That's the fun of being into Prince, the research. If you're really dying to know these things, there are resources to look it up. What's the fun just having people tell you everything.

PurpleSullivan said:

Not sure of all of them, but I know about Partyup, Do Me, Baby, and Kiss. 1) Partyup- the music was that of something Morris came up with. Prince offered him either a side project or a lump sum of money. He took the sidegroup, and Prince wrote lyrics. 2)Do Me, Baby- was apparently based on something André Cymone came up with on bass. 3)Kiss- originally a bluesy number. Prince gave it to Mark Brown's side Mazarati. Then they along with David Z. reconfigured it into the song you hear now. Prince heard it and decided to take it back.

Kiss: My opinion is that Mazarati came up with the musical arrangement, but Prince totally changed the vocal arrangement, and had already written most of the song. It probably wouldn't have been huge without the combination of both parties.

Do Me, Baby: Not really sure.

Partyup: This is a strange one. Legend has it Morris wrote all the music, and some of the lyrics. Prince cannot really be trusted for accurate writing credits. Prince obviously wrote most if not all of the Time's first 3 albums, but there are all kinds of conflicting reports on it. Why Prince would give writing credits to fake names when it came to the Time, The Family, Sheila E, etc...who knows? What I do find as really strange, is that I consider Partyup to be maybe the 6th best song on Dirty Mind, yet a lot of people think Prince stole this classic song from Morris in exchange for money or the job in the Time. I just don't see the song as worth all that much.

The only true value of Partyup would be that Prince wanted another album with the "Written, Produced, Composed...etc...by Prince."

If Morris did write Partyup, it is odd that his only other real success in writing was with his first solo album. Daydreaming was nowhere near the level of his first album, and Jam & Lewis probably wrote most of Fishnet, which was clearly miles beyond the second best song on the album.

Of course, since Prince hides the details, I could be wrong on all accounts...still, I find it hard to believe that Jesse Johnson, as wonderful as he is, really had anything to do with Jungle Love or The Bird.

PurpleSullivan said:

2)Do Me, Baby- was apparently based on something André Cymone came up with on bass.

Listen to the first minute of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drEZ2TihfG0

stillwaiting said:

The only true value of Partyup would be that Prince wanted another album with the "Written, Produced, Composed...etc...by Prince."

Then why did he give Dr. Fink a co-credit on "Head"?

As for PartyUp, the story I always heard that Morris had a catchy drumline and Prince wanted it. (Again, the story I always heard.) Maybe the basic story we've always heard, Prince tried to lift that drumline and Morris nailed him, like a big losing lawsuit against him and WB and Prince settled by the Time gig? I don't know.

As for Kiss, I still think it's pretty obvious Mazarati/David Z. got screwed out of co-credit on that one. Especially if indeed the story is true that the "Kiss" demo given to them originally was what, 1 minute long, a chorus and one verse?

RRA said:

stillwaiting said:

The only true value of Partyup would be that Prince wanted another album with the "Written, Produced, Composed...etc...by Prince."

Then why did he give Dr. Fink a co-credit on "Head"?

As for PartyUp, the story I always heard that Morris had a catchy drumline and Prince wanted it. (Again, the story I always heard.) Maybe the basic story we've always heard, Prince tried to lift that drumline and Morris nailed him, like a big losing lawsuit against him and WB and Prince settled by the Time gig? I don't know.

As for Kiss, I still think it's pretty obvious Mazarati/David Z. got screwed out of co-credit on that one. Especially if indeed the story is true that the "Kiss" demo given to them originally was what, 1 minute long, a chorus and one verse?

I probably should've made it more clear that like most everything else, Prince contradicts himself. He did put the * except where indicated disclaimer on there, I think. It's like Prince wanted it to be confusing who wrote anything, but still wanted most of the credit.

Still, some people overcredit the other's involvement with Prince's success. Andre, Wendy, Lisa, Dr Fink, etc...all had a nice role in Prince's success. Many of them would be unknown without Prince. Prince still would've been huge no matter who his supporting cast was. Sure, many will think I'm crazy, but other than the nice output by W&L, which is nice, nearly everything else the supporting cast did after leaving Prince was not actually million selling stuff. (Not counting Jam & Lewis, who would not have been huge as solo artists.)

ludwig said:

PurpleSullivan said:

2)Do Me, Baby- was apparently based on something André Cymone came up with on bass.

Listen to the first minute of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drEZ2TihfG0

You may want to listen to this abit as well!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgMy6eInnPc

prince and his band jam on shit .. prince listens to the rehearsal tape .. prince records all the parts others came up with and calls them his own .. prince sometimes credits the collaborations but often does not resulting in numerous claims of prince not crediting collaborators .. collaborators are then fired and prince musical songwriting abilities drop to bevis and butthead levels of inspiration and quality

stillwaiting said:

RRA said:

Then why did he give Dr. Fink a co-credit on "Head"?

As for PartyUp, the story I always heard that Morris had a catchy drumline and Prince wanted it. (Again, the story I always heard.) Maybe the basic story we've always heard, Prince tried to lift that drumline and Morris nailed him, like a big losing lawsuit against him and WB and Prince settled by the Time gig? I don't know.

