RodeoSchro said:

RodeoSchro,

If this thread is moderated appropriately i.e. by someone like langebleu, it is possible for a wide variety of what may be traditionally thought of as difficult topics to be discussed openly, in an educated, non-combative fashion, irrespective of what will undoubtedly spark different viewpoints and value systems.

It can be done, if .Orgers can hold onto their wits.

love,

Spirit

OzlemUcucu said:

A lot of people won't admit that it would affect them, but I think it would. As for me, I KNOW it would change the whole meaning of his songs, as it did with George Michael for me. I don't listen to his songs anymore, and it has more to do with how and why he is showcasing his homosexuality than his songs. So, he put me off for forever. It may sound weird, but when I had found out Wendy and Lisa being lesbian, I simply couldn't listen to them anymore, tho I never liked their musical output anyway. Having said that, I do sometimes think Prince could be gay for a fact, but I am undecided. Whatever he prefers, I appreciate he keeps it for himself, as this is nobodys business.

[Edited 3/19/12 11:10am]

My sister stopped following George Michael when she found out he was gay, but not not because of prejudice, but because she was in love with him and much of her love was based on this feeling that the love could be reciprocated.

She stilll likes the old Wham music, so that does not change, but she says she largely lost interest in him as a person, other than the nostalgic curiousity about people from our childhood.

I don't give a shit if Prince is gay. In fact he is "gayer" than most homosexuals (note the quotes indicating my use of stereotyping). It is gross and over the top. I have tolerated his ridiculousness, laughed at it, all the while loving his music. I like him despite his persona, not because of it.

OzlemUcucu said:

Yes, I can tell you why it affected me, cause I usually pay attention to lyrics and they mean a lot to me.

Over the years I came to realise there is a certain pattern that I prefer. When I listen to women, it happens to have same theme in form of vocal expression, tune or lyric. It's the same with men. Generally, I don't prefer women singing love songs about women, and hardly even about men.

George Michael is screamin his love for another man, which is great but not that I can relate to. This usually wouldn't be a big issue if he wouldn't be publicly displaying his sexual preferences to extreme measure. I have no problem if they keep their preferences for themselves, but songs and identity of the performer is something that is important to my listening ear.

Wendy and Lisa have always came across as very extreme to me as well. However, as I said I don't like their musical output anyway.

SpiritOtter said:

OzlemUcucu

OzlemUcucu,

Whilst I do not know you, I appreciate your honesty as well as your clear manners in expressing a controversial viewpoint.

I must admit, I am surprised that Wendy and Lisa's sexuality affected you to the extent that you could not listen to their music? What was so difficult for you, if you don't mind me asking?

Naturally, please do not respond if you do not wish to, as that is a personal question; I would understand not wishing to respond to it, as Prince.org unfortunately houses many individuals who spit spite in abundance, often in an highly uneducated manner. It is unfortunate, but I say all of this only to suggest that you protect yourself, if you feel unsure regarding your response i.e. don't respond to me, at least in public.

Also, I am surprised by anyone who could, after knowing the man's musical and personal career history, conclude he is anything other than addicted to the love of highly physically attractive women (in the majority, though, of the white/light persuasion, even though there clearly have been a few exceptions).

Prince is NOT a gay black man.

love,

Spirit

OzlemUcucu,

I appreciate you articulating your personal preferences. I'd like to take a little while to reflect on what you say, if you don't mind. But I shall respond, as your response intrigues me. I particularly appreciate your honesty, although I am already aware it may spark accusations of -isms toward you.

Still, I wish you heaven.

love,

Spirit

Spinlight said:

Gotta love latent homophobia.

Indeed, Sad iisn't it!

SpiritOtter said:

I must admit, I am surprised that Wendy and Lisa's sexuality affected you to the extent that you could not listen to their music? What was so difficult for you, if you don't mind me asking?

Spirit

Did I repond to this? I just didn't and don't like their music. It's been obviously a very long time ago, but their whole package didn't appeal to me back then. I can't remember if I was putt of by their music or their sexual preferences to be honest, it's been a very long time ago that I had made my decision .

OzlemUcucu said:

Spinlight said:

Gotta love latent homophobia.

Well, as for performing artists maybe so. In real life possibly no.

Yeah, like how people are musically racist? Please. There's no explaining necessary.

The whole concept of "keep it to themselves" is abhorrant. Keep YOUR preference to yourself. In fact, I wish all hetero people would practice what they preach. YOU hide yourself away. Do it. Please.

