. A certain "shut up and just entertain us" attitude is apparent with some of u.

doesn't anyone have an opinion?

I consider Prince a "serious" artist just like Joni, Hendrix, Dylan u name the legend. I would never want him to censor himself to please fans

On a more positive note, Avalanche shows that he can be socio-political without being cryptic and it was a major step in the right direction with a thought provoking song.

In terms of Prince's more recent music, I think you're missing the point. It's not the political/social/"moral" content most people object to, its the songs themselves. Most of them just SUCK. I mean, back in the 80s he had plenty of great tracks that spouted POVs: Party Up, Sexuality, Controversy, Annie Christian, All the Critics Love You in NY, Sign O the Times, Dance On... Lately (since Graffiti Bridge at least) his POV songs are just so much new age, pretentious, square, forced, played-out, self-righteous, JW-brainwashed, Michael Jackson-esqe, musically boring, overdone, sheltered, throw-away spew!

Back when Prince was the emerging, struggling artist he took some pretty big chances which established himself as a unique artist, as "Prince!"

Now he lives comfortably in his little closed-in, millionaire, Paisley Park world... his inflated head gets in the way of his original, creative, "fuck you"-ishness and instead we get this insular, delusional, cultish pap!

DrEverythingWillBeAlright said:

If u havn't liked the music since GB then why are u even here commenting. I understand your point about his change in sound, but every body changes with time and age. I sure am not same man at 40 that i was at 20. And there is nothing Michael Jackson-esqe about his music.

No one seems to want to directly address the examples i gave.

tricky99 said:

Nobody said anything about censoring..I just dont want to really hear about his politics or anyone one else in music in general. Thats not what I got into them for (unles its a Dylan , PE etc in which the music was presented upfront as politicAL ETC) Now the politics of the person and their music..well that's a different story.

tricky99 said:

For the most part,I haven't liked anything since GB either,but I am here commenting.

tricky99 said:

actually i did address this U did not read..
WE WERE TOLD POINT FUCKING BLANK THAT WE WERE WRONG IN OUR RELIGIOUS PURSUITS AND THAT THE ONLY TRUTH WAS THAT OF THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION...do u get it?

It seems to me there is certain group of prince fans who really seem to have a problem with him expressing A viewpoint on anything that has a moral dimension to it. They seem quite put off that their hero may not have the
same philosophy as they do. A certain "shut up and just entertain us" attitude is apparent with some of u. I've also seen this attitude expressed in a number of reviews of his recent work. A certain condescending attitude
that seems to imply that Prince is stepping outside of his place. People of color here in the US know what I mean by that. Voicing an opinion labeled u as an "uppity nigger" and could lead to all manner of abuse from the white
majority.

Certain of Prince's songs have to my mind been vilified out of all proportion to whether they are musically compelling or not. Songs I'm thinking about deal with politics, veganism, race, and religion. Some people hate to be challenged on their ideas and react very negatively when certain buttons are pushed.

Take for instance the song "Animal Kingdom". Many here seem to hate it with a passion for beyond most other similar sounding songs of his. I've heard many talk about how dreadful and stupid it is. I personally quite enjoy the
song both musically and lyrically. I am not a vegan and will tear a steak up in a minute. However I am able to appreciate Prince's point of view on using animals for food. The metaphors Prince uses in the song are no more strained than the average Prince lyric. I can only come to the conclusion that a lot of folks feel uncomfortable with the moral issue that Prince implies. No where in the song does he try to convert anyone, he simply states why he
doesn't eat animal products. There is nothing illogical about the statements he makes in the song. His points are valid even if I don't personally wish to change my eating habits.

Other cases of this over critical judgment include Avalanche, TRC, Ronnie talk to Russia, and America. It seems that if Prince's views don't match yours he is either "stupid" or "trying to push his beliefs down your throat". Well I'm glad that Prince is both entertaining and thoughtful. I look forward to more "button pushing" as he continues to mature.

rdhull said:

You not wanting to hear it is your limitation, not the artist. Do u like any intellectual art? Or do u just like shallow novels, and stupid action flicks?

doesn't anyone have an opinion?

tricky99 said:

So basically, that's a very long (and I'll add, very well thought-out) way of saying: Ignore the message unless you, yourself, happen to be passionate about it. Respect Prince's right to an opinion, and enjoy the music, provided, or course, you still like the music. If you fall into none of these categories, you're probably not reading this. On the other hand, on the org., you never know!