As for Kiss, I still think it's pretty obvious Mazarati/David Z. got screwed out of co-credit on that one. Especially if indeed the story is true that the "Kiss" demo given to them originally was what, 1 minute long, a chorus and one verse?

I probably should've made it more clear that like most everything else, Prince contradicts himself. He did put the * except where indicated disclaimer on there, I think. It's like Prince wanted it to be confusing who wrote anything, but still wanted most of the credit.

Still, some people overcredit the other's involvement with Prince's success. Andre, Wendy, Lisa, Dr Fink, etc...all had a nice role in Prince's success. Many of them would be unknown without Prince. Prince still would've been huge no matter who his supporting cast was. Sure, many will think I'm crazy, but other than the nice output by W&L, which is nice, nearly everything else the supporting cast did after leaving Prince was not actually million selling stuff. (Not counting Jam & Lewis, who would not have been huge as solo artists.)

But that shows what a good team of people he had that could have supported him

I'm one that says the statement "He would still have been just as big" is something we can't really say, it's like saying if Fargnoli didn't write Purple Rain(movie) that it would have been just as big. If Prince wrote it and directed it I doubt PR(era) would have been big. He had the write people in the protege bands and his own that help make him a 'star'

TrevorAyer said:

prince and his band jam on shit .. prince listens to the rehearsal tape .. prince records all the parts others came up with and calls them his own .. prince sometimes credits the collaborations but often does not resulting in numerous claims of prince not crediting collaborators .. collaborators are then fired and prince musical songwriting abilities drop to bevis and butthead levels of inspiration and quality

In his post-Prince interviews, Miko Weaver often told how he'd come up with licks etc. in rehearsal, only to then notice how they'd end up in finished songs without him getting credit, not even an acknowledgement by Prince or a simple thank you. This is what caused him to be far less involved later on. Confronting Prince didn't help, either. But if he'd make the smallest mistake, he'd get criticism from Prince or even a fine...

That is one of Prince qualities. His way of understanding how some licks in the jam session fit into a song. A composer and producer that is able to see the bigger picture in music will be able to do so, but many musicians just do some cool stuff here and there, and doesn't know what to make out of it. They're just having fun and making hella grooves on the spot.

stillwaiting said:

Still, some people overcredit the other's involvement with Prince's success. Andre, Wendy, Lisa, Dr Fink, etc...all had a nice role in Prince's success. Many of them would be unknown without Prince. Prince still would've been huge no matter who his supporting cast was.

There's no way to know this, and IMHO the evidence points to this not being the case. Let's not forget those people introduced him to music he didn't know before he met them.

Sure, many will think I'm crazy, but other than the nice output by W&L, which is nice, nearly everything else the supporting cast did after leaving Prince was not actually million selling stuff. (Not counting Jam & Lewis, who would not have been huge as solo artists.)

Perhaps they used up most of their ideas during their work with Prince?

Replica said:

That is one of Prince qualities. His way of understanding how some licks in the jam session fit into a song. A composer and producer that is able to see the bigger picture in music will be able to do so, but many musicians just do some cool stuff here and there, and doesn't know what to make out of it. They're just having fun and making hella grooves on the spot.

That still doesn't make them his ideas. If you write a book and quote someone else's work, there better be some footnotes.

From Barts et al. perpsective, Prince can't even play piano and his success was just a fluke.

BartVanHemelen said:

stillwaiting said:

Sure, many will think I'm crazy, but other than the nice output by W&L, which is nice, nearly everything else the supporting cast did after leaving Prince was not actually million selling stuff. (Not counting Jam & Lewis, who would not have been huge as solo artists.)

Perhaps they used up most of their ideas during their work with Prince?

Doesn't that go both ways? Perhaps Prince used up most of his good ideas working with the Revolution.

I don't think either is the case, but, I'll take Prince as a musician, writer, performer & producer over the individual members of the Revolution any day.

djThunderfunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Perhaps they used up most of their ideas during their work with Prince?

Doesn't that go both ways? Perhaps Prince used up most of his good ideas working with the Revolution.

Nope because he came out with SOTT, the much heralded Lovesexy, praised Gold era releases and he also had some good ideas on his own with DM, self titled, Controversy and that one album about a year...1999 yeah thats the one.

rdhull said:

djThunderfunk said:

Doesn't that go both ways? Perhaps Prince used up most of his good ideas working with the Revolution.

Nope because he came out with SOTT, the much heralded Lovesexy, praised Gold era releases and he also had some good ideas on his own with DM, self titled, Controversy and that one album about a year...1999 yeah thats the one.

You must have noticed (since you edited it out) that I did say I didn't think it was so.

I was just pointing out a flaw in Bart's argument.

IMO, Prince still has great music in him... and some that's less so.

djThunderfunk said:

rdhull said:

Nope because he came out with SOTT, the much heralded Lovesexy, praised Gold era releases and he also had some good ideas on his own with DM, self titled, Controversy and that one album about a year...1999 yeah thats the one.