80spfantwp said:

That's a shame that a person's sexuality is able to change your appreciation of their artistry

oh well

SpiritOtter said:

it would almost definitely and irrevocably alter my view of the music

80spfantwp,

Of course, it would. Just like if I found out that Prince was not black, but actually a white man. It would almost definitely and irrevocably alter my view of the music.

Family Name, sung by a white man?

Hello NO.

love,

Spirit

SpiritOtter said:

80spfantwp said:

That's a shame that a person's sexuality is able to change your appreciation of their artistry

oh well

80spfantwp,

Of course, it would. Just like if I found out that Prince was not black, but actually a white man. It would almost definitely and irrevocably alter my view of the music.

Family Name, sung by a white man?

Hello NO.

love,

Spirit

Yeah, racism only involves 1 race. Black Americans, which aren't even their own race, but cool.

And nobody else should ever speak a word about it.

Spinlight said:

OzlemUcucu said:

Well, as for performing artists maybe so. In real life possibly no.

Yeah, like how people are musically racist? Please. There's no explaining necessary.

The whole concept of "keep it to themselves" is abhorrant. Keep YOUR preference to yourself. In fact, I wish all hetero people would practice what they preach. YOU hide yourself away. Do it. Please.

Hey, I don't give a shit about what U think. If u can't accept people's opinion, please don't respond. You are steering this way off topic now and this ihas nothing to with any of us individually whether you are bi/homo or virgin, we are talking about Prince here.

OzlemUcucu said:

Spinlight said:

Yeah, like how people are musically racist? Please. There's no explaining necessary.

The whole concept of "keep it to themselves" is abhorrant. Keep YOUR preference to yourself. In fact, I wish all hetero people would practice what they preach. YOU hide yourself away. Do it. Please.

Hey, I don't give a shit about what U think. If u can't accept people's opinion, please don't respond. You are steering this way off topic now and this ihas nothing to with any of us individually whether you are bi/homo or virgin, we are talking about Prince here.

You should've possessed the forethought to not say something so fucking asinine.

[Edited 3/19/12 11:45am]

Yeah but George is not Prince, so I am not sure if people would stop following him, possibly not, cause he is kinda gay, anyway!

I'd more worried about the context of his songs in my world that is...

NDRU said:

OzlemUcucu said:

A lot of people won't admit that it would affect them, but I think it would. As for me, I KNOW it would change the whole meaning of his songs, as it did with George Michael for me. I don't listen to his songs anymore, and it has more to do with how and why he is showcasing his homosexuality than his songs. So, he put me off for forever. It may sound weird, but when I had found out Wendy and Lisa being lesbian, I simply couldn't listen to them anymore, tho I never liked their musical output anyway. Having said that, I do sometimes think Prince could be gay for a fact, but I am undecided. Whatever he prefers, I appreciate he keeps it for himself, as this is nobodys business.

[Edited 3/19/12 11:10am]

My sister stopped following George Michael when she found out he was gay, but not not because of prejudice, but because she was in love with him and much of her love was based on this feeling that the love could be reciprocated.

She stilll likes the old Wham music, so that does not change, but she says she largely lost interest in him as a person, other than the nostalgic curiousity about people from our childhood.

I don't give a shit if Prince is gay. In fact he is "gayer" than most homosexuals (note the quotes indicating my use of stereotyping). It is gross and over the top. I have tolerated his ridiculousness, laughed at it, all the while loving his music. I like him despite his persona, not because of it.

Spinlight said:

SpiritOtter said:

80spfantwp,

Of course, it would. Just like if I found out that Prince was not black, but actually a white man. It would almost definitely and irrevocably alter my view of the music.

Family Name, sung by a white man?

Hello NO.

love,

Spirit

Yeah, racism only involves 1 race. Black Americans, which aren't even their own race, but cool.

And nobody else should ever speak a word about it.

Spinlight,

I believe you may be reading more into what I have said, but cool. Who said racism only involves one race? I certainly did not, if you read what I said carefully.

Perhaps, you should consider taking a break from the thread, lest you misinterpret me/others further?

Regardless of what you might believe, surely everyone is prejudiced about something, even you? Education regarding diversity is key; however, differences are fine, so long as they are conducted in a respectful way.

Thus far, I have respected you.

love,

Spirit

SpiritOtter said:

Spinlight said:

Yeah, racism only involves 1 race. Black Americans, which aren't even their own race, but cool.

And nobody else should ever speak a word about it.

Spinlight,

I believe you may be reading more into what I have said, but cool. Who said racism only involves one race? I certainly did not, if you read what I said carefully.