I agree with you, Tricky. As I said in another thread, Prince is a human being. Not a superman, just a man. He has his own sense of values, and I have mine. They have nothing to do with one another unless I choose to draw parallels, compare or contrast them. I don't choose to, therefore, I've found little that offends me, besides a bad track here or there.

In any case, I don't not fear Prince's recent "conversion". I did not fear his musical allusion to incest either, so apparently not much has changed in 23 years. Still, I do see that most people's attention spans are not what they used to be, and they have difficulty separating Prince, the entertainer, from Prince, the man. As a result, debates like this rage on. People, in general, are insecure about their own beliefs and opinions, and tend to become very defensive when those insecurities are highlighted by someone whose opinion differs from their own.

Bear in mind, in this case, I'm referring only to those who continue to assert that Prince has lost "it" directly because of some recent personal alterations to his system of beliefs. These people have probably never even met Prince, let alone know him well enough to make such an assertion. If he's "lost it", that is, lost whatever elements attracted you personally to his work before "he fell off", he sure as hell didn't lose it because he "changed gods", or "stopped eating eat", or "stopped swearing", or "adopted Larry Graham". If something, in your eyes, is missing from the musical equation, you should be able to identify it as something musical. If you can't, then the problem is yours, not Prince's. Just my opinion, though!

Yet many fans feel the need to claim ownership of him simply because they like "the old stuff". I like "the old stuff" too, as well as the new. And I'll quit when he stops entertaining me, and for no other reason than "I'm bored". Not because of his relationship with Larry Graham, Mayte, God...or anything/one else that has nothing to do with music. I will admit to feeling uneasy about his legal pursuits against fans who, he alledges, "steal his work." But even that won't stop me from enjoying that "work", because after all, that' why we're all here, isn't it?

-SWANGdidn'tmeantowritethismuch
[This message was edited Wed Feb 26 20:06:08 PST 2003 by SWANG]
[This message was edited Wed Feb 26 20:10:04 PST 2003 by SWANG]

tricky99 said:

Poseur!!! thats a poseurs rebuttal! textbook.

Prince used to be mysterious, and his message seemed to transcend all boundaries of ideology. He lost that. That's all.

tricky i cried literally when i heard TRC...
i love the music - but the reality of his move into JW hurt like a MUTHA...and thats my opinion

unfortunately if u missed the debacle of the FIRST listening session in 2001, u cannot understand the negativity Chris left us with.

i actually sought a second listening to the album while i was at the celly and that was just a bunch of people hoping prince would come in and listen to how they praised him and this album and were beseeching how they could become witness's...

i have no problem with prince moving on and broadening his horizons as it were, however, when ur frontmen are clearly not up to par and have no speaking or comprehensive skills of the material they are sprouting and telling us why THE TRUTH is the way and the way is JEHOVAH (witness, that is).

no one (at PP) wanted to hear a rebuttal or dared to broach and indepth conducive debate (as conversations limit ones ideas).

so the theory of he can just entertain us his views are of no consequence (after many months of battle) became the standpoint...

ScarLett said:

co-sign. TRC was the first time prince's new music brought tears to my eyes in a bad way. and, since then, he has moved deeper into the JW religion to the point where, at last year's celebration, he was preaching the 'theocratic order' to a very UNENTHUSIASTIC audience from the stage

yes he's always preached religion, but since he became a JW his stance is one of EXCLUDING those who do not follow his faith

it is an insult to fans when he stands onstage and tells us there is ONE TRUTH, that this truth is Jehovah's truth, and that we are wrong for not following the JW way.

If u havn't liked the music since GB then why are u even here commenting.

Prince used to be mysterious, and his message seemed to transcend all boundaries of ideology. He lost that. That's all.

there's nothing Michael Jackson-esqe about his music

No one seems to want to directly address the examples i gave.