You must have noticed (since you edited it out) that I did say I didn't think it was so.

I was just pointing out a flaw in Bart's argument.

IMO, Prince still has great music in him... and some that's less so.

My mistake. I latched onto that one statement ..sorry lol.

BartVanHemelen said:

Replica said:

That is one of Prince qualities. His way of understanding how some licks in the jam session fit into a song. A composer and producer that is able to see the bigger picture in music will be able to do so, but many musicians just do some cool stuff here and there, and doesn't know what to make out of it. They're just having fun and making hella grooves on the spot.

That still doesn't make them his ideas. If you write a book and quote someone else's work, there better be some footnotes.

I think it makes more sense to compare Prince using licks he has heard other people play with a novelist who uses phrases he has heard other people say. You don't usually see footnotes in novels.

rdhull said:

djThunderfunk said:

You must have noticed (since you edited it out) that I did say I didn't think it was so.

I was just pointing out a flaw in Bart's argument.

IMO, Prince still has great music in him... and some that's less so.

My mistake. I latched onto that one statement ..sorry lol.

No prob.

dawnboy999 said:

I read the interview with Jimmy Jam. He claimed he wrote My Summertime thing and wanted it back for the Pandemonium album.So whats the real scoop on the real penmanship of these songs. 1.The latest fashion.2. Kiss.3.Party up.4.That Stevie Nicks song(can't remember the title.5.Somebodys somebody6.Hide the bone.7.Do me baby. Or any other songs that have controversial writing claims.

1. It seems you may have misread. Jam was stating he wanted "My Summertime Thang" (by P) in it's original form, not the rewritten "Latest Fashion" mess they were made to settle for. By Jam saying "that was our song from back in the day", he was only stating how much they enjoyed it when they first heard it.

4. via wiki: Nicks has often told the story of how she wrote the song. She wrote it shortly after she was married to Kim Anderson. The newlyweds were driving up to San Ysidro Ranch in Santa Barbara when Prince's song "Little Red Corvette" came on the radio. Nicks started humming along to the melody, especially inspired by the lush synthesizers of the song, and "Stand Back" was born. They stopped and got a tape recorder and she recorded the demo in the honeymoon suite that night. Later, when Nicks went into the studio to record the song, she called Prince and told him the story of how she wrote the song to his melody. He came to the studio that night and played synthesizers on it, although his contribution is uncredited on the album. Then, she says, "he just got up and left as if the whole thing happened in a dream."^[1] Prince is occasionally listed as the song's co-writer, especially on mainland European releases.

dawnboy999 said:

I read the interview with Jimmy Jam. He claimed he wrote My Summertime thing and wanted it back for the Pandemonium album.So whats the real scoop on the real penmanship of these songs. 1.The latest fashion.2. Kiss.3.Party up.4.That Stevie Nicks song(can't remember the title.5.Somebodys somebody6.Hide the bone.7.Do me baby. Or any other songs that have controversial writing claims.

You will find reliable answers to all your questions on www.princevault.com and yeah, you misread, Jam never claimed he wrote MST.

rdhull said:

djThunderfunk said:

Doesn't that go both ways? Perhaps Prince used up most of his good ideas working with the Revolution.

Nope because he came out with SOTT, the much heralded Lovesexy, praised Gold era releases and he also had some good ideas on his own with DM, self titled, Controversy and that one album about a year...1999 yeah thats the one.

SOTT is a strong Revolution era album just with the Revolution behind him live, outside of Dr Fink Eric & Atlanta

ROck Hard in a Funky Place, Eye No is Ball from the Dream Factory session

OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

Nope because he came out with SOTT, the much heralded Lovesexy, praised Gold era releases and he also had some good ideas on his own with DM, self titled, Controversy and that one album about a year...1999 yeah thats the one.

SOTT is a strong Revolution era album just with the Revolution behind him live, outside of Dr Fink Eric & Atlanta

ROck Hard in a Funky Place, Eye No is Ball from the Dream Factory session

Being fomr that era is different fomr the Revolution being the actual writers. SOTT had their work erased. hence, we have a big ol faction adoring the DF-1986, CB-1986 versions of songs etc

rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

SOTT is a strong Revolution era album just with the Revolution behind him live, outside of Dr Fink Eric & Atlanta

ROck Hard in a Funky Place, Eye No is Ball from the Dream Factory session

Being fomr that era is different fomr the Revolution being the actual writers. SOTT had their work erased. hence, we have a big ol faction adoring the DF-1986, CB-1986 versions of songs etc

The conv turned from who wrote to who contribute who took part in who co wrote etc

certain songs remained the same as the dream factory cuts SOTT the Ballad of Dorothy Parker, Starfish & Coffee(co-writer Susannah Melvoin) It Forever In My Life the Cross & I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man

Wendy & Lisa are still on Strange Relationships, they are also on Slow Love and the Revolution fully is on of course It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night co-written with Dr Fink

Susannah Melvoin is back up lead on Play In the Sunshine as well as Rock Hard In a Funky Place