Perhaps, you should consider taking a break from the thread, lest you misinterpret me/others further?

Regardless of what you might believe, surely everyone is prejudiced about something, even you? Education regarding diversity is key; however, differences are fine, so long as they are conducted in a respectful way.

Thus far, I have respected you.

love,

Spirit

I don't feel there's misinterpretation at all. Rather, people have said some ignorant crap in this thread and it goes way under the radar for most because it's gay people being talked about and not some other minority.

It's very clear when someone says gays should keep their preferences to themselves. In a world of heteronormacy, I disagree that it's okay to say such a thing. I disagree if a white person would say a black person should hide themselves away or not talk about their blackness. I disagree when someone says a white person couldn't sing a song like "Family Name" and stand up against racist oppression.

When someone says they don't like something anymore because someone is gay and its their preferences that changed things, it's not a misinterpretation on the other person's part. Either handle those caustic opinions with kid gloves or don't bother spewing them because there's always going to be someone there to check you.

Furthermore, Prince sings songs about eating pussy nonstop and you don't hear any gay people saying "I sure do wish I didn't hear him sucking on a clit during 'Come'.."

Spinlight,

You are making some good points (even if I still believe you are making some misinterpretations).

However, I do ask that you, AND others, try not to enflame this thread. It will be nigh-on-impossible, I imagine, if this thread doesn't get locked, though, which is a shame.

love,

Spirit

gossipgirl said:

It would never affect me listening to his music, I couldn't just ignore the songs I fell in love with. However it would leave me a bit disappointed as I wouldn't be able to fantasise about prince anymore..

And does that make gossipgirl prejudiced against gay people, if she was disappointed?

I personally don't believe so; it just would mean her fantasy regarding Prince turning her out was darted.

love,

Spirit

Spinlight said:

, Prince sings songs about eating pussy nonstop and you don't hear any gay people saying "I sure do wish I didn't hear him sucking on a clit during 'Come'.."

U seem to be my kinda dude.... this comment gives another edge to that song. I love this shit!

[Edited 3/19/12 12:08pm]

SpiritOtter said:

Spinlight,

You are making some good points (even if I still believe you are making some misinterpretations).

However, I do ask that you, AND others, try not to enflame this thread. It will be nigh-on-impossible, I imagine, if this thread doesn't get locked, though, which is a shame.

love,

Spirit

If this thread had skewed more towards his race, you don't think people would comment on that? Have you never seen the fiery debates about Prince hiding his blackness in the 80s and what some people interpret as the true reason for "The NPG"?

I can tell you those threads are worse than anything I've said so far.

TO address your original post:

You are right, it is patently clear he is not a gay white man. He is indeed a straight black man.

It is possible he has had gay sex. If you believe many stories told in the Minneapolis area, you certainly believe he has.

I don't buy that gay sex ostensibly "repulses" him. If that were the case, he would not continue working with so many gay people. His religion is still a very prominent aspect of his music and with "Big Brother" always watching, he has yet to say anything not drenched in pious machismo.

Spinlight,

I respect the intelligence you are bringing to this thread; I request, however, that you don't rise to the trolls. You've brought more than most already to this discussion; the cream always rises to the top. Thank you.

If you wish to expand on The NPG theory or the many stories told in the Minneapolis area, you allude to, I would welcome it.

love,

Spirit

thedance said:

Oh dear, noone in their right mind believes Prince is gay.

Only the ignorrants, who don't like his music, those non-fans... trying to put him down.

the fans who knows about Prince knows he is 100% straight, always was and always will be.

I agree with this statement.

However, I find it strange that people "try to put someone down" by calling them gay. In my opinionn, to be called gay would be a compliment. I'm not gay, but I would find it to be a compliment, not a put down.

If someone called me straight, that would be kind of insulting. Might as well call me an old timer. It's hip to be gay.

[Edited 3/19/12 12:26pm]

OzlemUcucu said:

A lot of people won't admit that it would affect them, but I think it would. As for me, I KNOW it would change the whole meaning of his songs, as it did with George Michael for me. I don't listen to his songs anymore, and it has more to do with how and why he is showcasing his homosexuality than his songs. So, he put me off for forever. It may sound weird, but when I had found out Wendy and Lisa being lesbian, I simply couldn't listen to them anymore, tho I never liked their musical output anyway. Having said that, I do sometimes think Prince could be gay for a fact, but I am undecided. Whatever he prefers, I appreciate he keeps it for himself, as this is nobodys business

*rips posters off wall and sobs into a hugged pillow*

[Edited 3/19/12 12:21pm]

"I'm not a woman, I'm not a man"

-Prince

"Prince is a lesbian trapped in a man's body"

-me (and many others, i would imagine!)

