; it's just regular SOUL MUSIC being created by a different generation. It's not new at all, but that's exactly the reason there is a different label put on it. The recording industry knows it's extremely hard to sell "Soul Music", even by this generation of artists because that title conjures up an older form, with older artists creating it - the music our parents grooved to 25-30 years ago. Therefore, they knew they needed a newer label to slap on it to maximize their marketing potential.

It's no different than "Grunge" - which wasn't new with Nirvana's Nevermind album - as some would have you believe. It was the same type of hard rock with punk influences being done by the Pixies, and Soundgarden among others prior to that album. But the "grunge" movement didn't start til after Nirvana hit the stratosphere.

rdhull said:

NuPwrSoul said:

Amen! It seems like all of these singers with their songs today are still just chasing Ballad of Dorothy Parker. Trying to have that cool vibe like that song BACK then! And bands and singers have been using Rhodes for decaded now, so there's nothing new or "neo" about it.

rdhull said:

i agree!! i play 7 different instruments.. and it's hard for me to get a gig due to hip hop cat's who don't know the slightest about music.. i like some hip-hop.. but i tell u the years i spent learning music and instruments seems somewhat wasted in this era of sampling! prince brings back the genuiness of music.. along with cat's like maxwell, bilal, eryka badu, etc...

Well, Badu is currently the queen of neo-soul, and she rips Prince a new asshole everytime she drops a new album. It is Prince who must reach her level, not the other way around. Prince aint been shit for a while. Come to grips.

And don't forget Prince rips off James Brown, Hendrix and new wave on his earlier albums that you old school goofs love so much. So you are such to talk. lol.

Deja. Miss ya dear.