Can/could/will Prince write, arrange, produce, perform music that will make you think about this sexual side or that?

Yup.

So what's changed then, SpiritOtterPrevoker?

Prost!

NouveauDance said:

OzlemUcucu said:

A lot of people won't admit that it would affect them, but I think it would. As for me, I KNOW it would change the whole meaning of his songs, as it did with George Michael for me. I don't listen to his songs anymore, and it has more to do with how and why he is showcasing his homosexuality than his songs. So, he put me off for forever. It may sound weird, but when I had found out Wendy and Lisa being lesbian, I simply couldn't listen to them anymore, tho I never liked their musical output anyway. Having said that, I do sometimes think Prince could be gay for a fact, but I am undecided. Whatever he prefers, I appreciate he keeps it for himself, as this is nobodys business

*rips posters off wall and sobs into a hugged pillow*

[img:$uid]http://blog.zap2it.com/thedishrag/legacyimages/thedishrag/images/2008/11/24/34346181.jpg[/img:$uid]

scatwoman,

As I said, Prince is NOT a gay black man.

love,

Spirit

nayroo2002 said:

"I'm not a woman, I'm not a man"

-Prince

"Prince is a lesbian trapped in a man's body"

-me (and many others, i would imagine!)

Can/could/will Prince write, arrange, produce, perform music that will make you think about this sexual side or that?

Yup.

So what's changed then, SpiritOtterPrevoker?

Prost!

[img:$uid]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/BECKY2004/p3-3.jpg[/img:$uid]

Hear we go again!

If he was,it wouldn't change a damn thing....I still be crazy about him

SpiritOtter said:

Spinlight,

I respect the intelligence you are bringing to this thread; I request, however, that you don't rise to the trolls. You've brought more than most already to this discussion; the cream always rises to the top. Thank you.

If you wish to expand on The NPG theory or the many stories told in the Minneapolis area, you allude to, I would welcome it.

love,

Spirit

Many people hold the theory that the NPG's purpose was to blacken and toughen his image. Prince has always had white people in the audience (recall the Dirty Mind videos where one really "into it" white blonde is in the front row shaking her... things), but when he changed his sound (more pop/rock) and image (most of the band is white with prominent female members), he gained "the rest" of the white audience and they drowned out his black following.

After "Raspberry Beret" and "Pop Life" (2 majorly white-sounding songs, pop/rock formula borrowing from "Let's Go Crazy" and "Take Me With U" thematically if not in sound) and the brief ATWIAD era, you see him injecting more color into his band with Miko, Sheila, and the bodyguards as well as Jerome, etc. It was by this time his black following had largely criticized his white-affectation.

With the NPG, he gradually made his band more "colorful" with Cat, Boni, and eventually Michael B, Sonny, et al. Along with this came his hip hop noodling (leading into full on hip hop tracks on Diamonds and Pearls and every album thereafter). It's interesting to note that even when Prince acquiesced to people wanting his "whiter" sound back, he incorporated rap songs anyway. Check The Gold Experience and Chaos & Disorder where "Now" and "I Rock Therefore I Am" sound way out of place.

Obviously now his band is just about 100% black and he incorporates almost nothing but R&B/Soul and hiphop in his music. His sales are down about a jillion percent since 1984 for what its worth (don't take this as a sign I care about his sales - I don't, just noting it for posterity).

I don't necessarily agree with a lot of the anecdotal/speculative stuff, but I do witness people holding said opinions so that's why I'm saying it. I don't want anyone misinterpreting my comments in a way that suggests I agree he is bitter towards white people.

There's a lot of lore in the MPLS area that Prince has engaged in gay sex. It's hard to explain. Others have lived in the MPLS area longer than I did and can explain it better. I once spent several hours in the NPG store in MPLS and an old dude told me about how back in the day before Prince became famous and was touring in a van with his band Champagne, he was caught in a van with a dude. Again, it's silly local folklore, but it's definitely talked about.

Sorry for the longwinded post.

[Edited 3/19/12 12:44pm]

All I know is I wouldn't put my signature to anything claiming what I know about his personal life. I'll just take his word for it and leave it at that. I've had various opinions about his sexuality throughout the years some of them may have been wrong but I've still loved him, that's all I know.